This may be a bit off-topic, but I have a question about church birth records in Ireland (specifically Armagh) in the early 18th century. In the case of a woman who has remarried, would it be normal / uncommon / rare for her to give her former married surname on her children's birth records, rather than her original birth surname? I haven't been able to get an informed opinion on this, so I hope one of you out there may be able to help. Thanks Geoff Melloy -----Original Message----- From: john.loughney@gmail.com Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 8:02 AM To: Lawrence Dill ; dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] Womens' names in Ireland Lawrence, Couple of things to remember. For Catholics, the baptismal name had to be a saint, and might be written as the Latin version. For civil society, the English required names to be in English. In the family, almost always the names would be in Irish. So, the person might have 3 names, plus pet names, if there were other family members (mothers, aunts, cousins) with the same name, which was usually the case. So Ellie could have also been from Helen or Ellen, which also had the diminuative Nellie / Nell besides Ellie. For Isabella, the English version would have been Elizabeth, and Ailis in Irish. Woulffe says: ISIBÉAL, genitive *idem* (the same), Isabella, Sybil, Sibby, Elizabeth, Eliza, Bessie, (Annabel, Annabella, Bella); the French form of Elizabeth ( *see* Ailís <http://www.libraryireland.com/names/women/ailis-alicia.php>); apparently the form in which the name first came into Ireland; still in use, but rare; also Sibéal. http://www.libraryireland.com/names/women/isibeal-isabella.php On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Lawrence Dill <lawrencedill@ymail.com>wrote: > I suspect that many women living in Ireland during > the 1800's were known by their short name or diminutive. > Ellie is a diminutive of Eleanor. Betty is a diminutive of > Elizabeth. What would have been the most likely short > name of Isabella in County Donegal? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Family Tree DNA - Stewart Stuart DNA Project https://www.familytreedna.com/public/stewart/default.aspx?secti... - Similar to Family Tree DNA - Stewart Stuart DNA Project Since November 2010, Y-DNA results in the Stewart Project have been .... Stewart) signature and recognised that it can be defined by 3 particular DYS ... 565, is an excellent indicator for descendants of the Stewart High Stewards of Scotland. 204713 James Stewart, b abt 1773 Greenbrier, West VirginiR-M222 1325141111-13121213131429189-1011112615183015-15-16-17111119-221616171738-38121211915-1 681010810111221-231610121216812252013121113111112113615916122426191211121211 913121011113012132414101021161913231713152412231810141791211 236057 McConnachie William McConaughey, b. ~1785, Donaghmore, Donegal R-M222 13 25 14 11 11-12 12 12 11 12 14 28 17 9-11 11 11 25 15 18 30 15-15-16-17 11 11 19-23 17 16 19 17 39-39 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 21-23 16 10 12 12 16 8 12 26 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 34 15 9 16 12 24 26 19 12 11 12 12 11 9 13 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 10 22 15 19 13 24 17 13 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11 63792 Ashley 2RNBW - Robert ASHLEY, c1797 SC - 13 25 14 11 11-12 12 12 11 12 14 28 17 9-11 11 11 25 15 18 30 15-15-16-17 11 11 19-23 17 16 19 17 40-40 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 21-23 16 10 12 12 16 8 12 26 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 11 Family Tree DNA - Stewart Stuart DNA Project https://www.familytreedna.com/public/stewart/default.aspx?secti... - Similar to Family Tree DNA - Stewart Stuart DNA Project Stewart Stuart DNA Project - Results ... Since November 2010, Y-DNA results in the Stewart Project have been .... R1b Subclade: R1b1a2a1a1b4b (R-M222). Stewart Surname DNA Project - MyHeritage _www.myheritage.com/dna-surname-project/Stewart_ (http://www.myheritage.com/dna-surname-project/Stewart) - Similar to Stewart Surname DNA Project - MyHeritage Stewart Surname DNA Project. < DNA tests. Member Count: 782. Surnames. Sewart, Steuart, Steward, Stewart, ..... R1b Subclade: R1b1a2a1a1b4b (R-M222). RootsWeb: DNA-R1B1C7-L Re: [R-M222] Donnchadh,/Conachie ... archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com › Archiver › DNA-R1B1C7 › 2013-09 Sep 26, 2013 ... There are several DNA profiles within the variant spelling Fawcett Origins-thestewartsinireland.ieThe Stewarts in Ireland _www.thestewartsinireland.ie/fawcett-origins/_ (http://www.thestewartsinireland.ie/fawcett-origins/) Lillian Stewart nee Fawcett was born in Ballynoe Co Carlow. At some .... Dated 10 Sept 1717 Witnesses: Wm Ashley, Thomas Barker, Jno Flemming D4348

I was thinking something similar today, especially as a Kennedy I have been testing at YSEQ has now been confirmed as S660+ (S588- DF85-). It's almost like S660* is the new M222, if we allow for some surname stacking by the McKees and McConns down in DF97. Walter's suggestion assumes you can predict branch membership by STRs and that is still a big question mark to me. One of my closest matches has just come back as FGC4077- to my surprise. It will be fascinating to monitor how close our nearest 'failed' matches get. Didn't someone tot up the numbers from the anonymous Chromo2 file, I don't have it to hand right now. What was the proportion of the total that was S660*.? That might be a better random sampling. Also, following Walter's suggestion, it is time for another mass network diagram for the project perhaps, to compare the groupings with and without the accompanying SNP confirmations. Again this can throw up surprises. I tend to do externally rooted ones using someone either from Z2961 or if appropriate, another M222 branch. Increasingly I find my external root is plotted as a closer relative than some of the folks in the branch I'm examining. Certainly I know from memory that both S660 and FGC4077 have members as far apart as any pair of people in the overall project. Iain > From: dcw1000@live.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 10:17:37 -0700 > Subject: [R-M222] Some idle numerical observations > > I don't think it is news to anyone that S660/DF109 is the monster sub-branch > within M222, but I was just idly pushing some numbers around on a warm > weekend morning and realized that it may be an even larger group than I had > calculated the last time I went through this exercise. Perhaps others would > be interested in these stats. > > > > Iain Kennedy's tree now has 117 individuals in it, if I counted them > correctly. (I did this hastily, so I may be off by one or two.) > > > > Of these, the S568 group (now including PF1169) contains 7 individuals. > > > > The FGC4077 group (which has yet to produce a major subhaplogroup to divide > its members) contains 15 individuals. > > > > The 97 others are all located in S660. > > > > In short, about five-sixths of M222 individuals are in S660; the other > one-sixth are split between the two smaller groups, with FGC4077 twice the > size of S568. > > > > Within S660, if you exclude the major S588 and DF85 branches, just under > one-fourth are S660* and members of the recently identified small branches. > The S588 population makes up a little over one-fourth and the DF85 branch > about one half of the entire S660 group. Of that large latter branch, DF97 > is the largest subordinate classification. With 32 members it makes up > two-thirds of the DF85 branch by itself and amounts to more than one-fourth > of the entire M222 population. DF97 may be that large because of statistical > oversampling of some surnames and kindred groups, so these percentages may > change a bit as time goes by. > > > > David Wilson > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Great job, Iain, as always! Thank you for your efforts. Walter Freeman P.S. You may have missed it, but Steve Lominac just tested "derived (+)" for FGC4087 from Yseq. He just posted this a day or so ago and was surprised that Yseq returned his results so fast. On 5/2/2014 12:17 PM, Iain Kennedy wrote: > I have updated the tree at last, there have been a number of interesting things to catch up on as the dust settles a bit. > > Firstly we have a possible new branch in Gillespie 94854 who based on his Bigy report appears negative for all known branches under S7073. I am hopeful I will get the chance to see the raw BAM file to get a final confirmation of this important result. His line is from Shroove on Inishowen. > > Hamilton 98188 from BigY appears to be S7814 although the call for that SNP is poor quality, definitely S588. Again I am awaiting the BAM file for this one. > > Coyne 333192 has tested FGC4078+. His STRs aren't visible yet but he is the son of N32460. > > Porter-MacDaibhéid 167335 is S660 from BigY. He has 10 novel SNPs and no overlap with any of the other S660 people. > > I have moved PF1169 again based on the information from the Byrne test and JFW. > > There were a number of mop up tests in the FGC4077/7/4087 branch, and more people have moved down under FGC4087. > > I think that's it. > > Iain > > http://www.kennedydna.com/M222.pdf > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Text inserted by Panda GP 2013: > > This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_2717&SPAM=true&path=C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\systemprofile\AppData\Local\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Global%20Protection%202013\AntiSpam > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >

Lawrence, Couple of things to remember. For Catholics, the baptismal name had to be a saint, and might be written as the Latin version. For civil society, the English required names to be in English. In the family, almost always the names would be in Irish. So, the person might have 3 names, plus pet names, if there were other family members (mothers, aunts, cousins) with the same name, which was usually the case. So Ellie could have also been from Helen or Ellen, which also had the diminuative Nellie / Nell besides Ellie. For Isabella, the English version would have been Elizabeth, and Ailis in Irish. Woulffe says: ISIBÉAL, genitive *idem* (the same), Isabella, Sybil, Sibby, Elizabeth, Eliza, Bessie, (Annabel, Annabella, Bella); the French form of Elizabeth ( *see* Ailís <http://www.libraryireland.com/names/women/ailis-alicia.php>); apparently the form in which the name first came into Ireland; still in use, but rare; also Sibéal. http://www.libraryireland.com/names/women/isibeal-isabella.php On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Lawrence Dill <lawrencedill@ymail.com>wrote: > I suspect that many women living in Ireland during > the 1800's were known by their short name or diminutive. > Ellie is a diminutive of Eleanor. Betty is a diminutive of > Elizabeth. What would have been the most likely short > name of Isabella in County Donegal? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I would caution against over interpretation of the results to date as the sample size is still quite small. For example, if someone could and was willing to go on a campaign to solicit and pay for all of their STR 67 near matches, e.g. I have 145 within a GD of 7, then I suspect I could single handedly skew the R-M222 tree so that the *FGC4087 subbranch under FGC4077/FGC4078* would appear to have become dominant. So perhaps a better estimate would be to browse through the STR-67 matches for all of the current members of the R-M222 project, collect the list of names, then eliminate overlaps so as not to overcount and see what the totals then look like using just the SNP headers we now have. (One would have to have project admin status to do this in order to access the individual Y-STR match lists from the R-M222 GAP page, to download, and to collate the data.) Doing this would help to reduce any sampling or testing bias with the current R-M222 subgroup test cohorts. That is it is unknown whether by chance or design if there are one or more groups who have done more SNP testing than others. This exercise would also give an estimate of the total number of R-M222 testers in the FTDNA database whether they have or have not joined the R-M222 project. The results may or may not show the same distributions as the current SNP testers headcounts. Walter Freeman On 5/4/2014 1:17 PM, David Wilson wrote: > I don't think it is news to anyone that S660/DF109 is the monster sub-branch > within M222, but I was just idly pushing some numbers around on a warm > weekend morning and realized that it may be an even larger group than I had > calculated the last time I went through this exercise. Perhaps others would > be interested in these stats. > > > > Iain Kennedy's tree now has 117 individuals in it, if I counted them > correctly. (I did this hastily, so I may be off by one or two.) > > > > Of these, the S568 group (now including PF1169) contains 7 individuals. > > > > The FGC4077 group (which has yet to produce a major subhaplogroup to divide > its members) contains 15 individuals. > > > > The 97 others are all located in S660. > > > > In short, about five-sixths of M222 individuals are in S660; the other > one-sixth are split between the two smaller groups, with FGC4077 twice the > size of S568. > > > > Within S660, if you exclude the major S588 and DF85 branches, just under > one-fourth are S660* and members of the recently identified small branches. > The S588 population makes up a little over one-fourth and the DF85 branch > about one half of the entire S660 group. Of that large latter branch, DF97 > is the largest subordinate classification. With 32 members it makes up > two-thirds of the DF85 branch by itself and amounts to more than one-fourth > of the entire M222 population. DF97 may be that large because of statistical > oversampling of some surnames and kindred groups, so these percentages may > change a bit as time goes by. > > > > David Wilson > >

I suspect that many women living in Ireland during  the 1800's were known by their short name or diminutive.  Ellie is a diminutive of Eleanor. Betty is a diminutive of  Elizabeth. What would have been the most likely short name of Isabella in County Donegal?

Part of the goal is to make it easier for more people to not to have to worry about lots of people to work with, but that's okay. Anyone who is sends me a Chromo 2 result to post in the shared file folder I will forward to Iain as well. His work his valuable so we want him to get it. Susan H and Alex Williamson have access to the shared file folder at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-L21-Project/files/Chromo_2_L21_S145_results/ I've prefixed all M222 Chromo 2 files with "M222" and the files are sorted alphabetically so you can quickly find them. Their FTDNA kit # is included in the file name also so you can go look up their Y STRs if that is something you are cross-checking. Anyone who is M222+ is by default L21/S145+ so they are invited to https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-L21-Project/ BTW, all of the .vcf/.bed files for Big Y results are in the a similar file folder at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-L21-Project/files/Big_Y_results/ It is sorted and labeled similarly so you'll find M222 files sorted together. I don't know if you are familiar with Alex Williamson. He's a very sharp person who is well versed in working with FGC, FTDNA and Chromo 2 so I recommend making sure he gets a crack at your data. Here is his "big tree" for L21 of Next Generation (FGC and Big Y) data. M222 is under DF49 about in the middle as you scroll left and right using the bar at the bottom of the screen. http://www.littlescottishcluster.com/RL21/NGS/Tree.html The nice thing about this kind of perspective is Alex is showing the "blocks" of SNPs which have a "time-line" value in displaying the branching. I have a couple of M222 who haven't given approval to share Big Y results so we are missing a couple of those as well as I think there is one or two FGC results not shared. If anyone sees they are missing and wants to be included let me know. Regards, Mike W On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 3:42 AM, Iain Kennedy <ikennedy_msdn2@hotmail.com>wrote: > Thank you but I have no wish to join other projects or forums. If people > want their data analysed by me, they can send it to me. It takes 30 seconds. > > If anyone has only sent their data to Mike Walsh's project and not heard > from me about the analysis or where they slot in to the tree, I encourage > them to get in touch directly as there is a danger they will get missed. > > Iain > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 3 May 2014 07:56:13 -0500 > > From: mwwdna@gmail.com > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Byrne - 236891 > > > > You are both welcome to join.... I just checked and I see you are in the > > group, Doug. I just invited Iain. > > > > Joining the R1b-L21-project yahoo group doesn't mean you need to post > > messages if you don't want. You can also set your messaging options to > > receive no emails so you don't have to receive messages either. The one > > thing you get is a free shared file space. This is a good way to share > data > > a little more openly. Unfortunately, when we do all of things on our own > > personal PCs or personal websites, God forbid, if something happens to > one > > of us the work is lost. > > > > Susan H is a co-moderator in that R1b-L21-project group. We (or she) > could > > easily setup M222 only folders. > > > > Of course, last year I offered to setup up an M222 specific yahoo group > for > > you. That's always an option too. I can set it up, and I can personally > > drop out too if that is desired. > > > > I've seen this happen where we lose track of stuff and we can't figure it > > out later when someone is no longer available. That's all. > > > > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-L21-Project/ > > > > Mike W > > > > > > On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 6:20 AM, tuulen <tuulen@gmail.com> wrote: > > > ​............​

I don't think it is news to anyone that S660/DF109 is the monster sub-branch within M222, but I was just idly pushing some numbers around on a warm weekend morning and realized that it may be an even larger group than I had calculated the last time I went through this exercise. Perhaps others would be interested in these stats. Iain Kennedy's tree now has 117 individuals in it, if I counted them correctly. (I did this hastily, so I may be off by one or two.) Of these, the S568 group (now including PF1169) contains 7 individuals. The FGC4077 group (which has yet to produce a major subhaplogroup to divide its members) contains 15 individuals. The 97 others are all located in S660. In short, about five-sixths of M222 individuals are in S660; the other one-sixth are split between the two smaller groups, with FGC4077 twice the size of S568. Within S660, if you exclude the major S588 and DF85 branches, just under one-fourth are S660* and members of the recently identified small branches. The S588 population makes up a little over one-fourth and the DF85 branch about one half of the entire S660 group. Of that large latter branch, DF97 is the largest subordinate classification. With 32 members it makes up two-thirds of the DF85 branch by itself and amounts to more than one-fourth of the entire M222 population. DF97 may be that large because of statistical oversampling of some surnames and kindred groups, so these percentages may change a bit as time goes by. David Wilson

