How does this effect the Dunbar's who trace thier linage back to Crinan TheThane and are having several M222 show up? -----Original Message----- From: Robert Reid <rreid002@insight.rr.com> To: dna-r1b1c7 <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 22, 2011 8:55 pm Subject: [R-M222] Crinan ancestry is subject to debate I have included the following to show that once established lines (many in Burkes Peerage) are wrong back to Crinan the Thane. Ian Kennedy has mentioned Gordon MacGregor who is an excellent researcher. There is much debate with many question marks. Thus M222 direct lineage is hard to prove. I have found that approximately 85% of Clan Donnachaidh is non M222. Many are Picts who were assimulated into the clan from the Perth surroundings and I1 varieties with Norse ancestry. All that can be really said is that the Earls of Atholl were collectively from the 'kindred of Columba' as cited by Moncreiffe and Skeene. In 2006, genealogy researcher Gordon MacGregor was asked to take a look at the origins of the clan and his examination of previously unconsidered charters turned up the vital evidence which he reported in the 2007 Clan Donnachaidh Annual. He discovered that the lands of Struan, the Clan Donnachaidh chiefs' lands and barony in Atholl, had originally been carved out of the earldom of Atholl and bundled with the Lude estate as Clunes. And that these lands could only descend in the male line. The likely line of ancestral ownership, for good if complex reasons, went Duncan - Andrew - Madach of Clunes - Duncan - Malcolm, 2nd Earl of Atholl. Andrew de Atholia, of Glenerocie, is the first verified male ancestor of the Clan Donnachaidh who is styled as father to Duncan de Atholia, in documents in the first half of the 14th century. Tradition states that he m. the daughter and heiress of Angus de Glenerochie and whom he acquired these lands although this is not the case given that the destination of these particular lands was to the heir-male exclusively therefore confirming a male descent from the Earls of Atholl. He was the father of Duncan de Atholia, 5th of Glenerochie. Duncan had charters for the land of Discher and Toyler from Duncan, Earl of Fife, in around 1343 AD and the lands of Appin of Dull from John, Bishop of Dunkeld, in Dec 1355 AD and in both of which he is styled as son of Andrew de Atholia. He succeeded to the lands of Glenerochie and was an adherent of King Robert I with whom he fought at the battle of Bannockburn in Jun 1314 AD. He is said to have m. firstly to a daughter of Malcolm, 5th Earl of Lenox, with who he acquired lands in Rannoch and Fortingal, and secondly to a daughter of the Lord of the Isles. He is thought to have d. between 1355 - 1357 AD and was the father of Patrick Duncanson, 1st of Lude. R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message