If Conal Gulban & Eogain were Cruithni - then explain the 3rd entry in the Chronicle of Ireland under year 563: "The Battle of Moin Daire Lothair was won by the Ui Neill of the North against the Cruithni, in which seven kings of the Cruithnig fell including Aed Brecc." Entry 2 was "The voyage of Colum Cille to the island of Iona in his forty-second year of his life" Colum Cille and Adomnan were of the Cenel Conaill and not the Cruithni. Adomnan and Columba are prominent in the early texts of the Cenel Conaill and reference to ColumCille as ancestor of Conal Gulban. Wikipedia - There is no direct evidence for the identity of the Chronicle's successive authors, but scholars are confident that it was produced by annalists working in churches and monasteries and was intended for an ecclesiastical audience. The version of the Chronicle that annalists and chroniclers were working from was written in different places at different times; the earliest evidence for one of its authors places it in Iona sometime after 563, continuing until about 642. Around 639, another chronicle of uncertain origin was begun elsewhere and merged with the Iona chronicle in the second half of the 7th century. -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dna-r1b1c7-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 8:00 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 271 Today's Topics: 1. Re: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 269 (Robert Reid) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 19:59:50 -0400 From: "Robert Reid" <rreid002@insight.rr.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 269 To: <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <000101cc6127$949e1a70$bdda4f50$@insight.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cenel Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms 500 - 800, p 145: "In addition, two possibly earlier population groups have also been mentioned: The Windukatii in the Dunfanaghy area who may have been the precursors of the Cenel Duach kingdom of Goll and Irgoo." Page 101 "The name Dunfanaghy is usually said to be an anglicisation of Dun Fionnachaidh, the fort of the white field (Mac Giolla Easpaig 1995, 161), but Alan Mac an Bhaird has argued that it derives from a very early Proto-Irish form Dunon Windukation 'the fort of the Windukatii'. The latter, he argues, is a tribal name that appears as Ouenniknioi in Ptolemy's material for a map of these islands, compiled in the first century AD" No mention of the Venicones or 'Ven' related tribes in Lacey's book. -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dna-r1b1c7-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 7:05 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 269 Today's Topics: 1. Re: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 (Robert Reid) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 19:04:45 -0400 From: "Robert Reid" <rreid002@insight.rr.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 To: <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <000101cc611f$e257b120$a7071360$@insight.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Review of Lacey's book CEN?L CONAILL AND THE DONEGAL KINGDOMS, AD 500 ? 800 by Tomas ),Canann. Cen?l Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 Brian Lacey CEN?L CONAILL AND THE DONEGAL KINGDOMS, AD 500 ? 800. Four Courts Press, Dublin, 2006. Pp 351. Price 45 Euro. ISBN 978-1-85182-978-1. "Lacey expertly deconstructs this fable, as well. Based on detailed analysis of maternal ancestries, place names, hagiography, archaeology, and saints? genealogies, he concludes that Cen?l Conaill were more likely a Cruithin people affiliated with the U? Echach Coba and, perhaps, the Conaille Muirtheimme. His position is well-reasoned, but knotty problems occasioned by vague and contradictory sources render his conclusion necessarily speculative." Paragraph 3 Tom?s G. ? Canann. Perched high atop a narrow isthmus, the Grian?n Ailig strategically guards the great northern waterways of Lough Foyle and Lough Swilly. On a clear day, it commands a panoramic view in all directions; in particular, the southwestern prospect extends more than 35 miles, clean through the famed Bernas M?r gap in the Blue Stack Mountains, to the cobalt waters of Donegal Bay. This massive stone cashel may have been built shortly after the pivotal battle of Cl?itech in 789, both to create a more impressive caput for Cen?l nE?gain and to celebrate its decisive victory over archrival Cen?l Conaill for supremacy of the territory known today as County Donegal. How the emerging kingdom of Ailech came to be consolidated by the end of the eighth century is the subject of an important new book by Dr Brian Lacey, pioneering director of the Donegal Archaeological Survey, noted Columban scholar, and distinguished historian of medieval Ulster. Why this story matters in the larger ?national? picture is explained at the outset: the first two, perhaps the first three, genuinely historical figures described as ?king of Ireland? in early texts came from Cen?l Conaill in Donegal. That same people gave birth to Colum Cille and Adomn?n, the most