Okay I'll really go out on a limb and suggest that Devenny, formerly DeVenny was perhaps DeVeni or " of the Venicones" Scott On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 3:00 AM, <dna-r1b1c7-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Venicones (Lochlan@aol.com) > 2. Re: Venicones (Don Milligan) > 3. Re: Venicones (Lochlan@aol.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 20:23:34 -0400 (EDT) > From: Lochlan@aol.com > Subject: [R-M222] Venicones > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <2e769.7c9fd71d.3b7f0706@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > I just stumbled on a well done history web site that mentions the Venicones > and Venicnii of Scotland and Donegal. > > _http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesBritain/RomanVenicones01.htm_ > (http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesBritain/RomanVenicones01.htm) > > This writer definitely sees a connection between the Venicones of the > eastern lowlands of Scotland and the Venicnii of NW Ireland (Donegal). He > further believes the names are derived from the Veneti of Gaul. The author > gives a completely different interpretation of the name from other writers > I've > seen which deduce the > -cones in Venicones from Cu or hound and Veni from Feni. > > The main reason I've always found this interesting is the fact that M222 is > so prevalent in NW Ireland and especially in Donegal. The names date from > Ptolemy's maps of Ireland and Scotland c. 150 AD. Irish historians tell > us the sons of Niall weren't even in NW Ireland at that date - supposedly > they migrated northward from their base in Connacht during or after the > time > of Niall (c. 400-450 AD). But perhaps Irish history isn't accurate. > > I found the name Venicones in particular interesting because of the > possibility that -cones somehow referred to Cu or hounds in Irish - which > would > be Con in the genitive form found in a construction like feni (people) and > Con (of the hounds). And wondered if that could possibly have something > to > do with Conn, the ancestor of the Ui Neill and Connachta in Ireland, the > famous Conn of the Hundred Battles in Irish mythology. If this author is > right than that possibility seems fairly remote. > > But we still are left with the oddity of two probably related tribes in > Ireland and Scotland and the fact that the major hotspot for M222 in > Ireland > is found in the old territory of the Venicnii. > > I hesitated to make too much of this previously because until now no major > scholar or site connected the two tribal names. Many over the years had > noticed the similarity but none were willing to venture an opinion on > whether > both were the same tribal name. > > The author believes the Veneti, after their defeat in Gaul by the Romans, > could have come to both Scotland and Ireland in ships. > > "One could easily postulate that the survivors of the Roman conquest of the > Veneti in Gaul climbed into their boats and settled in Fife and Donnegal. > And the rebuilt tribe that occupied Fife continued the fight." > > According to the author, the territory of the Venicones later was known as > Verturiones (Fortriu), > > "Once beaten in Fife by the renewed Roman attack on them, some of them > apparently joined the Roman side, and were later rewarded with the > Deceangli/Gangani territory in what is now north-west Wales, which the new > owners > promptly named after their tribe." > > "circa 390 - At the request of local Roman government, possibly by Coel Hen > (Old King Cole - see the Kings of Northern Britain), a branch of Romanised > Venicones (Veneti) move from Manau in the northern Gododdin (Votadini) > kingdom, to the north and west coast of what is now Wales. The territory > is > given to them on the condition they expel the Irish (Scotti) and defend > it." > > He ends with: > > "One can envision a possible migration of Veneti from the Vistula by sea to > Armorica. Then a flight of survivors from Armorica to Fife in Scotland and > Donnegal in Ireland. Then Romanised Veneti of Fife move into western and > northern Wales and found the kingdoms of Gwynedd and Ceredigion." > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 18:32:38 -0700 > From: "Don Milligan" <donmilligan@comcast.net> > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Venicones > To: <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com> > Cc: MARK MILLIGAN <wombat6926@yahoo.ca>, DONMILLIGAN@comcast.net > Message-ID: <008e01cc5e0f$e2b11c00$a8135400$@comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW "THINKING OUT OF THE BOX" COMES MORE EASILY TO > THE > "ANCIENT CELTS", LIKE SOME OF US! > > A FEW YEARS AGO, I EXCHANGED SOME EMAILS WITH ALAN, SUPPORTING THE IDEA > THAT > IT LOOKED LIKE THE "VENICONES" OF BOTH IRELAND AND SCOTLAND WERE SOMEHOW > CONNECTED. > > I RECALL ALAN AND I DISCUSSED IT, AND LIKELY SHARED COPIES OF SOME OF OUR > EMAILS WITH YOU. > > NOW, DUE TO OUR "EVOLUTION IN THINKING, GROWTH, AND DISCOVERIES", WE CAN > SEE > THAT SOME OF US WERE "BEATING AROUND THE BUSH" OF RECOGNIZING EARLY M-222+ > FOLK, IN SCOTLAND, WHO WERE CONNECTED WITH EARLY M-222+ IN IRELAND! PLUS, > THE POSSIBLY OF M-222+ AMONG SOME OF THE WELSH TRIBES!! GOD