Hello Marie [1. When the kit name is in the same row as itself, Column E, "GD over 111 markers" always = 0. I think I get that. 2. The last column, F, "Number of off-modal matches over 111 markers" has a value (my father's = 8), but I'm not sure what this means. Could you please explain this?] The file is essentially a comparison of each testee's 111-marker results with each other testee's results (including a testee's own results). I thought of excluding the comparison of each person with himself, but decided to leave them in, because in such cases column F gives that person's 'misses' with the M222 modal, which I thought might be interesting. For example, column F for James Golden, has the value 8, which means he has 8 mismatches with the M222 modal. The word modal is used to describe the most common value in a haplogroup, or a sub-clade like M222, of all the markers. So the M222 modal starts off: 13,25,14,11,..... The reason for distinguishing between an on-modal match and an off-modal match, is that on-modal matches are common, whereas off-modal matches occur far less frequently, and should therefore be more helpful in recognising likely kinship. This is particularly so in M222, where a very high proportion of testees are on modal. [3.Does column E (GD over 111 markers) suggest the order of presumed consanguinity between my father and the other person? For example, is Coyne, Kit # N32460, the closest relationship to my father? Its value = 9 and the next one = 13.] The files has been sorted on column A, then within column, on column B, then within that, it is sorted on column E, which is the GD. The idea was to sort in order of 'relatedness', although a GD on its own is just a rough guide. Useful, but not conclusive. So yes, Coyne N32460 is probably (but not definitely) the closest relation to your father. Bear in mind though, that there is only one solitary off-modal match with Coyne N32460 (column F), so the relationship looks distant. How distant is difficult to tell, since research on how to interpret 111-marker results has really only just begun. [4. What is the relationship between columns E and F? Does the "GD over 111 markers" (column E) of the person next to my father refer to the differences between my father and the other person or is it just associated with that person?] The GD's are the differences between two people. Columns E & F have no direct connection with each other in the sense that that a high value in E doesn't necessarily mean a high value in F. However, a high value in F suggests that the value in E has probably underestimated the relatedness between the two people, whereas a low value in F suggests that the degree of relatedness is probably overestimated. [5. I assume a "9" in column E trumps a 13, but what is the difference between a 15/0 vs. a 15/2 in columns E and F? in this example, the15/2 comes before the 15/0, so I'm wondering how to interpret this.] Yes, a 9 suggests a closer relationship than a 13. Also, 15/2 is closer than 15/0, but I didn't go as far as sorting on column F, so the fact that the list shows 15/2 before 15/0 is probably just a co-incidence. The feeling I get when doing this kind of analysis is that there's not much difference between 15/0 and 15/1, and it's really only when you get to 3 or more off-modal matches that things become interesting. I hope this helps. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marie Kerr Sent: 20 July 2011 01:20 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] 111-Marker results Thank you; this looks very interesting. However, I don't fully understand the meaning of the table:

Thank you!! -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Paterson Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 2:51 AM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] 111-Marker results Hello Marie [1. When the kit name is in the same row as itself, Column E, "GD over 111 markers" always = 0. I think I get that. 2. The last column, F, "Number of off-modal matches over 111 markers" has a value (my father's = 8), but I'm not sure what this means. Could you please explain this?] The file is essentially a comparison of each testee's 111-marker results with each other testee's results (including a testee's own results). I thought of excluding the comparison of each person with himself, but decided to leave them in, because in such cases column F gives that person's 'misses' with the M222 modal, which I thought might be interesting. For example, column F for James Golden, has the value 8, which means he has 8 mismatches with the M222 modal. The word modal is used to describe the most common value in a haplogroup, or a sub-clade like M222, of all the markers. So the M222 modal starts off: 13,25,14,11,..... The reason for distinguishing between an on-modal match and an off-modal match, is that on-modal matches are common, whereas off-modal matches occur far less frequently, and should therefore be more helpful in recognising likely kinship. This is particularly so in M222, where a very high proportion of testees are on modal. [3.Does column E (GD over 111 markers) suggest the order of presumed consanguinity between my father and the other person? For example, is Coyne, Kit # N32460, the closest relationship to my father? Its value = 9 and the next one = 13.] The files has been sorted on column A, then within column, on column B, then within that, it is sorted on column E, which is the GD. The idea was to sort in order of 'relatedness', although a GD on its own is just a rough guide. Useful, but not conclusive. So yes, Coyne N32460 is probably (but not definitely) the closest relation to your father. Bear in mind though, that there is only one solitary off-modal match with Coyne N32460 (column F), so the relationship looks distant. How