I would also be interested in this vis-a-vis the Dunbars as both my paternal and maternal lineages include the Dunbars.   -- (Granuaile "Grace" Lythande O'Flanagan) http://www.facebook.com/granuaile1954 Year Thai Calendar: 2554 >________________________________ >From: Uncle Billy Dunbar <countryunplugged@aol.com> >To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com >Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 12:13 AM >Subject: Re: [R-M222] Crinan ancestry is subject to debate > >How does this effect the Dunbar's who trace thier linage back to Crinan >TheThane and are having several M222 show up? > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Robert Reid <rreid002@insight.rr.com> >To: dna-r1b1c7 <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thu, Sep 22, 2011 8:55 pm >Subject: [R-M222] Crinan ancestry is subject to debate > > >I have included the following to show that once established lines (many >in >Burkes Peerage) are wrong back to Crinan the Thane. Ian Kennedy has >mentioned Gordon MacGregor who is an excellent researcher.  There is >much >debate with many question marks. Thus M222 direct lineage is hard to >prove. >I have found that approximately 85% of Clan Donnachaidh is non M222. >Many >are Picts who were assimulated into the clan from the Perth >surroundings and >I1 varieties with Norse ancestry. All that can be really said is that >the >Earls of Atholl were collectively from the 'kindred of Columba' as >cited by >Moncreiffe and Skeene. > > > >In 2006, genealogy researcher Gordon MacGregor was asked to take a look >at >the origins of the clan and his examination of previously unconsidered >charters turned up the vital evidence which he reported in the 2007 Clan >Donnachaidh Annual. He discovered that the lands of Struan, the Clan >Donnachaidh chiefs' lands and barony in Atholl, had originally been >carved >out of the earldom of Atholl and bundled with the Lude estate as >Clunes. And >that these lands could only descend in the male line. The likely line of >ancestral ownership, for good if complex reasons, went Duncan - Andrew - >Madach of Clunes - Duncan - Malcolm, 2nd Earl of Atholl. > >    Andrew de Atholia, of Glenerocie, is the first verified male >ancestor of >the Clan Donnachaidh who is styled as father to Duncan de Atholia, in >documents in the first half of the 14th century. Tradition states that >he m. >the daughter and heiress of Angus de Glenerochie and whom he acquired >these >lands although this is not the case given that the destination of these >particular lands was to the heir-male exclusively therefore confirming a >male descent from the Earls of Atholl. He was the father of Duncan de >Atholia, 5th of Glenerochie. Duncan had charters for the land of >Discher and >Toyler from Duncan, Earl of Fife, in around 1343 AD and the lands of >Appin >of Dull from John, Bishop of Dunkeld, in Dec 1355 AD and in both of >which he >is styled as son of Andrew de Atholia. He succeeded to the lands of >Glenerochie and was an adherent of King Robert I with whom he fought at >the >battle of Bannockburn in Jun 1314 AD. He is said to have m. firstly to a >daughter of Malcolm, 5th Earl of Lenox, with who he acquired lands in >Rannoch and Fortingal, and secondly to a daughter of the Lord of the >Isles. >He is thought to have d. between 1355 - 1357 AD and was the father of >Patrick Duncanson, 1st of Lude. > > > >R1b1c7 Research and Links: > >http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com >with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >body of >the message > > >R1b1c7 Research and Links: > >http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >