I found a reference by Sir James Lamont, Chief of Lamont at the time of the 1646 massacre, to "...Orcanus, Laird of Lamount, quha livet about the nyn hundredth zeir of oure Lord." A Lamont ancestor, who lived around 900AD? I think that was around the time of Niall Glundubh. Has anyone ever heard of Orcanus? Sandy

Orcanus, Laird of Lamount? How about Arthur Urchanach O'Duibhne or Arthur of the Orchy. (Orchy is a river river flowing through Glenorchy.) Orca'nus Urca'nach Cambpell history: "Arthur Armdhearg has no less than three sons called Arthur - Arthur ‘Urchanach’ -‘of the Orchy’, Arthur Cruachan and Arthur Andrairan. This last Arthur Andrairan was said to have two sons, Patrick Drynach from whom came the MacArthurs of Inistrynich on Loch Awe and Duncan Darleith from whom the MacArthurs of Darleith. (1) (HP ii, 80.) " Is Arthur Andrairan possibly the source of Anradan? > From: equisand@equiformratings.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 09:58:12 +0100 > Subject: [R-M222] Orcanus > > I found a reference by Sir James Lamont, Chief of Lamont at the time of the > 1646 massacre, to > > > "...Orcanus, Laird of Lamount, quha livet about the nyn hundredth > zeir of oure Lord." > > > A Lamont ancestor, who lived around 900AD? I think that was around the time > of Niall Glundubh. Has anyone ever heard of Orcanus? > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I can't explain why, but I think you are spot on. But please tell me, who was O'Duibhne? You may be assuming knowledge on my part that I simply don't possess. Many thanks. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan Sent: 08 May 2011 20:03 To: dna-r1b1c7 Subject: Re: [R-M222] Orcanus Orcanus, Laird of Lamount? How about Arthur Urchanach O'Duibhne or Arthur of the Orchy. (Orchy is a river river flowing through Glenorchy.) Orca'nus Urca'nach Cambpell history: "Arthur Armdhearg has no less than three sons called Arthur - Arthur 'Urchanach' -'of the Orchy', Arthur Cruachan and Arthur Andrairan. This last Arthur Andrairan was said to have two sons, Patrick Drynach from whom came the MacArthurs of Inistrynich on Loch Awe and Duncan Darleith from whom the MacArthurs of Darleith. (1) (HP ii, 80.) " Is Arthur Andrairan possibly the source of Anradan? > From: equisand@equiformratings.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 09:58:12 +0100 > Subject: [R-M222] Orcanus > > I found a reference by Sir James Lamont, Chief of Lamont at the time of the > 1646 massacre, to > > > "...Orcanus, Laird of Lamount, quha livet about the nyn hundredth > zeir of oure Lord." > > > A Lamont ancestor, who lived around 900AD? I think that was around the time > of Niall Glundubh. Has anyone ever heard of Orcanus? > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

And have you picked up on the O'Duibhne (Arthur Urchanach O'Duibhne) possibly tying in with the McDuyne in the document from the Duke of Argyll's charter chest? Shivers down my spine. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan Sent: 08 May 2011 20:03 To: dna-r1b1c7 Subject: Re: [R-M222] Orcanus Orcanus, Laird of Lamount? How about Arthur Urchanach O'Duibhne or Arthur of the Orchy. (Orchy is a river river flowing through Glenorchy.) Orca'nus Urca'nach Cambpell history: "Arthur Armdhearg has no less than three sons called Arthur - Arthur 'Urchanach' -'of the Orchy', Arthur Cruachan and Arthur Andrairan. This last Arthur Andrairan was said to have two sons, Patrick Drynach from whom came the MacArthurs of Inistrynich on Loch Awe and Duncan Darleith from whom the MacArthurs of Darleith. (1) (HP ii, 80.) " Is Arthur Andrairan possibly the source of Anradan? > From: equisand@equiformratings.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 09:58:12 +0100 > Subject: [R-M222] Orcanus > > I found a reference by Sir James Lamont, Chief of Lamont at the time of the > 1646 massacre, to > > > "...Orcanus, Laird of Lamount, quha livet about the nyn hundredth > zeir of oure Lord." > > > A Lamont ancestor, who lived around 900AD? I think that was around the time > of Niall Glundubh. Has anyone ever heard of Orcanus? > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Bernard, Do you have a URL for the Campbell history that you've quoted? Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan Sent: 08 May 2011 20:03 To: dna-r1b1c7 Subject: Re: [R-M222] Orcanus Orcanus, Laird of Lamount? How about Arthur Urchanach O'Duibhne or Arthur of the Orchy. (Orchy is a river river flowing through Glenorchy.) Orca'nus Urca'nach Cambpell history: "Arthur Armdhearg has no less than three sons called Arthur - Arthur 'Urchanach' -'of the Orchy', Arthur Cruachan and Arthur Andrairan. This last Arthur Andrairan was said to have two sons, Patrick Drynach from whom came the MacArthurs of Inistrynich on Loch Awe and Duncan Darleith from whom the MacArthurs of Darleith. (1) (HP ii, 80.) " Is Arthur Andrairan possibly the source of Anradan? > From: equisand@equiformratings.