I grew up on Cape Breton Island, but never heard of "Nuffie" until now. At first I thought it was a variation on "Newfie" (Newfoundlander) but not according to the Urban Dictionary. On 7/3/2011 8:38 AM, Charles Cain wrote: > > > For list members outside the US, those of us from this tradition are > often termed, affectionately, or more often otherwise, "hill billies." > There is a similar tradition in Canada of a distinctive form of > English leading to the term "Nuffie," similar to "hill billy" in > intent I suppose, but I think more distinctly Irish. Anyone familiar > with that dialect? > > I think people like to hear archaic dialects but can't seem to resist > making fun of them. Seems we can't resist humor even if the intent is > often not exactly benign. > > Charles > > > > > > > > > Quoting Allene Goforth<agoforth@moscow.com>: > >> Charles, my husband is from that area, although his ancestors came from >> a place near York, England, in the 1600s. ( He is in Haplogroup J2b2.) >> >> I think Scots-Irish is more appropriate, but I've seen it as >> Scotch-Irish as well. The latter does tend to make a person thirsty! I >> can't find my copy of The Story of English to verify this, but some of >> their expressions are supposed to go back to Elizabethan England. >> >> Allene >> >> On 7/3/2011 5:34 AM, Charles Cain wrote: >>> Jerry >>> >>> On a more serious note, I think Mr. Cassidy has a point, particularly >>> in a region of the US called "Appalachia," that part of the >>> Appalachian Mountains extending all the way from western Pennsylvania >>> (or even into New York) to northern Alabama. It is a treasure trove of >>> archaic English expressions and many, I suppose, originating in >>> Ireland or Scotland. It was settled originally by Scots-Irish in the >>> mid to late 1700s and early 1800s. Until recently, TV and all that, it >>> remained culturally distinct. Many of the US M222 live or came from >>> there. >>> >>> Coming out of that tradition on both parents side, I really enjoyed >>> hearing the old speech as a child. It is disappearing fast. >>> >>> Charles >>> >>> PS Do folks prefer Scots-Irish or Scotch-Irish? One sounds like an >>> interesting whiskey blend. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Modern Irish words for that kind of personal charm include plámás and >>>> carasma (taken directly from the word 'charisma'). Words for a charm >>>> used to cast spells include briocht, ortha (derived from the Latin 'oro'), >>>> piseog, and draíocht (the modern spelling of druidheacht / druidry). >>>> >>>> There was a very nice fellow by the name of Daniel Cassidy who claimed that >>>> large amounts of American slang came from Irish Gaelic. As far as my >>>> friends and I have been able to tell, he was not an Irish speaker and many >>>> of his claims seem unlikely. Is that where the mojo idea came from? >>>> >>>> Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, >>>> Jerry >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com >>>> [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Charles Cain >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 11:13 AM >>>> To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com >>>> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain >>>> >>>> For those of you who don't understand the ancient Irish language...mine >>>> being somewhat incomplete by admission..."Mojo" means "charm" or ability to >>>> influence others." >>>> >>>> Anyone confirm? >>>> >>>> Charles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> R1b1c7 Research and Links: >>>> >>>> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> R1b1c7 Research and Links: >>> >>> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> R1b1c7 Research and Links: >> >> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Sandy, That's a tough one. The K and the Y in the name indicate that the name in this form was written for an English-speaking audience (we don't have Ks or Ys in the Gaelic alphabet). And the phonetic system for English-speakers then was even more chaotic than that for English-speakers today. Do you have the original spelling in Gaelic? The phonetic system for Early Modern Irish was organized and formalized by the filí (prophet-poets) by the 13th century, has barely changed since, and is used today by Scots Gaelic and Irish Gaelic. Best, Jerry -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sandy Paterson Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 4:03 AM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: [R-M222] Old Scots pronunciation Can anyone suggest how McKynueis would have been pronounced in 16th century Scotland? Sandy R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For list members outside the US, those of us from this tradition are often termed, affectionately, or more often otherwise, "hill billies." There is a similar tradition in Canada of a distinctive form of English leading to the term "Nuffie," similar to "hill billy" in