Thank you but I have no wish to join other projects or forums. If people want their data analysed by me, they can send it to me. It takes 30 seconds. If anyone has only sent their data to Mike Walsh's project and not heard from me about the analysis or where they slot in to the tree, I encourage them to get in touch directly as there is a danger they will get missed. Iain > Date: Sat, 3 May 2014 07:56:13 -0500 > From: mwwdna@gmail.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Byrne - 236891 > > You are both welcome to join.... I just checked and I see you are in the > group, Doug. I just invited Iain. > > Joining the R1b-L21-project yahoo group doesn't mean you need to post > messages if you don't want. You can also set your messaging options to > receive no emails so you don't have to receive messages either. The one > thing you get is a free shared file space. This is a good way to share data > a little more openly. Unfortunately, when we do all of things on our own > personal PCs or personal websites, God forbid, if something happens to one > of us the work is lost. > > Susan H is a co-moderator in that R1b-L21-project group. We (or she) could > easily setup M222 only folders. > > Of course, last year I offered to setup up an M222 specific yahoo group for > you. That's always an option too. I can set it up, and I can personally > drop out too if that is desired. > > I've seen this happen where we lose track of stuff and we can't figure it > out later when someone is no longer available. That's all. > > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-L21-Project/ > > Mike W > > > On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 6:20 AM, tuulen <tuulen@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Paul, > > > > Yeah, the L21 project is a very widespread group, covering much more than > > just M222. > > > > Iain Kennedy is a specialist in putting people into a current M222 tree. > > > > Best, > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 12:56 AM, Iain Kennedy <ikennedy_msdn2@hotmail.com > > >wrote: > > > > > Paul, > > > In general its better if people send me these files directly since I'm > > not > > > in the L21 project. > > > Thanks > > > > > > Iain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 22:06:34 +0000 > > > > From: pabloburns@comcast.net > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: [R-M222] Byrne - 236891 > > > > > > > > Iain, > > > > Are you aware of Byrne 236891 whose results came in the other day? I > > > had them sent to Mike in the expectation that they would be uploaded to > > the > > > L21 forum where they would become available to all researchers, but I > > don't > > > know if that has occurred yet. BritainsDNA says his terminal SNP is S660. > > > He fits the 25-10-145 pattern that about ten of my Byrne M222s have. > > > > I can have his .txt file sent directly to you if you prefer. > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Mike, We have three people in the M222 group who have done amazing work over the past year to bring our M222 project to the very favourable position we are in today. We eagerly await updates to Iain¹s tree, perhaps not fully appreciating the enormous amount of daily work that he has and continues to put into analysis of the many sources of data that he routinely incorporates into this beautiful chart. Susan¹s foresight into the potential that analysis of new blocks of Y-SNPs held for M222, her enthusiasm for these new tests and her ability to communicate her enthusiasm for these tests was critical in getting the M222 group off to an early start in testing. She has also answered hundreds (maybe thousands) of queries that have kept us all informed. She has taken on a relentless front line analysis of all of the data coming in and her contributions to the development of Iain¹s tree cannot be underestimated. We saw this recently with PF1169, where she was the first to report a new insight and the one who obtained the data from Jim Wilson that cemented the position of PF1169. Mike has taken on M222 in addition to his work with the bigger L21 project. He has provided us with astonishing, accurate databases, which are highly interactive and searchable. I suspect that many of us routinely look into his "R1b-M222 haplotypes² file to find SNPs and STRs and genetic distances. His "R1b-M222_SNPs Chromo 2² file is a masterpiece that is probably studied by everyone. All that being said, I think we would all be horrified that Mike should even think of ³dropping out" of the M222 project. We would be lost without you, just as we would be lost without Susan and Iain. David On 2014-05-03, 8:56 AM, "Mike W" <mwwdna@gmail.com> wrote: >You are both welcome to join.... I just checked and I see you are in the >group, Doug. I just invited Iain. > >Joining the R1b-L21-project yahoo group doesn't mean you need to post >messages if you don't want. You can also set your messaging options to >receive no emails so you don't have to receive messages either. The one >thing you get is a free shared file space. This is a good way to share >data >a little more openly. Unfortunately, when we do all of things on our own >personal PCs or personal websites, God forbid, if something happens to one >of us the work is lost. > >Susan H is a co-moderator in that R1b-L21-project group. We (or she) could >easily setup M222 only folders. > >Of course, last year I offered to setup up an M222 specific yahoo group >for >you. That's always an option too. I can set it up, and I can personally >drop out too if that is desired. > >I've seen this happen where we lose track of stuff and we can't figure it >out later when someone is no longer available. That's all. > >https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-L21-Project/ > >Mike W >

You are both welcome to join.... I just checked and I see you are in the group, Doug. I just invited Iain. Joining the R1b-L21-project yahoo group doesn't mean you need to post messages if you don't want. You can also set your messaging options to receive no emails so you don't have to receive messages either. The one thing you get is a free shared file space. This is a good way to share data a little more openly. Unfortunately, when we do all of things on our own personal PCs or personal websites, God forbid, if something happens to one of us the work is lost. Susan H is a co-moderator in that R1b-L21-project group. We (or she) could easily setup M222 only folders. Of course, last year I offered to setup up an M222 specific yahoo group for you. That's always an option too. I can set it up, and I can personally drop out too if that is desired. I've seen this happen where we lose track of stuff and we can't figure it out later when someone is no longer available. That's all. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-L21-Project/ Mike W On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 6:20 AM, tuulen <tuulen@gmail.com> wrote: > Paul, > > Yeah, the L21 project is a very widespread group, covering much more than > just M222. > > Iain Kennedy is a specialist in putting people into a current M222 tree. > > Best, > > Doug > > > > > On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 12:56 AM, Iain Kennedy <ikennedy_msdn2@hotmail.com > >wrote: > > > Paul, > > In general its better if people send me these files directly since I'm > not > > in the L21 project. > > Thanks > > > > Iain > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 22:06:34 +0000 > > > From: pabloburns@comcast.net > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: [R-M222] Byrne - 236891 > > > > > > Iain, > > > Are you aware of Byrne 236891 whose results came in the other day? I > > had them sent to Mike in the expectation that they would be uploaded to > the > > L21 forum where they would become available to all researchers, but I > don't > > know if that has occurred yet. BritainsDNA says his terminal SNP is S660. > > He fits the 25-10-145 pattern that about ten of my Byrne M222s have. > > > I can have his .txt file sent directly to you if you prefer. > > > Paul > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Paul, Yeah, the L21 project is a very widespread group, covering much more than just M222. Iain Kennedy is a specialist in putting people into a current M222 tree. Best, Doug On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 12:56 AM, Iain Kennedy <ikennedy_msdn2@hotmail.com>wrote: > Paul, > In general its better if people send me these files directly since I'm not > in the L21 project. > Thanks > > Iain > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 22:06:34 +0000 > > From: pabloburns@comcast.net > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [R-M222] Byrne - 236891 > > > > Iain, > > Are you aware of Byrne 236891 whose results came in the other day? I > had them sent to Mike in the expectation that they would be uploaded to the > L21 forum where they would become available to all researchers, but I don't > know if that has occurred yet. BritainsDNA says his terminal SNP is S660. > He fits the 25-10-145 pattern that about ten of my Byrne M222s have. > > I can have his .txt file sent directly to you if you prefer. > > Paul > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Paul, In general its better if people send me these files directly since I'm not in the L21 project. Thanks Iain > Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 22:06:34 +0000 > From: pabloburns@comcast.net > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: [R-M222] Byrne - 236891 > > Iain, > Are you aware of Byrne 236891 whose results came in the other day? I had them sent to Mike in the expectation that they would be uploaded to the L21 forum where they would become available to all researchers, but I don't know if that has occurred yet. BritainsDNA says his terminal SNP is S660. He fits the 25-10-145 pattern that about ten of my Byrne M222s have. > I can have his .txt file sent directly to you if you prefer. > Paul > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

STR reconstruction from sequencing data is still a little problematic. For example when mine was done only 9 in the first 12 in FTDNA order were possible. YFull claimed to have managed better but there are still question marks over their work. The problem is the read length prevents accurately sticking the sequences of repeats back together. Iain > Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 14:06:44 -0700 > From: dnadls@gmail.