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 09:58:12 +0100 > Subject: [R-M222] Orcanus > > I found a reference by Sir James Lamont, Chief of Lamont at the time of the > 1646 massacre, to > > > "...Orcanus, Laird of Lamount, quha livet about the nyn hundredth > zeir of oure Lord." > > > A Lamont ancestor, who lived around 900AD? I think that was around the time > of Niall Glundubh. Has anyone ever heard of Orcanus? > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Here are what Sellar gives as the records to the Campbell pedigrees. However I think my reference to MacDougall Craignish matching to the MS 1450 is unravilling with Alexander appearing between Dugall and Duncan and that Nicol is not Neill, but used for Colin per Sellar. Yet the MacDougall of Argyll continues to match with MS 1450. (I see lots of MacDougalls with R1b DNA, where are the R1a population?) Ane Accompt of the Genealogie of the Campbells http://www.archive.org/details/highlandpapers02macp Genealogy and Present State of Ancient Scottish Surnames http://books.google.com/books?id=cXdbAAAAQAAJ&pg=PR11&dq=%22Genealogy+and+Present+State+of+Ancient+Scottish+Surnames%22&hl=en&ei=th3ITfjiKpHfgQe_saXLBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=campbell&f=false Manuscript history of the Campbells of Craignish written by Alexander Campbell no link History of the House of Argyll http://www.archive.org/details/houseofargyllcol00glas > From: equisand@equiformratings.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 09:19:33 +0100 > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Orcanus > > Bernard, > > Do you have a URL for the Campbell history that you've quoted? > > Sandy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > Sent: 08 May 2011 20:03 > To: dna-r1b1c7 > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Orcanus > > > Orcanus, Laird of Lamount? How about Arthur Urchanach O'Duibhne or Arthur of > the Orchy. (Orchy is a river river flowing through Glenorchy.) > > Orca'nus > Urca'nach > > Cambpell history: > "Arthur Armdhearg has no less than three sons called Arthur - Arthur > 'Urchanach' -'of the Orchy', Arthur Cruachan and Arthur Andrairan. This last > Arthur Andrairan was said to have two sons, Patrick Drynach from whom came > the MacArthurs of Inistrynich on Loch Awe and Duncan Darleith from whom the > MacArthurs of Darleith. (1) (HP ii, 80.) " > > Is Arthur Andrairan possibly the source of Anradan? > > > > From: equisand@equiformratings.com > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 09:58:12 +0100 > > Subject: [R-M222] Orcanus > > > > I found a reference by Sir James Lamont, Chief of Lamont at the time of > the > > 1646 massacre, to > > > > > > "...Orcanus, Laird of Lamount, quha livet about the nyn hundredth > > zeir of oure Lord." > > > > > > A Lamont ancestor, who lived around 900AD? I think that was around the > time > > of Niall Glundubh. Has anyone ever heard of Orcanus? > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

> "...Orcanus, Laird of Lamount, quha livet about the nyn hundredth > zeir of oure Lord." The 1661 charter begins by Sir James Lamont saying "John M'Gilligowie in Castletoune in the Brae of Mar, and Donald Mclzegowie servitour to Sir David Ogilvie, sone to the Earle of Airlie, and all the name of M'llzeguies, ar my trew native kindlie people and kinsmen" and that they descend from one of his predecessors who was called by the nickname "Gillidow". So the they are the MacGillidowie. MS1450 tells us of Murachaidh i gilladub, i.e. Muireachaidh nikcnamed Gilladubh, the son of Neill guirm abbot of Iona. Black - in his "Surnames of Scotland" under MacIldowie (MacGillaDuibh) tells of Macgilladubh the Hermit of Iona recorded in 1164. U1164.2: Select members of the Community of Ia, namely, the arch-priest, Augustin and the lector (that is, Dubsidhe) and the Eremite, Mac Gilla-duib and the Head of the Celi-De, namely, Mac Forcellaigh and select members of the Community of Ia besides came on behalf of the successor of Colum-cille, namely, Flaithbertach Ua Brolchain's acceptance of the abbacy of Ia, by advice of Somharlidh and of the Men of Airthir-Gaedhel and of Insi-Gall; but the successor of Patrick and the king of Ireland, that is, Ua Lochlainn and the nobles of Cenel-Eogain prevented him.

