In a message dated 9/12/2011 8:47:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time, bernardmorgan@hotmail.com writes: So Dal Cuinn ancestor is the unknown "second Mil Espaine" and battle the Cruthin a seperate people in the north of Ireland. Now we known the descendants for Dal Cuinn are M222+ (i..e Northern Ui Neill, Southern Ui Neill and Connachta in general) then are the Dál Fíachach, who lived in the kingdom of Éle, a NON-Éoganacht kingdom in northern Munster (per the old-Irish-l archives) also M222+? O'Rahilly said the first MIl Espaine was the ancestor of the Eoghanachta. It's difficult to follow the text but the name tEugan Táidlech appears in both the origins legends of the Eoghanachta and the Dal Cuinn. As far as I can determine, this is another name for Eoghan Mor, the eponymous ancestor of the Eoghanachta. See the "Fitness of Names." The name is translated "Shining Eogan" in the version I found. And the text says that some say he was one of the mariners left in the land of the Amazons from which the Milesians originated. That's strange too but it's probably a reference to Scythia. At least one group of Amazons were said to live on the shores of the Black Sea near Thrace and north of Turkey in what was then called Scythia. The material you found though says Eoghan Taidlech or his sons led the Eoghanachta to Ireland. All this talk of Milesians in these origin stories seems to have nothing to do with the more familiar Heber and Heremon scheme. All I can think is the scribes were aware of the Milesian legends yet as O'Rahilly theorized, were also aware of more authentic origin legends. In my post I mis-typed Dal Fiatach for Dal Fiachach. That's what the text says. Which Dal Fiachach could be referred to? The Dal Fiachach mac Neill or a different group? It's interesting that most of the DNA I've found for the southern Ui Neill are for the Dal Fiachach (O'Mulloy, Goeghegan I don't know why either Dal Fiachach trive would be named. Why would they single out the Ui Fiachrach of Eile as sharing a descent with the Dal Cuinn? Another possibility might be this usage of Dal Fiachach is archaic. The father of Tuathal Teachtmar in the pedigrees is called Fiachach. Could that be a reference to a tribe descended from him?. If so the tribal name is non standard. I don't think I've ever seen it applied to the Dal Cuinn. 47. Cenél Cuinn gave battle, they broke upon them in a ship. For sovereignty had belonged to the Cruithni, and the final invasion fell to it [i.e. to Cenél Cuinn] on that northern shore (northern side?). This line seems to say the final invasion of Ireland (ie the Dal Cuinn) came on the northern side of Ireland. John