In a message dated 6/29/2011 9:41:49 A.M. Central Daylight Time, cain@umich.edu writes: Is there a literal translation of "Con muighe na nGall" (since the topic came up earlier)? Just interested how the word "foreign" is embedded in the name as my internet source suggested. I'm not sure why he was called na nGall either (of the foreigners). That term was usually used by the Irish annalists for either Vikings or later Normans. Not as far as I know for Scotland. In this time period (c. 1300) it probably referred to Normans. His father, Manus of Catha duinn, died fighting the Normans at Downpatrick in 1260. So did a number of other O Cathains. It was a famous battle in which the Irish were routed by the superior weaponry of the Normans. One famous poem describes the Irish in their linen tunics being mowed down by a phalanx of iron. This battle also ushered in the gallowglass era of Ireland's history as the native Irish sought ways to defeat the Normans (the gallowglass were much better armed than the Irish). Not long afterwards the MacSweeneys were settled in Donegal and the O'Donnell chieftain married two Scottish wives, a MacSweeney and a McDonald. The O'Neills imported the MacDonald gallowglass. The O Cathains may have as well except I have no info on that. But you do have the connections with the O Cathain bride and Angus og MacDonald. I found a brief reference online: ""He also suggests that the soubriquet na nGall was given to a person who favoured and copied foreigners, rather than a person who fought against them" Annals of Ulster

I can change that for you. I don't see any easy way to correct that in the personal page though. John In a message dated 6/29/2011 10:17:48 A.M. Central Daylight Time, adelesobiski@sympatico.ca writes: Would it be possible to change the name from Sobiski to Campbell in the spreadsheet - 181861 - as it is really Campbell/ Thanks Janine

In a message dated 6/29/2011 4:24:15 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com writes: The Donegal McLaughlains and the M222 Cains (who I think are the group who you refer to as the M222 O Cathains from Ulster). Logic suggests therefore that either the Donegal McLaughlains are not from Donegal, or the M222 Cains are not from Ulster. There are enough similarities between McLaughlins and Dohertys and a few other Donegal surnames to establish a connection with Ireland. So I think we can lay that first possibility to rest. I myself have wondered why the Ulster O Cathains as identified by Barra McCain don't resemble McLaughlins more closely. The split comes sometime 750 AD. And most of the McLaughlins share a common ancestor sometime in the 1300s. The closest relatives within the Cenel Eoghain to the O Cathains were the Muinter Birne, well known in Ulster history. The major surname associated with the Muinter Birn was Murphy. I think there are others but I'd have to check. I know I've seen some M222 Murphys in the databases but don't know anything about them. Do the Murphys match the O Cathains? Would anyone expect them to? Didn't we have a conversation once in which you stated your simulation studies proved that haplotypes would have mutated away from each other prior to 1300 AD. and would be unrecognizable today? I remember this clearly because I brought up the case of the Leinster Kavanaghs and Kinsellas, both of whom still match yet had a common ancestor ca. 1200 AD. I don't think this is an either/or situation. We've barely touched on the true picture of Cenel Eoghain DNA. Most of it is still unknown. Prior to the O Cathains, we find O'Donnellys and O'Devlins splitting off the line of the Cenel Eoghain. There are a few O'Donnelly M222 samples out there, perhaps Devlins as well, but no one has done anything with them. Between O Cathain and McLaughlin are a tribe called the clan Duibh Enaigh. It's possible this tribe name is also the surname Devanny, of which there are several samples, both M222, but do not match. Prior to O'Donnelly O'Devlin there are a host of barely investigated Cenel Eoghain surnames,including O'Gormley of Cenel Moain, O'Brollahan of Cenel Feradaigh (now Bradley )and Mac Cathmaoil (possibly Campbell) and O'Morrissey of Cenel Tighernaigh, O'Hogan and O'Quinn of Cenel Fergusa and Cenel Coelbad and O Duibh diorma of Cenel Feidilmid (which may be McDermot in Donegal). Lots of names, lots of potential evidence, no DNA. Barra said he took many of his M222 O Cathain samples from Londonderry Co, the heartbed of Irish O Cathain terrtory. He went beyond just trolling the databases. Perhaps you should check with him. John

Hi all, Those of you interested in the origins of the R-M222 haplogroup may be interested to know that a new SNP, tentatively called DF23, has been identified which is apparently upstream of M222 and downstream of L21. More discussion is here: http://dna-forums.org/index.php?/topic/15595-new-snp-for-l21-df23-upstream-of-m222/ In short, this means that all M222+ men should be positive for the new SNP, including the originator of the M222 clade. This may then offer some insight into the much-debated question of whether M222 originated in Ireland or Great Britain. At least one man has been identified who is DF23+ but M222- but I don't believe the thread above offers any information about his ancestry. The SNP is not yet available for commercial testing but based on past history with the DF-series SNPs, it will likely be available from Family Tree DNA within a matter of weeks. However, though people on this list (who are probably M222+) may be interested in the results there is no point in any M222+ man ordering it. Steve

The SORBS problem happened to me too: The Spam and Open Relay Blocking System (SORBS). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_and_Open_Relay_Blocking_System They blacklist a lot of IPs. It seems that if you make a 'donation', you get unlisted. If they think that you have a Dynamic IP, they accuse you of spamming. My ISP took care of it for me, but I had to use another email to post to this list for a while. Unfortunately, RootsWeb uses SORBS as a filter. They sent me the following. Gerry Hoy ============================================================================ ====== Hello, Thank you for contacting us. We apologize for the difficulties in posting. Many report that the sorbs issue gets resolved within about 3 days. Please continue to post till your message goes through. Thank you for your patience in this process. You will also want to see your list of subscriptions to see if you need to subscribe again if you have been unsubscribed. How to view my current mailing list subscriptions http://rootsweb.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/rootsweb.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ faqid=3185 Please let us know if there is anything else we can help you with. Sincerely, David RootsWeb ListMaster -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Kelly Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 12:57 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain SORBS failure (???), so trying to send to the list again. '---------------------- Many thanks, Charles. Con is the genitive of Cu/ - 'Hound' or 'Wolf'. (The Gaeil never lost the knowledge that dogs are a kind of wolf.) So I'm guessing that "Con Muighe na nGall" was taken from a genealogy where it appeared as "X mac Con Muighe na nGall", which means "X son of Cu/ Muighe na nGall". Cu/ = Hound/Wolf Muighe = of plain na nGall= of the Foreigners So the name means 'Wolf of the Plain of the Foreigners' or 'Hound of the Plain of the Foreigners'. Wolves were greatly admired by the Gaeil, much as the Masai honor lions. European folklore treats wolves as evil beasts, but not Irish folklore. Werewolves (literally 'men-wolves') were not regarded as uncommon (they're mentioned in Fe/ineachas as conriochta - 'of wolf form'). The early Irish church didn't like them but most Gaeil didn't regard them as evil by definition. As an example, the royal dynasty of the Osraighe are hereditary werewolves. I tried to find Muigh na nGall on Google. Couldn't find it or its alternate spelling Maigh na nGall. Muigh and Maigh are archaic words. Modern Irish words for 'plain' are machaire and ma/. I couldn't find any reference on Google to "Ma/ na nGall" but there is a Machaire na nGall on Gola Island, Co. Donegal (referenced in this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gola_Island ) That seems a bit off the beaten track so I'll try to check Onomasticon Godelicum when I get home tonight. Best, Jerry Cló an Druaidh / The Druid Press www.druidpress.com ________________________________ From: Charles Cain <cain@umich.edu> To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 10:41:07 AM Subject: [R-M222] Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain Cooey-na-Gall O'Cathain is actually Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain (As per an earlier report by John). Is there a literal translation of "Con muighe na nGall" (since the topic came up earlier)? Just interested how the word "foreign" is embedded in the name as my internet source suggested. Charles PS He must have had some serious mojo if he could send 140 families packing (to Scotland). Maybe I will try that sometime....gotta make a list... R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Jerry....I would never have guessed! It is interesting how others thought it meant something like "a terror to foreigners" but maybe they wanted a more fierce sounding translation. Thinking about it, how often do we pay attention to the literal translation of English names? For most of us a name is just a name. Given that this particular O'Cathain seems to be historical, can we place more trust in a name from a genealogy source? Charles Jerry Kelly wrote: > SORBS failure (???), so trying to send to the list again. > > > '---------------------- > > > Many thanks, Charles. > > Con is the genitive of Cu/ - 'Hound' or 'Wolf'. (The Gaeil never lost the > knowledge that dogs are a kind of wolf.) So I'm guessing that "Con Muighe na > nGall" was taken from a genealogy where it appeared as "X mac Con Muighe na > nGall", which means "X son of Cu/ Muighe na nGall". > > Cu/ = Hound/Wolf > Muighe = of plain > na nGall= of the Foreigners > > So the name means 'Wolf of the Plain of the Foreigners' or 'Hound of the Plain > of the Foreigners'. > > Wolves were greatly admired by the Gaeil, much as the Masai honor lions. > European folklore treats wolves as evil beasts, but not Irish folklore. > Werewolves (literally 'men-wolves') were not regarded as uncommon (they're > mentioned in Fe/ineachas as conriochta - 'of wolf form'). The early Irish > church didn't like them but most Gaeil didn't regard them as evil by > definition. As an example, the royal dynasty of the Osraighe are hereditary > werewolves. > > I tried to find Muigh na nGall on Google. Couldn't find it or its alternate > spelling Maigh na nGall. Muigh and Maigh are archaic words. Modern Irish words > for 'plain' are machaire and ma/. I couldn't find any reference on Google to > "Ma/ na nGall" but there is a Machaire na nGall on Gola Island, Co. Donegal > (referenced in this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gola_Island ) That > seems a bit off the beaten track so I'll try to check Onomasticon Godelicum when > I get home tonight. > > > Best, > Jerry > > > Cló an Druaidh / The Druid Press > www.druidpress.com > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Charles Cain <cain@umich.edu> > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 10:41:07 AM > Subject: [R-M222] Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain > > Cooey-na-Gall O'Cathain is actually Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain (As > per an earlier report by John). > > Is there a literal translation of > > "Con muighe na nGall" > > (since the topic came up earlier)? > > Just interested how the word "foreign" is embedded in the name as my > internet source suggested. > > Charles > > PS He must have had some serious mojo if he could send 140 families > packing (to Scotland). Maybe I will try that sometime....gotta make a > list... > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Would it be possible to change the name from Sobiski to Campbell in the spreadsheet - 181861 - as it is really Campbell/ Thanks Janine ----- Original Message ----- From: Lochlan@aol.com<mailto:Lochlan@aol.com> To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com<mailto:dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com> Sent: June 27, 2011 8:34 PM Subject: [R-M222] Latest spreadsheet I just threw a new copy of the latest M222 project spreadsheet online: _http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/_ (http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/<http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/>) It has the 111 marker samples to date. John R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/<http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/> ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For those of you who don't understand the ancient Irish language...mine being somewhat incomplete by admission..."Mojo" means "charm" or ability to influence others." Anyone confirm? Charles Charles Cain wrote: > Cooey-na-Gall O'Cathain is actually Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain (As > per an earlier report by John). > > Is there a literal translation of > > "Con muighe na nGall" > > (since the topic came up earlier)? > > Just interested how the word "foreign" is embedded in the name as my > internet source suggested. > > Charles > > PS He must have had some serious mojo if he could send 140 families > packing (to Scotland). Maybe I will try that sometime....gotta make a > list... > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Go raibh maith agat, a Ghearo/id. / Thanks, Gerry. Le gach dea-ghui/ Best, Jerry Cló an Druaidh / The Druid Presswww.druidpress.com ________________________________ From: Gerry <gerry@ringofgullion.com> To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 1:27:04 PM Subject: [R-M222] SORBS The SORBS problem happened to me too: The Spam and Open Relay Blocking System (SORBS). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_and_Open_Relay_Blocking_System They blacklist a lot of IPs. It seems that if you make a 'donation', you get unlisted. If they think that you have a Dynamic IP, they accuse you of spamming. My ISP took care of it for me, but I had to use another email to post to this list for a while. Unfortunately, RootsWeb uses SORBS as a filter. They sent me the following. Gerry Hoy ============================================================================ ====== Hello, Thank you for contacting us. We apologize for the difficulties in posting. Many report that the sorbs issue gets resolved within about 3 days. Please continue to post till your message goes through. Thank you for your patience in this process. You will also want to see your list of subscriptions to see if you need to subscribe again if you have been unsubscribed. How to view my current mailing list subscriptions http://rootsweb.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/rootsweb.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ faqid=3185 Please let us know if there is anything else we can help you with. Sincerely, David RootsWeb ListMaster -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Kelly Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 12:57 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain SORBS failure (???), so trying to send to the list again. '---------------------- Many thanks, Charles. Con is the genitive of Cu/ - 'Hound' or 'Wolf'. (The Gaeil never lost the knowledge that dogs are a kind of wolf.) So I'm guessing that "Con Muighe na nGall" was taken from a genealogy where it appeared as "X mac Con Muighe na nGall", which means "X son of Cu/ Muighe na nGall". Cu/ = Hound/Wolf Muighe = of plain na nGall= of the Foreigners So the name means 'Wolf of the Plain of the Foreigners' or 'Hound of the Plain of the Foreigners'. Wolves were greatly admired by the Gaeil, much as the Masai honor lions. European folklore treats wolves as evil beasts, but not Irish folklore. Werewolves (literally 'men-wolves') were not regarded as uncommon (they're mentioned in Fe/ineachas as conriochta - 'of wolf form'). The early Irish church didn't like them but most Gaeil didn't regard them as evil by definition. As an example, the royal dynasty of the Osraighe are hereditary werewolves. I tried to find Muigh na nGall on Google. Couldn't find it or its alternate spelling Maigh na nGall. Muigh and Maigh are archaic words. Modern Irish words for 'plain' are machaire and ma/. I couldn't find any reference on Google to "Ma/ na nGall" but there is a Machaire na nGall on Gola Island, Co. Donegal (referenced in this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gola_Island ) That seems a bit off the beaten track so I'll try to check Onomasticon Godelicum when I get home tonight. Best, Jerry Cló an Druaidh / The Druid Press www.druidpress.com ________________________________ From: Charles Cain <cain@umich.edu> To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 10:41:07 AM Subject: [R-M222] Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain Cooey-na-Gall O'Cathain is actually Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain (As per an earlier report by John). Is there a literal translation of "Con muighe na nGall" (since the topic came up earlier)? Just interested how the word "foreign" is embedded in the name as my internet source suggested. Charles PS He must have had some serious mojo if he could send 140 families packing (to Scotland). Maybe I will try that sometime....gotta make a list... R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Cooey-na-Gall O'Cathain is actually Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain (As per an earlier report by John). Is there a literal translation of "Con muighe na nGall" (since the topic came up earlier)? Just interested how the word "foreign" is embedded in the name as my internet source suggested. Charles PS He must have had some serious mojo if he could send 140 families packing (to Scotland). Maybe I will try that sometime....gotta make a list...

