Statistical considerations here are indeed at the heart of your not understanding a statistical model which involves many considerations other than the generation length you have seized on. In this circumstance the model I used for calculating these values uses a "_statistical"_ generation tied to a mutation rate constant. That statistical generation is indeed 25 years. If I wanted to change the generation length I could, and I'd also need to change the mutation rate constant. I have done this and demonstrated it on the L21 forum last year. Troll through the archives and see if you can find it. I prefer, however, to use the model as it was designed. It works, and IMO the most accurate in comparison to the multitude of other models out there. This is why I prefer the model, and since I am doing the work I guess it is my option to choose the model or models I prefer. There are others out there and I don't limit myself. Most of them are far more simple to use than this one. I often will cross check using other models. Those that I choose normally will be within margin...yet despite the fact that this particular model has multiple steps, a didactic approach, isn't a plug and play, I choose this one because the information it produces is trust worthy, consistent, address nuances that others do not, and is reproducible. David, you are welcome to run TMRCA calculations any way you see fit. Pick a model or develop one yourself and work into it all the considerations you believe need be there. Calibrate it against known genealogies as this one has been. Take it then and start using it. Do lineage analyses, sub-clade analyses, etc. as I've been doing with this one and a few assorted other models for the better part of 3 years now. Get proficient. I hope you do not consider it rude, but I'll not engage further in what I suggested I preferred not to engage in when I added a note approaching the difference between using a statistical model to calculate the TMRCA of haplotypes representing many different lineages and your approach to counting generation for 2 in line lineages, one of them being of a fabricated nature as revealed by one of our historical experts, Paul Duffy. Susan On 5/18/2014 9:16 PM, David Maclennan wrote: > Dear Susan, > > I can¹t say that I am proficient enough in statistics to understand your > explanation (below), but here are my thoughts: > First, we are not talking about a lot of lineages, but about the M222 > lineages in areas facing the Atlantic: Ireland, Scotland, North America > and Iceland. We are also talking only about whether the generation time > was 3/century or 4/century. Since our project is moving fast, this should > be a time when people should be encouraged to measure whatever portions of > their pedigrees they can dig up and see if we can get a consensus of the > most appropriate generation time for M222 people. > As a corollary, Brad Knowles has asked the question "Can anyone produce > numbers that support 25 years per generation?² > You say below "it makes little difference whether or not the generation > length is 3 or 4 per century to calculate the TMRCA". I¹m not sure that > this is an accurate statement. What you may mean is that 3 vs 4 makes > little difference in calculating the TMRCA in GENERATIONs. > > Here I have pulled out a section from your M222_DS_SNPSummary5.19.14.xls > > > > > > > > > > > > > f215509 Ewing,S (prob S603)BIGYS588 > > > f43498Lane, should test YSEQ BIGY S588 > > > f205253 Corbin FTDNA/YSEQ S588 > > > > 60G about 1500 years ±370 years > > > > L & C 48G about 1200 years ±320 years > > What I think I see is that you equate 60G with 1500 years and 48G with > 1200 years ie. 4 generations per century. If the generation time were > actually 3/century, then the times in years would be 60G in 2000 years and > 48G in 1500 years - a pretty significant difference. > > David > > > On 2014-05-18, 11:18 AM, "Susan Hedeen" <chantillycarpets@earthlink.net> > wrote: > >> When looking at a population of hundreds of lineages, generations per >> century may be a floating concept; some lineages will coalesce around 3 >> while others will coalesce around 4 and even 5. >> >> Each method will incorporate into the method of calculation a generation >> length constant; in that regard, however it makes little difference >> whether or not the generation length is 3 or 4 per century to calculate >> the TMRCA. Most generation length averages will be tied to a mutation >> rate constant for calculating purposes and all are subject to a standard >> deviation as well as all statistical considerations are. >> >

Average generation length of the principle tribe of the Uladh, the Dál Fiatach. O'Clery's Book of Genealogies has the ancestry of Ruaidhrí Mac Duinnshléibhe, the last king of the Dál Fiatach who died in 1201, from his ancestor Muiredaigh Muindeirg who died in 489. It is 21 generations, so the average length is about 34 years. If you push it back to Fergus Dubhtach who died in 226, you get 28 generations for an average of 35 years. These names before Saint Patrick are considered sketchy by modern scholars though. -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Maclennan Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 9:16 PM To: Susan Hedeen; dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] Generations per century Dear Susan, I can¹t say that I am proficient enough in statistics to understand your explanation (below), but here are my thoughts: First, we are not talking about a lot of lineages, but about the M222 lineages in areas facing the Atlantic: Ireland, Scotland, North America and Iceland. We are also talking only about whether the generation time was 3/century or 4/century. Since our project is moving fast, this should be a time when people should be encouraged to measure whatever portions of their pedigrees they can dig up and see if we can get a consensus of the most appropriate generation time for M222 people. As a corollary, Brad Knowles has asked the question "Can anyone produce numbers that support 25 years per generation?² You say below "it makes little difference whether or not the generation length is 3 or 4 per century to calculate the TMRCA". I¹m not sure that this is an accurate statement. What you may mean is that 3 vs 4 makes little difference in calculating the TMRCA in GENERATIONs. Here I have pulled out a section from your M222_DS_SNPSummary5.19.14.xls f215509 Ewing,S (prob S603)BIGYS588 f43498Lane, should test YSEQ BIGY S588 f205253 Corbin FTDNA/YSEQ S588 60G about 1500 years ±370 years L & C 48G about 1200 years ±320 years What I think I see is that you equate 60G with 1500 years and 48G with 1200 years ie. 4 generations per century. If the generation time were actually 3/century, then the times in years would be 60G in 2000 years and 48G in 1500 years - a pretty significant difference. David On 2014-05-18, 11:18 AM, "Susan Hedeen" <chantillycarpets@earthlink.net> wrote: >When looking at a population of hundreds of lineages, generations per >century may be a floating concept; some lineages will coalesce around 3 >while others will coalesce around 4 and even 5. > >Each method will incorporate into the method of calculation a >generation length constant; in that regard, however it makes little >difference whether or not the generation length is 3 or 4 per century >to calculate the TMRCA. Most generation length averages will be tied >to a mutation rate constant for calculating purposes and all are >subject to a standard deviation as well as all statistical considerations are. > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The Irish Annals have many entries about the presence of the Uladh in western Ulster long after they were supposed to be gone. Almost all of the references are about the Cruthin tribes of the Uladh in the area near the City of Derry. Here is a quote from "Early Medieval Ireland, 400–1200" 1995, by Dáibhí Ó Cróinín. Notes: Dun Cruthin = Duncrun, a townland near Limavady which is across Lough Foyle from Inishowen, Donegal. Dál nAraide: the Uí Echach Coba (mentioned below in the OP), were the southern branch of the Dál nAraide and based in east Down. "The year 563 A.D. marked a watershed in Cruthin fortunes; a battle was won that year by a northern O'Neill alliance against the combination of Cruthin Kings, seven of whom are said to have fallen in the battle. The immediate cause appears to have been internal rivalry among the Cruthin themselves. A Cruthin dynastic enlisted the O'Neill as allies against his cousins, promising them Magilligan as a reward. The battle was also remembered by Andoman who mentions that one of the Cruthin Kings escaped in a chariot – one of the last historical references to the user chariots in combat (in the useful counter to the notion that chariot warfare in the Tain denotes great antiquity). The battle is also interesting confirmation that a territories West of the River Bann and north of the Moyola River in South East Derry only came under the control of the O'Neill years following 563 A.D. – long after the date when, according to O'Neill propaganda, the ancient King of Ulster had collapsed. The loose confederation of the Cruthin tribes which had taken the field in 563 A.D. regrouped after their defeat in the territory East of the Bann and consolidated their around the remnants of the Dál nAraide. The two antagonist clashed again at the battle a few miles West of Coleraine in 629 A.D., resulting in or out of the Dál nAraide. The Dál nAraide in fact appear again as late as in 681 A.D. resisting further O'Neill encroachment around Derry. On this occasion, however, the Dál nAraide King and his ally were killed in what the analysts called 'the burning of the Kings at Dun Cruthin'." -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Robert Reid Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 4:43 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: [R-M222] Niall a Cruithin? Are you Cruithin? Sources: Brain Lacey’s Cenel Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms AD 500-800 Adomnan of Iona, edited by Wooding, Lacey article Adomnan and Donegal I would not bet against Brian Lacey, perhaps the most acclaimed authority on the Donegal Kingdoms 500-800: DNA testing (2006) on Cenél nÁeda Esa Ruaid (Cannon, Gallagher), Cenél Lugdach (Boyle, Doherty, McMenamin, O’Donnell), and Cenél nEógain (Devlin, Donnelly, Gormley, McLoughlin, O’Kane, Quinn) reveal a common genetic marker from a single ancestor who lived about 1,730 years ago in the Irish northwest. Lacey persuasively eliminates Niall Noígiallach as that progenitor. Dan Wiley Southern University Lacey's central thesis--that the Donegal kingdoms were unrelated to the dynasties descended from Niall Noígiallach--remains tenable and intriguing. Whether or not it will gain wide acceptance remains to be seen, but it is sure to spark a lively debate that will ultimately transform our current understanding of early Irish history Brian Lacey in his Cenel Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms AD 500-800, 2006 states the following: p. 165 To sum up, with the exception of Cenel Cairpre, there appears to be no evidence that any rulers of the Donegal kingdoms were related by blood to Niall Noigiallach or to the Ui Neill. Instead, it seems that there is evidence that the Cenel Conaill were a Cruitin people associated in some way with the Ui Echach Coba and with other, allegedly east Ulster people.. The paradox in all of this is, that, of the groups said to belonged to the northern Ui Neill, the one that would become most marginalized, the Cenel Cairpre, may have been the only genuine one among them. p. 165 Niall Noigiallach probably flourished sbout the middle of the fifth century and may himself not have ‘ruled over anything more than an ordinary tuath,’ (Reid – tuath - A trícha cét <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tr%C3%ADcha_c%C3%A9t> ("thirty hundreds"), was an area comprising a hundred dwellings or, roughly, three thousand people. A túath consisted of a number of allied trícha céta, and therefore referred to no fewer than 6,000 people. Probably a more accurate number for a túath would be no fewer than 9,000 people (wikipedia). Although in the earlier traditions Niall is credited with seven sons whose floruits were about 470-520, at least three of those: Conall Gulban, Enna and Eogan, were not related to him at all … The remaining four: Loegaire, Fiachu, Conall Cremthainne and Coipre, may have been sons or other close relatives of Niall but Conall (if he was not just an invention to allow differentiation od Dairmait mac Cerball and his descendants from the Cenel Conall) was not the ancestor of the southern Ui Neill as is usually claimed. In addition: Adomnan of Iona, edited by Wooding, Lacey article Adomnan and Donegal, 2010, p. 22 However, having asserted Adomnan’s fictional Sil Lugdach credentials, the Cain introduction goes on to reinforce them by describing a solemn convent that is alleged to have been made between his father’s and mother’s people Then Ronnat (Adomnan’s mother) went to Brugach son of Dega and got a chain from him. She put it around her son’s breast under the bridge of the Swilly in Cenel Conaill, the place where the covenant had been made between his mother’s kindred and his father’s kindred, ie between the Cenel nEndai and cenel Lugdach .. Apart from these propagandistic references, there appears to be no other evidence that Adamnan belonged to the Cenel or Sil Lugdach. This is important as the latter were, as originally suggested by Donall Mac Giolla Easpaig, almost certainly not related by blood to the Cenel Conaill as is usually asserted. p. 23 Insofar as we can rely on them, the regular genealogies claim that Adomnan very definitely belonged to what might be called the Cenel Conaill proper. Traditionally the Cenel Conaill have been said to be part of the Ui Neill of the north; but it now seems that the claim can no longer be accepted at face value. In fact, Adomnan himself seems to throw doubt on it with reference to his relative, Columba. Adomnan makes only one specific reference to the Ui Neill in the Vita Columbae. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Are you Cruithin? Sources: Brain Lacey’s Cenel Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms AD 500-800 Adomnan of Iona, edited by Wooding, Lacey article Adomnan and Donegal I would not bet against Brian Lacey, perhaps the most acclaimed authority on the Donegal Kingdoms 500-800: DNA testing (2006) on Cenél nÁeda Esa Ruaid (Cannon, Gallagher), Cenél Lugdach (Boyle, Doherty, McMenamin, O’Donnell), and Cenél nEógain (Devlin, Donnelly, Gormley, McLoughlin, O’Kane, Quinn) reveal a common genetic marker from a single ancestor who lived about 1,730 years ago in the Irish northwest. Lacey persuasively eliminates Niall Noígiallach as that progenitor. Dan Wiley Southern University Lacey's central thesis--that the Donegal kingdoms were unrelated to the dynasties descended from Niall Noígiallach--remains tenable and intriguing. Whether or not it will gain wide acceptance remains to be seen, but it is sure to spark a lively debate that will ultimately transform our current understanding of early Irish history Brian Lacey in his Cenel Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms AD 500-800, 2006 states the following: p. 165 To sum up, with the exception of Cenel Cairpre, there appears to be no evidence that any rulers of the Donegal kingdoms were related by blood to Niall Noigiallach or to the Ui Neill. Instead, it seems that there is evidence that the Cenel Conaill were a Cruitin people associated in some way with the Ui Echach Coba and with other, allegedly east Ulster people.. The paradox in all of this is, that, of the groups said to belonged to the northern Ui Neill, the one that would become most marginalized, the Cenel Cairpre, may have been the only genuine one among them. p. 165 Niall Noigiallach probably flourished sbout the middle of the fifth century and may himself not have ‘ruled over anything more than an ordinary tuath,’ (Reid – tuath - A trícha cét <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tr%C3%ADcha_c%C3%A9t> ("thirty hundreds"), was an area comprising a hundred dwellings or, roughly, three thousand people. A túath consisted of a number of allied trícha céta, and therefore referred to no fewer than 6,000 people. Probably a more accurate number for a túath would be no fewer than 9,000 people (wikipedia). Although in the earlier traditions Niall is credited with seven sons whose floruits were about 470-520, at least three of those: Conall Gulban, Enna and Eogan, were not related to him at all … The remaining four: Loegaire, Fiachu, Conall Cremthainne and Coipre, may have been sons or other close relatives of Niall but Conall (if he was not just an invention to allow differentiation od Dairmait mac Cerball and his descendants from the Cenel Conall) was not the ancestor of the southern Ui Neill as is usually claimed. In addition: Adomnan of Iona, edited by Wooding, Lacey article Adomnan and Donegal, 2010, p. 22 However, having asserted Adomnan’s fictional Sil Lugdach credentials, the Cain introduction goes on to reinforce them by describing a solemn convent that is alleged to have been made between his father’s and mother’s people Then Ronnat (Adomnan’s mother) went to Brugach son of Dega and got a chain from him. She put it around her son’s breast under the bridge of the Swilly in Cenel Conaill, the place where the covenant had been made between his mother’s kindred and his father’s kindred, ie between the Cenel nEndai and cenel Lugdach .. Apart from these propagandistic references, there appears to be no other evidence that Adamnan belonged to the Cenel or Sil Lugdach. This is important as the latter were, as originally suggested by Donall Mac Giolla Easpaig, almost certainly not related by blood to the Cenel Conaill as is usually asserted. p. 23 Insofar as we can rely on them, the regular genealogies claim that Adomnan very definitely belonged to what might be called the Cenel Conaill proper. Traditionally the Cenel Conaill have been said to be part of the Ui Neill of the north; but it now seems that the claim can no longer be accepted at face value. In fact, Adomnan himself seems to throw doubt on it with reference to his relative, Columba. Adomnan makes only one specific reference to the Ui Neill in the Vita Columbae.