intent I suppose, but I think more distinctly Irish. Anyone familiar with that dialect? I think people like to hear archaic dialects but can't seem to resist making fun of them. Seems we can't resist humor even if the intent is often not exactly benign. Charles Quoting Allene Goforth <agoforth@moscow.com>: > Charles, my husband is from that area, although his ancestors came from > a place near York, England, in the 1600s. ( He is in Haplogroup J2b2.) > > I think Scots-Irish is more appropriate, but I've seen it as > Scotch-Irish as well. The latter does tend to make a person thirsty! I > can't find my copy of The Story of English to verify this, but some of > their expressions are supposed to go back to Elizabethan England. > > Allene > > On 7/3/2011 5:34 AM, Charles Cain wrote: >> Jerry >> >> On a more serious note, I think Mr. Cassidy has a point, particularly >> in a region of the US called "Appalachia," that part of the >> Appalachian Mountains extending all the way from western Pennsylvania >> (or even into New York) to northern Alabama. It is a treasure trove of >> archaic English expressions and many, I suppose, originating in >> Ireland or Scotland. It was settled originally by Scots-Irish in the >> mid to late 1700s and early 1800s. Until recently, TV and all that, it >> remained culturally distinct. Many of the US M222 live or came from >> there. >> >> Coming out of that tradition on both parents side, I really enjoyed >> hearing the old speech as a child. It is disappearing fast. >> >> Charles >> >> PS Do folks prefer Scots-Irish or Scotch-Irish? One sounds like an >> interesting whiskey blend. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Modern Irish words for that kind of personal charm include plámás and >>> carasma (taken directly from the word 'charisma'). Words for a charm >>> used to cast spells include briocht, ortha (derived from the Latin 'oro'), >>> piseog, and draíocht (the modern spelling of druidheacht / druidry). >>> >>> There was a very nice fellow by the name of Daniel Cassidy who claimed that >>> large amounts of American slang came from Irish Gaelic. As far as my >>> friends and I have been able to tell, he was not an Irish speaker and many >>> of his claims seem unlikely. Is that where the mojo idea came from? >>> >>> Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, >>> Jerry >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com >>> [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Charles Cain >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 11:13 AM >>> To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain >>> >>> For those of you who don't understand the ancient Irish language...mine >>> being somewhat incomplete by admission..."Mojo" means "charm" or ability to >>> influence others." >>> >>> Anyone confirm? >>> >>> Charles >>> >>> >>> >>> R1b1c7 Research and Links: >>> >>> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> R1b1c7 Research and Links: >> >> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

My wife and I lived in Green Bank, WVa twice for a total of about four years. The language there often contained interesting words, one of them being 'baseborn'. There is another place where language dates back some centuries — on Tangier Island in the middle of Chesapeake Bay. There is a great book on the early history of colonial America called "Albion's Seed". It is long, but divided in sections that trace the English origins of the early settlers of Massachusetts, the Quakers of Pennsylvania, the early settlers of Virginia and the folks who settled in Appalachia. The latter came from the borderlands between England and Scotland. The wars across that border provided a feisty background to understanding the mindset of the people who engaged in the wars that often occurred between families in Appalachia - notably the Hatfields and the McCoys! I highly recommend Albion's Seed to all. - Bye from Bill Howard On Jul 3, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Allene Goforth wrote: > Charles, my husband is from that area, although his ancestors came from > a place near York, England, in the 1600s. ( He is in Haplogroup J2b2.) > > I think Scots-Irish is more appropriate, but I've seen it as > Scotch-Irish as well. The latter does tend to make a person thirsty! I > can't find my copy of The Story of English to verify this, but some of > their expressions are supposed to go back to Elizabethan England. > > Allene > > On 7/3/2011 5:34 AM, Charles Cain wrote: >> Jerry >> >> On a more serious note, I think Mr. Cassidy has a point, particularly >> in a region of the US called "Appalachia," that part of the >> Appalachian Mountains extending all the way from western Pennsylvania >> (or even into New York) to northern Alabama. It is a treasure trove of >> archaic English expressions and many, I suppose, originating in >> Ireland or Scotland. It was settled originally by Scots-Irish in the >> mid to late 1700s and early 1800s. Until recently, TV and all that, it >> remained culturally distinct. Many of the US M222 live or came from >> there. >> >> Coming out of that tradition on both parents side, I really enjoyed >> hearing the old speech as a child. It is disappearing fast. >> >> Charles >> >> PS Do folks prefer Scots-Irish or Scotch-Irish? One sounds like an >> interesting whiskey blend. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Modern Irish words for that kind of personal charm include plámás and >>> carasma (taken directly from the word 'charisma'). Words for a charm >>> used to cast spells include briocht, ortha (derived from the Latin 'oro'), >>> piseog, and draíocht (the modern spelling of druidheacht / druidry). >>> >>> There was a very nice fellow by the name of Daniel Cassidy who claimed that >>> large amounts of American slang came from Irish Gaelic. As far as my >>> friends and I have been able to tell, he was not an Irish speaker and many >>> of his claims seem unlikely. Is that where the mojo idea came from? >>> >>> Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, >>> Jerry >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com >>> [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Charles Cain >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 11:13 AM >>> To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain >>> >>> For those of you who don't understand the ancient Irish language...mine >>> being somewhat incomplete by admission..."Mojo" means "charm" or ability to >>> influence others." >>> >>> Anyone confirm? >>> >>> Charles >>> >>> >>> >>> R1b1c7 Research and Links: >>> >>> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> R1b1c7 Research and Links: >> >> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In Canada, "Nuffie" refers to people from Newfoundland - where geographical conditions are very rugged and contact between parts of the island and the mainland was almost non-existent for many decades. This isolation led to a distinct dialect of old English being used by many who lived there. Outside of Newfoundland, the word is usually used to imply ignorance and backwardness, just as the word hillbilly is used in the US. The use of both words is almost always derogatory in my opinion. Marianne At 11:38 AM 7/3/2011 -0400, you wrote: >For list members outside the US, those of us from this tradition are >often termed, affectionately, or more often otherwise, "hill billies." > There is a similar tradition in Canada of a distinctive form of >English leading to the term "Nuffie," similar to "hill billy" in >intent I suppose, but I think more distinctly Irish. Anyone familiar >with that dialect? > >I think people like to hear archaic dialects but can't seem to resist >making fun of them. Seems we can't resist humor even if the intent is >often not exactly benign. > >Charles > > > > > > > > >Quoting Allene Goforth <agoforth@moscow.com>: > > > Charles, my husband is from that area, although his ancestors came from > > a place near York, England, in the 1600s. ( He is in Haplogroup J2b2.) > > > > I think Scots-Irish is more appropriate, but I've seen it as > > Scotch-Irish as well. The latter does tend to make a person thirsty! I > > can't find my copy of The Story of English to verify this, but some of > > their expressions are supposed to go back to Elizabethan England. > > > > Allene > > > > On 7/3/2011 5:34 AM, Charles Cain wrote: > >> Jerry > >> > >> On a more serious note, I think Mr. Cassidy has a point, particularly > >> in a region of the US called "Appalachia," that part of the > >> Appalachian Mountains extending all the way from western Pennsylvania > >> (or even into New York) to northern Alabama. It is a treasure trove of > >> archaic English expressions and many, I suppose, originating in > >> Ireland or Scotland. It was settled originally by Scots-Irish in the > >> mid to late 1700s and early 1800s. Until recently, TV and all that, it > >> remained culturally distinct. Many of the US M222 live or came from > >> there. > >> > >> Coming out of that tradition on both parents side, I really enjoyed > >> hearing the old speech as a child. It is disappearing fast. > >> > >> Charles > >> > >> PS Do folks prefer Scots-Irish or Scotch-Irish? One sounds like an > >> interesting whiskey blend. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> Modern Irish words for that kind of personal charm include plámás and > >>> carasma (taken directly from the word 'charisma'). Words for a charm > >>> used to cast spells include briocht, ortha > (derived from the Latin 'oro'), > >>> piseog, and draíocht (the modern spelling of druidheacht / druidry). > > >>> > >>> There was a very nice fellow by the name of > Daniel Cassidy who claimed that > >>> large amounts of American slang came from Irish Gaelic. As far as my > >>> friends and I have been able to tell, he > was not an Irish speaker and many > >>> of his claims seem unlikely. Is that where the mojo idea came from? > >>> > >>> Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, > >>> Jerry > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > >>> [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Charles Cain > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 11:13 AM > >>> To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > >>> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain > >>> > >>> For those of you who don't understand the ancient Irish language...mine > >>> being somewhat incomplete by > admission..."Mojo" means "charm" or ability to > >>> influence others." > >>> > >>> Anyone confirm? > >>> > >>> Charles > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> R1b1c7 Research and Links: > >>> > >>> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >> > >> > >> R1b1c7 Research and Links: > >> > >> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > >http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with >the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >subject and the body of the message > > > >----- >No virus found in this message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 10.0.1388 / Virus Database: 1516/3740 - Release Date: 07/02/11

If anyone is curious, here is a page with a selection from Daniel Cassidy's book about Nineteenth Century American slang from Irish, which Jerry mentions: http://www.counterpunch.org/cassidy05132006.html Gerry Hoy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Kelly Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 12:05 AM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain Hi Charles, Modern Irish words for that kind of personal charm include plámás and carasma (taken directly from the word 'charisma'). Words for a charm used to cast spells include briocht, ortha (derived from the Latin 'oro'), piseog, and draíocht (the modern spelling of druidheacht / druidry). There was a very nice fellow by the name of Daniel Cassidy who claimed that large amounts of American slang came from Irish Gaelic. As far as my friends and I have been able to tell, he was not an Irish speaker and many of his claims seem unlikely. Is that where the mojo idea came from? Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, Jerry -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Charles Cain Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 11:13 AM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain For those of you who don't understand the ancient Irish language...mine being somewhat incomplete by admission..."Mojo" means "charm" or ability to influence others." Anyone confirm? Charles R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jerry On a more serious note, I think Mr. Cassidy has a point, particularly in a region of the US called "Appalachia," that part of the Appalachian Mountains extending all the way from western Pennsylvania (or even into New York) to northern Alabama. It is a treasure trove of archaic English expressions and many, I suppose, originating in Ireland or Scotland. It was settled originally by Scots-Irish in the mid to late 1700s and early 1800s. Until recently, TV and all that, it remained culturally distinct. Many of the US M222 live or came from there. Coming out of that tradition on both parents side, I really enjoyed hearing the old speech as a child. It is disappearing fast. Charles PS Do folks prefer Scots-Irish or Scotch-Irish? One sounds like an interesting whiskey blend. > > Modern Irish words for that kind of personal charm include plámás and > carasma (taken directly from the word 'charisma'). Words for a charm > used to cast spells include briocht, ortha (derived from the Latin 'oro'), > piseog, and draíocht (the modern spelling of druidheacht / druidry). > > There was a very nice fellow by the name of Daniel Cassidy who claimed that > large amounts of American slang came from Irish Gaelic. As far as my > friends and I have been able to tell, he was not an Irish speaker and many > of his claims seem unlikely. Is that where the mojo idea came from? > > Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, > Jerry > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Charles Cain > Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 11:13 AM > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain > > For those of you who don't understand the ancient Irish language...mine > being somewhat incomplete by admission..."Mojo" means "charm" or ability to > influence others." > > Anyone confirm? > > Charles > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Jerry Sorry...just trying to inject a bit of humor into the mix! As far as I know, "mojo" is of African origin via the Caribbean or southern US...apparently a common term in New Orleans meaning ability to influence via magical charm. Some of us got it and some of us don't. Still....who knows? I read something on here about king tut who, I guess, if not of very old Irish, was likely of African origin. Gottta have some humor guys! Charles