SORBS failure (???), so trying to send to the list again. '---------------------- Many thanks, Charles. Con is the genitive of Cu/ - 'Hound' or 'Wolf'. (The Gaeil never lost the knowledge that dogs are a kind of wolf.) So I'm guessing that "Con Muighe na nGall" was taken from a genealogy where it appeared as "X mac Con Muighe na nGall", which means "X son of Cu/ Muighe na nGall". Cu/ = Hound/Wolf Muighe = of plain na nGall= of the Foreigners So the name means 'Wolf of the Plain of the Foreigners' or 'Hound of the Plain of the Foreigners'. Wolves were greatly admired by the Gaeil, much as the Masai honor lions. European folklore treats wolves as evil beasts, but not Irish folklore. Werewolves (literally 'men-wolves') were not regarded as uncommon (they're mentioned in Fe/ineachas as conriochta - 'of wolf form'). The early Irish church didn't like them but most Gaeil didn't regard them as evil by definition. As an example, the royal dynasty of the Osraighe are hereditary werewolves. I tried to find Muigh na nGall on Google. Couldn't find it or its alternate spelling Maigh na nGall. Muigh and Maigh are archaic words. Modern Irish words for 'plain' are machaire and ma/. I couldn't find any reference on Google to "Ma/ na nGall" but there is a Machaire na nGall on Gola Island, Co. Donegal (referenced in this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gola_Island ) That seems a bit off the beaten track so I'll try to check Onomasticon Godelicum when I get home tonight. Best, Jerry Cló an Druaidh / The Druid Press www.druidpress.com ________________________________ From: Charles Cain <cain@umich.edu> To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 10:41:07 AM Subject: [R-M222] Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain Cooey-na-Gall O'Cathain is actually Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain (As per an earlier report by John). Is there a literal translation of "Con muighe na nGall" (since the topic came up earlier)? Just interested how the word "foreign" is embedded in the name as my internet source suggested. Charles PS He must have had some serious mojo if he could send 140 families packing (to Scotland). Maybe I will try that sometime....gotta make a list... R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

To me, the big puzzle is that there is absolutely no perceptible similarity (beyond both being M222) between The Donegal McLaughlains and the M222 Cains (who I think are the group who you refer to as the M222 O Cathains from Ulster). Logic suggests therefore that either the Donegal McLaughlains are not from Donegal, or the M222 Cains are not from Ulster. As for pure imagination, if you choose to disregard the sworn statement of a Clan chief, so be it. McKechnie did, so you aren't the first. But let's see how the 68-111 marker results pan out. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lochlan@aol.com Sent: 28 June 2011 23:40 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] 111-Marker RESULTS In a message dated 6/28/2011 5:27:21 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com writes: Do you think you can guess who they are, or did you mean that you think you can guess who I think they are?

Right you are! I just fixed it! Allene On 6/28/2011 5:43 PM, Lochlan@aol.com wrote: > That's strange. FTDNA generated that unknown from somewhere. > > I just checked myself. Kit 180243 MacAdam says "unknown" under Contact > information and paternal country of origin. I'm sure this is where it's > coming from. > > John > > > In a message dated 6/28/2011 6:46:04 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > agoforth@moscow.com writes: > > I checked beforehand and it says "Arieniskill, SCT" in User Preferences > for that kit. If it comes up again as Unknown, then I'll change it to > Arisaig, which is nearby. Maybe that'll work better. > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

That's strange. FTDNA generated that unknown from somewhere. I just checked myself. Kit 180243 MacAdam says "unknown" under Contact information and paternal country of origin. I'm sure this is where it's coming from. John In a message dated 6/28/2011 6:46:04 P.M. Central Daylight Time, agoforth@moscow.com writes: I checked beforehand and it says "Arieniskill, SCT" in User Preferences for that kit. If it comes up again as Unknown, then I'll change it to Arisaig, which is nearby. Maybe that'll work better.

In a message dated 6/28/2011 9:52:48 A.M. Central Daylight Time, agoforth@moscow.com writes: John, thank you for the new spreadsheet. One of my MacAdam lines (Kit 180243) has "Unknown" for place of origin. It should be Scotland, I can change that manually. But the origins are generated directly by FTDNA through what was entered on the person's personal page. Unless that is changed new versions will keep saying unknown. John

In a message dated 6/28/2011 5:27:21 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com writes: Do you think you can guess who they are, or did you mean that you think you can guess who I think they are? I suspected you might be heading off in a familiar direction on this, that's all. But the following is quite different: <. That person could be the Orcanus referred to by Sir James Lamont in 1661. Another possibility is that the M222 Cains or variants, and I, are all descended from Ewen Makane Makgorre, whom, according to McKechnie, "was the progenitor of the Lamonts of Garrachoran in Glen Lean." I have to agree with McKechnie that the Orcanus bit is pure imagination. It's impossible to determine what the author intended in that name. It could be something as simple as Eirc, a name from the Scottish Dal Riata. There could be some M222 Cains native to Scotland. But if you are including the M222 O Cathains from Ulster in this group then I think you are barking up the wrong tree. John

Hi John, I checked beforehand and it says "Arieniskill, SCT" in User Preferences for that kit. If it comes up again as Unknown, then I'll change it to Arisaig, which is nearby. Maybe that'll work better. Allene