prominent Irish clerics of the sixth and seventh centuries. Their monastery at Iona in the Inner Hebrides, staffed mainly by monks from Donegal, quickly became a place of enormous cultural influence. In fact, Lacey perceptively notes, compilation of the Iona Chronicle seems to have initiated the practice of recording annals, and thus the Donegal community in spiritual exile there could justly be said to have invented the writing of Irish history. The origin of early medieval Donegal, as it was understood for many centuries, represented a carefully-built construct of two distinct phases in Irish historiography. The earlier stratum began in the eighth century when historians promoted the political supremacy of the U? N?ill (particularly Cen?l nE?gain) in tandem with the ecclesiastical primacy of Armagh. Lacey identifies the likely sponsors of this ambitious intellectual and propaganda enterprise as ?ed All?n (d. 743), Cen?l nE?gain king of Tara, and Congus (d. 750), bishop of Armagh. Their burst of literary activity involved a ruthless redaction (Lacey likens it to ?Stalinization?) of the early annals, genealogies, and regnal lists that projected the political alignment of the eighth-century back, conveniently beyond the time of memory, into the largely undocumented fifth century. Contemporaneous with that editorial process, scholars began designating a dozen peoples in the northwest, led chiefly by Cen?l Conaill and Cen?l nE?gain, under a new rubric: U? N?ill in Tuaiscirt. Lacey collectively labels their territory ?the Donegal kingdoms.? Drawing on recent scholarship by Thomas Charles-Edwards, Ailbhe Mac Shamhr?in, and others, he makes a compelling case for their biological distinctiveness from those midland peoples traditionally regarded as nepotes N?ill. A second literary phase occurred in the thirteenth century as the newly emergent ? Domhnaill dynasty sponsored its own aetiology of Cen?l Conaill. That effort, incorporating earlier recensions, was codified in Eachtra Conaill Gulban, a bloodthirsty saga recounting how Niall No?giallach?s sons invaded Donegal from Connacht and conquered its indigenous inhabitants (D?l Fiatach). Lacey expertly deconstructs this fable, as well. Based on detailed analysis of maternal ancestries, placenames, hagiography, archaeology, and saints? genealogies, he concludes that Cen?l Conaill were more likely a Cruithin people affiliated with the U? Echach Coba and, perhaps, the Conaille Muirtheimme. His position is well-reasoned, but knotty problems occasioned by vague and contradictory sources render his conclusion necessarily speculative. Following the seminal research of D?nall Mac Giolla Easpaig, Niall ? D?naill, and others, Lacey also makes a strong case for the separate biological identity of its constituent peoples who, according to the medieval genealogies, encompassed a southern dynasty (Cen?l n?eda Esa Ruaid), a western kindred (Cen?l mB?gaine), and a northern sept (Cen?l Lugdach), among others. In fact, though, a newly-published DNA analysis of modern surname-bearers demonstrates that these Cen?l Conaill peoples share a distinctive haplotype characteristic with each other and with Cen?l nE?gain [Laoise T. Moore et al., ?A Y-Chromosome Signature of Hegemony in Gaelic Ireland,? American Journal of Human Genetics 78 (2006) 334-38]. Saliva swabs taken from bearers of surnames originating in Cen?l n?eda Esa Ruaid (Cannon, Gallagher), Cen?l Lugdach (Boyle, Doherty, McMenamin, O?Donnell), and Cen?l nE?gain (Devlin, Donnelly, Gormley, McLoughlin, O?Kane, Quinn) reveal a common genetic marker from a single ancestor who lived about 1,730 years ago in the Irish northwest. Lacey persuasively eliminates Niall No?giallach as that progenitor, but other (fictional?) candidates remain: Cana mac Luigdech L?mfhata, D?l Fiatach leader of Sentuatha Ulaid (ECG); Echu Doiml?n, father of the Three Collas (T.F. O?Rahilly, D?ibh? ? Cr?in?n); or perhaps Lacey?s own anonymous Cruithin prince. All we know for certain is that proto-historic Donegal was contested as ferann claidib, ?sword-land,? tellingly symbolised here by the Ballyshannon sword hilt (Early Iron Age) that graces the frontispiece. Brian Lacey?s pathbreaking study represents the mature fruit of three decades of fieldwork and publication. He provides a fascinating synthesis of scholarship new and old (the bibliography alone contains 240 items), supported by a vast array of landscape photographs, references, maps, drawings, and genealogical tables designed to ease the way for readers. His book is densely packed with fresh insights, e.g. suggesting Mag n?tha as the original homeland of Cen?l Conaill, locating Adomn?n?s birthplace in Cen?l n?nnai, positing Druim Tuama and Derry as boundary churches of early Cen?l Conaill, identifying Ircoir battlesite (AFM 787) as the townland of Raforker (R?ith Ircoir?), delineating the Ballintra wetlands as the boundary between Mag Latrain and Mag Sereth, and proposing Tory Island as initially a Cen?l nE?gain foundation. Cen?l Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms forges a brilliant new template for our evolving understanding of Irish antiquity. It is destined to take its place as the leading reinterpretation of the powerful U? N?ill federation and its hold on the prized kingship of Tara. Tom?s G. ? Canann -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dna-r1b1c7-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 5:15 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 Today's Topics: 1. Re: MacLysaght and Woulfe (Jerry Kelly) 2. Re: MacLysaght and Woulfe (Bob Quinn) 3. Re: Cenel Conaill And the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 (Paul Conroy) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:42:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@irishtribes.