In reply to John: The link sent to you was in regard to a question that you posed to me about an irregularity you believed you viewed on some Scottish Clan web site. I cautioned you at the time that not all the information found in some of these web sites was either accurate nor full of explanations, nor the histories complete etc. and I stated that I would send you some information. I've some which I have intended to pdf to you but haven't gotten around to it yet. The question/comment you posed to me had to do with Scottish Clans. *I simply sent you a link which has interesting information*, however I did *not *discuss or mention either Irish Septs *NORanything else Irish*. So, I am perplexed regarding your comment below. In regard to the link that you sent me, it sent me to an advertisement. I never got into the page you intended for me to look at. Be that as it may, regarding your comments other, frankly, I believe that if you are going to comment on any one's posts that you keep the post in context rather than pull a paragraph here or there to reply to. In general I have found some of your replies using this method missing the point of the posts (not just mine), sometimes nearly confrontational, and otherwise also contradicting your self in in regard to conversations elsewhere. The point here is, it could very well be that the reason you may be confused or not understand someone's premise is that you have this habit of pulling a paragraph here or there out of someone's communication thereby taking it out of context and then ambush the person with what I would characterize your authority to disagree. Well it is perfectly fine for you to disagree and share your opinions as I would assume everyone else in the group is entitled as well, but there are better ways to go about it. I believe we all are interested, obviously, in M222 or we would not be in the group. The comment of not caring was not that I don't care about *learning the truth as I am *(as I believe all of us are), but the fact that *none of us know the truths yet*. You and Bill yourselves have commented that the current popular opinions are lacking, made too hastily, and there is lots of work to be done in the hope to come to any conclusion. *If you yet agree with yourself, well you will note that I have consistently agreed with you.* But in the discussion regarding origins of M222 which many suspect yet none are sure (*even Wilson has qualified his *enthusiasm) among some there is such emotional investment in it being in Ireland that all further investigation seems not even a matter of consideration. For the record, I am not anti-Nial. I am not anti anything beyond to jumping to conclusions on evidence which is not yet complete. I believe that any and all methods of investigation are valid and should be employed; however, I also believe that many of these answers are going to come from a *comprehensive look *at the *values revealed by all the testing results to date* coupled with *more testing which need be done, broadening the geographical areas to include those environs other than where we currently find the highest concentrations,* and *following migration patterns of the ancestors of the currently tested * M222 carriers. As an example, our M222 matches are bringing up environs of origin other than Ireland and Scotland. Switzerland most mentioned other than Scotland first followed by Ireland, which percentage wise when considering the numbers tested claiming Ireland is statistically the same as that of Switzerland in the ancestral origin matches. So why is that? Did an Irishman or Scot move to Switzerland and procreate leaving M222 behind, or is M222 there because it may have been left when the migrations east to west were occurring? I do not know the answer to that, but I would think it would be good to investigate it further. Hypothetically, if it were left behind during east to west migrations, then quite likely it is even older than what you & Bill estimated when you suggested it was formed up in Scotland. Other M222 carriers are getting M222 matches from France, Germany and Switzerland and Scandinavia as well. Once the certain migration & residence data is exhausted, beyond a certain point migrations nearly have to be extrapolated and assumed to some extent, and likely the surname analysis will help define some of those environs. I hope this clarifies thing for you...Susan On 8/20/2011 9:54 PM, Lochlan@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/20/2011 1:10:22 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > chantillycarpets@earthlink.net writes: > > You should find this site interesting & informative. > > http://www.scotshistoryonline.co.uk/scottish-clan-septs.html > > That is very much old hat. The link I sent you on Scottish surnames > said much the same thing. > There is a difference between Irish septs and Scottish clans and their > supposed septs. You would know that if you studied Irish history and > studied a few of the Irish sept DNA projects. I'd recommend all of > the Trinity college articles on the M222 web site as a starting > point. I find your anti-Niall rants ill informed and tedious. No one > in Ireland really cares if they are descended from Niall or not. I > don't. But that's what the genealogies say so if you'll pardon us we > will continue to investigate the possibility. > John > >