Quoting Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@att.net>: > Hi Charles, > > Modern Irish words for that kind of personal charm include plámás and > carasma (taken directly from the word 'charisma'). Words for a charm > used to cast spells include briocht, ortha (derived from the Latin 'oro'), > piseog, and draíocht (the modern spelling of druidheacht / druidry). > > There was a very nice fellow by the name of Daniel Cassidy who claimed that > large amounts of American slang came from Irish Gaelic. As far as my > friends and I have been able to tell, he was not an Irish speaker and many > of his claims seem unlikely. Is that where the mojo idea came from? > > Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, > Jerry > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Charles Cain > Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 11:13 AM > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain > > For those of you who don't understand the ancient Irish language...mine > being somewhat incomplete by admission..."Mojo" means "charm" or ability to > influence others." > > Anyone confirm? > > Charles > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

_ The Ash tree in the Celtic Horoscope in SpiritProject_ (http://www.spiritproject.com/horoscope/celts/ash.htm) www.spiritproject.com/horoscope/celts/ash.htm - _Cached_ (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:jMdaBAJnagMJ:www.spiritproject.com/horosc ope/celts/ash.htm+Celt.)+Dweller+at+the+Ash-+Tree+...&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl= us&source=www.google.com) The Celtic Horoscope of the Druids Ash Tree ... That is what all ash-tree-born are longing for. They are looking for the same qualities in others. ...

Charles, my husband is from that area, although his ancestors came from a place near York, England, in the 1600s. ( He is in Haplogroup J2b2.) I think Scots-Irish is more appropriate, but I've seen it as Scotch-Irish as well. The latter does tend to make a person thirsty! I can't find my copy of The Story of English to verify this, but some of their expressions are supposed to go back to Elizabethan England. Allene On 7/3/2011 5:34 AM, Charles Cain wrote: > Jerry > > On a more serious note, I think Mr. Cassidy has a point, particularly > in a region of the US called "Appalachia," that part of the > Appalachian Mountains extending all the way from western Pennsylvania > (or even into New York) to northern Alabama. It is a treasure trove of > archaic English expressions and many, I suppose, originating in > Ireland or Scotland. It was settled originally by Scots-Irish in the > mid to late 1700s and early 1800s. Until recently, TV and all that, it > remained culturally distinct. Many of the US M222 live or came from > there. > > Coming out of that tradition on both parents side, I really enjoyed > hearing the old speech as a child. It is disappearing fast. > > Charles > > PS Do folks prefer Scots-Irish or Scotch-Irish? One sounds like an > interesting whiskey blend. > > > > > > > >> Modern Irish words for that kind of personal charm include plámás and >> carasma (taken directly from the word 'charisma'). Words for a charm >> used to cast spells include briocht, ortha (derived from the Latin 'oro'), >> piseog, and draíocht (the modern spelling of druidheacht / druidry). >> >> There was a very nice fellow by the name of Daniel Cassidy who claimed that >> large amounts of American slang came from Irish Gaelic. As far as my >> friends and I have been able to tell, he was not an Irish speaker and many >> of his claims seem unlikely. Is that where the mojo idea came from? >> >> Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, >> Jerry >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Charles Cain >> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 11:13 AM >> To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain >> >> For those of you who don't understand the ancient Irish language...mine >> being somewhat incomplete by admission..."Mojo" means "charm" or ability to >> influence others." >> >> Anyone confirm? >> >> Charles >> >> >> >> R1b1c7 Research and Links: >> >> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

_Surnames of the United Kingdom: A Concise Etymological Dictionary - Google Books Result_ (http://books.google.com/books?id=0kc60WqxYK4C&pg=PA13&lpg=PA13&dq=ashley+tree+dwellers&source=bl&ots=ryxrvwFHzQ&sig=OW3r-k6OTQ6OmQ2xVnS SQeJIySQ&hl=en&ei=klQQTtX_OsLDgQeAoOCDDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnu m=9&sqi=2&ved=0CFIQ6AEwCA) books.google.com/books?isbn=0806301716..._Henry Harrison_ (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=790&bih=477&tbm=bks&q=inauthor:"Henry+Harrison"&sa=X& ei=klQQTtX_OsLDgQeAoOCDDg&sqi=2&ved=0CFMQ9Ag) - 1996 - Language Arts & Disciplines - 622 pages [OE œsc + ford] ASHLEY (Eng.) Bel. to Ashley = 1 the Ash-Tree Lea. [OE œsc + leak] 2 .íEsc's Lea. [v. Asha] ASH LIN (Eng. + Celt.) Dweller at the Ash- Tree ...

Hi Charles, Modern Irish words for that kind of personal charm include plámás and carasma (taken directly from the word 'charisma'). Words for a charm used to cast spells include briocht, ortha (derived from the Latin 'oro'), piseog, and draíocht (the modern spelling of druidheacht / druidry). There was a very nice fellow by the name of Daniel Cassidy who claimed that large amounts of American slang came from Irish Gaelic. As far as my friends and I have been able to tell, he was not an Irish speaker and many of his claims seem unlikely. Is that where the mojo idea came from? Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, Jerry -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Charles Cain Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 11:13 AM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain For those of you who don't understand the ancient Irish language...mine being somewhat incomplete by admission..."Mojo" means "charm" or ability to influence others." Anyone confirm? Charles

Go raibh maith agat, a Chathail. / Thanks, Charles. The word 'Gall' is very old in Irish. It originally meant a person from Gaul (pre-Frankish France). Such Gauls are specifically mentioned in certain old texts such as Tairired na nDéssi ('The Expulsion of the Déisi'). Eventually 'Gall' came to mean a foreigner and was used in turn for Vikings, for participants in the Cambro-Norman invasion (Normans, Welsh, Bretons, Flemings, Anglo-Saxons), and finally for English. I've haven't seen or heard it applied to Ireland's new immigrants, but that could come next. Magnus is indeed of Viking origin, but borrowing of such names did indeed happen in family's without Viking blood. For example, the Ó Briain (O'Brien) family are a branch of the Uí Thoirdhealbhaigh ('Descendants of Thor-Shaped') of the Dál gCais. Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, Jerry Cló an Druaidh / The Druid Press www.druidpress.com -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Charles Cain Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 3:41 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] Con muighe na nGall O'Cathain I have wondered if the '"foreign" reference goes back several centuries when the Vikings were playing a large role in Ireland. Consider: "Magnus of the Battle of Down..." Am I wrong in assuming that Magnus is a name of Viking origin? If so, seems a little strange to me for good Irishmen to take Viking names. Unless, of course, if the Vikings were not always seen as an enemy. Could names like "Magnus," and reference to foreign influence, go back to the Vikings who may not have always been viewed, as they seem from our perspective, as the enemy? Charles

Can anyone suggest how McKynueis would have been pronounced in 16th century Scotland? Sandy

There's a McConnochie who claims Argyllshire descent in the site http://www.familytreedna.com/public/BritishIsles/default.aspx?section=yresul ts The McConchie who has just joined looks quite close to the Argyllshire one in that both of them have 19-19 where most M222 have 19-23 (I can't think of the marker off-hand). Also, from the Lamont Papers, in 1620 an Archibald M'Connachie alias Lawmont in Ewnechan witnessed some legal document. The old Scots spelling for M'Connachie was McConquhy. I'll look a bit more closely tomorrow. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Kelly Sent: 01 July 2011 17:09 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] McConchie A Shea/in a chara / Hi John, McConchie can also be Mac Dhonnchaidh, a late medieval / early modern variation of Mac Donnchadha of the Si/ol Mhuireadhaigh of the Ui/ Bhriu/in Ai/ of the Connachta of the Fe/ini. Ran across that variation when doing research on that family. Hope that's helpful. Le gach dea-ghui/ Best, Jerry Cló an Druaidh / The Druid Press www.druidpress.com ________________________________ From: "Lochlan@aol.com" <Lochlan@aol.com> To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, June 30, 2011 11:07:27 PM Subject: [R-M222] McConchie A McConchie just joined the M222 project with 111 markers. That would seem to be another Scottish surname. His two closest matches at 37 markers are: Mr. Edwin Shazell 2gd Lawrence Michael Dill 2gd Same closest two matches at 67 markers. John R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am interested to know what any of you make of the following snippet from the *Ordnance gazetteer of Scotland: a survey of Scottish topography, statistical, biographical, and historical* which is available online at http://www.archive.org/stream/ordnancegazett01ingroo/ordnancegazett01ingroo_djvu.txt This looks to be an OCR generated document; I have made no effort to correct the typography. An ancient Caledonian tribe, called the Epidii, occu- pied the great part of wdiat is now Argyllshire. They took their name from the word Ebyd, signifying 'a peninsula,' and designating what is now Kintyre, which hence was anciently called the Epidian promontory. They spread as far N as Loch Linnhe and the Braes of ( dcnoivby ; they must have lived in a very dispersed condition; they necessarily were cut into sections by- great natural barriers; they likewise, from the character ol their boundaries on the N and the E, must have been niii.-h separated from the other Caledonian tribes; and they do not appear to have been disturbed even re- motely by the Romans. They were, in great degree, an isolated people; and in so far as they had communica- tion with other territories than their own, they seem to have had it, for a long time, far more with Erin than with Caledonia. Some of them, at an early period, pro- bably before the Christian era, emigrated to the NE coast of Ireland, and laid there the foundation of a prosperous settlement, under the name of Dalriada. A native tribe, called the Cruithne, was there before them; took its name from words signifying 'eaters of corn;' is thought to have been addicted to the cultivation of the ground, in contrast to a pastoral or roving mode of life: and seems to have easily yielded itself into absorp- tion with the immigrants. An intermingled race of Kpidii and Cruithne arose, took the name of Dalriads • a- Dalriada], s, adopted the Christian faith from theearly Culdoe, ,,| 1-ain. and arc presumed to have combined the comparatively pastoral habits of the Epidii with the land-cultivating habits of the Cruithne. A colony of tl'es. Daliiadso, Dalriadans came, in the year 503, to- Kintyre : brought with them the practices of the Christian religion, and improved practices in the com- mon. ,- aits ,,t life; sent off detachments to various centres oi the old Epidian region, especially to Islay and to Lorn: acquired ascendency through all the country of the Epidii; and established at Dunstaffnage, in the ARGYLLSHIRE neighbourhood of Oban, a monarchy which is usually regarded by historians as the parent monarchy of Scotland. Further notices of that early monarchy will be given under the heading Dunstalfnage. King Kenneth, who began to reign at Dunstalfnage in H0.\ was the maternal grandson of a king of Pictavia, who dir.l without any male heir in S33, and he made a claim to be that king's successor, contested the claim for several years with two competitors, and eventually en- forced it by strength of victory; united the crown of Pictavia to the crown of Dalriada: and established, in breadth and permanency, the kingdom of Scotland. The territory now tunning Argyllshire, while it had been the cradle of the Scottish kingdom, became thence- forth no more than an outlying portion of it; and it soon began to be much disturbed by invasions and tbrays of Norsemen and other depredators who swept the seas... David Ewing

Mark McConchie and Edwin Shazell have the allele of 16 at both DYS 395S1a and DYS 395S1b. Do Mark McConchie and Edwin Shazell have a DYS 395 RecLOH? Kay Bachmann has identified the off-markers of Mark McConchie which probably identifies his cluster within the R-M222 haplogroup. Mark McConchie also has the off-markers of YCA (alleles 19-19) and DYS 413 (alleles 21-25). The YCA's and 413's and the seven slowest moving markers are shared by people with the following names is alphabetical order: Dill, McConchie, McGee, McLeod, and Shazell.

A Shea/in a chara / Hi John, McConchie can also be Mac Dhonnchaidh, a late medieval / early modern variation of Mac Donnchadha of the Si/ol Mhuireadhaigh of the Ui/ Bhriu/in Ai/ of the Connachta of the Fe/ini. Ran across that variation when doing research on that family. Hope that's helpful. Le gach dea-ghui/ Best, Jerry Cló an Druaidh / The Druid Press www.druidpress.com ________________________________ From: "Lochlan@aol.com" <Lochlan@aol.com> To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, June 30, 2011 11:07:27 PM Subject: [R-M222] McConchie A McConchie just joined the M222 project with 111 markers. That would seem to be another Scottish surname. His two closest matches at 37 markers are: Mr. Edwin Shazell 2gd Lawrence Michael Dill 2gd Same closest two matches at 67 markers. John R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

"Paul, do you think McBirney would be of Clan Birn? The reason I ask is that one of the locals in Dunoon is a McBirney, and has a paper trail going back 15 generations. I haven't seen it, but could enquire if you're interested." Sandy - Perhaps not a n M222 Birne, but without testing, who knows. Bierney is one of the surnames in our project, but so far we have only two. One (66363)currently spells his name Byrne but lists as his EKA a Dennis Birney bc1810 somewhere in Ireland. However he is predicted Hg I2b1(M233). The other (U2463) is surname Bierney and traces to a William Bierney, b1871 in Wexford. He SNP tested L21/L513, and I have him placed in an "Other Airghialla-2" subgroup below my main Monaghan A-2s clusters. He is not at all close to them. I would of course be delighted if the McBierney you know would test, or even allow us to place his pedigree on our project page. Thanks, Paul

By way of clarification, I suggested the markers DYS439=13 DYS570=18 DYS710=34 DYS715=23 DYS513=14 DYS643=11 As being Cain & variants as opposed to O'Cathain. So far there are only 4 full or partial results in the O'Cathain group of 25 haplotypes for markers 68-111. Only one of them has 23,14,11 at DYS715,513,643, namely Cain. None of Devenney, McHenry or Slavens have them. Then there's a Kane in the Cain site run by Rory McCain who does have them. So if you want to know what the O'Cathain grouped modal is, use DYS439=13(18) DYS389ii=30(15) DYS570=18(14) The numbers in brackets are the number of haplotypes that are on modal out of 25. Paul, do you think McBirney would be of Clan Birn? The reason I ask is that one of the locals in Dunoon is a McBirney, and has a paper trail going back 15 generations. I haven't seen it, but could enquire if you're interested. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lochlan@aol.com Sent: 01 July 2011 01:06 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] Muinter Birn In a message dated 6/30/2011 3:28:15 A.M. Central Daylight Time, pabloburns@comcast.net writes: Of special interest to me is O'Hart's statement that some descendants anglicized their name to Bruen. I have eight M222 Byrne who are not close to my Donegal or Sligo M222s. Their roots are Monaghan, and I am wondering if they are remnants of that Muinter Birn/Cenel Eoghain group that you mentioned. Do the O Cathains have any distinctive markers, such as the 391=10 that separates this Monaghan Byrne group from my other M222s? Barra McCain's O Cathain group has just three modal identifiers in the first 37 markers. Sandy posted these a few days ago DYS439=13 DYS570=18 DYS710=34 DYS715=23 DYS513=14 DYS643=11 : To this I would add: 389ii=-30 John R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message