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <1314042158.1919.YahooMailClassic@web1102.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Bob a chara, MacLysaght is still under copyright buy Sloinnte Gaedheal Is Gall (Surnames of the Gaeil and Gaill) by an t-Athair P?draig de Bhulbh (Fr. Patrick Woulfe) is available at: http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, but excellent nevertheless. Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, Jerry Treibheanna ?ireannacha www.irishtribes.com --- On Mon, 8/22/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> wrote: > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? N?ill? > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 12:38 PM > > Thank you, Gerry. Is there any way to get McLysacht's read on names > other than to buy the book? I had no? luck on the Internet. Regards, > Bob > > Bob Quinn > President&CEO > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI > Manufacturer's Roundtable > 27 Langton Lane > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > T:610-331-4920 > e-mail:raaq@live.com > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > ? > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:17:21 -0700 > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [R-M222]??? Cen?l Maine - > truly U? N?ill? > > > > Bob a chara, > > > > Someone may have answered this already but Quinn is > short for X Cuinn / X of Conn.? Cuinn is the genitive of Conn, a > grammatical way to say 'of Conn'.? Mac Cuinn would be Son of Conn.? ? > Cuinn would be Grandson of Conn.? But the 'of' part is in Cuinn, not > in Mac or ?.? > > > > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, > > Jerry > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > wrote: > > > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? > N?ill? > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 2:23 PM > > > > > > Would like to know his opinion. Everyone else > thinks it is > > > Son of Conn. > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > President&CEO > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > Partners > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:52:05 +0100 > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > U? > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > Thanks Bob > > > > > > > > Do you or anyone else know what McLysacht > gives for > > > the derivation of the > > > > surname Quinn? > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > On Behalf Of Bob Quinn > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 16:29 > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > U? > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 15, 12,12, on DYS 19,439,442. > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > President&CEO > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > Partners > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > From: raaq@live.com > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:06:30 -0400 > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - > truly U? > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in any resource for > Haplotypes of > > > the early Celts, so I'll > > > > be watching for feedback. I am included in > R-M222 and > > > my Quinns/Murphys are > > > > from Armagh. The Davidski studies indicate a > higher > > > Scandinavain component > > > > for me than for most Irish. Does this mean > anything to > > > anybody? > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay > Street > > > Partners > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's > Roundtable > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:48:52 > +0100 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > - truly > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bernard > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think the MagCargamni is a > candidate > > > for the origins of > > > > McHarg/Mac > > > > > > Giolla Chairge? Also, can you > point me to > > > his haplotype? > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found an interesting match > between > > > Ewing and a Quinn, with matches > > > > at > > > > > > DYS 19,439,442 = 15,13,11. I don't > think the > > > Quinn is from O'Quin > > > > though. I > > > > > > think he's from Mackquein, which > may be from > > > McEwen of Ottir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 07:04 > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > - truly > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > > >? > > > > > > Of course I