Dear Paul, That’s an interesting piece of irish history, so let’s take it up to a more modern era and assume that, even if the pedigree were contrived from strings of recorded people - fathers, sons, grandsons -, the generation times would not be altered within those groups. Is Somerled also mythical? Somerled is #20 in the pedigree, 23 generations before Frank McDonald. Using the same calculation, at 3 generations per century, Somerled would have been born 767 years before Frank McDonald, in 1159. The article indicates that Somerled died in 1164. So, going back 23 generations (767 years), the estimated year of his birth, based on 3 generations/century, is off by 28 years. David On 2014-05-18, 6:03 AM, "Paul Ó Duḃṫaiġ" <pduffy81@gmail.com> wrote: >The tree Colla's are regarded as Mythical, leaving aside that there >supposed floruit is 4th/5th centuries. The genealogy has been fabricated >to >give the Oirialla (Airghialla) a lineage that connected into the Dál Cuind >(Dál Cuinn aka: Connachta and Uí Néill) > >-Paul >(DF41+) >

> So, we have two independent pedigrees which indicate that the generation > time M222 people are interested in was a lot closer to 3 generations per > century than to 4 generations per century. Incidentally, I could show that > 3 generations per century held up over different parts of my pedigree - in > Iceland , in the USA and Canada and in ancient Ireland. I have map out a number of pedigrees and spaced them out with the year of their death. These pedigrees support 3 generations per century. On the other hand using the mutation rate for 25 markers and assuming dynastic surnames trace back to a 10th century originator I find support for 4 generations per century. I wonder if the mutation rate is off?

I am waiting on further results for a Morgan from Carlingford Lough area. This is home the O'Muireagain who claim descent from the Ui Tuirtre; the former ruling people of Airghialla. He is so far DF49+, the same as the Ui Maine and Dal Cuinn (and other M222 kinships). > The tree Colla's are regarded as Mythical, leaving aside that there > supposed floruit is 4th/5th centuries. The genealogy has been fabricated to > give the Oirialla (Airghialla) a lineage that connected into the Dál Cuind > (Dál Cuinn aka: Connachta and Uí Néill)

Ulster Heritage Magazine: Ulster Surnames Ulster Heritage Magazine Pages Home Ulster Heritage Publishing This Blog Linked From Here ULSTER LINKS The Shops North America This Blog Linked From Here ULSTER LINKS The Shops North America Showing posts with label Ulster Surnames. Show all posts Showing posts with label Ulster Surnames. Show all posts Friday, 28 February 2014 Route Ancestry Study Opportunity DO YOU HAVE ROOTS IN ‘THE ROUTE’? Ballymoney Museum will be hosting the third Route Back Home family history conference in 2014. The conference will run from 24-27 September and will be based in Ballymoney Town Hall. The Route Back Home has been developed to assist people who are researching their ancestry in Ballymoney, Co. Antrim. The conference is an opportunity to meet other people from across the world who share an interest in North Antrim, a region traditionally known as "the Route”. The programme will include contributions by prominent genealogy experts including: Dorothy Arthur, Genealogist & Author S.A. Blair, Historian & Author Dr. Tyrone Bowes, Genetic Genealogy Mary Bradley, Local Studies Service, Ballymena, Libraries NI Dr. Patrick Fitzgerald, Mellon Centre for Migration Studies Gillian Hunt, Ulster Historical Foundation Dr. Glynn Kelso, Public Record Office of Northern Ireland Dr. Linde Lunney, Dictionary of Irish Biography, Royal Irish Academy Elwyn Soutter, Genealogist Deidre Speer-Whyte, Ulster-Scots Community Network Leah Tweed, Ballymoney Branch Library, Libraries NI The Route Back Home is supported by the Coleraine Branch of the North of Ireland Family History Society (www. http://colerainefhs.org.uk/) and their members will be available to help and provide advice for delegates throughout the conference. In addition, delegates will be able to visit important archives which hold essential information for family history research: Local Studies Service, Ballymena Ballymoney Branch Library Public Record Office of Northern Ireland, Belfast General Register Office of Northern Ireland, Belfast HOW DO I BOOK MY PLACE? Delegates must pay the full booking fee of £180 to be allocated a place at the conference. Only 20 places are available and bookings cannot be confirmed until receipt of a completed booking form and full payment. The conference fee includes: Daily lunch and regular refreshments Conference dinner and drinks reception Research trips to Belfast and Ballymena Please contact me at this email address if you require further information and I look forward to hopefully seeing you in September. Regards, Keith Beattie Museum Manager Posted by Barry R McCain at 12:46 No comments: Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest Labels: Scots-Irish, Ulster Surnames Sunday, 30 June 2013 Mid Argyll Group DNA Project Launched The research into the Mid Argyll Kinship Group picking up pace with the creation of the Mid Argyll Group DNA project. The project will collect DNA results from those men are in the group. The project is only open to men that are a paternal DNA match to the group, which is a Gaelic paternal kinship clan indigenous to mid Argyll. The project's goal is to research the Mid Argyll Kinship Group circa 1300 to late 1500s. . The geographic area of the study is the parish of Kilmichael Glassary and the immediate surrounding districts. The surnames in the group are Duncan, Gay, McGay, Gray, Henry, Henrie, McAlpin, McCain, McCane, McKane, McKain, McKean, McKeen, McDonald, and McLea. In Gaelic, Mac Donnchaidh, Mag Aodh, Glass, Mac Eanruig, Mac Ailpín, Mac Eáin, Mac Dónaill, and Mac an Leagha. Another surname of interest in the research are McLachlain (Mac Lachlainn) and the project is open to any male that is a high level DNA match to the group. The reason are so many surnames in the group is because surnames were not fixed in Argyll in the 1500s. Gaelic families often followed traditional patronymic customs of mid Argyll. This generated several surnames within the same family during that century. The surnames in this DNA match group were in use in Kilmichael Glassary in the 1500s. Most of these surnames appear in records connected to the Mac Lachlainn 'clan' of Dunadd. It is speculated that the Mid Argyll Kinship group is actually the Mac Lachlainn of Dunadd family. The families of the Mid Argyll Kinship Group played an important role in the history of Ulster. Many of the families in this kinship group migrated from mid Argyll to the Foyle River area from 1569-to the late 1590s. They were Redshank soldiers connected to the Ó Dónaill and Ó Neill clans. This project will have Dr Kyle MacLea as a co-administrator; he is a graduate of Dartmouth College and teaches at Linfield College, Portland, Oregon. Barry R McCain will be a co-administrator; he is a graduate of Ole Miss and is a writer living in Oxford, Mississippi. Mr McCain will working with the primary source research and Gaelic language elements. Link to Join the Mid Argyll Kinship Group DNA project: Mid Argyll Group Posted by Barry R McCain at 16:23 No comments: Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest Labels: Scots-Irish, Ulster Scots, Ulster Surnames Thursday, 14 February 2013 Ulster surnames; Mountain The surname Mountain might seem a strange Ulster surname, but is simply an anglicised form, in this case a straight translation of the Gaelic surname Ó Sléibhín, or descendant of Sléibhín. Sléibhín is a diministive of Sliabh (a mountain). In Ulster, the name of a branch of the Cinel Eoghain. Ó Sléibhín is also anglicised as Slaven. In the Ulster Heritage DNA Project there are several Mountains families that match Slaven families. When researching one's family history it is always helpful to know both the Gaelic and various anglicised forms of a surname. Posted by Barry R McCain at 11:30 No comments: Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest Labels: Ulster Surnames Saturday, 9 February 2013 An Ulster Shannon Family Shannon is the anglicised form of the Gaelic surname Ó Seanáin. One Shannon family from Ulster is asking assistance in the search for their family history. They are participants in the Ulster Heritage DNA Project and their match group at the 67 level includes several Shannon families and one McKee (Mac Aodh) family. Below is a short summary of the family's genealogy. All Shannons are encourage to participate in the DNA project and also, if you know more about this family's history to post a comment with your contact data. Looking for Descendants of Andrew Shannon 1. Andrew Shannon, born in 1780 in Ulster. He married Margaret Judge. Her date of birth and marriage are unknown. They had one son, James Shannon, born in 1798 in Maghera, Co. Londonderry. 2. James Shannon married Maria Meek in 1818 in Tullyroan, Co. Armagh. She was born about 1798 in Tulyroan. James Shannon was a subscriber from Maghera for two copies of the book The Orange Minstrel, or Ulster Melodist, by Robert Young, Londonderry, 1832. The location and dates of death of James and Maria are unknown. James and Maria had four children: i. Margaret Shannon, born 10 Oct 1820 in Coleraine, Co. Londonderry. ii. William Shannon, born 23 Feb 1824 in Maghera, Co. Londonderry. iii. James Shannon, born 2 June 1829 in Maghera, Co. Londonderry iv. Thomas George Shannon, born 21 June 1837 in Magherafelt, Co. Londonderry 3. Margaret Shannon married James McKay on 8 June 1852 at Dungiven Church of England, Co. Londonderry. James McKay was born in 1832 in Ireland. Margaret and James McKay had three children born in Ireland: i. William James McKay, born 22 April 1854 in Londonderry, Co. Londonderry ii. Mary Charlotte McKay, born 26 Sep 1856 in Londonderry, Co. Londonderry iii. Joseph McKay, born in 1861 in Londonderry, Co. Londonderry Margaret and James McKay and their three children immigrated to Canada in 1861 and died there. 4. William Shannon immigrated to Canada in about 1849 and died there. 5. James Shannon married Letitia Leathem on 1 Jan 1856 in Portadown, Co. Armagh at St. Gobhan’s Church of Ireland, Seagoe Parish. She was born 8 March 1828 in Ireland. James and Letitia had one son, Robert Walker Shannon, born 2 Nov 1856 in Portglenone, Co. Antrim, and the three immigrated to Canada in 1857 and all died there. 6. Thomas George Shannon immigrated to Canada with his brother James and his family in 1857 and he died there. Posted by Barry R McCain at 14:55 3 comments: Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest Labels: Ulster Surnames Thursday, 3 January 2013 Ulster Surnames; McCann In Irish surname books McCann is normally stated to be an anglicised form of the Gaelic surname Mac Canna which means 'son of Annadh.' Other forms in Gaelic are Mac Cana and Mac Anna. The McCanns were lords of Clann Breasail and originated on the south side of Loch Neagh in County Armagh. While this is certainly true for the majority of McCanns in Ireland and the Diaspora, DNA testing has revealed that McCann is some cases is the anglicised form of Mac Eáin. Mac Eáin is normally anglicised as McKean, McKane, etc., but occasionally as McCann. The anglicising of Gaelic surnames was done very haphazardly and standard forms are rare. Fortunately DNA testing can often ascertain the correct original for of the McCann surname. Not only is McCann sometimes a form of Mac Eáin, but the reverse is true also, in a few cases DNA testing revealed that McCane can also be a anglicised from of Mac Canna. Posted by Barry R McCain at 12:57 2 comments: Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest Labels: Ulster Surnames Saturday, 25 August 2012 The Knox Families of Donegal Donegal's Ivan Knox Ivan Knox is a retired self made business man and much more, he is also a published poet and historian of the families and events of the Finn Valley in County Donegal. He has a website with excellent data on not only the Knox families of old Donegal, but of the many families they are related to by marriage. Link: Knox Family Records Posted by Barry R McCain at 14:00 No comments: Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest Labels: Donegal, Ulster Surnames Wednesday, 15 August 2012 MacFarlane in Ulster Members of the MacFarlane Highland Scottish clan settled in Ulster in the sixteenth century, as did many other families from the Scottish Gaeltacht. The MacFarlane, or more properly, Mac Pharláinn, families were native to the lands west of Loch Lomond. Many of the Mac Pharláinn families that settled in Ulster were in the Redshank colony in the old Portlough precinct in east Donegal. The Redshanks in the Portlough precinct were part of an elaborate plan initiated by the fifth Earl of Argyll, Giolla Easpuig Donn Caimbeul. His niece was the famous Iníon Dubh, mother of Aodh Rua Ó Dónaill, and it was on her lands that many Caimbeul sponsored Highland Gaels settled. The ruins of Iníon Dubh's castle near Porthall; photo copyright Jim McKane 2012 In the sixteenth century Clann Chaimbeul spread from their homelands in mid Argyll extending their bases and influence in both the Highlands and Lowlands of Scotland. Clann Chaimbeul was the most successful kinship group in early modern Scotland. Their great advantage was they were Gaels, but could operate not only in their traditional Gaelic society, but also in the emerging British world, including the Scottish Lowlands. The earls' (of Argyll, head of Clann Chaimbeul) main base was Inveraray on Loch Fyne, and there they had access to the Firth of Clyde and the western seas including the North Channel passage to Ireland. The Mac Pharláinns of Arrochar were drawn into Lord Argyll's elaborate network of allies and they were one of the many Redshank families that settled in east Donegal. For more information of Mac Pharláinn families in Ulster follow the link below. Link: Mac Pharláinn in Ulster Posted by Barry R McCain at 19:58 1 comment: Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest Labels: Scots-Irish, Ulster Scots, Ulster Surnames Thursday, 17 November 2011 Surnames, Beatty & McVitty Bia, meaning food, is the root of many words in Gaelic and several surnames. In ancient and mediaeval Ulster strangers and travellers were granted hospitality. Each district would have a 'biatach' who was the man intrusted by the clan's taoiseach with the responsibility of providing this hospitality. This was done at the Brú, which was a hostel located at a road crossing on a major slí, or road. The position of biatach was important and he would be provided with land and goods so that he could execute his work. In short, it was a good gig. The word biatach is used in several traditional family surnames: Ó Beataigh (descendant of the Biatach) which is anglicised as Beatty, Beattie. Another surname from Biatach is Mac an Bhiataigh (son of the Biatach) and anglicised as MacVitty, McVitie, etc. (so there is some connected between those lovely tea biscuits and their name!). Posted by Barry R McCain at 07:50 2 comments: Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest Labels: Ulster Surnames Thursday, 19 August 2010 Ulster Surnames, McDaneil McDaniel is a common surname across Ulster. It is almost always a anglicised form of the Gaelic surname of Mac Dónaill and can be either Irish or Scottish in origin. The root name is Dónall which means 'world mighty' and it is a very old and very common Gaelic personal name. Many of the McDaniel families participating in the Ulster Heritage DNA Project have matches to men surnamed McDonald, McDonnell, etc., showing how one Gaelic name will often have multiple anglicised forms. Some of the McDonnell in Ulster additional will have matches to the historic Gaelic Clan, Clann Mhic Dhónaill, or Clan Donnell as they are often called in Ireland. They were a Gallóglaigh and Redshank clan found in great numbers in the Glens of Antrim, but also in other parts of Ulster. There is also native Irish McDaniels that descend from the Fermanagh clan Kelly. It is also good to keep in mind when doing family history that many McDaniels will not have any known clan connections and will be the descendants of a man named Dónaill whose sons took his name, a case of simply patronymics. McDaniel, McDonnell, and McDonald is one of the most numerous surnames across Ulster. Posted by Barry R McCain at 18:16 No comments: Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest Labels: Ulster Surnames Monday, 1 February 2010 Henry Family of Draperstown, County Derry The Henry Family DNA project is hunting for descendants of Sir Denis Stanislaus Henry to participant in their family's DNA project. All direct male descendants and all collateral male Henry descendants are asked to contact the Henry Family DNA Project. Sir Denis Stanislaus Henry was born 7 March 1864, in Calhore, Draperstown, Co. Derry. His father James Henry was prosperous, being described at times as farmer, landlord, or businessman. James Henry's first wife was Mary McNamee and his second wife was Ellen Kelly, a daughter of Dr. Kelly from Derry who practiced in Draperstown for ten years. The marriage certificates which identify James Henry and his wives as Catholic. James had five children by his first marriage; a son, James, and four daughters. Denis Henry was one of seven children by his father's second marriage. The siblings of Sir Denis Henry were diverse in careers some went to the Church as nuns or priests with two brothers became attorneys. Sir Denis Henry's legal career was very successful, he became a Queen's Counsel in 1896, a Bencher of the King's Inns in 1898, and ultimately Father of the Northwest Circuit. By March 1905 he was a delegate at the inaugural meeting of the Ulster Unionist Council and the Unionist parliamentary candidate for the ultra-marginal North Tyrone seat. In 1918 he became Solicitor General for Ireland and in 1919 Attorney General for Ireland. He served as the first Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland from 1921 to 1925. In 1923 he was created a Baronet of Cahore in County Londonderry. Sir Denis Henry's father, James, died on 22 October 1880, aged 67, and his mother, Ellen, passed away on 3 October 1908, in her eightieth year. This Henry family has many ties and relations in Draperstown and the surrounding area. The Henry family of Sir Denis were cousins to the Henrys of Maghera, whose father Peter Henry was a famous Royal Navy Surgeon who served in the Napoleonic Wars and formed part of the medical team that was on St Helena during Napoleons stay there. Alexander Henry, son of Peter Henry, was an attorney in Maghera. All male descendants of Sir Denis Henry of Draperstown are encouraged to contact Doris Noland Parton, the administratrix of the Henry Surname DNA Project. Sir Denis Stanislaus Henry's remarkable career is the subject of an excellent biography available from the Ulster Historical Foundation. Posted by Barry R McCain at 16:15 No comments: Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest Labels: Ulster Surnames Thursday, 5 February 2009 The Moses McKane Mystery James McKane of Wiarton, Ontario, ask our readership assistance in solving the case of Moses McKane of Ontario. James is one of the leading genealogical experts in Canada and is well known as the webmaster of the Ulster Heritage website, which is a joint Canadian and American project. Jim asks our help in solving the curious case of Moses McKane. Moses McKane – The Mystery Man! By James A. McKane – jamckane@gmail.com After many years of hard work on my family tree, I could not get past James McKane (1799-1877), my great-great-grandfather, in my ancestry. At a Christmas family dinner about 1990, I cornered my Uncle Arthur McKane, by saying, “Uncle Art, I cannot find anything beyond old James – his parents, siblings, nothing! Do you know any little tidbits that might help me?” He responded with, “Well, you know, there was a brother, don’t you?” Uncle Art’s story claimed that on the voyage to Ontario, the family had to change ships in Montreal, Quebec. Old James’ brother, Moses McKane, supposedly became frustrated at the delay waiting on the second ship. He went to find work and was “never heard from again!” Hmmmmmmm! Interesting! Well, I searched every record I could think of on the internet unsuccessfully. Hoping to obtain a response from someone, I, even, posted Moses, as a brother to James McKane, on my family tree websites, as well as, notices on various email lists and forums. As for when they migrated to Ontario, I can only assume that the Census records are correct as being 1843. From 1832 to 1937, all migrants were quarantined at Gross Île, Quebec to prevent disease from entering Canada. Therefore, my McKanes should have been quarantined there, as well. However, I can find no record of any McKane, by various spellings, in the Gross Île archives. Therefore, I wonder if they came via the Hudson River and the Erie Canal through the United States? Finally, in 1997, I found a Moses McKane in a family tree by Steve Nelson from Ontario! Success? Maybe? Steve’s information referred me to Bruce County, Ontario with a large descendancy from Moses McKane’s three daughters. However, there was nothing to indicate any connection to my James McKane. In December 1998, we were at our cottage (now our home), near Wiarton, Ontario for a few days. My wife, Suzanne, wanted to go to Owen Sound shopping, but, I had no interest in shopping. So, I asked her to drop me at the Owen Sound Library until she was finished. There, I met a fellow-genealogist familiar with the library who asked what I was researching. Immediately, she began pulling books of the shelf saying, “You’ll want to check these ones first!” What a wonderful helper! I, immediately, began devouring the pile. After three hours of frustration, I came to a volume Green Meadows and Golden Sands: The History of Amabel Township [Bruce County, Ontario] 1851-1982. The index showed a reference to Moses McKane where I found; "James Davidson Jr. was married to Jane McKane, who had come from Ireland in 1843. With her had come her unmarried sister and her mother, Mrs. Moses McKane.” In the chapter before this quote was stated; “near Cheltenham in a stone house” which is in Peel County. I just about jumped out of my skin!! Cheltenham, Peel County! That is where all my McKanes lived, and some still do! >From there, I began my search for Moses McKane, in Chinguacousy Township, Peel County, Ontario. Over the course of the next many months and years, I found assessment and census records showing Moses McKane and family living on Lot 25, Concession 5, West of Hurontario Street, Chinguacousy Township from 1848 until at least 12 January 1852, when the 1851 Ontario Census was recorded. Yet, in the assessment rolls for 1843, 1845, 1846 and 1847 for Chinguacousy Twp., the property at Lot 25, Concession 5 West is not listed. This would indicate that it was not occupied yet. The 1851 Census, Canada West (now known as the Province of Ontario), Chinguacousy Township, Peel County, shows - Moses McCain, farmer, Ireland, Pres. Free [Presbyterian Free], age 56, male, married, one-storey log house, one person attending school; Ann McCain, Ireland, Pres. Free, 46, female, married; Jain McCain, Ireland, Pres. Free, 15, female; Ann McCain, Ireland, Pres. Free, 13, female; Mary McCain, Ireland, Pres. Free, 6, female. A land record film shows the Patent [document of ownership issued to the first legal owner of the property] on this property was issued in 1852 to John Henderson. This means that the Canada Company still had control of the land when Moses and his family lived there. Therefore, it is safe to assume that he was attempting to homestead the land but failed to complete the necessary improvements. Otherwise, he would have had the Patent in his name. So, somewhere between when the Census was taken on 12 January 1852 and the Patent being issued to John Henderson, the McKane family vacated the property. The 1861 Census, Chinguacousy Twp., Peel Co. shows Ann [Nancy] McKane, labourer, born Ireland, religion 'U-F', age next birthday 50, female, widow, living in a one-storey log house, one cow, one pig, value of livestock 30, 1 acre of property. The section of census film showing the location is of very poor quality. Therefore, I was unable to determine the exact location. However, she lived somewhere near Cheltenham at that time. The Mystery >From 1848 to 1852, Moses McKane lived less than a mile from his brother, James (my gggrandfather)! James McKane lived on Lot 22, Concession 4 WHS, which is only three lots south on the same road! Yet, according to my Uncle Art, “He [Moses] was never heard from again???” Questions Where was Moses McKane between 1843, when they emigrated and 1848, when he lived near his brother, James. Did Moses McKane, in fact, die in 1852? If so, where is he buried? OR, did he simply abandon the family? Many times in those days, a woman would call herself a widow if her husband left her? Who were the parents of Moses and James McKane? Equally as interesting would be…..Why did my side of the family deny any knowledge of Moses when they lived so close to him? I would appreciate any assistance on this brick wall! Please contact: - James McKane 528 Mallory Beach Rd., R.R.5 Wiarton, Ontario N0H 2T0 Canada Email: jamckane@gmail.com Website: http://www.jamesmckane.com Posted by Barry R McCain at 10:26 No comments: Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest Labels: Canada, Ulster Surnames Thursday, 4 September 2008 The Lyons Family Reunion in Ontario The Lyons family of Donagheady Praish, Tyrone, are having a splendid gathering in Ontario on 14 September, details below: The descendants of James Lyons (1775-1851) and Elizabeth Hewson (1792-1852) will hold their triennial reunion at Club 24, 1835 Wellington Co. Rd. 124, Eramosa, Ontario on Sunday, September 14th, 2008 at 11:30 a.m. above, the Lyons family circa 1890s The day will include lunch, games for the children and a talk by Jim McKane on the family genealogy and advancements in DNA testing as related the family's ancestry. Admission is $10 for adults and $3.00 for children. James Lyons and Elizabeth Hewson emigrated from Donagheady Parish, Co. Tyrone, North Ireland c. 1833. They purchased a farm in Chinguacousy Twp., Peel Co., Ontario in 1833. To date, their genealogy includes over 2800 descendants. Posted by Barry R McCain at 10:48 No comments: Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest Labels: Ulster Genealogy, Ulster Surnames Sunday, 17 August 2008 The McCanes of County Laois One of the joys of running the Ulster Heritage DNA Project is meeting people in Ulster or that have Ulster roots. Our readers have perhaps noticed a bias toward McCain news, this is not by design, rather the McCain family DNA project was the first large and successful projects that used Y chromosome DNA testing to locate family members in the Diaspora and Ireland. It was the prototype project in many ways and its success was the nucleus from which the Ulster project grew. This is why so many McCain families appear in our news. They are not all the same family however. There are at least five McCain 'clans' that have been located. Some are Irish and others are Scottish or Manx. There are the McCains of Antrim and Donegal from which Senator John McCain is a descendant. Other McCains descend from the McDonald clan chiefs. Another other source of McCains in Ulster is the very old and distinguished Ó Catháin clan of Derry and north Antrim. Via DNA tests we confirmed that some of the Ó Catháin branches anglicised their surnames as McCain, McCane, etc., in addition to the more common O'Kane, Keane, etc. We also have noticed the surname Mac Canna being anglicised as McCain and the surname of Mac Eáin in turn sometimes being anglicised as McCann rather than the normal McCain. It is complex, but with DNA testing we can thankfully sort out who is who. In the photo above are two participants in our DNA project, Aidan McCane of Portlaoise , County Laois Ireland and Dr Giles Keane of Dartmouth , Devon U.K. (formerly of Co. Clare). Dr Keane's family is listed in Burkes Peerage and they have Family Seats at Clare and Waterford. Aidan McCane and Dr Keane met to discuss some of the finer points of McCane and Keane genealogy and explore possible links between the two families. Aidan McCane's family has a fascinating and true oral history of being from the North, either Ulster or the Isles, and the patriarch of their family coming south to fight in the Battle of Kinsale in 1601. During the retreat north after the battle their man settled in Porlaoise giving rise to the McCane clan of that district. I think John McKane the well known UK country musician is also of this line. DNA confirmed Aidan McCane's people belong to the famous Niall of the Nine Hostages haplogroup and his closest DNA matches are to two men surname Cain and McCann. The Cain participant is a descendant of the family of Manus Rua Ó Catháin, the famous Irish commander that lead a regiment under Montrose. Barry R McCain (c) 2008 Posted by Barry R McCain at 09:09 No comments: Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest Labels: Ulster Surnames Older Posts Home Subscribe to: Posts (Atom) Facebook Share The Laggan Redshanks The Highland Scots in West Ulster Strabane & West Ulster In The 1800s click on book to purchase The Stewarts of Ballintoy To Purchase Click On Book Ulster Heritage Prints & Posters History of Donaghead Parish, Tyrone Click on book to purchase Popular Posts Ulster Heritage Forum Now Open The Ulster Heritage Forum is now open. It is a service open to all with Ulster ancestry. The forum's moderator is Jim McKane of Wiarto... John Wayne, Scots-Irish Icon In one interview in the early 1950's John Wayne described himself as 'just a Scotch-Irish little boy.' John Wayne, or as he w... Ulster's Mitochondrial DNA mtDNA and my Ulster heritage by Harry D. Watson After about 30 years of tracing my family-history by the traditional "paper-trail... The Kilt In Ireland Is the kilt Irish…. was the kilt ever worn in Ireland? The answer to this question is a very simple yes, of course, but even simple answer... The Second Sight The Second Sight, or an dara sealladh , is one of the more curious, but constant cultural phenomenons, in Celtic lands and those places wher... Ulster Heritage Forum Jim McKane of Wiarton, Ontario, Canada, is the webmaster of the Ulster Heritage Project and runs the Ulster Heritage Forum. The Forum is a... The Galloglass Today above a German sketch of Gallóglaigh warriors with two attendants, from the 1500s The Galloglass, more properly called the Gallóglaigh (... 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For families who participate in the Ulster Heritage DNA Project, the surname reports incorporate DNA matches and can provide a better understanding of the results. <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]-->To order one contact: UH Surname Reports <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--> ULSTER LINKS Colaiste Árainn Mhóir Colmcille Dictionar o the Scots Leid Glens Music, County Antrim Mid Argyll Kinship Group North Antrim Local Interest Raidió na Gaeltachta Redshank Scots-Irish Blog Scots-Irish Blog State of the Ozarks the 1718 Migration The Finn Valley Voice The Ulster Heritage DNA Project Ulster Heritage Web Site Ultach Spicy Ulster Links Bloggin fae the 'Burn McCain's Corner North Antrim Local Interest List Slugger O'Toole Ulster Clans and Families Brogran Family Diamond Clan Gallagher Clan Henry Family Knox Families Mac Lochlainn MacFarlane Clan McCain Clan McCown Family McGinley Clan McGuire Clan McQuillan Clan McShane Clan Molloy Family O'Donnell clan O'Kane Clan Sweeney Clan Tweedy Family Ulster Heritage Clans Ó Dochartaigh Ó Néill Clan Subscribe Posts Atom Posts All Comments Atom All Comments Speakers Available Barry R McCain is available for speaking engagements on Ulster history and culture and for workshops on Irish and Scottish genetic genealogy. 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When looking at a population of hundreds of lineages, generations per century may be a floating concept; some lineages will coalesce around 3 while others will coalesce around 4 and even 5. Using 2 pedigrees with expectation to extrapolate the information as such into a population at large isn't exactly advised. I hope this discussion isn't intended to ramp up TMRCA or STR wars and I'll not engage in that; however in that regard, when using statistical considerations for estimating TMRCA for a population at large in which there is varying generation lengths, the averages must be used for statistical purposes. Each method will incorporate into the method of calculation a generation length constant; in that regard, however it makes little difference whether or not the generation length is 3 or 4 per century to calculate the TMRCA. Most generation length averages will be tied to a mutation rate constant for calculating purposes and all are subject to a standard deviation as well as all statistical considerations are. If using a pedigrees, counting generations and attempting to achieve by such how old that pedigree is within the genealogical period is one thing. If using a statistical method to calculate ages using the haplotypes or a combination of SNPs and haplotypes, that is another thing all together, and one uses the average generation length the method calls for. If calculating a lineage or groups of lineages, the genealogies are used as a cross check and calibration of the method is advised. This calibration may then be undertaken (if adjustment is necessary) either by the method of mutation count, adjusting the mutation rate constant or both. Rarely have I ever had to adjust a mutation rate constant as the mutation count method adjustment is generally sufficient to accomplish the task. I also might add that calculating a lineage and calculating a population have different considerations and are approached to meet those considerations. Susan Hedeen On 5/18/2014 10:37 AM, Bernard Morgan wrote: >> So, we have two independent pedigrees which indicate that the generation >> time M222 people are interested in was a lot closer to 3 generations per >> century than to 4 generations per century. Incidentally, I could show that >> 3 generations per century held up over different parts of my pedigree - in >> Iceland , in the USA and Canada and in ancient Ireland. >

The tree Colla's are regarded as Mythical, leaving aside that there supposed floruit is 4th/5th centuries. The genealogy has been fabricated to give the Oirialla (Airghialla) a lineage that connected into the Dál Cuind (Dál Cuinn aka: Connachta and Uí Néill) -Paul (DF41+) On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 10:46 PM, David Maclennan < david.maclennan@utoronto.ca> wrote: > I just found a website that has a section entitled 43 Generations: from > Colla Uais to Frank Everett McDonald, Jr. (#133546). Colla Uais was one of > the three Collas, born in Ireland in the 4th century. Frank McDonald was > born in 1926 in Virginia, USA. > > http://www.peterspioneers.com/colla.htm#mcdonald > > Previously, I posted my 47 generation icelandic-Irish pedigree between my > birth in 1937 and Niall's birth. At 3 generations per century, the number > that my pedigree indicated, Niall would have been born 1567 years before > me, in 370 CE, in the 4th century when he is widely believed to have been > born. > > However, if the calculation were done with 25 generations per century, it > would have placed Niall¹s birth 1175 years before mine, in 762 CE, in the > 8th century. > > > Using the same calculation for Frank McDonald, at 3 generations per > century, Colla Uais would have been born 1433 years before Frank McDonald, > in 492 CE, in the 5th century. > > However, if the calculation were done with 25 generations per century, it > would have placed Colla Uais¹ birth 1175 years before Frank McDonald, in > 851 CE, in the 9th century. > > > So, we have two independent pedigrees which indicate that the generation > time M222 people are interested in was a lot closer to 3 generations per > century than to 4 generations per century. Incidentally, I could show that > 3 generations per century held up over different parts of my pedigree - in > Iceland , in the USA and Canada and in ancient Ireland. > > David > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi David, Here's some other independent pedigrees with the same results. I have a paper genealogy trail back to Niall also that consists of 49 generations, and I was born the year before you (1936) or 1566 years after Niall. Dividing this out gives 32 years per generation or about 3 generations per century. This line goes thru Niall's son Eoghan. Another line I have goes through son Connal Cremthann and consists of 51 generations. This line yields 30.7 years per generation. Dividing your results out gives 33.3 years per generation. So there you have it; 3 lines with 3 different answers but all much closer to 3 generations per century than 4. I thought perhaps in more recent times the years per generation would be lower, but looking at my last 10 generations (all in the US) I get 327 years or 32.7 years per generation; no difference. Can anyone produce numbers that support 25 years per generation? Brad On 5/17/2014 4:46 PM, David Maclennan wrote: > I just found a website that has a section entitled 43 Generations: from > Colla Uais to Frank Everett McDonald, Jr. (#133546). Colla Uais was one of > the three Collas, born in Ireland in the 4th century. Frank McDonald was > born in 1926 in Virginia, USA. > > http://www.peterspioneers.com/colla.htm#mcdonald > > Previously, I posted my 47 generation icelandic-Irish pedigree between my > birth in 1937 and Niall's birth. At 3 generations per century, the number > that my pedigree indicated, Niall would have been born 1567 years before > me, in 370 CE, in the 4th century when he is widely believed to have been > born. > > However, if the calculation were done with 25 generations per century, it > would have placed Niall¹s birth 1175 years before mine, in 762 CE, in the > 8th century. > > > Using the same calculation for Frank McDonald, at 3 generations per > century, Colla Uais would have been born 1433 years before Frank McDonald, > in 492 CE, in the 5th century. > > However, if the calculation were done with 25 generations per century, it > would have placed Colla Uais¹ birth 1175 years before Frank McDonald, in > 851 CE, in the 9th century. > > > So, we have two independent pedigrees which indicate that the generation > time M222 people are interested in was a lot closer to 3 generations per > century than to 4 generations per century. Incidentally, I could show that > 3 generations per century held up over different parts of my pedigree - in > Iceland , in the USA and Canada and in ancient Ireland. > > David > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I just found a website that has a section entitled 43 Generations: from Colla Uais to Frank Everett McDonald, Jr. (#133546). Colla Uais was one of the three Collas, born in Ireland in the 4th century. Frank McDonald was born in 1926 in Virginia, USA. http://www.peterspioneers.com/colla.htm#mcdonald Previously, I posted my 47 generation icelandic-Irish pedigree between my birth in 1937 and Niall's birth. At 3 generations per century, the number that my pedigree indicated, Niall would have been born 1567 years before me, in 370 CE, in the 4th century when he is widely believed to have been born. However, if the calculation were done with 25 generations per century, it would have placed Niall¹s birth 1175 years before mine, in 762 CE, in the 8th century. Using the same calculation for Frank McDonald, at 3 generations per century, Colla Uais would have been born 1433 years before Frank McDonald, in 492 CE, in the 5th century. However, if the calculation were done with 25 generations per century, it would have placed Colla Uais¹ birth 1175 years before Frank McDonald, in 851 CE, in the 9th century. So, we have two independent pedigrees which indicate that the generation time M222 people are interested in was a lot closer to 3 generations per century than to 4 generations per century. Incidentally, I could show that 3 generations per century held up over different parts of my pedigree - in Iceland , in the USA and Canada and in ancient Ireland. David

_Lee records_ (http://homepage.eircom.net/~leeea/Records.htm) Records of the surnames Lee/Ley/Leigh in Ireland by Mr Enda A Lee Surnames were not used prior to about the tenth or eleventh century and were not universally in use until the fourteenth or fifteenth; up to then a person's second name was descriptive or locative, or, more usually in Ireland, the first name of their father, after a prefix 'Mac' (son of...) or 'Ní' or 'Nic' (daughter of...). The prefix 'O' usually referred to a deceased grandfather or great-grandfather. An enlarged family with a common surname in Ireland is termed a sept; never a clan, as is the case in Scotland, where society was structured in a different manner. Identity of surname does not, by any means, indicate relationship, and there are several distinct and separate origins for the Lee surname, some Irish and some Anglo-Norman or English. Gaelic versions In the Irish versions, the 'O' and 'Mac' were dropped, due to social and administrative pressures, and the spelling was phonetically rendered to the nearest English equivalent, in this case, 'Lee', from the time of the Tudor conquests onwards; by unsympathetic officials who had little knowledge of Irish culture, or the language; or sometimes by individuals who wished to deny their origins. The possible Irish sources are: Mac an Leagha, (son of the physician), which originates in Galway, where the sept provided hereditary physicians to the O'Flaherty family of Galway where there is a townland called Lee's Island - in the Parish of Killanin, Oughterard. The name Mac Lee occurs in north Connacht. Not all Lea/Lees in Connacht have the same origins; during the Cromwellian land confiscations, some Irish people of the name Lea and Ley were transported from Wexford and Kilkenny respectively, to west of the Shannon; Mac Laoidhigh, (son of the poet), of Laois, written Lea in Pender's census of 1659; O'Laoidhigh or O'Laidhigh, which has the same meaning, ie 'of the poet', with two sources, either Galway or Cork/Limerick. This family seems to be the strongest numerically, and this is the spelling (sometimes abbreviated to O'Laoí, which is the only gaelic version in the telephone book) given to most of us at school; MacAlee/MacLea/MacClay, from Antrim, which is Mac an Leagha (son of the physician) when of Irish origin, or, probably less likely, the Scottish clan of Stewart of Appin, which had a small sept using the name Mac Lea or Mac Lay, with the same meaning; MacKinley, which is of Scottish origin, and is sometimes written Lee in anglicised versions, mostly in Antrim; McCloy, sometimes anglicised to McCloy, and thence to Lee is Mac Giolla Eachaidh. Giolla is a follower of ..., and Eachaidh (from Saint Eachaidh - Oghy; or in English Aghy - of Clones) was a once popular personal name strongly associated with Clones, co Monaghan; (Liath) [According to one writer on the subject of names, Fr P Woulfe, the name Grey or Gray, usually of English or Scottish origin, was translated into Irish as Liath, which sometimes became anglicised as Lee (in Irish placenames, 'lee' usually means 'grey'). In Longford and Leitrim, a branch of the O'Rourkes became Mac Cathail Riabhaigh, (Mac Culreavy) meaning 'son of gray/grizzled Charles'. The epithet 'gray' supplanted the O'Rourke surname, and some families of this name became Gray. It is by no means clear, however, that these same O'Rourkes/Grays made the transition from Gray to Liath and thence to Lee. The Liath origin is described only by Woulfe, who may have been attempting, for patriotic reasons, to find an Irish root for a name which was of English origin, as he has done in other instances. However, the word 'Liath' or 'Lea', meaning grey, is sometimes used after the given, or christian name of Irish men, and is descriptive, in the same way as Rua, or Buí; for example, at Loughmaguife, in Clogher barony, county Tyrone, one of the Irish tenants in 1613, that is, after the plantation, was Thomas Lea McMahun; and some of the de Burgo family were known by names such as the Brown Earl and the Red Earl, and the latter's cousin was William 'Liath' de Burgo, who lived in the early part of the fourteenth century.] There are virtually no records prior to about 1830-50, of the Catholic Irish, except where sufficient information is available about individuals to enable a search to be made in the records of a particular location. Saxon and Anglo-Norman versions There are also Saxon and Anglo-Norman versions of the name, which are spelt Lae, Lay, Laye, Lea, Lee, Legh, Leigh, Leighe, Ley, Leys, Ly, Lye, Lyes, de Lega, and de Ley. These arose from about the thirteenth century onwards, and early examples from England are; Emma de la Leye, Richard de la Legh, Robert de la Lee, William de la Lea, Petronella de la Le. Sometimes, more than one spelling was used by an individual during his or her lifetime, or by different members of the same family, and it may be that those named were unaware of the 'correct' spelling, or were indifferent to it, as is illustrated by the following records for one man; Ley, Michael, Pensioner. (Mr Folds, Carrick), May 23, 1722, aged 18; son of Richard, gent; born co Tyrone. This is the entry for his admission to the University of Trinity College, which obviously required at least a basic level of literacy. Leigh, Michael, BA Spring 1726. This is the entry for his graduation from Trinity. Lee, Michael, Cootehill, co. Cavan. Will dated 1791. This name is presumably the signature from his will. His family also used or was given, these and other spellings. Norman versions: de Lega, de Leye After the Anglo-Norman invasion in 1169, settlers whose names were written in Latin as de Lega or de Leye, which is de Léigh (as Gaeilge), came to the east and south, in Limerick, Kilkenny, Wexford and Waterford. The nature of society in Ireland of the time was that the native people lived in the countryside, so that unless they were landowners, these settlers were typically townspeople. The name Ley may be Norman or Saxon, and the Normans had tenants in Ireland whose surnames indicate origins in the area around the Bristol channel, that is, south Wales, and Devon and Cornwall. They were living in Ireland at the time of the Reformation, and with some exceptions, they remained Catholic. Lea/Leah/Lee/Leigh Many people in Ireland with the name Lee are of English planter stock. The name in England is a toponymic, that is, deriving from the name of a location, eg, a grassy clearing in a forest (Anglo-Norman), or a lea field, a pasture, (English); or a placename Lea or Leigh; or a sheltered spot, a 'lee'. It is impossible to distinguish between the variations. The Saxons described someone as 'at' or 'atte' the place which gave them their name, so that the old English form was 'at Lee', which gives rise to the names 'Atlee/Atlay', 'A'ley' and 'Lee'. Surnames ending in -ley or -leigh, may refer to a feature, typically the animals, or trees, which were associated with the location from whence the name derived, such as Horsley, Cowley, Kinley, Oxley/Oxly, and (deer) Hartley, Rowley, Buckley, Hindley, (fox) Foxley, including one John de Foxlee, (hare) Harley, (sheep) Shipley, (and trees) Ashley, Elmsley, Oakley, Lindley, or Berkeley. Another interesting example which seems at first to be Irish, is Ryley: rye-ley. The Normans, who spoke French, described a person as 'de la Ley', later shortened to Lay/Ley/Lye; possibly from one of the many places in France named 'Laye', which is derived from La Haie which is 'the hedge'. [De Haie has also become Day, and Hayes.] The sixteenth and seventeenth century planters were Protestant, with some converts to Catholicism in later generations, particularly outside of Ulster. They were typically substantial property owners, and for the second and subsequent sons, who did not inherit the family property, they often had military careers and rank, or became lawyers or clergymen. They normally used 'English' first-names such as Edward, William and Robert, for their children. Distribution of Lees in Ireland A survey of surnames by Matheson, the Registrar of Births, Marriages and Deaths, in 1890, found Lee to be very scattered in Ireland, with an estimated 5400 individuals, based on 120 births [118 Lee, and two variants; Lea, presumably, as Lees - 2 Ulster, 2 Leinster, and 2 Munster - and Leigh - 8 Leinster - are treated separately], but with 50 per cent concentrated in Dublin, Limerick, Galway, and Antrim. This pattern of concentration is broadly faithful to the origins of the Gaelic versions, with a logical reflection in the capital city, but it does not shed much light on the Lee families living elsewhere. However, it highlights one important fact; that before the end of the nineteenth century, there was very little movement of native people from one part of the country to another, notwithstanding the famine and earlier conquests and invasions. 'Lee' is the spelling used for most of the other versions since about the middle of the last century, with the possible exception of any titled or propertied families. Lee was the 47th most common name in England and Wales in 1853; it is not as common in Scotland, where it is regarded as of English origin, although there is a Lee castle in Lanark (probably named for its geographic location). In the USA, it was the 35th most common surname in 1980; however, this includes oriental versions. Lees Where it is not Lee misspelt, the surname Lees is derived from the name Leese, which means 'dweller by the pasture', which is similar to the origin of some of the variations for Lee. In early records, with other surnames, the addition of '-s' or '-es', denotes possession or association, so that the servant of, or the widow of, a man named Lee might have had the name Lees (ie Lee's). It may also derive from Leece, and Gillies, (one of the origins of the more common Gillespie). Bibliography and Sources Bardsley, Rev Charles Wareing Endell, MA; English Surnames Their Sources and Significations David and Charles Reprints Bell, Robert; The Book of Ulster Surnames 1997 MacLysaght, E; Irish Families; More Irish Families; Supplement to Irish Families; Bibliography of Irish Family History; Irish Surnames Reaney and Wilson, A Dictionary of English Surnames 1995

Yeah, this all comes down to being a community project. You took the tests, you paid your money and so now toss those test results into the community pool. Or in other words, you are an M222? Ha! Big deal! But just what could that mean? And so now join the community. After all, we are an extended family, all of us. On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 1:23 PM, Iain Kennedy <ikennedy_msdn2@hotmail.com>wrote: > > Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 15:02:31 -0400 > > From: chantillycarpets@earthlink.net > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [R-M222] data sheets...with request for information > > > > > > I would ask that Iain confirm the major M222 down stream SNPs for each > > of the BIGY and FGC that he is looking at by actual SNP label. > > If the sequencing isn't testing XYZ SNPs that is important to know--if > > the opposite is true, that also is important to know. This goes to the > > viability of the tests involved. > > > This is already in the tree I maintain. Of course some individuals were > already placed from Chromo2 and got slightly more accurate information eg > they got good calls from it for S660 and S659 whereas that wasn't always > mirrored by the corresponding BigY test. I don't think anyone has bothered > about that since those SNPs are in the same box in the tree anyway. One > Ewing did a followup test for S603 as it wasn't in the BigY coverage. The > issues about lack of coverage of FGC4077/8 are well known and FGC4087 > appears to be a good substitute. Everyone who got that from BigY has > followed up and confirmed the other two. I don't think there are any > significant loose ends in this respect. > > As far as sharing info those who have shared Chromo2 or BigY with me have > done so on an open basis and all have been published. Likewise every test > result from the FGC4077/8 group I have heard of has been published, the > only exception being some intermediate Kennedy project results where we are > still homing in on the final terminal SNP, at which point they will also be > published. > > It's perhaps a good time to point out that analysing a BigY result without > sharing is impossible since it revolves around comparisons between all the > others both in the same branch and other branches. Two way sharing between > all parties is implicit. Particularly given the unhelpful breakdown of > 'known' and 'novel' SNPs FTDNA have issued so far. > > > Iain > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

86993 Duncan Joseph Duncan, 1710, 1793, VA USAR-M222 1325141111-12121211121428179-1111112515183015-15-16-17111119-231715191738-40121211915-16810108101 01221-23161012121681226201312111311111212 236057 McConnachie William McConaughey, b. ~1785, Donaghmore, DonegalR-M222 1325141111-12121211121428179-1111112515183015-15-16-17111119-231716191739-39121211915-1681010810101221-231610121216812262013121113111112123415916122426 191211121211913121011113012132413101022151913241713152412231810141791211 63792 Ashley 2RNBW - Robert ASHLEY, c1797 SCR-M222 1325141111-12121211121428179-1111112515183015-15-16-17111119-231716191740-40121211915-16810 On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 7:11 AM,< GAshley923@aol.com> wrote: > > > >> The history of this ancient Perthshire family traces its ancestry as a > >> family of > >> Dalriadian origin before the year 1100 and appears first in the ancient > >> records > >> in Perthshire. A book on Ulster surnames, found at the Carnegie Library in > >> Pittsburgh, gives the following information on the name: (please forgive > >> me for > >> not keeping the book name for reference) ???The MacConaghy, MacConkey, > >> MacDonagh, > >> Donaghy and Duncan names all stem from the Scots and Irish Gaelic personal > >> name > >> Donnchadh, meaning ???brown warrior??? (from donn and cath). This gives > >> the personal > >> names Donagh in Ireland and Duncan in Scotland. In Ireland, the > >> MacDonaghs, > >> Gaelic Mac Donnchadha, are most numerous in Connacht where they are a > >> branch of > >> the MacDermots. A variant of MacDonagh in counties Tyrone and Derry is Mac > >> Donnchaidh, which was anglicised first to MacDonaghy and then Donaghy. In > >> Co > >> Fermanagh, it is thought that most Donaghys descent from Donnchadh > >> Ceallach > >> Maguire, who led the Maguire conquest of Clakelly in the mid-fifteenth > >> century. > >> However, the Scottich Clan Robertson of Atholl in Perthshire was equally > >> well > >> known as Clan Donnachie, Gaelic Clann Donnchaidh, after its chief Fat > >> Duncan > >> (Donncha Reamhar) de Atholia who lived at the time of Robert the Bruce in > >> the > >> fourteenth century and led the clan at the Battle of Bannockburn in 1314. > >> The > >> MacConachies (also MacConaghy and MacConkey) were a sept of Clan > >> Robertson, > >> their family name in Gaelic being Mac Dhonnchaidh. (the ???h??? after > >> the ???D??? makes > >> it silent, thus sounding as Mac???onachie.) Also, after the 1745 > >> rebellion, many > >> members of Clan Robertson adopted the name Donachie to conceal their > >> identity. > >> There were also several MacConochie septs of Clan Campbell, one of which, > >> the > >> MacConachies of Inverawe in Argyllshire, descend from the > >> fourteenth-century > >> Duncan or Donachie Campbell of Lochow. The Clan Gregor MacConachies > >> descend from > >> the three sons of Duncan, seventeenth chief of MacGregor, by his second > >> wife. > >> There was also an old sept of Macconachies on the island of Bute. In > >> Ulster all > >> this becomes very complicated. As has already been stated, Donaghy is also > >> an > >> Irish name. Duncan, though a Scottish name used as an aglicisation of > >> Donachie > >> and MacConachie, has also in Ulster been used for the Irish Donaghy, as > >> well as > >> Donegan and Dinkin. MacConaghy has been noted as a synonym for Conaty, > >> MacConaughty, MacConnerty and even Quinn. > >> Within Ulster, MacConaghy and MacConkey are mostly found in Co. Antrim. > >> Donaghy > >> is most common in counties Antrim, Derry and Tyrone and Duncan in counties > >> Antrim and Tyrone. MacDonagh is most numerous in Fermanagh.?? > >> Some McConnaghy???s believe themselves to be Irish, some consider > >> themselves > >> Scotch. My theory is that, obviously, we can be either or both, > >> considering that > >> the area called Ulster included both Scotland and Ireland in ancient > >> times, and > >> MacConahy???s and variants are found across that land. Not to mention > >> that many > >> moved from Ireland to Scotland to escape certain wars. I think it is safer > >> to > >> say Scotch-Irish for most of us. > >> Some variations of our name include: McConnaughey, McConnaughay, > >> McConaughy, > >> McConnaughhay, McConahy, McConnahie, McConaha, McConahay, McConahea, > >> MacConahie, > >> MacConaghy, McConaghy, McConnaghy, McConaty, McConnaghty, McConachie, > >> McConaghy, > >> McConaghie, McConaughey, McConahey, McConahe, etc. > >> This variety of spellings, above, does not confine itself to one > >> particular > >> family. Indeed, any one particular McConnaughy family, could be found > >> under half > >> a dozen or more spellings, so it is no good insisting that a name was > >> always > >> spelled a certain way. People often could not read or write, so had no > >> idea how > >> to spell their own name. It depended on the whim, or knowledge of the > >> scribe who > >> wrote it down, as to how it might be spelled. > >> Should any of you have additional information on the name, or your > >> particular > >> spelling, please pass along the information so that we can share it in a > >> future > >> newsletter > >> > >> > >> _http://genforum.genealogy.com/mcconnaughey/messages/190.html_ > >> (http://genforum.genealogy.com/mcconnaughey/messages/190.html) > >> ShareThis Page Scots-Irish Origins, 1600-1800 A.D. Genealogical gleanings of the Scots-Irish in county Londonderry, Ireland. PART TWO – THE PLANTATION OF LONDONDERRY, c.1600-1670 INCLUDING APPENDICES: 1. PHILLIPS’ SURVEY OF 1622 AND THE 1630 MUSTER ROLL OF THE CITY AND COUNTY OF LONDONDERRY. 2. THE SUMMONISTER ROLLS/COURT RECORDS OF COUNTY LONDONDERRY, 1615-70. By Bob Forrest, B.A Hons; Economic and Social History (Queen’s University, Belfast). 65 pages + 3 maps + 1 illust. Part two in the series Scots-Irish origins, this volume focuses on the seventeenth century plantation of county Londonderry and makes available for the first time two important genealogical sources, the 1630 Muster Roll and the Summonister (Court) Rolls c.1615-1670 for county Londonderry. Mr. Forrest has utilised the Summonister Court Rolls, the 1622 survey by Phillips and Hadsor, the 1630 muster roll and the 1641 depositions to write a short history of the ‘Plantation of Londonderry c.1600-1670.’ He traces the development of the Londoners’ twelve plantations, as well as the growth of urbanization within the county focussing primarily on Londonderry, Coleraine and Limavady. In his history of the Londonderry plantation, Mr. Forrest attempts to trace the origins and development of the Scottish colony in Londonderry in the early seventeenth century. Although the early plantation was undoubtedly English in character, Londonderry was attractive to the Scottish given its close proximity and the ease of mobility given the trade links that had been developed between the ports of Derry and Coleraine with Scotland’s western seaboard. Mr. Forrest traces several migratory waves of Scots colonists during the seventeenth century. Many of the settlers were, undoubtedly, economic migrants forced to leave Scotland with its expanding population, rising prices and rising unemployment. The increasing numbers of Scots, especially from 1630, was vital to the maintenance of the plantation. The response of the rural inhabitants in Scotland to the Plantation was in sharp contrast to that in rural England where relatively few people opted to move to Ulster. The surveys of 1619 and 1622 reveal that the English settlement was small and in decline even before the devastating impact of the native uprising in 1641. The diminution of the English colony contrasts significantly with rise of the Scottish presence. Mr. Forrest argues that without the continuous migration of Scottish settlers, the Londonderry plantation would undoubtedly have failed. However, by the end of the seventeenth century a self sustaining settlement of British colonists (primarily Scots-Irish) had established itself in the county. The roll of the individual is also analysed, especially the contribution of Sir Thomas Phillips, the servitor responsible for the new town of Limavady, and he was also an overseer of the Plantation. Sir Robert McClelland of Bombie, Kirkcudbright, Scotland became a major landlord controlling the Haberdashers’ and Clothworkers’ proportions from 1618/19, which in effect was a massive estate that ran from Coleraine into the heart of the Roe Valley at Limavady, which became a bridgehead for Scottish entry into the north of the county, thus facilitating a process known as ‘colonial spread’. This book contains the names of hundreds of British settlers and native Irish from the early seventeenth century, which will be of enormous interest to genealogists, family and local historians alike. In this volume, there is a transcript of the Summonister Court Rolls for County Londonderry, which are extant for the period 1615-1670 (Appendix 2). The rolls appear to be fairly intact apart from a lengthy interval from 1641-1653, which reflects the impact of the native rising upon administration. The rolls are a useful source of surnames containing as they do, hundreds of names (629 variant surnames) of those English, Scots and Irish who came to the attention of the courts and provide a local window through which we can view life in seventeenth century Londonderry. The 1630 muster roll lists the names of 1,930 British men of arms-bearing age (Appendix 1) and identifies their location in the county. The local historian will also find much of interest in the Summonister Rolls, the 1622 survey, the 1630 muster roll and the deposition material, which contain much detail at the micro-historical level. This volume makes these unique sources available for the first time in a collective account. VALUABLE SOURCE OF SURNAMES: In this book are the names of many Lowland Scots who migrated to Londonderry during the seventeenth century. These early settlers can be considered to be the founding fathers of the Scots-Irish in the region. One hundred years later, after the first colonies of British settlers were established in both Virginia and Londonderry, the descendants of Ulster planters began to emigrate in increasing numbers to the colonies of New England, Pennsylvania, Virginia and the Carolinas. Between 1718 and the War of Independence, half a million Scots-Irish left Ulster for the British colonies in North America. Many of their forbears can trace their origins to the early period of British settlement in county Londonderry. Surnames can provide much useful insight, if not proof, of family origins in Ireland and this volume now brings those Scots-Irish pioneers within the grasp of the researcher. There are 1,727 variant surnames contained in this volume that locate name to place including: (HIGHLIGHTED in bold the Scots names using 'Black's surnames of Scotland') ACKIN, ACORNE, ADAM, ADAMS, ADAMSON, ADERTON, AKEE, AKENHEAD, AKIN, ALCOCK, ALEXANDERS, ALLAN, ALLEN, ALLESTER, ALLET, ALLSON, ALLYSON, ALSEN, ALSON, ALWELL, ANDERSON, ANDREW, ANDREWE, ANDREWES, ANTHONY, APHUGH, APPLEBY, APPLETON, ARBUCKLE, ARCHER, ARCHY, ARMESTRON, ARMESTRONG ARMOUR, ARMSHAW, ARMSTRONG, ARTHUR, ASBY, ASHE, ASHLEY, ASKEY, ASTRY, ATKIN, ATKINSON, AUSTEN