Hi, Susan, Great story, and thank you for writing it! I am M222 and have a surname which could be either Irish or Scottish, and so I fit right into that story, too. Doug On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Susan Hedeen < chantillycarpets@earthlink.net> wrote: > and don't ask for the citations on this as my Celtic descended brain is > as the ancestors more memory and mouth than the written word-- as far as > keeping bits and pieced of written trivia which may come in handy at > times like this. > > Let's go back to a couple of premises, that M222 is a Celtic signature. > We are entering into an interesting discussion of the Veneti of Gaul > > Could indeed we be referring to the same tribe known as the Galatians -- > the famous Galatians who set up camp in Turkey after attempting to > conquer Greece and well aware also of Roman Power. > > Let's extrapolate a bit with some of the other legends involving these > Celts. One of Brits best known resources at the time was tin, and tin > mining and trade was going on prior to the Roman conquest. What was the > best mode of transport? Boat. > > These tribes were feudal and cooperative, and according to some > literature had some fairly vast trade routes among themselves that > extended in time also previous to the Roman conquest. > > M222 was not restricted to NW Ireland and lowland Scotland; however at > this juncture in time (the genetic DNA testing era) the testing pool > reveals the highest concentration from tested subjects who either yet > reside in those environs or claim those environs as their genealogical > point of origin -- that place of their anecdotal family stories -- that > place from which their oldest know ancestor came from. > > There are remnants of it, however coming from those who claim other > environs as their ancestral homes: Switzerland, France, and more also > places where these Celtic tribes had settlements and trade routes. > > What do people do at times when extinction seems a possibility? They > MIGRATE. The more remote the location generally the longer they settle > provided they can manage enough food to survive. What do they do when > the environs they migrate to become over populated and sustaining the > increased population becomes difficult? A portion of the population > breaks off and MIGRATES. Do they lose sight of one another? Over time; > however in the short term they help one another in Trade. > > These themes are common among the various Celtic tribes. Where is the > last bastion of migration? Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Briton. Where yet > are the highest concentrations? The more remote of those locations. > > Did M222 form up in Ireland? I agree with Bill, I don't think so, but > it flourished there. Did it form up in Scotland? I'd suggest previous > to that. The flow between Scotland and Ireland was steady and back and > forth. Deciding that question is like the chicken and the egg. Even > those tribes said to be indigenous migrated in, but because they were > there when the next bunch of migrants marched in, they then became > indigenous. > > Why are the concentrations today so much higher in Ireland than anywhere > else statistically? Think about the migration stories again. We know > that they migrated back and forth between Ireland and Scotland in > addition to raiding, trading wives and all the like in all the various > lore and legends. Where was the last place the Scots who bailed out to > at the time the English were dissolving the clans? They went to > Ulster. Where did the go after that? The American Colonies, Canada, > Australia, New Zealand -- and some stayed in Ulster along side of their > ancient ancestral tribes long forgotten as such. > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you, Doug, it's nice to be complimented for sharing a bit of reality and sanity. Truly, From this person whose descendant families on 8 sides now have gone through the rigors of DNA testing, as a McConnaughey who's ancestors all were all Celtic, not an Anglo or Saxon or Scandinavian in the lot -- a full born blue eyed blonde haired American Celtic MUTT, Marie, I thought we all ventured into these activities to learn some truths and have intelligent discussions regarding theories and possibilities, and have a bit of fun rather than be emotionally territorial about what we think we may know and resort to name calling and the like. From some of the stuff I 've read on this board, there truly are some very interesting and intelligent people who contribute from time to time. Is not one as entitled to his/her own opinions as the next whether or not anyone or everyone agrees? Paul, I don't know why either the representation is not broader. I haven't been in this group long enough to know, but I actually applied to join, and I'm wondering if those others who also fall into M222 either do not know about the group or don't care to join. I agree with your premise that it would be good to have broad representation. I also belong to the Ireland YDNA project, and there are numerous individuals in that project who fit the M222 profile who seem to be naming environs other than Ulster or Scotland. Most of these projects are elective, so I'm thinking that none are being excluded. Hope everyone has a great eve. Susan On 8/19/2011 10:54 AM, tuulen wrote: > Hi, Susan, > > Great story, and thank you for writing it! > > I am M222 and have