have a vested interest > in > > > understanding Cenel Maine, however > > > > I > > > > > > hadn't taken the step to > investigate the > > > claim against Cenel Maine. > > > > Brynes?s > > > > > > argument - that Cenel Maine has > conflicting > > > pedigree and that closeness > > > > to > > > > > > Ui Maine means that they are Ui > Maine Fails. > > > For Dobbs shows that "Cenel > > > > > > Maine" originates in a seperate > location > > > distant from Ui Maine. > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the > > > > > > list, > please send an > > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > >? ??? > > >? ? ? ??? > > >? ? ? ? ??? > > >??? > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, > > > > > please > send an > > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > >? ??? > > >? ? ? ??? > > >? ? ? ? ??? > > >??? > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > > > > > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the > > > subject and the body of the message ? ??? > > >? ? ? ??? > > >? ? ? ? ??? > > >??? > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of the message ??? > ???????? > ?????? ??? > ? > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:17:09 -0400 From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe To: <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <BLU128-W1895CD6796640A94586BB3A02F0@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Thanks very much, Jerry. Regards, Bob Bob Quinn President&CEO Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable 27 Langton Lane Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 T:610-331-4920 e-mail:raaq@live.com Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:42:38 -0700 > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe > > Bob a chara, > > MacLysaght is still under copyright buy Sloinnte Gaedheal Is Gall (Surnames of the Gaeil and Gaill) by an t-Athair P?draig de Bhulbh (Fr. Patrick Woulfe) is available at: > > http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php > > An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, but excellent nevertheless. > > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, > Jerry > > Treibheanna ?ireannacha > www.irishtribes.com > > > --- On Mon, 8/22/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> wrote: > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? N?ill? > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 12:38 PM > > > > Thank you, Gerry. Is there any way to get McLysacht's read on names > > other than to buy the book? I had no luck on the Internet. Regards, > > Bob > > > > Bob Quinn > > President&CEO > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI > > Manufacturer's Roundtable > > 27 Langton Lane > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > T:610-331-4920 > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:17:21 -0700 > > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - > > truly U? N?ill? > > > > > > Bob a chara, > > > > > > Someone may have answered this already but Quinn is > > short for X Cuinn / X of Conn. Cuinn is the genitive of Conn, a > > grammatical way to say 'of Conn'. Mac Cuinn would be Son of Conn. > > ? Cuinn would be Grandson of Conn. But the 'of' part is in Cuinn, > > not in Mac or ?. > > > > > > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, > > > Jerry > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? > > N?ill? > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 2:23 PM > > > > > > > > Would like to know his opinion. Everyone else > > thinks it is > > > > Son of Conn. > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > President&CEO > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > > Partners > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:52:05 +0100 > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > > U? > > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Bob > > > > > > > > > > Do you or anyone else know what McLysacht > > gives for > > > > the derivation of the > > > > > surname Quinn? > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Bob Quinn > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 16:29 > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > > U? > > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 15, 12,12, on DYS 19,439,442. > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > > Partners > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: raaq@live.com > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:06:30 -0400 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - > > truly U? > > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in any resource for > > Haplotypes of > > > > the early Celts, so I'll > > > > > be watching for feedback. I am included in > > R-M222 and > > > > my Quinns/Murphys are > > > > > from Armagh. The Davidski studies indicate a > > higher > > > > Scandinavain component > > > > > for me than for most Irish. Does this mean > > anything to > > > > anybody? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay > > Street > > > > Partners > > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's > > Roundtable > > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > > Profile: > > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:48:52 > > +0100 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > > - truly > > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bernard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think the MagCargamni is a > > candidate > > > > for the origins of > > > > > McHarg/Mac > > > > > > > Giolla Chairge? Also, can you > > point me to > > > > his haplotype? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found an interesting match > > between > > > > Ewing and a Quinn, with matches > > > > > at > > > > > > > DYS 19,439,442 = 15,13,11. I don't > > think the > > > > Quinn is from O'Quin > > > > > though. I > > > > > > > think he's from Mackquein, which > > may be from > > > > McEwen of Ottir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > > > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 07:04 > > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > > - truly > > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course I have a vested interest > > in > > > > understanding Cenel Maine, however > > > > > I > > > > > > > hadn't taken the step to > > investigate the > > > > claim against Cenel Maine. > > > > > Brynes?s > > > > > > > argument - that Cenel Maine has > > conflicting > > > > pedigree and that closeness > > > > > to > > > > > > > Ui Maine means that they are Ui > > Maine Fails. > > > > For Dobbs shows that "Cenel > > > > > > > Maine" originates in a seperate > > location > > > > distant from Ui Maine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the > > > > > > > list, > > please send an > > > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the > > > > > > list, please > > send an > > > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, > > > > > please send an > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, > > > > > please send an > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > the > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > > email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > the > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 17:14:38 -0400 From: Paul Conroy <pconroy63@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenel Conaill And the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <CA+2t2c5RZG=gXzsY4MXu_C9sJnKg-chof2wjvTB5FRpjNmmK3g@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 John, BTW, I just noticed something in your link to Connachta Clans: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/connachta.htm It lists: *McConroi = King* This Gaelic name is also translated as "*Conroy*" of course, as well as Conry, Connery and so on. Did you compile this list yourself or got it from some other source? More here: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Conroy/default.aspx?section=ycolorized Cheers, Paul On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Bernard Morgan <bernardmorgan@hotmail.com>wrote: > > > Here are a few quotes from Lacey's book. He believes the northern Ui > > Neill (Cenel Conaill, Cenel Eoghain and Cenel Enda) did not move > > north > into > > Donegal as stated by all Irish historians but were Cruithin, > > One way to answer to the question is whether they share the same mutation. > > In ysearch.org sometime back I found Conlon NM4WF from Belfield, Co. > Westmeath who is M222+. Belfield is near Gaybrook and is within the > former lands of Clann Enna mac Laoghaire. The O'Conlon (O Caindelbain) > are the senior branch of Clann Enda mac Laogaire and of Cenel Laogaire > in Midi. So is Cenel Laogaire of the Southern Ui Neill M222+? > > > > From a DNA standpoint, I'm not sure we can yet say the northern and > > southern Ui Neill were related by blood in descent from Niall. Most > > of > the DNA > > we possess is either Connachta or northern Ui Neill in origin. Or > > just > plain > > of unknown origin. There is some in the south, O'Mulloys and > > Geoghegans, I think the Trinity study largely skipped over southern > > Ui Neill > surnames. > > In the following list I only see a few that might be southern Ui Neill. > > > > (O?)Gallagher (12), > > (O?)Boyle (9), (O?)Doherty (5), O?Donnell (4), O?Connor (3), Cannon > > (3), Bradley (2), O?Reilly (2), Flynn (2), (Mc)Kee (2), Campbell > > (1), Devlin (1), Donnelly (1), Egan (1), Gormley (1), Hynes (1), > > McCaul (1), McGovern (1), McLoughlin (1), McManus (1), McMenamin > > (1), Molloy (1), O?Kane (1), O?Rourke (1), and Quinn (1). > > > > Molloy might be one. McLoughlin another if the O Mailsechlainns of > > Meath were targeted. But that also could be MacLochlainn of Donegal. > > The Trinity report did not investigate the existance of M222+ amongst > the Southern Ui Neill? > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ End of DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 ****************************************** ------------------------------ End of DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 269 ****************************************** ------------------------------ End of DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 271 ******************************************