Yes, Linda, but slang usage in Scotland is not relevant to historically correct usage in America, Scotland, and Ireland. Unless one wishes to avoid being beaten up by Scottish yobs <grin>. To establish what was used historically, one consults records. The Scotch Irish Society of America is a scholarly organization that has actually studied this and published its findings. The individuals conducting the research have excellent academic backgrounds and have spent their lives doing research like this. They've found plenty of usage of the term "Scotch Irish" in colonial America. Not "Scots Irish" (which actually is pronounced oddly for a Scots-speaker. Ie see the morphing of Fish to English Fitch, Samson to Sampson, etc, etc, etc). The earliest usage of the term appears to be Elizabethan and was applied to the galloglass who were moving to Ireland from Scotland. The Elizabeth court called them "Scotch Irish". Among them would have been the McDonald clan but these days you can find galloglass DNA in every county in Ireland. These folk were largely not the ancestors of today's so-called Scotch Irish, whose Scots ancestors (many have Irish, English, Welsh, French, Dutch, German, etc ancestors) migrated after 1600. Most after 1650 (settler populations in most of Ulster entirely wiped out in Rising and replaced by newcomers), and they came from the lowlands, not the western Isles. So here we have a switch in who was meant by the term "Scotch Irish'. Scottish church records are full of the word "Scotch" used for people, not whiskey. The Scots used it themselves as a common moniker for themselves. I've done plenty of Scots genealogy and seen it myself all through their own records. A nyway, I continue to use Scotch Irish and will until the yobs beat up the aged academics and force them to erase 'scotch' and 'scotch irish' from all the historic documents. Americans don't look to the English to define the 'correct' name for us Americans (I say one day after the 4th!)...so why would anyone in the homelands of the Scotch Irish let the Glaswegians dictate their 'proper' ethnic name? Someone's putting one over on you, that's why. Today's Scot is busy adopting Englishisms and "Scot" is one of them. Along with all kinds of glottal stops between syllables. The loss of Scots pronunciation of surnames is tracable through 19th century Scots parish records. 'Respectable' people spoke their surnames the English way while the low class hillbillies stuck to the old ways. Same as in the US today where regional accents are disappearing. However avoid sharing this with Scots you don't know as they sometimes get violent <grin>. My own Scots grandmother could not pronounce the surname of her grandmother (Mennoch). It is difficult if not impossible to do in English. It suggests how much of old Scots pronunciation was lost by the general lowlander population by the late 1900s.... As near as I can tell this surname is indiginous to the Stirling area -- but who remembers Gaelic was once spoken there? Linda Merle F rom: Linda < lindaspc4mc@hughes.net > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Nuffie and hillbilly To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com This reply to Charles' latest post. You are certainly correct when you express an opinion that people are far too easily "offended" and quick to try and change other people or "fix" other people. This political correctness has far exceeded the boundary between my nose and my face speaking personally. The responders to your post should check out a few of the Scotland area boards for a lesson in slang and the currently accepted use of same all over Scotland. Dialects easily help to determine from whence many ancestors came from to these shores. Forever a ridge runner from the hills and hollers of Tennessee. Linda McKee

I have a searchable version of what's called the Lamont Papers, compiled from public documents dated from around 1240 to around 1930. The word 'Scots' occurs 67 times in the first 176 pages. The word 'Scotch' doesn't occur at all. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of lmerle@comcast.net Sent: 05 July 2011 14:40 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] Nuffie and hillbilly Yes, Linda, but slang usage in Scotland is not relevant to historically correct usage in America, Scotland, and Ireland. Unless one wishes to avoid being beaten up by Scottish yobs <grin>. To establish what was used historically, one consults records. The Scotch Irish Society of America is a scholarly organization that has actually studied this and published its findings. The individuals conducting the research have excellent academic backgrounds and have spent their lives doing research like this. They've found plenty of usage of the term "Scotch Irish" in colonial America. Not "Scots Irish" (which actually is pronounced oddly for a Scots-speaker. Ie see the morphing of Fish to English Fitch, Samson to Sampson, etc, etc, etc). The earliest usage of the term appears to be Elizabethan and was applied to the galloglass who were moving to Ireland from Scotland. The Elizabeth court called them "Scotch Irish". Among them would have been the McDonald clan but these days you can find galloglass DNA in every county in Ireland. These folk were largely not the ancestors of today's so-called Scotch Irish, whose Scots ancestors (many have Irish, English, Welsh, French, Dutch, German, etc ancestors) migrated after 1600. Most after 165! 0 (settler populations in most of Ulster entirely wiped out in Rising and replaced by newcomers), and they came from the lowlands, not the western Isles. So here we have a switch in who was meant by the term "Scotch Irish'. Scottish church records are full of the word "Scotch" used for people, not whiskey. The Scots used it themselves as a common moniker for themselves. I've done plenty of Scots genealogy and seen it myself all through their own records.