I inherited the so called Celtic bump from my ancestors and have passed it on to my daughters although with each generation it decreases in size the primary reason I am researching king tut and . the ancient races it was much more noticeable in size.in 1400 BC It is also called the Anatolian bump ..for give me for my twists and turns .Gene Ashley trait is shared in the family by inheritance. Research work by David Childress in Peru, Adriano Forgione in Malta and Andrew Collins, (Andrew Collins. Gods of Eden. London: Headline Book, Pub. 1998) has led to a greater knowledge of the elongated skull. The first is that this is a rare anomaly that has been found since ancient times in other parts of the world as well. If those possessing the elongated skull belong to a certain race that has now become extinct cannot be said with certainty. Such skulls have been discovered not only in Egypt but also in Peru, Malta and the Mittani belt of northern Iraq and Syria and those possessing such skulls appear to have been associated with the royal or priestly classes Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/316722 _ bathocrany,the celtic bump on the back of some peoples heads. _ (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message570185/pg1) 31 posts - 7 authors - Last post: Sep 8, 2009 I saw a thing on t.v. that said 70% of Londerners had the skull bump @ 1666 (fire of London) i guess they did askull bump check,i would ... www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message570185/pg1 -_Similar_ (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&authuser=0&biw=790&bih=473&q=related:www.godlikeprodu ctions.com/forum1/message570185/pg1+70%+of+Londerners+had+the+skull+bump+@+1 666+(fire+of+London&tbo=1&sa=X&ei=8P0JTq_iMMStgQeu3_SbAg&sqi=2&ved=0CB0QHzAA ) (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message570185/pg1) _ Why Queen Cleopatra was definitely not Black - Topix_ (http://www.topix.com/forum/world/africa/TGALBVHRU4RR9CEUC/p199) 20 posts - 5 authors - Last post: Nov 5, 2008 ( Tut's grandmother ) The occipital bun is reminiscent of Mesolithic Nubians (is reminisc .... This is of course King Tut! Akhenaten's son! ... www.topix.com/forum/world/africa/.../p199 - _Cached_ (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:edfheXd53akJ:www.topix.com/forum/world/africa /TGALBVHRU4RR9CEUC/p199+King+Tutankhamun+occipital+bun&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl =us&source=www.google.com) rait is shared in the family by inheritance. Research work by David Childress in Peru, Adriano Forgione in Malta and Andrew Collins, (Andrew Collins. Gods of Eden. London: Headline Book, Pub. 1998) has led to a greater knowledge of the elongated skull. The first is that this is a rare anomaly that has been found since ancient times in other parts of the world as well. If those possessing the elongated skull belong to a certain race that has now become extinct cannot be said with certainty. Such skulls have been discovered not only in Egypt but also in Peru, Malta and the Mittani belt of northern Iraq and Syria and those possessing such skulls appear to have been associated with the royal or priestly classes

I think a lot depends on how DYS715,513,643 pans out. If only 2 surnames have 23,14,11 then I'd be inclined to think that both surnames descend from the same person. That person could be the Orcanus referred to by Sir James Lamont in 1661. Another possibility is that the M222 Cains or variants, and I, are all descended from Ewen Makane Makgorre, whom, according to McKechnie, "was the progenitor of the Lamonts of Garrachoran in Glen Lean." Of the two, based on the fact that we are probably looking at genetic distances of around 12-18 over 111 markers (plus a number of off-modal matches), the 900 AD suggested by James Lamont as being the time that Orcanus lived, probably makes him the more likely candidate. I think Ewan Makane Makgorre lived around 1425 AD, which looks too recent. Do you think you can guess who they are, or did you mean that you think you can guess who I think they are? Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lochlan@aol.com Sent: 28 June 2011 03:56 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] 111-Marker RESULTS In a message dated 6/27/2011 5:42:35 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com writes: Simply that my DNA is much closer to Cain and variants than any of the other surnames in the O'Cathain grouping. Ok. Then who do you think these Cains are? I think I can guess. John R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

John, thank you for the new spreadsheet. One of my MacAdam lines (Kit 180243) has "Unknown" for place of origin. It should be Scotland, thanks. Also, there's another McAdam line now tested to 111 markers and confirmed M-222. He showed up as a match to my lines at the 25-marker level. See Kit 165907 in the McAdams project. I am going to get in touch with this person soon. I don't think he is in your project, so I'll recommend that he join. Allene