Hi all, Those of you interested in the origins of the R-M222 haplogroup may be interested to know that a new SNP, tentatively called DF23, has been identified which is apparently upstream of M222 and downstream of L21. More discussion is here: http://dna-forums.org/index.php?/topic/15595-new-snp-for-l21-df23-upstream-of-m222/ In short, this means that all M222+ men should be positive for the new SNP, including the originator of the M222 clade. This may then offer some insight into the much-debated question of whether M222 originated in Ireland or Great Britain. At least one man has been identified who is DF23+ but M222- but I don't believe the thread above offers any information about his ancestry. The SNP is not yet available for commercial testing but based on past history with the DF-series SNPs, it will likely be available from Family Tree DNA within a matter of weeks. However, though people on this list (who are probably M222+) may be interested in the results there is no point in any M222+ man ordering it. Steve