a surname which could be either Irish or Scottish, > and so I fit right into that story, too. > > Doug > > > On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Susan Hedeen > <chantillycarpets@earthlink.net > <mailto:chantillycarpets@earthlink.net>> wrote: > > and don't ask for the citations on this as my Celtic descended > brain is > as the ancestors more memory and mouth than the written word-- as > far as > keeping bits and pieced of written trivia which may come in handy at > times like this. > > Let's go back to a couple of premises, that M222 is a Celtic > signature. > We are entering into an interesting discussion of the Veneti of Gaul > > Could indeed we be referring to the same tribe known as the > Galatians -- > the famous Galatians who set up camp in Turkey after attempting to > conquer Greece and well aware also of Roman Power. > > Let's extrapolate a bit with some of the other legends involving these > Celts. One of Brits best known resources at the time was tin, and tin > mining and trade was going on prior to the Roman conquest. What > was the > best mode of transport? Boat. > > These tribes were feudal and cooperative, and according to some > literature had some fairly vast trade routes among themselves that > extended in time also previous to the Roman conquest. > > M222 was not restricted to NW Ireland and lowland Scotland; however at > this juncture in time (the genetic DNA testing era) the testing pool > reveals the highest concentration from tested subjects who either yet > reside in those environs or claim those environs as their genealogical > point of origin -- that place of their anecdotal family stories -- > that > place from which their oldest know ancestor came from. > > There are remnants of it, however coming from those who claim other > environs as their ancestral homes: Switzerland, France, and more also > places where these Celtic tribes had settlements and trade routes. > > What do people do at times when extinction seems a possibility? They > MIGRATE. The more remote the location generally the longer they > settle > provided they can manage enough food to survive. What do they do when > the environs they migrate to become over populated and sustaining the > increased population becomes difficult? A portion of the population > breaks off and MIGRATES. Do they lose sight of one another? Over > time; > however in the short term they help one another in Trade. > > These themes are common among the various Celtic tribes. Where is the > last bastion of migration? Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Briton. > Where yet > are the highest concentrations? The more remote of those locations. > > Did M222 form up in Ireland? I agree with Bill, I don't think so, but > it flourished there. Did it form up in Scotland? I'd suggest > previous > to that. The flow between Scotland and Ireland was steady and > back and > forth. Deciding that question is like the chicken and the egg. Even > those tribes said to be indigenous migrated in, but because they were > there when the next bunch of migrants marched in, they then became > indigenous. > > Why are the concentrations today so much higher in Ireland than > anywhere > else statistically? Think about the migration stories again. We know > that they migrated back and forth between Ireland and Scotland in > addition to raiding, trading wives and all the like in all the various > lore and legends. Where was the last place the Scots who bailed > out to > at the time the English were dissolving the clans? They went to > Ulster. Where did the go after that? The American Colonies, Canada, > Australia, New Zealand -- and some stayed in Ulster along side of > their > ancient ancestral tribes long forgotten as such. > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > <mailto:DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com> with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > the message > >

Susan, Oh I didn't mean to suggest that they were being excluded in any way. However all the early press on this haplogroup and it's associated SNP mentions the O'Neill family and their descendants, and Northern Ireland and Scotland, so people with no ancestry from these areas might feel that this project doesn't apply to them at all. I think at the very least that the current map on the project page should state that it just represent the area of greatest currently known concentration. I'd also like to see the Trinity maps displayed, and/or any of the other maps produced on other blogs/fora giving a much more extensive area of coverage. For instance there was a suggestion on the R-L21 Project some months back that parts of Germany may be up to 5% M222+, if that's true it changes everything! I've no idea where M222 originated, but I'd speculate it was among the Belgae tribes of the Rhine... On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Susan Hedeen < chantillycarpets@earthlink.net> wrote: > Thank you, Doug, it's nice to be complimented for sharing a bit of > reality and sanity. > > Truly, From this person whose descendant families on 8 sides now have > gone through the rigors of DNA testing, as a McConnaughey who's > ancestors all were all Celtic, not an Anglo or Saxon or Scandinavian in > the lot -- a full born blue eyed blonde haired American Celtic MUTT, > Marie, I thought we all ventured into these activities to learn some > truths and have