Bernard a chara, In the last few days on this list, modern historians Byrne and Mac Niocaill, and Mac Fhirbhisigh in the 17th century. Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, Jerry -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 12:09 PM To: dna-r1b1c7 Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí Néill? Jerry, Which experts? You may have seen John's posting as to the origin of Cenél nEoghain and Cenél Conaill. I've seen the arguement that Eoghain and Conaill (like Maine) are missing from early Irish sources (i.e. the lives of St Patrick). > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 10:16:08 -0400 > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí Néill? > > Go raibh maith agat, a Bernard. Inseoidh am an scéal. / Thank you, > Bernard. Time will tell the story. > > In the meantime, the experts seem to think that the evidence of the > manuscripts casts doubt on the genealogies of Cenél Maine and Uí > Mhaine rather than on the genealogies of Cenél nEoghain and Cenél Conaill. > > Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, > Jerry R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jerry, I flipped through MacNiocaill work and didn't find any reference questioning the origin of Cenel Maine. Mac Fhirbhisigh questioned one family? Father Walsh (the specialist on Westmeath) question Brecaighe origin, but not the Cenel Maine in general. No comments from Dobbs, so comes down to Brynes and his comment about conflicting pedigrees of Aed mac Brenainn? On the subject of M222 relation with the Ui Neill, where are the M222+ O'Kellys from? Sil Aed Slaine? > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 12:24:46 -0400 > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí Néill? > > Bernard a chara, > > In the last few days on this list, modern historians Byrne and Mac Niocaill, > and Mac Fhirbhisigh in the 17th century. > > Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, > Jerry > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 12:09 PM > To: dna-r1b1c7 > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí Néill? > > > > Jerry, > > Which experts? You may have seen John's posting as to the origin of Cenél > nEoghain and Cenél Conaill. I've seen the arguement that Eoghain and Conaill > (like Maine) are missing from early Irish sources (i.e. the lives of St > Patrick). > > > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 10:16:08 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí Néill? > > > > Go raibh maith agat, a Bernard. Inseoidh am an scéal. / Thank you, > > Bernard. Time will tell the story. > > > > In the meantime, the experts seem to think that the evidence of the > > manuscripts casts doubt on the genealogies of Cenél Maine and Uí > > Mhaine rather than on the genealogies of Cenél nEoghain and Cenél Conaill. > > > > Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, > > Jerry > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Bernard a chara, Working on a different family origin right now. On the Maine question, I have nothing invested in the issue and don't have the time to check Mac Niocaill. But if Mac Fhirbhisigh, an individual trained in the scoileanna filidheachta and scoileanna seanchasa of the early 17th century, and therefore fully and completely trained in the genealogies of the Uí Néill, had a problem with the genealogy of the Fir Cell and used that problem to malign the Uí Dhálaigh as upstarts, then I think we should pay more than casual attention to his reservations. At any rate, as I said, time will tell. Apologies that I can't add anything more to this discussion at this time. Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, Jerry Treibheanna Éireannacha www.irishtribes.com --- On Sat, 8/20/11, Bernard Morgan <bernardmorgan@hotmail.com> wrote: > From: Bernard Morgan <bernardmorgan@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí Néill? > To: "dna-r1b1c7" <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com> > Date: Saturday, August 20, 2011, 1:02 PM > > Jerry, > > I flipped through MacNiocaill work and didn't find any > reference questioning the origin of Cenel Maine.  Mac > Fhirbhisigh questioned one family? Father Walsh (the > specialist on Westmeath) question Brecaighe origin, but not > the Cenel Maine in general. No comments from Dobbs, so comes > down to Brynes and his comment about conflicting pedigrees > of Aed mac Brenainn? > > On the subject of M222 relation with the Ui Neill, where > are the M222+ O'Kellys from? Sil Aed Slaine? > > > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 12:24:46 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí > Néill? > > > > Bernard a chara, > > > > In the last few days on this list, modern historians > Byrne and Mac Niocaill, > > and Mac Fhirbhisigh in the 17th century. > > > > Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, > > Jerry > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 12:09 PM > > To: dna-r1b1c7 > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí > Néill? > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > Which experts? You may have seen John's posting as to > the origin of Cenél > > nEoghain and Cenél Conaill. I've seen the arguement > that Eoghain and Conaill > > (like Maine) are missing from early Irish sources > (i.e. the lives of St > > Patrick). > > > > > > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 10:16:08 -0400 > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí > Néill? > > > > > > Go raibh maith agat, a Bernard. Inseoidh am an > scéal. / Thank you, > > > Bernard. Time will tell the story. > > > > > > In the meantime, the experts seem to think that > the evidence of the > > > manuscripts casts doubt on the genealogies of > Cenél Maine and Uí > > > Mhaine rather than on the genealogies of Cenél > nEoghain and Cenél Conaill. > > > > > > Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, > > > Jerry > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >     >          >            >   > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >