In a message dated 8/21/2011 5:05:22 A.M. Central Daylight Time, ikennedy_msdn2@hotmail.com writes: I don't think any earlier MS have anything useful to us and I'm not even sure any MS physically survives from the time that Niall himself lived? ' Thanks, Iain. I worked through O'Rahilly's chapter on Niall to see what sources he used and didn't come away with much. I also read through a chapter on Laceys book on the Donegal clans and just found references to a few poems perhaps dating to the 700s, one of which mentioned Loegaire, son of Niall. Both mention Adamnan Life of Columcille as a trustworthy source. John