AUSTIN, AVERIE, AVERY, AXFIELD, BACON, BAILY, BAIRD, BAKER, BAKERNE, BALER, BALIFF, BALL, BALLAS, BALLY, BAR, BARABY, BARBER, BARD, BARDE, BARNEFIELD, BARNES, BARKER, BARLO, BARLOW, BARNSLY, BARR, BARRABY, BARRAT, BARRY, BARTELY, BARTEYN, BARWICK, BASLY, BASSET, BASSLY, BASTARD, BATH, BAYLY, BAYRD, BEAGHAN, BEARD, BEATCH, BEATY, BEAUMONT, BEERES, BEGARD, BEGGY, BELL, BEN, BENE, BENNET, BENNETT, BENSON, BERESFORD, BERRINGTON, BERRY, BERRYMAN, BESS, BETTY, BETSON, BEVERLIN, BEYLANDS, BEYLEY, BICK, BICKERSTAFFE, BIGART, BIGGARD, BIGGER, BIGNALL, BINGLEY, BIPSON, BIRBECK, BIRCH, BIRKET, BIRKETT, BLACK, BLACKER, BLACKHORNE, BLACKWOOD, BLAIR, BLANCHET, BLAND, BLANY, BLARE, BLUNKET, BLYTH, BOCHANAN, BODKIN, BOG, BOGG, BOLLE, BONE, BOOTH, BORES, BORROWES, BOTKIN, BOUGHAN, BOULDEN, BOUNTAINE, BOURKE, BOURSTON, BOWEN, BOWLE, BOWSER, BOYD, BOYDE, BOYER, BOYES, BOYLE, BRADFORD, BRADING, BRADNEY, BRADPOOLT, BRADY, BRAME. BRAMPSON, BRAMPTON, BRAMSLIN, BRAMSON, BRANDLING, BRANT, BRAVITOR, BRAZIER, BRERE, BRETON, BRIDEN, BRIDG, BRIARS, BRIDGEN, BRIERS, BRIGHT, BRILLAGHAN, BRINGBRANKE, BRISBANE, BRISTO, BRITTON, BROCKER, BROCTER, BROMLEY, BROTHERTON, BROOK, BROOKES, BROSTER, BROWN BROWNE, BROWNET, BROX, BRUCE, BRYARS, BRYLAND, BUCKHAM, BUCHANAN, BUCKLE, BUNING, BUNNING, BUNTING, BURKHEAD, BURDEN, BURDER, BURDET, BURGES, BURGESS, BURKET, BURNES, BURNET, BURNETT, BURNEY, BURRMOD, BURROWS, BURTON, BYERS, BYNGHAM, BYSSE, CABEENE, CABBIN, CALBREATH, CALHOUN, CALLY, CALSON, CALVEILL, CALWELL, CAMAN, CAMBELL, CAMBLE, CAMEL, CAMELL, CAMMIL, CAMPIAN, CAMPLE, CAMPSIE, CANDER, CANDERS, CANDERSE, CANNING, CANT, CAPP, CAR, CARBUT, CAREY, CARLILL, CARMICHAELL, CARMIGHELL, CARNAGHAN, CARNES, CARR, CARRINGTON, CARRUDHOSE, CARTE, CARTER, CARTWRIGHT, CARY, CASON, CASSRONE, CHAMBERLIN, CHAMBERS, CHAPMAN, CHARLES, CHEARNSIDE, CHESMAN, CHICHLEY, CHILDS, CHRISTIAN, CHURCH, CLAPP, CLARK, CLARKE, CLAY, CLEARY, CLEGG, CLEID, CLEMELL, CLEMENTS, CLENTON, CLINTON, CLOGHERONE, CLOTWORTHY, CLOYD, CLUIG, CLUTTERBUCK, CLYFTON, CLYNTON, COATCH, COCHERON, COCHORONE, COCHRANE, COCHRAS, COCK, COCKES, COFIELD, COGHERAN, COGHERON, COLE, COLHOUN, COLLENS, COLLINS, COLLOM, COLEMORE, COLVERHOUSE, COME, COMMINGHAM, COMNELL, CONN, CONNAWAY, CONNELL, CONNINGHAM, CONWAY, COOK, COOKE, COOKES, COOP, COOPER, COOTE, COPELAND, CORBET, CORSBY, CORY, CORNWALL, COSSEN, COSSENS, COSTER, COSTERDYNE, COTTESMORE, COTTISMORE, COULTON, CORTNEY, COWAN, COWEY, COX, CRACKS, CRACTON, CRAFORD, CRAG, CRAGG, CRAIG, CRANE, CRAVAN, CRAVEN, CRAWFORD, CRAYLE, CREIGHTON, CREWE, CROFT, CROOKES, CROOKSHANKS, CROSER, CROSS, CROSSLET, CROTHERS, CROUCH CRUCKS, CULBERSON, CULILAND, CUMELL, CUMMELL, CUMMINGS, CUNNINGHAM, CUNSTALL, CUPARD, CUPRATS, CURRY, CUTBERTSON, CUTLER, DALLAWAY, DALRYMPLE, DALSYRE, DALWAY, DANES, DANNETT, DARLING, DARLINGTON, DARWIN, DAVIS, DAVIES, DAVISON, DAVY, DAWSON, DEAL, DEALE, DEANES, DEARD, DECON, DEGARNOCK, DEINER, DELAP, DEPHET, DENSYNE, DENT, DERWIN, DICKES, DICKSON, DICKY, DIDICOT, DIKESS, DILLON, DINSEENE, DINSMOORE, DINSMYRE, DIXON, DOAKE, DOBBY, DOBSON, DODDINGTON, DOGGIN, DOMVILL, DONAGHY, DONELDSON, DONNELL, DONNELLAN, DONNELSON, DORNOIN, DOUGLAS, DOUNS, DOWAY, DOWDALL, DOWNHAM, DOWNES, DOWNING, DRAGFORD, DRAKEFORD, DRAPER, DRAYTON, DROSTER, DROWRY, DRURY, DUFF, DUMVILL, DUN, DUNBAR, DUNKAN, DUNKIN, DUNLAP, DUNING, DUNNING, DYALL, EATON, EDGE, EDGECOMBE, EDWARD, EDWARDS, EGERTON, EGLESON, ELCOCK, ELICE, ELLIS, ELLISON, ELLOT, ELVIN, ELWYN, ENGLISH, ERWIN, ERWYN, EVANS, EVERET, EWART, EXFIELD, FACKERLEY, FARBET, FARGISON, FARKER, FARKES, FARLANE, FARLY, FARMER, FARMES, FARNALD, FARRAL, FARREL, FARTLOE, FAUTES, FAWSHIER, FAYLER, FELAND, FELTON, FEMINGE, FERAL, FETERS, FETTERS, FFOLLIOT, FILSELL, FINCH, FINLAY, FISHER, FIXTER, FLEETWOOD, FLEMING, FLETCHER, FLYN, FLYRT, FORD, FORESTER, FORREST, FORTCLOUGH, FORTLY, FORTICK, FOSTER, FOUCHON, FOWELL, FOWKES, FOWLER, FRASH, FRASSER, FRAY, FRAZIER, FREEMAN, FRENCH, FREMAN, FRISHEL, FRISHELL, FRIZELL, FROW, FRYE, FUISH, FULLERTON, FULTON, FUSHEY, FYNLEY, FYNLY, FYNOON, GAGE, GAIT, GALBRAITH, GALLOWAY, GAMBLE, GARDINER, GARDNER, GARRALD, GARRARD, GARTLY, GARVIN, GARVYE, GAWEN, GAWLIAM, GAULT, GAUTE, GATE GATES, GAUT, GAY, GAYTE, GEORGE, GESEN, GIBBONE, GIBSON, GIFFEINGE, GIFFORD, GILARD, GILDSTROON, GILL, GILLASPICK, GILLELAND, GILMORE, GILMOORE, GILPATRICK, GILROE, GIVENS, GLEENE, GLEN, GLENDIDGE, GLENDINNINE, GLENN, GLESHAW, GLOVER, GLYDSN, GOARE, GODBOLD, GODFREY, GOFFE, GOODFELLOW, GOLDSMITH, GOODMAN, GOODWIN, GOODWYN, GOODY, GOODYEER, GORDNER, GORDON, GORGES, GORMLY, GOTTRY, GOUGH, GOULD, GOUT, GRAHAM, GRAHAMS, GRAIDY, GRAY, GRAYVE, GREEBLE, GREG, GREGG, GREGORIE, GREGORY, GREENE, GREENOCK, GREENHAM, GRENAGH, GRENE, GRENEWOOD, GRIDGSON, GRIER, GRIFFEN, GRIFFIN, GRIFFITH, GRISE, GRYNN, GRYSON, GULLIVER, GUY, GYLES, GYLLES, HACKE, HALL, HALSON, HALTON, HAMAN, HAMBIDG, HAMELL, HAMELTON, HAMILTON, HAMMILTON, HAMMOND, HAMONS, HANCOCK, HANDLY, HANFORD, HANKES, HANKOLY, HANLY, HANNA, HANNEN, HANNY, HANY, HARBISON, HARCOUGH, HARE, HARETOP, HARGRAVE, HARPER, HARRINGTON, HARRISON, HARRIS, HARYSON, HARNY, HARTE, HARTOP, HASLET, HASTON, HASSELHEAD, HATFORD, HATHORNES, HATTON, HAUMAR, HAVELAND, HAWARD, HAWTHORNE, HAY, HAYLANE, HAYLARE, HAYLEMAN, HAYNES, HAWLOW, HAYRE, HAZELTON, HEARY, HEATH, HEGGARD, HEIDEN, HEMPHILL, HEMYN, HENDERSON, HENDMAN, HENDRY, HENEMAN, HENIMAN, HENRY, HERBERTSON, HEWES, HEYLAND, HIGGINS, HIGGONS, HIGHILIE, HILHOUS, HILL, HILLHOUS, HILLHOUSE, HILMAN, HILTON, HINEMAN, HINGSON, HINKESON, HINTON, HITCHINS, HODGKINS, HODGKINSON, HOGG, HOLDEN, HOLIWELL, HOLLAND, HOLLIDAY, HOLLYDAY, HOLMES, HOME, HOMS, HOPENE, HORN, HOSTZ, HOUSE, HOUSELOCK, HOUSTON, HOW, HOWARD, HOWEY, HOWGRAVE, HOWKELT, HOWSTON, HUBERTSON, HUDMAN, HUDSON, HUEN, HUES, HUGH, HUGHES, HUGHSTONE, HUGHYE, HUISTONE, HULLY, HUME, HUNSTON, HUNTER, HUNTERHURD, HUSCOCK, HUSTON, HUTCHIN, HUTCHINS, HUTCHISON, HUTCHON, HUTTON, HYARD, HYMPHILL, HYNEMAN, HYNN, INCH, INGLE, IRISH, IRWIN, IRWINE, ITSON, JACKET, JACK, JACON, JACKS, JACKSON, JAMESON, JAMISON, JARDEN, JAUGE, JAUNCYS, JENNINGS, JESSON, JOANES, JOHNES, JOHNSTON, JONE, JONES, JONSTOUNES, JORDAINE, JORDAN, JOYES, JUDD, JUPSHE, KARR, KAY, KEEMYNG, KEENE, KEITH, KELLY, KELSEY, KELSO, KELLSO, KENDRICK, KENEDY, KENNEDY, KENT, KER, KERNE, KERSONE, KEYMYN, KEYS, KILL, KILLPATRICK, KILNER, KING, KINGE, KININGTON, KINKEAD, KINKED, KINNIE, KIRBY, KIRKPATRICK, KIRKWOOD, KISHALL, KNEELAND, KNIGHT, KNOBS, KNOCK, KNOTT, KNOWELS, KNOX, KNYGHTON, KUOGHERON, KYLE, KYMMEN, KYNG, LAGAN, LAMAN, LAMB, LAMBERTON, LANE, LANG, LANGDEL, LANGDELL, LANGEMORE, LARDAN, LARGE, LASON, LATHAM, LASTLEY, LAUGHLYNE, LAUGHTON, LAUNDY, LAWNDY LAWSON, LAWSONN, LAXTON, LEA, LEACHEN, LEADER, LEAGH, LEAP, LEDIAT, LEE, LEGAT, LE GROME, LEIGH, LEMINGTON, LENTON, LETCH, LEWEN, LEWIN, LEWIS, LEY, LIEGH, LIGGAT, LINDSAY, LINES, LINN, LINTON, LIPSETT, LISTON, LITTLE, LOAGH, LOADSON, LOFTUS, LOGAN, LOGG, LOGGAN, LONDY, LONG, LONGE, LONGMORE, LONWILL, LOEN, LOOKE, LORD, LOUGHEAD, LOUGHRY, LORIMER, LOUGHLAYNE, LOWRY, LOWTHER, LUCAS, LUCKYE, LULL, LUMBERTON, LUXTON, LYELL, LYNDSAY, LYNGE, LYN, LYNIX, LYNN, LYON, MACGILANDRYES, MACGILDUFFE, MACHYNE, MACKEE, MACKEY, MACKIN, MACKMANUS, MAC-NE-MEE, MADDER, MADDOCK, MADOOLE, MAIDLEY, MAGEE, MAGEILE, MAGGWERE, MAGILLIGAN, MAGIN, MAGONEY, MAGUIRE, MAIOR, MAJOR, MAKASPY, MAKEIR, MANDLEY, MARCH, MARKHAM, MARROW, MARSHALL, MARSON, MARTAGH, MARTEALL, MARTIN, MASON, MATARS, MATHERS, MATHEW, MATHEWS, MATHEWES, MAYDLEY, MAYE, MAYNE, MAYO, MAXWELL, McALESTER McAPRIOR, McATAWNEY, McATIERE, McBRIDE, McCALLAN, McCALLEN, McCAMNISH, McCAN, McCARGILL, McCARKAN, McCARRELL, McCARTER, McCAWE, McCLARTY, McCLANE, McCLELLAN, McCLELAND, McCLELLAND, McCLEMOND, McCLERY, McCLOSKY, McCLOYDD, McCOLE, McCOLLON, McCOMBE, McCONAGHIE, McCONMOY, McCONNELL, McCONRY, McCORBE, McCORDALL, McCORMACKE, McCORMICK, McCOTTER, McCOURTY, McCOWAN, McCOWELL, McCOY, McCRACANE, McCRACKEN, McCRAIN, McCRAISE, McCRANNEL, McCRANNY, McCREKEL, McCRISTY, McCRONELL, McCULLEN, McCURDY, McDAVID, McDERMOT, McDOELL, McDONELLY, McDONNELL, McDOOL, McDOOLE, McELENAN, McELHINNE, McELMUNE, McENERY, McERLAIN, McERLEN, McERLIN, McEVERY, McFARLANE, McFETRISS, McFFARLIN, McFFURLAGH, McGARNY, McGEE, McGENNELY, McGEOUGH, McGIDDESS, McGILBREAD, McGILBREDY, McGILLASPY, McGILLBREEDY, McGILDUFFE, McGILDUSS, McGILL, McGILLEN, McGILLIGAN, McGILROY, McGLISNEY, McGLOON, McGLOWE, McGOWEN, McGOWN, McGRATH, McGRANE, McGRANEE, McGRENLIS, McGUIGAN, McGUIN, McGUNEY, McGWIGGAN, McHADRY, McHALE, McHENRY, McHILLAN, McHUDDE, McILMARTIN, McILVANNY, McINCH, McINTCH, McKANLY, McKEE, McKEENE, McKELLAM, McKENLY, McKENNY, McKER, McKEY, McKILLINGTON, McKIN, McKINLEY, McKINSTRY, McLEALAND, McLENTOG, McLINCH, McMAISTER, McMARR, McMATH, McMULLAN, McMURDY, McMURPHY, McMURRIN, McMURROGHY, McMYN, McMYNE, McNAGHT McNAIR, McNAUGHTON, McNAYN, McNAYRE, McNEILL, McNEMY, McNICOLL, McOMBE, McPEAKE, McPHELEMY, McQUASSOCK, McQUESTON, McQUHITAUGHY, McQUILLY, McRASSEY, McREADY, McREDDY, McRIDDY, McRORY, McRUTTER, McSHADDY, McSHANE, McSPARRON, McTEERE, McTIEGE, McVAUGH, McVEAGH, McWHERY, McWILLIAM, McWILLY, McWRAY, MEAD, MEADE, MEDLEY, MERCER, MERE, MESSENGER, MICHAELE, MICHANE, MICHEL, MICHELL, MICKLE, MILL, MILLS, MILLER, MINNIS, MISNEY, MITCHEL, MITCHELL, MITTEN, MOFFAT, MOLESWORTH, MONNELL, MONSERRANCE, MONT, MONTEITH, MONTGOMERY, MOONE, MOORE, MOOREGALWAY, MOOREHEAD, MOOTE, MORE, MORGAN, MORGIN, MORISON, MORRIS, MORRISE, MORRISON, MORTIMER, MORTON, MORTYMER, MOUNTGOMRY, MOUSE, MULDONY, MULLAN, MUND, MUNGOMERY, MURD, MURIAL, MURRAY, MURREY, MURRY, MURROW, MURRYNE, MURTOGH, MUSKET, MYERS, MYLES, MYN, NAYLOR, NAYMANE, NEALSON, NEESBIT, NEILL, NEILSON, NESBIT, NESBITT, NETTLETON, NEWEN, NEZRILTON, NICHOLAS, NICHOLS, NIXON, NOBLE, NORRICE, NORRIS, NORTH, NORTON, NOTHER, NOTT, NUGENT, NUSON, O’BOILE, O’BOYD, O’BOYLAN, O’BRILLAGHAN, O’BRITTEN O’ CANE, O’CAR, O’CARR, O’CATHAN, O’CHANE, O’COLSCREAGHAN, O’CONNELLY, O’ CONNORY, O’CONREE, O’CONRY, O’CORR, O’CORRA, O’CREELY, O’CRELLY, O’CULLEN, O’CURRAN, O’DEEMAN, O’DENVER, O’DEVIN, O’DOGHERTY, O’DOHERTY, O’ DONAGHY, O’DONELLY, O’DONOHY, O’DORRIS, O’DOWGAN, O’DYMAN, O’DREANOR, O’ FARRELL, O’FELY, O’FERELL, O’FERRY, O’FINNOGHAN, OGE, OGHERSON, O’GILCANNON, O’ GILLEN O’GORDEN, O’GOWN, O’GYLEIRE, O’HAGAN, O’HAGARTY, O’HAGERTY, O’ HAGNY, O’HARKAN, O’HARRAN, O’HARSAN, O’HARTAN, O’HAVARAN, O’HELFERTY, O’ HENRY, O’HIGGIN, O’KAT, O’KEERIN, O’KELLEGHAN, O’KELLY, O’KELTE, O’KERIGAN, O’KERNY, OKES, O’KNOGHER, O’LAGAN, O’LANNAN, OLFARDS, OLFEARDS, O’ LIMERICK, OLIVER, O’LOGHNAN, O’LORKAN, O’LOUGHREY, O’LUSKAN, O’LYNCHYAN, O’ MANIN, O’MEEKAN, O’MEANE, O’MELLAN, O’MOGHERY, O’MORPOE, O’MULCRIVE, O’ MULCREW, O’MULGRINE, O’MULLHALL, O’MULHALLIN, O’MULLAN, O’MULLHOLLAN, O’ MULHOLLAND, O’MURRY, O’NEALE, O’NEILL, O’PRESSON O’QUESKEN, O’QUIGY, O’QUIN, ORE, O’REDDY, O’RENE, O’ROIRKE, O’RORKE, ORNOYLE, OSBORNE, OSDALE, O’ SHARKEY O’SHERKY, O’SHIEL, O’SREAN OSTYN, OSMAN, O’TIMONY, O’TOOLE, OTTERSON, OUGHTERSON, OWEN, OWNCE, PACKER, PADDLE, PAINE, PALLET, PALMER, PAMER, PARDEN, PARKE, PARKER, PARKES, PARR, PARRATT, PARRET, PARSEY, PARSONS, PASSY, PATCHELL, PATRICK, PARVIS, PATTEN, PATTERSON, PATTESHALL, PATTON, PAYNE, PEARANCE, PEARATH, PEARCY, PEAREMAN, PEARSON, PEOPLES, PEPPER, PERPOYNT, PERRY, PETFEILD, PHILLICOTE, PHILLIP, PHILLIPS, PHILLOPS, PICKIN, PIGGIN, PIKE, PIPER, PIT, PITT, PITTS, PLUNKET, POAK, POAKE, POCK, POKE, POLII, POOLE, PORT, PORTER, PORTINGALL, POULTENEY, POWELL, PRESCOCK, PRESSON, PRESTON, PRETTICE, PRICE, PRIDION, PRIECE, PRIGEON, PRITCHET, PRITTY, PROPTER, PROWDEN, PURCHES, PYE, QUALANE, RAMSAY, RANDEL, RANICK, RANKIN, RANKINE, RATCLIFFE, RAULTON, RAVEN, RAWLINS, RAYE, RAYING, RAYMON, RAYNICK, REA, READ, READALL, READE, REALLY, REDFERN, REDFERNE, REED, REEDE, REYNOLDS, RIACH, RICE, RICHARDS, RICH, RICHE, RICHER, RICHEY, RICHMAN, RIGGS, RINNIT, RISE, RITCHIE, RIXON, RIXTON, ROBB, ROBBINS, ROBERT, ROBERTS, ROBERTSON, ROBINSON, ROCK, ROD, ROE, ROGER, ROGERS, RONE, ROPER, ROSE, ROSKRO, ROSS, ROSSE, ROURKE, ROWE, ROWELLY, ROWERTH, ROWTH, RUDDELL, RUDDOCK, RUSSELL, RUST, RUTH, RUTTER, RYDLEY, SACKFEILD, SADLER, SADOCK, SAFFTIN, SALE, SAMPSON, SANDERSON, SANDUM, SANDYES, SAUNDERS, SAWIER, SAYER, SCAHANE, SCOT, SCOTT, SEAR, SEARES, SEMKINS, SEMPELL, SEMPLE, SHANNON, SHIELS, SHARKEY, SHAW, SHAWE, SHENAN, SHERBY, SHEWERS, SHERINGFIELD, SHERINGTON, SHERWOOD, SHIERER, SHINGLETON, SHIRLEY, SHORT, SIDBERT, SILVESTER, SIMCOKE, SIMON, SIMPLE, SIMPSON, SKAMON, SKELLY, SKERLET, SKIPTON, SKOT, SKYNNER, SLEMON, SLOANE, SLUANE, SLURGEN, SMALE, SMALL, SMART, SMELL, SMELLY, SMETY, SMITH, SMYLE, SMYTH, SMYTHE, SNELL, SNODON, SOLLERS, SPARKE, SPARRY, SPEARE, SPEARS, SPEARMEN, SPEER, SPENCER, SPIKE, SPOTSWOOD, SPYRE, SPROWELL, SPROUSE, SQUIRE, STABIN, STANDING, STANHOP, STANLEY, STANNOPPE, STANSBY, STANUP, STAPLES, STARKEY, STARLING, STARRATT, STAYNE, STEAPHENSON, STEBINS, STEAVENSON, STEBRANK, STEEDMAN, STENISON, STEPHENS, STEPHENSON, STERLING, STERLOGG, STEVENSON, STEVISON, STEWARD, STEWART, STILLBARRAUCK, ST.LAWRENCE, STOCKIN, STOKKES, STOCKMAN, STONE, STOTESBURY, STRABRICK, STRABRIDG, STRAGMAN, STRANGE, STRATHLAYNE, STUB, STURTON, STYLE, STYNSON, SUTTON, SWAN, SWATE, SWOORLEY, SYD, SYMERELL, SYMONDS, SYMONS, SYMPSON, TAAFE, TAAFFE, TAILOR, TANNOHILL, TANY, TARRANT, TASH, TAUGE, TAYLOR, TAYRE, THAT, TATLY, TEICH, TEIG, TEMPEST, TEMPLETON, TEWDOR, THISTLEWHITE, THOMAS, THOMPSON, THOMSON, THORNETT, THORNTON, THRONE, THUB, THURSBY, TIPLADY, TITTLE, TOD, TODD, TOLLER, TOME, TOMLYSONN, TOMSON, TRACY, TRAVERS, TREVELYN, TRIMBLE, TRONE, TROTTER, TUCKER, TURBET, TURNER, TUTTON, TYMING, TYNGLE, TRYMBLE, UATHEY, UPTON, VAIL, VALENTYNE, VALINTYNE, VARNER, VAUGHAN, VERNON, VINCENT, VESEY, VESY, WADEN, WAKIS, WALDER, WALKER, WALL, WALLACE, WALLAS, WALLICE, WALLIS, WALLISE, WALLY, WALTAN, WALTHAM, WALTINSHONE, WALTON, WARD, WARDEN, WARING, WARNER, WARREN, WASSEN, WASTLE, WATERS, WATISON, WATSON, WATT, WATTERS, WATTS, WAYBANK, WEB, WEEKES, WEIRE, WELDING, WELL, WELLS, WELSH, WEREDY, WEST, WESSCOAT, WESTCOATE, WESTGATE, WESTON, WETHEROWE, WETSON, WHAP, WHETSTONE, WHISTLER, WHITE, WHITEHILL, WHITESIDE, WHITINGHAM, WHITTAKERS, WIDROOF, WILDE, WILK, WILKES, WILKINSON, WILKS, WILLET, WILLEY, WILLIAM, WILLIAMS, WILLIAMSON, WILLSON, WILLYMS, WILSON, WINDSOR, WINGS, WINSLOW, WINTER, WINTZ, WITHROW, WITLY, WOLDREDG, WOLRIDG, WOMEN, WOOD, WOODBORN, WOODFEN, WOODROFF, WOODROOFFE, WOODS, WOODROSE, WOOLDRIDGE, WOORK, WORKMAN, WRAY, WYRE, WRIGHT, WYLDE, WYLIE, WYNE, WYRE, WYTTY, YATE, YONGE, YORKE, YOUNG, YOW. Instantly Downloadable @ Only $10.95 Enter your search terms Submit search form Web _www.ulsterheritage.com_ (http://www.ulsterheritage.com) uhblog.ulsterheritage.com ulsterheritagedna.ulsterheritage.com Sitemap | Advertise with Us Copyright 2005-2009 Barry McCain / Jim McKane - UlsterHeritage™ - All Rights Reserved

I assumed I had been left off the Chromo2 2000 excel as all three f3952+ had no calls for snps that I had results for. After my last update I got to wondering if perhaps Scotlands DNA had updated their database a long time before they sent me my update and perhaps I had been comparing my first updated results with the second updated ones they hadn t released yet.   I  contacted them and they told me I am sample 432 Rob  

McKenzie kit 26794 has tested the following individual SNPs: DF104+ DF105- DF85- F1265-  Connie McKenzie

> Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 15:02:31 -0400 > From: chantillycarpets@earthlink.net > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: [R-M222] data sheets...with request for information > > > I would ask that Iain confirm the major M222 down stream SNPs for each > of the BIGY and FGC that he is looking at by actual SNP label. > If the sequencing isn't testing XYZ SNPs that is important to know--if > the opposite is true, that also is important to know. This goes to the > viability of the tests involved. > This is already in the tree I maintain. Of course some individuals were already placed from Chromo2 and got slightly more accurate information eg they got good calls from it for S660 and S659 whereas that wasn't always mirrored by the corresponding BigY test. I don't think anyone has bothered about that since those SNPs are in the same box in the tree anyway. One Ewing did a followup test for S603 as it wasn't in the BigY coverage. The issues about lack of coverage of FGC4077/8 are well known and FGC4087 appears to be a good substitute. Everyone who got that from BigY has followed up and confirmed the other two. I don't think there are any significant loose ends in this respect. As far as sharing info those who have shared Chromo2 or BigY with me have done so on an open basis and all have been published. Likewise every test result from the FGC4077/8 group I have heard of has been published, the only exception being some intermediate Kennedy project results where we are still homing in on the final terminal SNP, at which point they will also be published. It's perhaps a good time to point out that analysing a BigY result without sharing is impossible since it revolves around comparisons between all the others both in the same branch and other branches. Two way sharing between all parties is implicit. Particularly given the unhelpful breakdown of 'known' and 'novel' SNPs FTDNA have issued so far. Iain

I've added the 38--111 markers to Berry I've added the 68--111 markers to Shazell I've sent the spread sheet by request to those who asked for it. Additions and/or corrections have been made from feed back received. There yet may be, and I suspect, omissions from the Data set. I try to be correct and inclusive; if the correct and specific information is not posted to the forum or I am not otherwise notified privately, it can't be reflected. To add to this, Linda has actually posted to the project spread sheet the question: BIG Y---What is your most downstream SNP?: Crellin, O'Shaughnessy, Dunbar, Ferguson, McWilliams, Braswell see the project pages for specifics. For the BIGY people, I cannot assume what SNPs up-stream is/have actually been tested/sequenced etc. of what ever your terminal major SNP . I would ask that Iain confirm the major M222 down stream SNPs for each of the BIGY and FGC that he is looking at by actual SNP label. If the sequencing isn't testing XYZ SNPs that is important to know--if the opposite is true, that also is important to know. This goes to the viability of the tests involved. I also need to know which vendors and tests are involved in the reports to the forum...if it's Chromo2, YSEQ, BIGY / FTDNA single SNP testing, or FGC, please so state. I have not separated major groups by sequenced SNPs that we have no information on other than they were found in certain people who may have been confirmed for a major M222 SNP. We do not know where these SNPs are located phylogenetically; we don't know if they mean any thing other than possibly being a private SNP even though they may be shared by 2 people. For the Tree, this information is indeed helpful for members particularly because some may want to investigate; however, for the sub-clade SNP report where the information is considered also in terms of the phylogenetic tree where significant SNPs will be added to the ISOGG haplotree, until these SNPs are vetted and show their significance, the plethora of possible private and/or semi-private SNPs fragments the major groups too much. Some of these SNPs turning up in BIGY and FGC may turn out being private to a family or lineage (such as those for the Milligan) or may offer a possible sub-division (Ferguson, Williams; Howle, Degnen) to some of the major down stream groups, but until they are widely single SNP tested by others, we do not know. The DF97 group has a SNP shared by 3 and under investigation. Will it be found in all DF97--if so then it could be an equivalent and perhaps of no importance; or will it sub-divide the group? We do not yet know. For the membership at large I would ask that in addition to Iain for his analyses, you also submit links to your .BAM file, .vcf and .bed files to Mike Walsh mwwdna@gmail.com with permission to file and analyze the data. Mike is a co-admin of M222; he also is doing considerable L21 and sub-clades data management. Why? There are other specialists under the L21 umbrella such as Alex Williamson and James Kane who are providing functions different from what Iain is for M222 specifically yet are important for the over all assessment for both M222 and the L21 groups. They cannot imagine results just as Iain cannot imagine results. They must examine these files to do what they do, and in the end it is the cumulative information and the different considerations that assist all of us. The best assessments, help and advise that may be rendered comes from information sharing. I ask that you send Iain, Mike and me your Chromo2 raw data files if you have not already. More sets of eyes are always to the benefit to individuals and the many. We all have individual goals for the information pertaining to our lineages. This is a given. In sub-clades, however, all the lineages are important in assessing the sub-clade. Leave out information for a lineage and a piece of the sub-clade information is ignored and/or missing. All of us want to know how we fit into the big picture as well as how the branches of our lineages may relate and the lineages to one another. They all fit together ... how, where and when is the question...WITHOUT all the information there is not a way to fairly or comprehensively assess any of that. Information sharing has been a hot button issue among some. I'm apt to get into hot water here (no surprise) for speaking up on this issue, but it seems to me absolutely counter productive for people pay the money to test, receive results, and then decide there will be no or little sharing or sharing with a limited few. Unless it is shared there is no way to assess whether or not your own particular results mean something just to you, your particular sub-group, the sub-clade at large or any of the rest of it. There are a lot of agendas and assumptions feeding into those agendas at the moment, and for those of us that volunteer to be helpful to everyone, not just a select few, it is a frustrating and time consuming situation to attempt to address the needs of the many while also trying to pay attention to individual members and the individual groups when we have to spend time looking for the correct information. Different types of analyses require different skill sets; I do not know of any single volunteer assessing the data that possesses every skill set and/or has the time or interest in producing all the different forms of analyses that are required and necessary to address the big picture. Most individual members have few of these specialized skill sets. Your questions and observations, however are also informative and add to the understanding of the many. Again, if you want to see the spread sheet before it is submitted to files, I encourage you to ask me for it. I will gladly provide it. With best regards, Susan Hedeen

I'm waiting on a fellow's STRs to add to the SNP report and decided to look at a couple of things while doing so. With the sequencing there are a few that have popped up with shared SNPs. I decided to look at 2 pairs, both in the S660 group. Degnen and Howle apparently share a couple and Fergusson and Williams share a couple. We know nothing about these SNPs; I'm not certain that we know whether or not they fall phylogenetically under S660 -- but what we do know is that 2 pairs of S660 men who did BIGY have some additional SNPs in common that apparently other sequenced S660 men do not. In order to see how helpful these may be other than possibly sorting out some further DNA heritage I looked at what information is publicly available to see if I could learn anything more than 2 pairs each share to date unknown additional SNPs. If you go into the M222 project pages, you will note Linda has the haplotypes nicely separated...this BTW, Linda, was very helpful. Howle/Degnen Howle ancestral claims England for an origin with known ancestry to 1685 New Kent, VA; Degnen claims Ireland with known ancestry 1751 Co Cavan. In the first 12 alleles they share 4 mutations In the 13>37 panel they share 4 more In the 38>67 panel they share 1 more..........for a total of 9/67 and an accompanying TMRCA of 1000 years with 65% confidence (1000+/-350 ybd): 950 CE Fergusson/Williams Fergusson claims ancestry also from Co Cavan Ireland 1785 while Williams has his ancestry traced to 1859 with no other claims for origin. In the first 12 alleles they share 2 mutations In the 13>37 panel they share 6 more In the 38>67 panel they share 2 more >TMRCA @ 67 markers 1100+/-330 (850 CE) In the 68-111 panel they share 8 more >TMRCA @ 111 markers 1200+/-305 (750 CE) With in the knowns S660 group, the 4 of them share 28 mutations which translates into a TMRCA for the 4 of them @ 1550+/-330 ybd and within the margin of error for the TMRCA of the entire test confirmed S660 group. What does it mean? S660 certainly is older than 1550 years as this number among 4 of rather diverse (in the Isles) ancestral claims and haplotypes reflects a possible relatedness of their ancestors well after proliferation of S660 began. No new news there. The fact that 2 pairs share some common SNPs found in Sequencing with accompanying TMRCA between 1000-1200 years ago would suggest that there is an ancestral proximity for the ancestors of each pair within that window of time -- note we yet know nothing about the discovered SNPs, where they are located phylogenetically nor when they may have mutated...all we know is that they've been ID'd in the YDNA of these men. We might ask the question: where were the ancestors of these men between 750 CE and 950 CE since all 4 of them are S660 and the pairs TMRCA is about the same. I do not believe we may use surnames nor ancestral origin claims to sort that out with any confidence...but the discussion of may be very interesting. Just for curiosity then I looked at the S588 so far Ewing and Lane just because Linda has them in the vicinity and I was curious. Lane claims Hughenden England 1535 and Ewing gives an ancestral known of Ire 1744, but the Ewing are known to have been in Scotland earlier. @67 markers they share 12 mutations: 4 in the first 12, 7 in the 13>37 panel and 1 in the 38>67 panel. No surprise, their TMRCA is 1325+/-405 ybd. Just a little bit to think and talk about. Hope you find it as interesting as I do. Susan