In a message dated 6/25/2011 3:37:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com writes: The Cain and Kane in the M222 project plus my haplotype all have DYS439=13 DYS570=18 DYS446=14+ DYS715=23 DYS513=14 DYS643=11 Those are the same off modal markers I'm showing for the O Cathains ol Barra McCain . Plus 389ii = 30. f<In the O'Cathain group of Ulster Heritage, only a solitary Cain has the above, with Devenny, McHenry and Slavin not matching any of the 68-111 marker ones. Slaven though, matches two other off-modal markers with me in the 68-111 marker group. I think you need to expand your selection of samples. Look at Barra's web site and the FTDNA Cain project run by Rory O'Cain. Most of these are not yet 111 marker groups so the comparisons are only valid through DYS 570 = 18. I have 27 Cains/Kanes/O'Kanes/ etc with this value. For the other markers in the 68-111 marker set, I've only got two Cain samples, both from the M222 project. Both have DYS446 = 14 or higher. One Cain matches the other markers above (715, 513, 643). The Slavens ample matches all three. I don't think you have enough samples to known anything for sure about how many Cains/O Cathains will eventually match these markers. I said previously I wasn't sure if some of the Cain/Kane samples matched the O Cathain group of Barra McCain. That's because the O Cathain modal is really pretty skimpy, with three off modal markers in the first 67. A lot of the samples (14) miss at 439 =13. These samples contain lots of surname variants - Cain, Kane, O'Kane, McCann, Keane,. One sample McKean misses all the modal markers. I'm sure this one cannot be a valid member of the cluster. The surname variants among those who do match the modal exactly are the same. In establishing this DNA modal Barra did a lot of recruiting in the Londonderry Co. area, the original stronghold of the Ulster O Cathains. I just looked at Barra's Cain site. Almost all of the M222 Cains are clustered in the O Cathain section with a few in an unclustered group. _http://mccaindna.ulsterheritage.com/_ (http://mccaindna.ulsterheritage.com/) The only 111 marker results in the group are for kit 69577 which is also in the M222 group. John