Jerry, Gerry, Is there any connection between: Mac Duinnshléibhe and O'Duinn When I check the aforemnetioned URL, I get the following: http://www.isos.dias.ie/libraries/NLI/NLI_MS_G_12/english/index.html Which list the same person as: 1. *Cormac mac Duinn Sleibhi* 2. *Cormac o Duinn Sleibhi* Which could be translated as "Cormac Dunne of the Mountains", as opposed to "Cormac of the Mountain Fort" What say ye?? Cheers, Paul On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@irishtribes.com>wrote: > Thanks, John. And good point about O'Hart. It was a massive work, but (in > my opinion) badly misguided in trying to translate all Irish names to > English phonetic gobbledeegook, thereby breaking the clear, easy link with > the past. I wonder whether that contributed to its mistakes. In the last > week or so, Gerry Hoy and I found another one. In reality, the Mac > Duinnshléibhe sloinne / surnamed family descends from the Ó hEochaidh > sloinne, but O'Hart had it the other way around. > > Many thanks for showing us Mac Firbhisigh's Leabhar na nGenelach on-line. > I did not know it was there. I'm amazed by the quality of the photos, > excellent condition of the manuscript, and beauty of Mac Firbhisigh's > handwriting. You can see how carefully he prepared his work for the > printing press at Louvain. Too bad they didn't go forward with the project. > Buíochas le Dia that we have it finally now in the De Búrca edition (2003) > so we don't have to go nuts with the nodanna (shorthand). > > Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, > Jerry > > > Treibheanna Éireannacha > www.irishtribes.com > > > --- On Tue, 8/23/11, Lochlan@aol.com <Lochlan@aol.com> wrote: > > > From: Lochlan@aol.com <Lochlan@aol.com> > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2011, 8:12 PM > > > > > > In a message dated 8/23/2011 12:50:06 P.M. Central Daylight > > Time, > > jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > writes: > > > > But, from what I can tell, however, MacLysaght did > > not have ready access > > to Leabhar na nGenelach (The Book of > > Genealogies) by Dubhaltach Mac > > Fhirbhisigh. He could only get at parts of it through > > O'Donovan's TRIBES AND > > CUSTOMS OF HY MANY and TRIBES AND CUSTOMS OF HY > > FIACHRACH. After waiting for > > 350 years, Mac Fhirbhisigh's great work was finally > > published by De Búrca > > Books in 2003. So, when Woulfe and MacLysaght > > disagree on a family origin, > > I go to Mac Fhirbhisigh to see who's right. > > > > The MacFirbis genealogies have been online for quite a > > while. > > Un-translated of course with a weak index at the end. > > Not for the faint of heart. > > > > _http://clanmaclochlainn.com/macfirb.htm_ > > > > (http://clanmaclochlainn.com/macfirb.htm) > > > > > > > > > > I read a story once that said that MacLysaght had a > > copy of O'Hart's Irish > > pedigrees open on his desk at all times. > > I don't know if that's true or > > not. It was not comforting to hear. > > > > > > John > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > > subject and the body of the message > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

A Phóil a chara, Go raibh maith agat. / Thank you. We have to resort to Irish grammar to translate these. Donn Sliabh ('Brown Mountain') would be the original warrior-name in the nominative form, the form used when the noun is the subject of a sentence. In those days, the adjective could precede or succeed the noun, unlike today when it usually comes after the noun. The usual genitive form of Donn Sliabh in that period was Duinn Sléibe or Duinn Sléibi ('Of Brown Mountain'), today's Duinnshléibhe. So I would translate Cormac mac Duinn Sleibhi as Cormac (Chariot-Son) son of Brown Mountain and Cormac o Duinn Sleibhi as Cormac grandson of Brown Mountain. To write Cormac Dunn ('Brown Cormac') of the Mountain in that period, we'd need to write either Donn Cormac na Sléibhi/e or Cormac Donn na Sléibhi/e. To write Brown Cormac of a (any old) mountain in that period, we'd need to write either Donn Cormac Sléibhe/i or Cormac Donn Sléibhi/e. To write Brown Cormac of the mountains in that period, we'd write either Donn Cormac na Sléibti/e or Cormac Donn na Sléibte/i. You point out correctly that dún is the nominative of fort and dúin is its genitive. Go raibh sé sin cabhrach. / Hope that's helpful. Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, Jerry Treibheanna Éireannacha www.irishtribes.com --- On Wed, 8/24/11, Paul Conroy <pconroy63@gmail.com> wrote: > From: Paul Conroy <pconroy63@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe and Mac Firbhisigh > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 3:45 PM > Jerry, Gerry, > > Is there any connection between: > Mac Duinnshléibhe and O'Duinn > > When I check the aforemnetioned URL, I get the following: > http://www.isos.dias.ie/libraries/NLI/NLI_MS_G_12/english/index.html > > Which list the same person as: > 1. *Cormac mac Duinn Sleibhi* > 2. *Cormac o Duinn Sleibhi* > > Which could be translated as "Cormac Dunne of the > Mountains", as opposed to > "Cormac of the Mountain Fort" > > What say ye?? > > Cheers, > Paul

Oh aye the noo. Thanks for a breath of sanity. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Paul Conroy Sent: 24 August 2011 20:45 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe and Mac Firbhisigh Jerry, Gerry, Is there any connection between: Mac Duinnshléibhe and O'Duinn When I check the aforemnetioned URL, I get the following: http://www.isos.dias.ie/libraries/NLI/NLI_MS_G_12/english/index.html Which list the same person as: 1. *Cormac mac Duinn Sleibhi* 2. *Cormac o Duinn Sleibhi* Which could be translated as "Cormac Dunne of the Mountains", as opposed to "Cormac of the Mountain Fort" What say ye?? Cheers, Paul On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@irishtribes.com>wrote: > Thanks, John. And good point about O'Hart. It was a massive work, but (in > my opinion) badly misguided in trying to translate all Irish names to > English phonetic gobbledeegook, thereby breaking the clear, easy link with > the past. I wonder whether that contributed to its mistakes. In the last > week or so, Gerry Hoy and I found another one. In reality, the Mac > Duinnshléibhe sloinne / surnamed family descends from the Ó hEochaidh > sloinne, but O'Hart had it the other way around. > > Many thanks for showing us Mac Firbhisigh's Leabhar na nGenelach on-line. > I did not know it was there. I'm amazed by the quality of the photos, > excellent condition of the manuscript, and beauty of Mac Firbhisigh's > handwriting. You can see how carefully he prepared his work for the > printing press at Louvain. Too bad they didn't go forward with the project. > Buíochas le Dia that we have it finally now in the De Búrca edition (2003) > so we don't have to go nuts with the nodanna (shorthand). > > Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, > Jerry > > > Treibheanna Éireannacha > www.irishtribes.com > > > --- On Tue, 8/23/11, Lochlan@aol.com <Lochlan@aol.com> wrote: > > > From: Lochlan@aol.com <Lochlan@aol.com> > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2011, 8:12 PM > > > > > > In a message dated 8/23/2011 12:50:06 P.M. Central Daylight > > Time, > > jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > writes: > > > > But, from what I can tell, however, MacLysaght did > > not have ready access > > to Leabhar na nGenelach (The Book of > > Genealogies) by Dubhaltach Mac > > Fhirbhisigh. He could only get at parts of it through > > O'Donovan's TRIBES AND > > CUSTOMS OF HY MANY and TRIBES AND CUSTOMS OF HY > > FIACHRACH. After waiting for > > 350 years, Mac Fhirbhisigh's great work was finally > > published by De Búrca > > Books in 2003. So, when Woulfe and MacLysaght > > disagree on a family origin, > > I go to Mac Fhirbhisigh to see who's right. > > > > The MacFirbis genealogies have been online for quite a > > while. > > Un-translated of course with a weak index at the end. > > Not for the faint of heart. > > > > _http://clanmaclochlainn.com/macfirb.htm_ > > > > (http://clanmaclochlainn.com/macfirb.htm) > > > > > > > > > > I read a story once that said that MacLysaght had a > > copy of O'Hart's Irish > > pedigrees open on his desk at all times. > > I don't know if that's true or > > not. It was not comforting to hear. > > > > > > John > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > > subject and the body of the message > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message