Chris, As Susan was saying, we may never know. We could make educated guesses, based on facts, but we may never know. Like you, at Family Tree I am genetically related to several ancient Irish families known to have lived in northern Ulster, which also is where the O'Muirgheasain name comes from. Then again, I also have genetic relationships with numerous Connacht families, apparently because the Niall name originally came from the Connacht region before their becoming kings of Ulster. So goes my education, but I likely will never know. Doug On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 7:37 PM, <cjl315@comcast.net> wrote: > > > Doug, > > > > I noticed some O'Morrison's in the 1609 Pardon lists from the rebellions in Ulster and thought of you and your quest to learn about Irish O'Morrisons. I also found my own surname (Lane) in there as well. It was listed mostly as "O'Lane. (maybe from O'Luain?)" > >   http://www.ulsterancestry.com/ua-free-State_Papers_1601.html > What surprised me is when I looked at the surnames in that list I found that I have many fairly close M-222 matches with the those surnames, such as Gallagher, Dogherty, McLaughline, and O'Neill..It certainly makes me believe my Lane's were from that part of Northern Ireland as well before coming to Virginia in the 1750's. They must have converted to the Presbyterian faith sometime in the 1600's while in Ulster. I've found another Lane in lives Belfast who has taken the DNA test through FTDNA. I'm hoping that his results are M-222 as well. > > > > Chris > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "tuulen" <tuulen@gmail.com> > To: chantillycarpets@earthlink.net, dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 6:02:28 AM > Subject: Re: [R-M222] new thread Clans & membeship > > Susan, > > "All members of any Scottish clan will not be related genetically." > > I had to laugh when I read that, for that fits my situation exactly. > Although I can trace my father's family back to Co. Armagh in the late > 18th century, for many years I had simply assumed that the family had > at some time migrated there from somewhere in Scotland, an easy > assumption to make as my name is Morrison.  My research, however, > quickly discovered a very tangled Morrison history in Scotland and so, > realizing that I needed expert help, I contacted the Morrison Society > of North America.  Well, it turned out that the MSNA is promoting DNA > testing because the Morrison name had been popularly adopted over > centuries of time by at least several different families who were NOT > genetically related to each other, and DNA could help to identify just > which of those ancient Morrison families one of today's Morrisons > could come from.  That seemed quite reasonable, and so that is how I > got involved with DNA testing. > > But it turned out that I am NOT genetically related to ANY of the > Scottish Morrisons!  Huh?  What?  My name is Morrison.  Well, after > some study, it turns out that there was an ancient Irish family which > eventually adopted the Morrison name, and apparently that is the > family which I could belong to although I have not been able to make a > "paper trail" connection, but it seems a reasonable assumption. > > Back when Gaelic names were being Anglicized, the Scottish name Mac > Ghille Mhoire became Anglicized following a translation and so Mary's > son became Morrison, but could you guess why the Irish name > O'Muirgheasain also became O'Mrisane, O'Murison and Morrison? > > Let me add that I do have a 35/37 match with another Morrison, and he > traces his family to Ulster, too. > > Doug > > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 2:35 AM, Susan Hedeen > <chantillycarpets@earthlink.net> wrote: >> >> One quote that is among my favorites is, "Genealogy:Where you confuse >> the dead and irritate the living." >> >> I think it  should be differentiated the difference between genetic >> heritage after surnames and clan surnames in regard to membership with >> in the Scottish Clans. >> >> I think it also a good suggestion that the entire history as presented >> by Clan Donnachaidh be read and digested as it is very clear that many >> of the remarks posted are based on not a thorough and complete reading >> of what they say about themselves in regard to all of their chiefs, the >> work they are endeavoring, and some of the tentative discoveries they >> believe they are making with the help of Skene, Moncreiffe, and MacGregor. >> >> All members of any Scottish clan will not be related genetically.  This >> goes back to surname designations and use.  The Chiefdom if you will was >> the only area where blood line inheritance meant anything, and they did >> try to keep track of that.  Whether or not they were entirely successful >> and/or whether or not the descendants were fully aware is another matter. >> >> The fact that with in most clans there are M222 lineages should be >> suggestive.  There are varying opinions on the matter, and few agree >> 100% with one another 100% of the time.  And who is knowledgeable enough >> in this group to have the all answers? >> >> I can tell you straight out, none of us do.  One person's opinion is no >> less valid than the next and this should be evident when even the >> supposed experts can't agree.  For crying out loud -- the fire hydrants >> are losing their red paint. >> >> It is no freaking wonder that the Irish and the Scots were bloody >> warring among themselves and each other most of their collective histories. >> >> And while we are on that subject of M222, just because it has been >> tagged, no one knows what the heck Nial's dna was either. >> >> You know I keep holding out some hope that this group is really going to >> work at this project rather than the P flying all the time.  I will not >> apologize for my tantrum here. Some of you really need to behave >> yourselves.  Susan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>  R1b1c7 Research and Links: >> >> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >  R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >  R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message