I can confirm your observation in your last paragraph that the Greers and Griersons are slightly less closely related. They tend to stand apart on the phylogenetic tree. - Bye from Bill Howard On Jul 20, 2011, at 5:37 AM, Alexander Paterson wrote: > Hi David > > I completely agree with your view on the importance of off-modal matches, > although I'd express it a little differently. I think all three of GD, > number of matches, and number of off-modal matches are useful, and their > inter-relationship is valuable in examining possible kinship. That's what > much of my research focuses on. I'd like, with your blessing, to use your > Chart 1d as an example. Would it be OK for me to link to it from my site? > I'm at > > http://www.tmrca.com/ > > One point you might find helpful is that DYS389ii is not actually a marker, > but the sum of two other markers, and needs special treatment. If we denote > the two single markers as 389i and 389b, we have > > 389i + 389b = 389ii > > Leaving 389ii as the labs report it can lead to a matching inaccuracy in > comparing haplotypes. This is relevant in Grierson, because of the presence > of 13-29 amongst Grier(son) but predominantly 14-29 amongst Greer. It is a > little more accurate to consider them to be > > 13-16 for Grier(son). > 14-15 for Greer. > > This leads to the conclusion that Grier(son) and Greer are slightly less > closely related than suggested if you use the results as reported by the > lab. Notwithstanding that, the abundance of off-modal matches is powerful > evidence of a close kinship. > > > Sandy > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of J David Grierson > Sent: 20 July 2011 03:12 > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] 111-Marker results > > Sandy, > That's one of the great unknowns, I'm afraid. All I can say for certain > is that the relationship is older than 300 years. However, you have > identified the point of my research (off-modal matching), which you will > see illustrated in the Grier Chart 1d (Excel) at > http://www.shade.id.au/Grierson/GriersonDNA.htm. > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message