[U1164.2: Select members of the Community of Ia, namely, the arch-priest, Augustin and the lector (that is, Dubsidhe) and the Eremite, Mac Gilla-duib and the Head of the Celi-De, namely, Mac Forcellaigh and select members of the Community of Ia besides came on behalf of the successor of Colum-cille, namely, Flaithbertach Ua Brolchain's acceptance of the abbacy of Ia, by advice of Somharlidh and of the Men of Airthir-Gaedhel and of Insi-Gall; but the successor of Patrick and the king of Ireland, that is, Ua Lochlainn and the nobles of Cenel-Eogain prevented him.] So Ia is Iona. Augustin is the arch-priest Dubsidhe is the lector Mac Gilla-duib is the Eremite Mac Forcellaigh is the Head of the Celi-De Can you help with Eremite? To me this means that, totally independently of the new transcript of MS 1467, the Annals identify a Mac Gilla-duib with Iona and its inhabitants. There could of course have been more than one Gilla-duib. And of course this is in 1164, whereas Sir James spoke of Orcanus having lived around A.D. 900. So this means that Mac Gille Dubh would have to have become a patrynomic surname within two generations of Neill guirm. Were patronyms in use in Iona by then? If so, I'd say that Neill guarm the abbot must surely be a more likely candidate than Niall Glundubh for Lamont ancestry, which was my gut feeling anyway. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan Sent: 17 May 2011 16:59 To: dna-r1b1c7 Subject: [R-M222] Iona - MacGuilaDuibh ancestors to the Lamonts? > "...Orcanus, Laird of Lamount, quha livet about the nyn hundredth > zeir of oure Lord." The 1661 charter begins by Sir James Lamont saying "John M'Gilligowie in Castletoune in the Brae of Mar, and Donald Mclzegowie servitour to Sir David Ogilvie, sone to the Earle of Airlie, and all the name of M'llzeguies, ar my trew native kindlie people and kinsmen" and that they descend from one of his predecessors who was called by the nickname "Gillidow". So the they are the MacGillidowie. MS1450 tells us of Murachaidh i gilladub, i.e. Muireachaidh nikcnamed Gilladubh, the son of Neill guirm abbot of Iona. Black - in his "Surnames of Scotland" under MacIldowie (MacGillaDuibh) tells of Macgilladubh the Hermit of Iona recorded in 1164. U1164.2: Select members of the Community of Ia, namely, the arch-priest, Augustin and the lector (that is, Dubsidhe) and the Eremite, Mac Gilla-duib and the Head of the Celi-De, namely, Mac Forcellaigh and select members of the Community of Ia besides came on behalf of the successor of Colum-cille, namely, Flaithbertach Ua Brolchain's acceptance of the abbacy of Ia, by advice of Somharlidh and of the Men of Airthir-Gaedhel and of Insi-Gall; but the successor of Patrick and the king of Ireland, that is, Ua Lochlainn and the nobles of Cenel-Eogain prevented him. R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message