In a message dated 6/26/2011 1:46:11 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com writes: That's my point, except that most of them also have DYS439=13. But only two off-modal matches doesn't convince me. I don't find it overwhelmingly convincing either. Hence my description of a "wimpy modal." Yet the surnames match, only one group of M222 Cains has been identified with a few non matching M222 strays, and there are plenty of samples so close to the M222 modal that almost nothing can be said about them by comparing them to the M222 modal to look for differences. I'm not sure anything can be done with these except to use genetic distance. <You may not yet be convinced, but I am. Convinced of what? I'm not sure I even know what your theory is. John