In a message dated 8/9/2011 5:51:08 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com writes: I've had a look at the Doherty/Daugherty 68-111 marker set (I have 5 on record). They seem to be modal at 14 for DYS441 (compared to 13 for M222). Unfortunately that's the only marker in the 68-111 set that may give a further clue. I think it costs around $9 to have a single marker tested, so it may be an idea to have one or two McLaughlins tested for just that one marker. Some upgrades could be worthwhile. I don't have much influence over the McLaughlins in our project though. I still haven't been able to convince a lot of budge from 12 markers. Just to make things more confusing I added a lot of O Cathain DNA to the chart. These samples came from Barra McCain's site and an FTDNA site on O'Kanes. _http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/Mcldoh.htm_ (http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/Mcldoh.htm) The O Cathains were probably the closest relatives to the McLaughlins within the Cenel Eoghain yet their DNA bears no resemblance. In fact the McLaughlins are closer to the Dohertys, a more distant connection by 300 years or so. A couple of possibilities occur to me. Perhaps the traditional genealogies aren't right. That wouldn't surprise me much. Of the surnames under discussion, only the McLaughlins have a pedigree that can be verified at all in the annals. The early lines of the Cenel Conaill are verifiable, but they trace the line of two former chieftains, the O Muldoraidhs and O Concannains, not the O'Donnells and O'Dohertys. The O'Donnells, O'Dohertys and O Cathains just pop up out of no where in the 1100-1200s. The story goes that the three sons of Niall, Owen, Conall gulban and Enna, moved north to Donegal sometime during or after their father's reign (c. 400-450). Presumably they took followers with them, unrelated mercenaries or even men of their own tribe. Perhaps making all these later chieftains descended from Owen or Conal gulban (the third son Enna left few or no descendants) was simply a genealogical convenience. Or it could be that DNA as we know it now is simply not capable of making such distinctions in the time period under discussion. There is a missing piece of this equation: O'Donnell DNA. There is little to be found and what is in the databases varies all over the place. There is little or no obvious connection to their kinsmen the O'Dohertys. If I didn't know better I would conclude from DNA that the Dohertys and McLaughlins shared a close descent but the O Cathains did not. John