LOVE US!! > > AH, " I LOVE THE SMELL OF NAPALM IN THE MORNING", A PLAY ON THE MOVIE > EXPRESSION" "AH I LOVE THE SMELL OF NAPALM" IN THE MORNING, FROM THAT > FAMOUS FILM "APOCALYPSE NOW"! :-) :-) > > DON M > > -----Original Message----- > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lochlan@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 5:24 PM > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: [R-M222] Venicones > > I just stumbled on a well done history web site that mentions the Venicones > and Venicnii of Scotland and Donegal. > > _http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesBritain/RomanVenicones01.htm_ > (http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesBritain/RomanVenicones01.htm) > > This writer definitely sees a connection between the Venicones of the > eastern lowlands of Scotland and the Venicnii of NW Ireland (Donegal). He > further believes the names are derived from the Veneti of Gaul. The author > gives a completely different interpretation of the name from other writers > I've seen which deduce the -cones in Venicones from Cu or hound and Veni > from Feni. > > The main reason I've always found this interesting is the fact that M222 is > so prevalent in NW Ireland and especially in Donegal. The names date from > Ptolemy's maps of Ireland and Scotland c. 150 AD. Irish historians tell us > the sons of Niall weren't even in NW Ireland at that date - supposedly they > migrated northward from their base in Connacht during or after the time of > Niall (c. 400-450 AD). But perhaps Irish history isn't accurate. > > I found the name Venicones in particular interesting because of the > possibility that -cones somehow referred to Cu or hounds in Irish - which > would be Con in the genitive form found in a construction like feni > (people) > and Con (of the hounds). And wondered if that could possibly have > something to do with Conn, the ancestor of the Ui Neill and Connachta in > Ireland, the famous Conn of the Hundred Battles in Irish mythology. If > this author is right than that possibility seems fairly remote. > > But we still are left with the oddity of two probably related tribes in > Ireland and Scotland and the fact that the major hotspot for M222 in > Ireland > is found in the old territory of the Venicnii. > > I hesitated to make too much of this previously because until now no major > scholar or site connected the two tribal names. Many over the years had > noticed the similarity but none were willing to venture an opinion on > whether both were the same tribal name. > > The author believes the Veneti, after their defeat in Gaul by the Romans, > could have come to both Scotland and Ireland in ships. > > "One could easily postulate that the survivors of the Roman conquest of the > Veneti in Gaul climbed into their boats and settled in Fife and Donnegal. > And the rebuilt tribe that occupied Fife continued the fight." > > According to the author, the territory of the Venicones later was known as > Verturiones (Fortriu), > > "Once beaten in Fife by the renewed Roman attack on them, some of them > apparently joined the Roman side, and were later rewarded with the > Deceangli/Gangani territory in what is now north-west Wales, which the new > owners promptly named after their tribe." > > > > "circa 390 - At the request of local Roman government, possibly by Coel Hen > (Old King Cole - see the Kings of Northern Britain), a branch of Romanised > Venicones (Veneti) move from Manau in the northern Gododdin (Votadini) > kingdom, to the north and west coast of what is now Wales. The territory > is > given to them on the condition they expel the Irish (Scotti) and defend > it." > > He ends with: > > "One can envision a possible migration of Veneti from the Vistula by sea to > Armorica. Then a flight of survivors from Armorica to Fife in Scotland and > Donnegal in Ireland. Then Romanised Veneti of Fife move into western and > northern Wales and found the kingdoms of Gwynedd and Ceredigion." > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 23:29:55 -0400 (EDT) > From: Lochlan@aol.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Venicones > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <44278.e727ba9.3b7f32b3@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > In a message dated 8/18/2011 8:35:48 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > donmilligan@comcast.net writes: > > A FEW YEARS AGO, I EXCHANGED SOME EMAILS WITH ALAN, SUPPORTING THE IDEA > THAT > IT LOOKED LIKE THE "VENICONES" OF BOTH IRELAND AND SCOTLAND WERE SOMEHOW > CONNECTED. > > I RECALL ALAN AND I DISCUSSED IT, AND LIKELY SHARED COPIES OF SOME OF OUR > EMAILS WITH YOU. > > Don, I remember Alan and yourself discussing the Venicones and Venicniis. > In fact you are the ones who brought it to my attention in the first > place. I think I didn't back it wholeheartedly at the time because it > didn't fit > with the Irish history I knew of the sons of Niall. But now that I think > about it more I'm not sure. Maybe the sons of Niall had no need to move > northwest into Donegal because they were already there. > > > John > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 249 > ****************************************** >