I have the DYS392=15 value and this appears to have mutated from 14 in Scotland amongst the Kennedys. But it has also appeared in quite separate surnames/groups and I have several 25/25 matches (surnames unknown) originating in both Scotland and Ireland. I am 29 at 389-2 though. My 25/25 matches claim to come from: Ireland 3Scotland 2UK 2England 1Northern Ireland 1 Iain http://www.kennedydna.com > Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 02:07:52 -0400 > From: chantillycarpets@earthlink.net > To: DNA-R1B1C7@rootsweb.com > Subject: [R-M222] M222 slightly off model signature help request > > > <http://us.mc1254.mail.yahoo.com/mc/showMessage;_ylc=X3oDMTBrZ28zdG8wBF9TAzM5ODMwMTAyNwRhYwNGbGFn?sMid=0&fid=Sent&filterBy=&.rand=457779509&midIndex=0&mid=1_76273_AGziimIAAXGtTkiuXwk85GpkyG8&f=1&fromId=frmid2va%40yahoo.com&m=1_76273_AGziimIAAXGtTkiuXwk85GpkyG8%2C1_75893_AGjiimIAAAFFTkhFFQGYrgIUjf0%2C1_75510_AHHiimIAAJatTkajwwyuUDQJp0E%2C1_278_AGjiimIAANsdTkaZ4gQmTUD64OY%2C1_659_AEriimIAAFYtTkXsqwnoVi%2B8Cjs%2C1_1020_AEriimIAABvXTkXj%2BQXX%2Bjv23Hw%2C&sort=date&order=down&startMid=0&hash=13257c9050d03433a295a149a20ca132&.jsrand=4657804&acrumb=JV7QM4b%2FYIa&mcrumb=1xR1rtu2PRO&enc=auto&cmd=msg.flag> > > > I have a question which I've searched for an answer or even a > discussion of in all the reading lists, message boards, papers, and > web sites; and I'm either a total moron or the answers just are not > discussed. > > > Our M222 signature is a bit off model yet remains with-in profile. For > some of the marker variance, the 1 pt off is among those markers which > may mutate faster and/or more easlily than others. > > Our test result shows a dys 392 value at 15 which is yet with-in profile > while also considered off model. This particular marker is considered > one of the more stable markers tested. > > Of further interest to me is this combination of dys 392=15 and > 389-2=28. In all of FTDNA data base and Y search, our test subject > sample has NO exact matches at the 12 marker panel. It fits the M222 > profile as well as has several close matches at 67 (by close I'm > referring to 3 or 4 gd @ 67). One of those matches is with-in the > surname while all the rest are with a majority surname and and a few > others in the same parent project we tested under. > > I suppose what I'm really trying to figure out is whether that dys 392 > value of 15 is a mutation from 14, if the 14 we see as the highest > percentage value consistent with the M222 model signature today (in the > here and now) is the mutation from 15, OR if our test subject's > particular signature may represent a transitional model yet not defined. > > I have seen other R1b's with a DYS 392 = 15 -- not many I might add, and > by enlarge those I have found have a dys 389-2 value at 29 rather than > the 28 as our result shows. > > I did some critical looks at all the papers on line I could find, looked > at all the literature I could understand; found 1 website only which > even mentioned dys 392 = 15, and it was a one liner suggesting, don't > know. The one thing that seems clear is that that particular value > among all the R1b's is well in the minority. I did one of the online > analysis of haplotypes to get a result back that read 50% old Irish, 50% > Ulster Irish what ever that means -- I'm kidding, I know what that > means, but it didn't do a thing to answer my question. > > We joined the genographic project hoping they might shed some light on > the subject. In a word, NOPE! > > I'm trying to entice one of two male 3rd cousins to do a Y12 to see if > the signature is the same. That may or may not shed light on the > subject depending; but I'd guess that since all the male ancestors are > the same up until the last 3 generations that it's likely to be identical. > > Does anyone have any ideas or can point me in the direction of someone? > You notice that I didn't get overly involved in the terminology. I > really believe that we can explain very well in simple terms and that > may also benefit those who are not fully up to speed on the terminology > -- and although I get most of it, it also really is much easier to > understand in basic everyday language. frmid2va@yahoo.com or > chantillycarpets@earthlink.net > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message