distant is difficult to tell, since research on how to interpret 111-marker results has really only just begun. [4. What is the relationship between columns E and F? Does the "GD over 111 markers" (column E) of the person next to my father refer to the differences between my father and the other person or is it just associated with that person?] The GD's are the differences between two people. Columns E & F have no direct connection with each other in the sense that that a high value in E doesn't necessarily mean a high value in F. However, a high value in F suggests that the value in E has probably underestimated the relatedness between the two people, whereas a low value in F suggests that the degree of relatedness is probably overestimated. [5. I assume a "9" in column E trumps a 13, but what is the difference between a 15/0 vs. a 15/2 in columns E and F? in this example, the15/2 comes before the 15/0, so I'm wondering how to interpret this.] Yes, a 9 suggests a closer relationship than a 13. Also, 15/2 is closer than 15/0, but I didn't go as far as sorting on column F, so the fact that the list shows 15/2 before 15/0 is probably just a co-incidence. The feeling I get when doing this kind of analysis is that there's not much difference between 15/0 and 15/1, and it's really only when you get to 3 or more off-modal matches that things become interesting. I hope this helps. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marie Kerr Sent: 20 July 2011 01:20 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] 111-Marker results Thank you; this looks very interesting. However, I don't fully understand the meaning of the table: R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If you investigate via an RCC matrix you must clear out those Zero values because they will lead to a false TMRCA for groups within a cluster. - Bye from Bill On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:51 AM, Alexander Paterson wrote: > Hello Marie > > > [1. When the kit name is in the same row as itself, Column E, "GD over > 111 markers" always = 0. I think I get that. > 2. The last column, F, "Number of off-modal matches over 111 markers" > has a value (my father's = 8), but I'm not sure what this means. Could you > please explain this?] > > > The file is essentially a comparison of each testee's 111-marker results > with each other testee's results (including a testee's own results). I > thought of excluding the comparison of each person with himself, but decided > to leave them in, because in such cases column F gives that person's > 'misses' with the M222 modal, which I thought might be interesting. > > For example, column F for James Golden, has the value 8, which means he has > 8 mismatches with the M222 modal. > > The word modal is used to describe the most common value in a haplogroup, or > a sub-clade like M222, of all the markers. So the M222 modal starts off: > > 13,25,14,11,..... > > The reason for distinguishing between an on-modal match and an off-modal > match, is that on-modal matches are common, whereas off-modal matches occur > far less frequently, and should therefore be more helpful in recognising > likely kinship. This is particularly so in M222, where a very high > proportion of testees are on modal. > > [3.Does column E (GD over 111 markers) suggest the order of presumed > consanguinity between my father and the other person? For example, is > Coyne, Kit # N32460, the closest relationship to my father? Its value = 9 > and the next one = 13.] > > The files has been sorted on column A, then within column, on column B, then > within that, it is sorted on column E, which is the GD. The idea was to sort > in order of 'relatedness', although a GD on its own is just a rough guide. > Useful, but not conclusive. So yes, Coyne N32460 is probably (but not > definitely) the closest relation to your father. Bear in mind though, that > there is only one solitary off-modal match with Coyne N32460 (column F), so > the relationship looks distant. How distant is difficult to tell, since > research on how to interpret 111-marker results has really only just begun. > > [4. What is the relationship between columns E and F? Does the "GD over > 111 markers" (column E) of the person next to my father refer to the > differences between my father and the other person or is it just associated > with that person?] > > The GD's are the differences between two people. Columns E & F have no > direct connection with each other in the sense that that a high value in E > doesn't necessarily mean a high value in F. However, a high value in F > suggests that the value in E has probably underestimated the relatedness > between the two people, whereas a low value in F suggests that the degree of > relatedness is probably overestimated. > > [5. I assume a "9" in column E trumps a 13, but what is the difference > between a 15/0 vs. a 15/2 in columns E and F? in this example, the15/2 > comes before the 15/0, so I'm wondering how to interpret this.] > > Yes, a 9 suggests a closer relationship than a 13. Also, 15/2 is closer than > 15/0, but I didn't go as far as sorting on column F, so the fact that the > list shows 15/2 before 15/0 is probably just a co-incidence. The feeling I > get when doing this kind of analysis is that there's not much difference > between 15/0 and 15/1, and it's really only when you get to 3 or more > off-modal matches that things become interesting. > > I hope this helps. > > > Sandy > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marie Kerr > Sent: 20 July 2011 01:20 > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] 111-Marker results > > Thank you; this looks very interesting. However, I don't fully understand > the meaning of the table: > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message