In a message dated 9/26/2011 11:06:33 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com writes: Dunbars and Robinsons? Sure, I'll have a look, but which Robinsons? (you said "some of the Robinsons"). There's a cluster of Robinsons who match the DNA of line of the Robertsons of Struan. Three in the line of the chieftains have been tested. 100011 168022 132773 96449 31658 73366 167928 31363 51209 26578 The first Duncan from whom the clan is named lived about 1300 AD. So the surname could not have existed before that. I saw references from 1391 that talked about Duncansons (Wyntoun's history) - the Robertson surname was adopted sometime in 1400s by the chiefly line. Some also took the name Reid later -not sure exactly when. Someone else may have the exact dates. Supposedly these are descendents of Crinan, Ahbot of Dunkeld, d. 1045. The Dunbars also claim some kind of descent from Crinan, but I have no idea what. Some son of Crinan, I think. When comparing the chieftain Robertsons to the Duncans and McConaghys, a name said to derive from the Clan Donnachaidh, I wondered if the data really supported a descent from a common ancestor ca. 1300-1400 AD. Also the Reids. The Dunbars are extremely distant from any other sample in the project. I have this data in a spreadsheet if anyone would like a copy. As yet I have no firm opinions on the DNA myself. The main Duncan/McConaghy cluster is tightly related with about 5-6 off modal markers. One of these is also found in the Robertson chieftains. John