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Flatley/Uí Fiachrach > > Is it possible to construct his STR values from the public data? I don't > see any other Flatleys in the project. > > I am still looking forward to the discovery of the SNP for the 25/10/14 > (DYS 390/391/392) Breifne-centric grouping under M222. > > Some of the Byrnes project members have this pattern, but it is unclear > whether there have been any SNP results from any of them. > > Thanks > > > On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 11:50 AM, Iain Kennedy <ikennedy_msdn2@hotmail.com>wrote: > > > I apologise, I misread Greg's email. Flatley is > > S660/DF109+S659/DF105+ > > > > Iain > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: dcw1000@live.com > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 11:39:25 -0700 > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Flatley/Uí Fiachrach > > > > > > Good to know. Was it (or can it be) determined that Flatley is also > > > DF109/S660+? It's a long shot, but I was wondering if he would split the > > > S659/S660 equivalence. > > > > > > David W. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Iain Kennedy > > > Sent: Friday, May 2, 2014 11:19 AM > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com; dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: [R-M222] Flatley/Uí Fiachrach > > > > > > As some of you may know, one of the first human genomes to be sequenced > > was > > > Jay Flatley who is CEO of Illumina, and his data is in the public > > domain. I > > > just checked with Greg Magoon and Andy Grierson who I believe used this > > data > > > in one of their papers and they have confirmed that Flatley is > > S661/DF104+, > > > S659/DF105+ and negative for all downstream branches. He will appear on > > the > > > next upload of the tree. > > > > > > Flatley is supposed to be Uí Fiachrach but then again so is Coyne who is > > > FGC4078+, S659/DF105-... > > > > > > Iain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~davesherry/sherrys.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Iain, Are you aware of Byrne 236891 whose results came in the other day? I had them sent to Mike in the expectation that they would be uploaded to the L21 forum where they would become available to all researchers, but I don't know if that has occurred yet. BritainsDNA says his terminal SNP is S660. He fits the 25-10-145 pattern that about ten of my Byrne M222s have. I can have his .txt file sent directly to you if you prefer. Paul

Great work and presentation Iain! Now we should deal with PF1265, where Chromo2 has identified 3 individuals, c475, c482 and c485, all under M222 R1b-S660. Do we know who these people are? David

I apologise, I misread Greg's email. Flatley is S660/DF109+S659/DF105+ Iain > From: dcw1000@live.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 11:39:25 -0700 > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Flatley/Uí Fiachrach > > Good to know. Was it (or can it be) determined that Flatley is also > DF109/S660+? It's a long shot, but I was wondering if he would split the > S659/S660 equivalence. > > David W. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Iain Kennedy > Sent: Friday, May 2, 2014 11:19 AM > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com; dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: [R-M222] Flatley/Uí Fiachrach > > As some of you may know, one of the first human genomes to be sequenced was > Jay Flatley who is CEO of Illumina, and his data is in the public domain. I > just checked with Greg Magoon and Andy Grierson who I believe used this data > in one of their papers and they have confirmed that Flatley is S661/DF104+, > S659/DF105+ and negative for all downstream branches. He will appear on the > next upload of the tree. > > Flatley is supposed to be Uí Fiachrach but then again so is Coyne who is > FGC4078+, S659/DF105-... > > Iain > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Greg didn't mention it but although this is circumstantial I would assume Jim Wilson has also referred to this data and would have split them in his tree if it did (?). Iain > From: dcw1000@live.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 11:39:25 -0700 > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Flatley/Uí Fiachrach > > Good to know. Was it (or can it be) determined that Flatley is also > DF109/S660+? It's a long shot, but I was wondering if he would split the > S659/S660 equivalence. > > David W. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Iain Kennedy > Sent: Friday, May 2, 2014 11:19 AM > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com; dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: [R-M222] Flatley/Uí Fiachrach > > As some of you may know, one of the first human genomes to be sequenced was > Jay Flatley who is CEO of Illumina, and his data is in the public domain. I > just checked with Greg Magoon and Andy Grierson who I believe used this data > in one of their papers and they have confirmed that Flatley is S661/DF104+, > S659/DF105+ and negative for all downstream branches. He will appear on the > next upload of the tree. > > Flatley is supposed to be Uí Fiachrach but then again so is Coyne who is > FGC4078+, S659/DF105-... > > Iain > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

As some of you may know, one of the first human genomes to be sequenced was Jay Flatley who is CEO of Illumina, and his data is in the public domain. I just checked with Greg Magoon and Andy Grierson who I believe used this data in one of their papers and they have confirmed that Flatley is S661/DF104+, S659/DF105+ and negative for all downstream branches. He will appear on the next upload of the tree. Flatley is supposed to be Uí Fiachrach but then again so is Coyne who is FGC4078+, S659/DF105-... Iain