intelligent discussions regarding theories and > possibilities, and have a bit of fun rather than be emotionally > territorial about what we think we may know and resort to name calling > and the like. > > From some of the stuff I 've read on this board, there truly are some > very interesting and intelligent people who contribute from time to > time. Is not one as entitled to his/her own opinions as the next > whether or not anyone or everyone agrees? > > Paul, I don't know why either the representation is not broader. I > haven't been in this group long enough to know, but I actually applied > to join, and I'm wondering if those others who also fall into M222 > either do not know about the group or don't care to join. I agree with > your premise that it would be good to have broad representation. > > I also belong to the Ireland YDNA project, and there are numerous > individuals in that project who fit the M222 profile who seem to be > naming environs other than Ulster or Scotland. Most of these projects > are elective, so I'm thinking that none are being excluded. > > Hope everyone has a great eve. Susan > > > > On 8/19/2011 10:54 AM, tuulen wrote: > > Hi, Susan, > > > > Great story, and thank you for writing it! > > > > I am M222 and have a surname which could be either Irish or Scottish, > > and so I fit right into that story, too. > > > > Doug > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Susan Hedeen > > <chantillycarpets@earthlink.net > > <mailto:chantillycarpets@earthlink.net>> wrote: > > > > and don't ask for the citations on this as my Celtic descended > > brain is > > as the ancestors more memory and mouth than the written word-- as > > far as > > keeping bits and pieced of written trivia which may come in handy at > > times like this. > > > > Let's go back to a couple of premises, that M222 is a Celtic > > signature. > > We are entering into an interesting discussion of the Veneti of Gaul > > > > Could indeed we be referring to the same tribe known as the > > Galatians -- > > the famous Galatians who set up camp in Turkey after attempting to > > conquer Greece and well aware also of Roman Power. > > > > Let's extrapolate a bit with some of the other legends involving > these > > Celts. One of Brits best known resources at the time was tin, and > tin > > mining and trade was going on prior to the Roman conquest. What > > was the > > best mode of transport? Boat. > > > > These tribes were feudal and cooperative, and according to some > > literature had some fairly vast trade routes among themselves that > > extended in time also previous to the Roman conquest. > > > > M222 was not restricted to NW Ireland and lowland Scotland; however > at > > this juncture in time (the genetic DNA testing era) the testing pool > > reveals the highest concentration from tested subjects who either yet > > reside in those environs or claim those environs as their > genealogical > > point of origin -- that place of their anecdotal family stories -- > > that > > place from which their oldest know ancestor came from. > > > > There are remnants of it, however coming from those who claim other > > environs as their ancestral homes: Switzerland, France, and more > also > > places where these Celtic tribes had settlements and trade routes. > > > > What do people do at times when extinction seems a possibility? They > > MIGRATE. The more remote the location generally the longer they > > settle > > provided they can manage enough food to survive. What do they do > when > > the environs they migrate to become over populated and sustaining the > > increased population becomes difficult? A portion of the population > > breaks off and MIGRATES. Do they lose sight of one another? Over > > time; > > however in the short term they help one another in Trade. > > > > These themes are common among the various Celtic tribes. Where is > the > > last bastion of migration? Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Briton. > > Where yet > > are the highest concentrations? The more remote of those locations. > > > > Did M222 form up in Ireland? I agree with Bill, I don't think so, > but > > it flourished there. Did it form up in Scotland? I'd suggest > > previous > > to that. The flow between Scotland and Ireland was steady and > > back and > > forth. Deciding that question is like the chicken and the egg. Even > > those tribes said to be indigenous migrated in, but because they were > > there when the next bunch of migrants marched in, they then became > > indigenous. > > > > Why are the concentrations today so much higher in Ireland than > > anywhere > > else statistically? Think about the migration stories again. We > know > > that they migrated back and forth between Ireland and Scotland in > > addition to raiding, trading wives and all the like in all the > various > > lore and legends. Where was the last place the Scots who bailed > > out to > > at the time the English were dissolving the clans? They went to > > Ulster. Where did the go after that? The American Colonies, Canada, > > Australia, New Zealand -- and some stayed in Ulster along side of > > their > > ancient ancestral tribes long forgotten as such. > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > <mailto:DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com> with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > > the message > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >