I can confirm your observation in your last paragraph that the Greers and Griersons are slightly less closely related. They tend to stand apart on the phylogenetic tree. - Bye from Bill Howard On Jul 20, 2011, at 5:37 AM, Alexander Paterson wrote: > Hi David > > I completely agree with your view on the importance of off-modal matches, > although I'd express it a little differently. I think all three of GD, > number of matches, and number of off-modal matches are useful, and their > inter-relationship is valuable in examining possible kinship. That's what > much of my research focuses on. I'd like, with your blessing, to use your > Chart 1d as an example. Would it be OK for me to link to it from my site? > I'm at > > http://www.tmrca.com/ > > One point you might find helpful is that DYS389ii is not actually a marker, > but the sum of two other markers, and needs special treatment. If we denote > the two single markers as 389i and 389b, we have > > 389i + 389b = 389ii > > Leaving 389ii as the labs report it can lead to a matching inaccuracy in > comparing haplotypes. This is relevant in Grierson, because of the presence > of 13-29 amongst Grier(son) but predominantly 14-29 amongst Greer. It is a > little more accurate to consider them to be > > 13-16 for Grier(son). > 14-15 for Greer. > > This leads to the conclusion that Grier(son) and Greer are slightly less > closely related than suggested if you use the results as reported by the > lab. Notwithstanding that, the abundance of off-modal matches is powerful > evidence of a close kinship. > > > Sandy > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of J David Grierson > Sent: 20 July 2011 03:12 > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] 111-Marker results > > Sandy, > That's one of the great unknowns, I'm afraid. All I can say for certain > is that the relationship is older than 300 years. However, you have > identified the point of my research (off-modal matching), which you will > see illustrated in the Grier Chart 1d (Excel) at > http://www.shade.id.au/Grierson/GriersonDNA.htm. > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If you investigate via an RCC matrix you must clear out those Zero values because they will lead to a false TMRCA for groups within a cluster. - Bye from Bill On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:51 AM, Alexander Paterson wrote: > Hello Marie > > > [1. When the kit name is in the same row as itself, Column E, "GD over > 111 markers" always = 0. I think I get that. > 2. The last column, F, "Number of off-modal matches over 111 markers" > has a value (my father's = 8), but I'm not sure what this means. Could you > please explain this?] > > > The file is essentially a comparison of each testee's 111-marker results > with each other testee's results (including a testee's own results). I > thought of excluding the comparison of each person with himself, but decided > to leave them in, because in such cases column F gives that person's > 'misses' with the M222 modal, which I thought might be interesting. > > For example, column F for James Golden, has the value 8, which means he has > 8 mismatches with the M222 modal. > > The word modal is used to describe the most common value in a haplogroup, or > a sub-clade like M222, of all the markers. So the M222 modal starts off: > > 13,25,14,11,..... > > The reason for distinguishing between an on-modal match and an off-modal > match, is that on-modal matches are common, whereas off-modal matches occur > far less frequently, and should therefore be more helpful in recognising > likely kinship. This is particularly so in M222, where a very high > proportion of testees are on modal. > > [3.Does column E (GD over 111 markers) suggest the order of presumed > consanguinity between my father and the other person? For example, is > Coyne, Kit # N32460, the closest relationship to my father? Its value = 9 > and the next one = 13.] > > The files has been sorted on column A, then within column, on column B, then > within that, it is sorted on column E, which is the GD. The idea was to sort > in order of 'relatedness', although a GD on its own is just a rough guide. > Useful, but not conclusive. So yes, Coyne N32460 is probably (but not > definitely) the closest relation to your father. Bear in mind though, that > there is only one solitary off-modal match with Coyne N32460 (column F), so > the relationship looks distant. How distant is difficult to tell, since > research on how to interpret 111-marker results has really only just begun. > > [4. What is the relationship between columns E and F? Does the "GD over > 111 markers" (column E) of the person next to my father refer to the > differences between my father and the other person or is it just associated > with that person?] > > The GD's are the differences between two people. Columns E & F have no > direct connection with each other in the sense that that a high value in E > doesn't necessarily mean a high value in F. However, a high value in F > suggests that the value in E has probably underestimated the relatedness > between the two people, whereas a low value in F suggests that the degree of > relatedness is probably overestimated. > > [5. I assume a "9" in column E trumps a 13, but what is the difference > between a 15/0 vs. a 15/2 in columns E and F? in this example, the15/2 > comes before the 15/0, so I'm wondering how to interpret this.] > > Yes, a 9 suggests a closer relationship than a 13. Also, 15/2 is closer than > 15/0, but I didn't go as far as sorting on column F, so the fact that the > list shows 15/2 before 15/0 is probably just a co-incidence. The feeling I > get when doing this kind of analysis is that there's not much difference > between 15/0 and 15/1, and it's really only when you get to 3 or more > off-modal matches that things become interesting. > > I hope this helps. > > > Sandy > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marie Kerr > Sent: 20 July 2011 01:20 > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] 111-Marker results > > Thank you; this looks very interesting. However, I don't fully understand > the meaning of the table: > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you!! -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Paterson Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 2:51 AM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] 111-Marker results Hello Marie [1. When the kit name is in the same row as itself, Column E, "GD over 111 markers" always = 0. I think I get that. 2. The last column, F, "Number of off-modal matches over 111 markers" has a value (my father's = 8), but I'm not sure what this means. Could you please explain this?] The file is essentially a comparison of each testee's 111-marker results with each other testee's results (including a testee's own results). I thought of excluding the comparison of each person with himself, but decided to leave them in, because in such cases column F gives that person's 'misses' with the M222 modal, which I thought might be interesting. For example, column F for James Golden, has the value 8, which means he has 8 mismatches with the M222 modal. The word modal is used to describe the most common value in a haplogroup, or a sub-clade like M222, of all the markers. So the M222 modal starts off: 13,25,14,11,..... The reason for distinguishing between an on-modal match and an off-modal match, is that on-modal matches are common, whereas off-modal matches occur far less frequently, and should therefore be more helpful in recognising likely kinship. This is particularly so in M222, where a very high proportion of testees are on modal. [3.Does column E (GD over 111 markers) suggest the order of presumed consanguinity between my father and the other person? For example, is Coyne, Kit # N32460, the closest relationship to my father? Its value = 9 and the next one = 13.] The files has been sorted on column A, then within column, on column B, then within that, it is sorted on column E, which is the GD. The idea was to sort in order of 'relatedness', although a GD on its own is just a rough guide. Useful, but not conclusive. So yes, Coyne N32460 is probably (but not definitely) the closest relation to your father. Bear in mind though, that there is only one solitary off-modal match with Coyne N32460 (column F), so the relationship looks distant. How distant is difficult to tell, since research on how to interpret 111-marker results has really only just begun. [4. What is the relationship between columns E and F? Does the "GD over 111 markers" (column E) of the person next to my father refer to the differences between my father and the other person or is it just associated with that person?] The GD's are the differences between two people. Columns E & F have no direct connection with each other in the sense that that a high value in E doesn't necessarily mean a high value in F. However, a high value in F suggests that the value in E has probably underestimated the relatedness between the two people, whereas a low value in F suggests that the degree of relatedness is probably overestimated. [5. I assume a "9" in column E trumps a 13, but what is the difference between a 15/0 vs. a 15/2 in columns E and F? in this example, the15/2 comes before the 15/0, so I'm wondering how to interpret this.] Yes, a 9 suggests a closer relationship than a 13. Also, 15/2 is closer than 15/0, but I didn't go as far as sorting on column F, so the fact that the list shows 15/2 before 15/0 is probably just a co-incidence. The feeling I get when doing this kind of analysis is that there's not much difference between 15/0 and 15/1, and it's really only when you get to 3 or more off-modal matches that things become interesting. I hope this helps. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marie Kerr Sent: 20 July 2011 01:20 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] 111-Marker results Thank you; this looks very interesting. However, I don't fully understand the meaning of the table: R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Marie [1. When the kit name is in the same row as itself, Column E, "GD over 111 markers" always = 0. I think I get that. 2. The last column, F, "Number of off-modal matches over 111 markers" has a value (my father's = 8), but I'm not sure what this means. Could you please explain this?] The file is essentially a comparison of each testee's 111-marker results with each other testee's results (including a testee's own results). I thought of excluding the comparison of each person with himself, but decided to leave them in, because in such cases column F gives that person's 'misses' with the M222 modal, which I thought might be interesting. For example, column F for James Golden, has the value 8, which means he has 8 mismatches with the M222 modal. The word modal is used to describe the most common value in a haplogroup, or a sub-clade like M222, of all the markers. So the M222 modal starts off: 13,25,14,11,..... The reason for distinguishing between an on-modal match and an off-modal match, is that on-modal matches are common, whereas off-modal matches occur far less frequently, and should therefore be more helpful in recognising likely kinship. This is particularly so in M222, where a very high proportion of testees are on modal. [3.Does column E (GD over 111 markers) suggest the order of presumed consanguinity between my father and the other person? For example, is Coyne, Kit # N32460, the closest relationship to my father? Its value = 9 and the next one = 13.] The files has been sorted on column A, then within column, on column B, then within that, it is sorted on column E, which is the GD. The idea was to sort in order of 'relatedness', although a GD on its own is just a rough guide. Useful, but not conclusive. So yes, Coyne N32460 is probably (but not definitely) the closest relation to your father. Bear in mind though, that there is only one solitary off-modal match with Coyne N32460 (column F), so the relationship looks distant. How distant is difficult to tell, since research on how to interpret 111-marker results has really only just begun. [4. What is the relationship between columns E and F? Does the "GD over 111 markers" (column E) of the person next to my father refer to the differences between my father and the other person or is it just associated with that person?] The GD's are the differences between two people. Columns E & F have no direct connection with each other in the sense that that a high value in E doesn't necessarily mean a high value in F. However, a high value in F suggests that the value in E has probably underestimated the relatedness between the two people, whereas a low value in F suggests that the degree of relatedness is probably overestimated. [5. I assume a "9" in column E trumps a 13, but what is the difference between a 15/0 vs. a 15/2 in columns E and F? in this example, the15/2 comes before the 15/0, so I'm wondering how to interpret this.] Yes, a 9 suggests a closer relationship than a 13. Also, 15/2 is closer than 15/0, but I didn't go as far as sorting on column F, so the fact that the list shows 15/2 before 15/0 is probably just a co-incidence. The feeling I get when doing this kind of analysis is that there's not much difference between 15/0 and 15/1, and it's really only when you get to 3 or more off-modal matches that things become interesting. I hope this helps. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marie Kerr Sent: 20 July 2011 01:20 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] 111-Marker results Thank you; this looks very interesting. However, I don't fully understand the meaning of the table:

Hi Allene, Most of my lowland knowledge focuses on Ayrshire which is a very staunchly Presbyterian area (and Covenantor hotbed too of course). I don't think I have seen any sign of Catholics there post-Reformation until the emancipations and Irish arrivals in the early 1800s. I suspect everyone just converted but I don't know. Tracing these sort of internal migrations is extremely difficult, I have spent years trying to connect the Lochaber Kennedys back to Ayrshire but not found anything. There were some highland plantation schemes in the early 1600s but most of them aren't very well documented apart from Kintyre, which doesn't seem to have involved Kennedys. It did involve some other Ayrshire families though. For Scottish history the best bet is to acquire and digest the New Edinburgh History of Scotland series which has just come out as they will lead you to the best recent scholarship. Probably for the period you mention Alex Woolf's volume Pictland to Alba would be the one to check out although I don't know how specific it is about the combination of Vikings and Galloway (which from recall isn't well understood?). You can read part of it on Google books including his Further sources section which in turn recommends a book by Barbara Crawford, Scandinavian Scotland. http://books.google.com/books?id=7d1SP6ztlq0C&dq=pictland+to+alba&source=gbs_navlinks_s But Richard Oram who wrote the 1070-1230 NEHS volume is the leading expert on Galloway so I would check out his books. Try The Lordship of Galloway which is hard to get hold of now except a library. He also co-wrote a book called Viking Empires which may be worth a look at. It's quite wide ranging but with Oram as co-author it will have its fair share of Galloway references! regards Iain http://www.kennedydna.com http://www.clangathering.org/ > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 13:47:18 -0700 > From: agoforth@moscow.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] New Tactics > > Hi Iain, > > I am putting that book on my list. Thanks for mentioning it. What about > the Lowlands? I know more about the Covenanters than I do about the > Catholics (if any) that remained after the Reformation. Did they mostly > leave the area after the Reformation? I'm trying to come up with some > solid reasons to explain why our MacAdam lines were in the Arisaig area > at the time of emigration in 1790--other than that romantic Battle of > Bloody Bay/Edmund O'Brian legend. I don't think there were many of them > there. > > On another topic, do you know of a good source of information on the > Viking period in Galloway? > > Thanks, > > Allene > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I just set up an M222 email greeting which the FTDNA system is supposed to automatically send to any new members. Welcome to the M222 Project! For background information on M222 see the following site: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ Here you'll find various articles including the groundbreaking Trinity study on the descendants of Nial, a spreadsheet version of the database you can download and use yourself and other relevant files. We also maintain an M222 discussion group on Rootsweb: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/DNA/DNA-R1B1C7.html We encourage you to join this group to discuss your own DNA with others or just to keep up with the latest developments in M222. I'm going to send out a variation of this to the entire project. I probably did not incorporate every suggestion made into this email but it is a start. I should have done this a long time ago. John

Thank you; this looks very interesting. However, I don't fully understand the meaning of the table: 1. When the kit name is in the same row as itself, Column E, "GD over 111 markers" always = 0. I think I get that. 2. The last column, F, "Number of off-modal matches over 111 markers" has a value (my father's = 8), but I'm not sure what this means. Could you please explain this? 3. Does column E (GD over 111 markers) suggest the order of presumed consanguinity between my father and the other person? For example, is Coyne, Kit # N32460, the closest relationship to my father? Its value = 9 and the next one = 13. 4. What is the relationship between columns E and F? Does the "GD over 111 markers" (column E) of the person next to my father refer to the differences between my father and the other person or is it just associated with that person? 5. I assume a "9" in column E trumps a 13, but what is the difference between a 15/0 vs. a 15/2 in columns E and F? in this example, the15/2 comes before the 15/0, so I'm wondering how to interpret this. Some of our group are so profoundly experienced in all of this that they may forget that the newbies/less academic among us are not up to their level of understanding. If you can shed light on the linked 111-marker results I would greatly appreciate it. Marie Golden Kerr (on behalf of James J. Golden, kit #35946) -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Paterson Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 5:54 AM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: [R-M222] 111-Marker results I've just done an update of 111-marker results for M222 and have posted a file at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2733445/OMM111.csv It's a comma-separated file that uploads into Excel. The columns are Surname Kit number Surname Kit number GD over 111 markers Number of off-modal matches over 111 markers There are now plenty McGonigals and variants, and I see there's a Fuller that seems quite close to them. This time I've included Hannan, and instead of excluding Burns because of the null value for one of his markers, I've changed the zero to 11. Apart from Fuller, there may also be a link between McKenzie 26794 and McGonigal from pre-surname times. Sandy R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There are multiple reasons for Catholicism surviving in these areas of the Highlands and also in Lochaber where the Kennedys are still RC now. One was a counter-reformation led by Irish missionaries, the story is told by Fiona Macdonald in an excellent book which I would recommend for anyone interested in the subject; 'Mission to the Gaels'. http://books.google.com/books?ei=acQlTrrpOsy38QP6z6WcCw&ct=result&id=H4vYAAAAMAAJ&dq=mission+to+the+gaels#search_anchor Lewis which is more my interest is heavily Free Church as of 1843, the entire parish of Lochs left the Kirk except for one drunkard. There are quite a few Morrisons there inter-marrying with the Kennedys. Iain > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 09:07:04 -0700 > From: agoforth@moscow.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] New Tactics > > Doug, > > I've been to South Uist, Benbecula, and North Uist, so I understand > about the religious division between north and south. My > g-g-g-grandfather Allan MacDonald was a Catholic from the Clanranald > family on South Uist, most of whom converted to Presbyterianism. He > emigrated to Cape Breton Island in 1823. I think there was more > blurring along religious lines than I once thought. Also, my Highland > M222 MacAdam lines (emigrated to PEI and Nova Scotia) are Catholics, but > they have distant connections, probably predating the Reformation, to > the Presbyterian McAdams of the Scottish Lowlands. > > Allene > > On 7/19/2011 8:35 AM, tuulen wrote: > > Allene, > > > > Let me admit, that although the existing DNA evidence does not support the > > rumor, > > it is tempting to believe there could be an Irish genetic presence in the > > Hebrides. > > For instance, the Outer Hebrides are not far from Ireland, and while the big > > northern > > islands became predominantly Presbyterian following the Reformation, the > > smaller > > southern islands remained Catholic, to this day. > > > > That is not evidence, but it is an interesting coincidence. > > > > Doug > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Allene Goforth<agoforth@moscow.com>wrote: > > > >> Bernard, > >> > >> I have heard that story before, although the version I heard had the > >> Morrisons of Harris in the Outer Hebrides as the descendants. The > >> Benbecula U106, L48 McPhersons in my project who are matching a small > >> group of Harris and Pabbay Morrisons are believed to be descendants of > >> the MacMhuirich bards to the Lords of the Isles and later to Clanranald. > >> > >> Yes, we had a neat little Highland Games picture of the clans for a long > >> time, especially in North American. DNA testing is blowing all that out > >> of the water, and what an interesting show it is turning out to be. > >> Allene > >> > >> On 7/19/2011 6:40 AM, Bernard Morgan wrote: > >>> Scottish Morrisons in the area of southern Inner Hebrides are Irish > >> O'Muirgheasain, who were famed bards to the Hebridean lords (MacLeod& > >> MacLean). > >>> See "O'Muirgheasain Bardic Family" in Notes&' Queries of the Society of > >> West Highland and Island Historical Research, vi (1978), 3-7. > >>> ps. Rogellus Obrolchan was secretary to Alexander Lord of the Isles in > >> 1426. > >>> (My opinion is Scottish history became Anglo-centric and the Irish sort > >> only pure Irishness, so we left to rediscover the past world of western > >> seas.) > >>> R1b1c7 Research and Links: > >>> > >>> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> R1b1c7 Research and Links: > >> > >> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I've just had a closer look at the list, and the match between Grierson 7874 and Grierson 117158 is quite enlightening. I know their paper trails are excellent too. They have a GD of 15, but with 9 off-modal matches. I'd be most interested to know how closely they are related. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Linda Sent: 19 July 2011 17:21 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: [R-M222] 111-Marker results [R-M222] 111-Marker results Sandy, Thanks for the update on the 111 markers. Doug McKee, my husband, had his second 111 markers match, just barely, with a Duncan showing up at 9gd on the 111 total. McCombs and my husband, Doug, are 7gd at 111 markers. We also recently hit at 23andme on the Relative Finder on the "blue bar". I checked out the McGee DNA web site yesterday and Doug McKee matched Dean McGee's modal for McGee better than any of his other testers that have 111 markers tested. Go figure on that. On the latest test of 68-111 Doug was only 2 off their modal. That being 522 where Doug is 12 and McGee modal is 11 and 461 where Doug is 13 and McGee modal is 12. Total 9gd on 111 McGee modal. On our FTDNA McKee Group, Doug had another match at 23andme with a female cousin of McKee member of our FTDNA group (on the "blue bar"). On 23andme's Haplogroup Tree Mutation Mapper by Brian Naughton: Doug is R1b1b2a1a2f2, M222: variant .............................call.............anc.............der rs 20321 (M222)............A...................G...............A L21+ P312 no call L52+ P311+ L11+ P310+ L51+ L23 no call L49+ S3+ M269+ P297+ P25+ M343 no call P286+ P225+ M173+ P242 no call P238+ P236+ P234+ P233+ M306+ P285 no call P224+ M207+ P227+ P280+ P232+ P229 no call P228+ P226+ P282+ P281+ M45+ M74 no call P244+ P283 no call ....................... ..........results keeps going back and back, further and further. Then, Brian's program reports on the mtDNA where Doug is U4a2. I still do not understand much about DNA but I enjoy the search and the effort to figure it out or, better yet, talk to folks who do understand it all. Seems like a really good test here from 23andme by this fellow named Brian Naughton. Dr. Ann Turner had commented about it in a post she was responding to on 23andme and following her lead I found this test. Since, it saved me the Deep Clade on FTDNA as far as I am concerned I then ordered Family Finder. Thanks for your work here Sandy. I always enjoy your posts and your exchanges with Bill and John. It is a boring morning when I don't have posts by you folks to drink my early morning coffee with. When you disagree and are able to talk about it and air it out I enjoy it even more. Your exchanges with John and Jerry on the Celtic and Gaelic side of the table are even more entertaining and educational. Now where else can one go and enjoy all that in one digest? Sometimes, you just have to take a break and play the Galway Gal from PS.............or something. I just cannot imagine the list without John writing about all this wonderful Irish history........now, where else are you going to get that? Like a good TV series when they change cast members or like 2 and 1/2 men without Charlie. Some things just work great the way they are. Linda McKee R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Linda I know FTDNA suggest that a GD of 9 over 111 markers just scrapes in, but judging from same-surname matches so far, I think we'll find over time that a GD of 9 is actually quite a close match. I know that the Ewings have some very good paper trails, and I'm looking forward to more 111-marker results for them. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Linda Sent: 19 July 2011 17:21 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: [R-M222] 111-Marker results [R-M222] 111-Marker results Sandy, Thanks for the update on the 111 markers.

Is this also the origin of the name Gilmore? Jim Wilson ----- Original Message ----- From: "tuulen" <tuulen@gmail.com> To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:51:24 PM Subject: Re: [R-M222] New Tactics Allene, The Scottish Morrison name, Mac Ghille Mhoire, is a Catholic name, and is an Anglicization of a translation of Gaelic. The first Scottish (actually, the Hebrides were not part of Scotland at that time, but of Norway) Morrison was Ghille Mhoire, or Servant of (Saint) Mary, and all subsequent family generations became Son of the Servant of (Saint) Mary, the Anglicization as Mary's Son => Morrison. Their story goes that a Norwegian man, his Irish wife and their son were shipwrecked but managed to get to the Isle of Lewis, and then stayed there. But they were on a return trip from Norway at that time, and that illustrates how the Irish could have ventured to the Hebrides, too, from an even closer distance. Doug On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Allene Goforth <agoforth@moscow.com>wrote: > Doug, > > I've been to South Uist, Benbecula, and North Uist, so I understand > about the religious division between north and south. My > g-g-g-grandfather Allan MacDonald was a Catholic from the Clanranald > family on South Uist, most of whom converted to Presbyterianism. He > emigrated to Cape Breton Island in 1823. I think there was more > blurring along religious lines than I once thought. Also, my Highland > M222 MacAdam lines (emigrated to PEI and Nova Scotia) are Catholics, but > they have distant connections, probably predating the Reformation, to > the Presbyterian McAdams of the Scottish Lowlands. > > Allene > > On 7/19/2011 8:35 AM, tuulen wrote: > > Allene, > > > > Let me admit, that although the existing DNA evidence does not support > the > > rumor, > > it is tempting to believe there could be an Irish genetic presence in the > > Hebrides. > > For instance, the Outer Hebrides are not far from Ireland, and while the > big > > northern > > islands became predominantly Presbyterian following the Reformation, the > > smaller > > southern islands remained Catholic, to this day. > > > > That is not evidence, but it is an interesting coincidence. > > > > Doug > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Allene Goforth<agoforth@moscow.com > >wrote: > > > >> Bernard, > >> > >> I have heard that story before, although the version I heard had the > >> Morrisons of Harris in the Outer Hebrides as the descendants. The > >> Benbecula U106, L48 McPhersons in my project who are matching a small > >> group of Harris and Pabbay Morrisons are believed to be descendants of > >> the MacMhuirich bards to the Lords of the Isles and later to Clanranald. > >> > >> Yes, we had a neat little Highland Games picture of the clans for a long > >> time, especially in North American. DNA testing is blowing all that out > >> of the water, and what an interesting show it is turning out to be. > >> Allene > >> > >> On 7/19/2011 6:40 AM, Bernard Morgan wrote: > >>> Scottish Morrisons in the area of southern Inner Hebrides are Irish > >> O'Muirgheasain, who were famed bards to the Hebridean lords (MacLeod& > >> MacLean). > >>> See "O'Muirgheasain Bardic Family" in Notes&' Queries of the Society of > >> West Highland and Island Historical Research, vi (1978), 3-7. > >>> ps. Rogellus Obrolchan was secretary to Alexander Lord of the Isles in > >> 1426. > >>> (My opinion is Scottish history became Anglo-centric and the Irish sort > >> only pure Irishness, so we left to rediscover the past world of western > >> seas.) > >>> R1b1c7 Research and Links: > >>> > >>> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> R1b1c7 Research and Links: > >> > >> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jerry, I went to the Irish website, where I see language instruction is arranged in courses which have a semester-like schedule, and I am wondering what sort of time commitment could be involved in a typical course. Thanks! Doug On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@att.net> wrote: > Fa/ilte romhat, a Dhubhghlais. / You're welcome, Doug. > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: tuulen <tuulen@gmail.com> > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tue, July 19, 2011 1:19:30 PM > Subject: Re: [R-M222] free Irish Gaelic and Scottish Gaelic on-line courses > > Jerry, > > Thank you! > > I have studied other languages, and know that such studies demand > commitment. > Learning another language, including all of its idiomatic ways, means > having > to > learn how to see the world through new eyes, which is no small undertaking. > > Doug > > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@att.net> wrote: > > > Hi Doug, > > > > You mentioned your interest in the language. > > > > Cumann Carad na Gaeilge / The Philo-Celtic Society provides free Irish > > Gaelic > > courses on the internet at all levels at > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/philo-celticsociety/ > > > > We're on summer break now but many students are reviewing the last term's > > material (February 1 to June 17) in preparation for the Fall term > beginning > > September 1. > > > > There is also the Scottish Gaelic group at > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scottish_gaelic_group/ > > > > Le gach dea-ghui/ > > > > Best, > > Jerry > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: tuulen <tuulen@gmail.com> > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Tue, July 19, 2011 1:05:29 AM > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] New Tactics > > > > John, > > > > As could be obvious by my earlier ignorance in regard to Irish Morrisons, > > I know little of Irish history, but let me balance that by admitting that > I > > know > > little of Scottish history, too. And only now am I beginning to explore > > them. > > > > To make that just a bit easier, apparently surnames are not much more > > than a thousand years old, and relatively few names are older than that. > > > > I do have an interest in languages, although I know nothing of Irish, but > > seeing as my genetic lineage begins in northern Ulster, and seeing as > > Co. Donegal is home to one of Ireland's gaeltacht regions, I could have > > honest reason to study Irish, and maybe even learn some of it. > > > > Doug > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:52 PM, <Lochlan@aol.com> wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 7/18/2011 10:13:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > > > tuulen@gmail.com writes: > > > > > > So, until further evidence appears, I can identify my genetic origin > > with > > > confidence, but the origin of the Morrison name remains less certain, > > > likely > > > Irish, but only likely. > > > > > > That was well done. I was struck by the references to Columcille in > the > > > sources I saw. His church in the city of Derry had numerous > > connections > > > with Iona in Scotland. In particular I have some data showing > > connections > > > between another Inishowen family, the O'Brollaghans, and Iona. > > > > > > This doesn't have anything to do with O'Morrisons but is interesting > (to > > me > > > at least). > > > > > > The O Brolchain Family > > > Notes from Reeves "Life of St. Columba," by Adamnan > > > > > > XLVII - Flaithbertach Coarb 1150-1175. [Introduction, p. clxxx] > > > > > > Surnamed Ua Brolchain. The family of Ua Brolchain were descended > > > from Suibhne Meann, who wqas king of Ireland in 615, and belonged > > > to the Cinel Feradhaich, a clan so called from Feradhach, grandfather > > > of that Suibhne Meann, and fourth in descent from Eoghan, the founder > > > of the Cinel-Eoghain race. The Cinel Feradhiach are now territorially > > > represented by the barony of Clogher, in the south of the county of > > > Tryone. The first of the O'Brolchan family who is mentioned in the > > > Annals was Maelbrighde Ua Brolchan, styled prim saer Erren ["chief > mason > > > of Ireland"- Od Vers],, whose obit is entered in the ann. Ult. at > 1029. > > > >From him probably the masonic art of the family was derived, which > was > > > cultivated by Flaherty, and practiced by Donnell, with such success. > > > The next was Maeliosa, the lector whose obit is entered above at 1086. > > > He spent a part of his early life at Both-chonais in Inishowen, in the > > > neighbourhood of which some of his writings were preserved in Colgan's > > > time; and afterwards he founded a church seemingly at Lismore, called > > > the derteac Maeiliosa, "Oratory of Maeliosa," which was burned in > 1116. > > > He died on the 16th of January, justly celebrated for his learning > > > (Colgan, Acta SS. p. 108). His son, Aedh, succeeded him in the > calling > > > of professor, and died in 1095. Two years afterwards a son of > > Maelbrighde, > > > surnamed Mac-an-tsaeir, who was bishop of Kildare, died. Maelcolaim > Ua > > > Brolchain, bishop of Armagh, died in 1122; and Maelbrighde Ua > Brolchain, > > > also bishop of Armagh, died, Jan. 29, 1139. The latter was probably > > > father of the coarb Flaithbertach, whom the Annals of Ulster, aqt > 1164, > > > called Flaithbertach mac in epsuic hUi Brolcain, "Flaithbertach, son > of > > > the bishp Ua Brolchan," a lineage by no means in accordance with the > > > delicacy of the Four Masters, and which, when copying the entry, they > > > divest of its objectional character, in simply calling him > Flaithbertach > > > Ua Brolchain. Domhnall Ua Brolchain was prior of Derry, and died Apr. > > 27, > > > 1202. His name is inscribed on one of the capitals in the cathedral > of > > > Hy, in the form Donaldus Obrolcan (vid. 1202, App. III). Finn Ua > > Brolchan > > > was steward of O'Donnell in 1213; and Flann Ua Brolchain was coarb of > > > Columcille in 1219. In 1548 died Sir John Obrolchan, rector of > > Kildalton, > > > in Islay (Orig. Paroch. vol. ii. p 269) The name was afterwards > writtten > > > O'Brollaghan, and is now corrupted, in Ulster, to Bradley. Through > > > the influence of Gilla-mac-Liag of Gelasius, the abbot of Armagh, who > > > had himself been previously abbbot of Derry (an. 1137) , Flaithbertach > > > Ua Brolchain was raised to the dignity of bishop in 1158, as is thus > > > recorded by the Four Masters: "A Synod of the clergy of Ireland was > > > convened at Bri-mic-Taidhg, in Meath, where there were present 25 > > bishops, > > > with the Legate of the coarb of Peter, to ordain rules and good > morals. > > > It was on this occasion that the clergy of Ireland, with the coarb of > > > Patrick, ordered a chair, like every other bishop's, for the coarb of > > > Columcille, Flaithbertach Ua Brolchain, and the arch-abbacy of the > > > churches of Ireland in general." He was a zealous advancer of the > > > welfare of Derry, and during his incumbency many important additions > > > were made to its ecclesiastical buildings; to precure funds for which, > > > the abbot had, during the years 1150, 1151, 1153, 1161, visited, and > > > obtained contributions from various territories in Ulster and Ossory. > > > After a long life spent in the enregetic discharge of his duties, he > > > died in 1175, at which year his obit is thus recorded by the Four > > > Masters: "Flaithbertach Ua Brolchain, coarb of Columcille, a tower > > > of wisdom and hospitality, a man on whom, on account of his goodness > > > and wisdom, the clergy of Ireland had bestowed a bishop's chair, and > > > to whom the abbacy of Hy (comhorbus Uae) had been offered (an. 1164), > > > died in righteousness, after exemplary sickness, in the Duibhregles > > > of Columcille; and Gilla-mac-Liag Ua Branain was appointed to his > > > place in the abbacy." > > > > > > Donal O Brolchain [1202] > > > > > > "The unusual record on the capital of the tower column, DONALDUS > > OBROLOHAN > > > FECIT HOC OPUS, and the coincidence of that record with the obit of > > > Domhnall Ua Brolchain in the annals of Ulster at 1203, and of the Four > > > Masters at 1202, the same name in its Irish form, are sufficient, if > not > > > to satisfy the mind, at least to afford material for reasonable > > conjecture, > > > > > > as to the builder." > > > > > > > > > Surnames of Scotland > > > Black > > > > > > O'Brolachain > > > > > > Flaitbheartach Ua Brolchain was offered the abbacy of Colum-cille > > > in Iowa in 1164 (AFM, s.a.) but declined it. Domhnall Ua Brolchain, > > > prior of Derry, perhaps a relative of Flaithbheartach, became abbot > > > of Iona and was builder of the Bell Tower there, or at least of the > > > lower part of it. He died in 1203 (AU.). The mutilated inscription > > > in Lombardic letters on the southeast pier of the cathedral reads: > > > "Donaldus O'Brolchan fecit hoc opus." Abbot Donald came of a famous > > > family of masons of whom the earliest recorded is Maelbrighde Ua > > > Brolchan, styled prim saer Erann, i.e. 'chief mason of Ireland.' > > > (Adamnan, VC, p. 405). He died in 1029 (A.U. s.a.) The rectory of > > > S. John the Evangelist at Kildaltane, Islay, was vacant in 1549 > > > by the decease of Sir John Obrolchan (OPS, II, p. 269). Archibald > > > McBrolachin was one of the tenants in Iona, 1677, and Lauchlan duy > > > McBrolachan appears as merchant in Campbeltown, 1778 (Argyll). > > > The name has been Englished Bradley and Brodie (Brody), although > > > these names have no connection with it either in root or > > > meaning. > > > > > > What I found interesting about this was there were O'Brollaghans > > > (O'Brolchans) in Scotland long after known contact at Iona in the 13th > > > century yet > > > prior to the Irish exodus of the 1800s.. > > > > > > The O'Brollaghans were another Inishowen family, mostly connected to > the > > > church in Derry. The first two known Bishops of Derry were both > > > O'Brollaghans, 1107-1139. > > > > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Janine No Campbells have tested 111 markers yet, to my knowledge. So far there are 70 M222 full 111-marker results. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Janine Adele Sent: 19 July 2011 15:21 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] 111-Marker results Don't see the Campbell's at all this time??? Are there so few? Janine

Jim, Yes, the Gilmore name and the Morrison name are actually the same name but only spelled differently! At Family Tree I belong to the "Morrison,Gilmore" group. Doug On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 1:27 PM, <jim_wilson1@comcast.net> wrote: > > Is this also the origin of the name Gilmore? > Jim Wilson > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "tuulen" <tuulen@gmail.com> > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:51:24 PM > Subject: Re: [R-M222] New Tactics > > Allene, > > The Scottish Morrison name, Mac Ghille Mhoire, is a Catholic name, and is > an > Anglicization of a translation of Gaelic. The first Scottish (actually, the > Hebrides > were not part of Scotland at that time, but of Norway) Morrison was Ghille > Mhoire, > or Servant of (Saint) Mary, and all subsequent family generations became > Son of the Servant of (Saint) Mary, the Anglicization as Mary's Son => > Morrison. > > Their story goes that a Norwegian man, his Irish wife and their son were > shipwrecked but managed to get to the Isle of Lewis, and then stayed there. > But they were on a return trip from Norway at that time, and that > illustrates how > the Irish could have ventured to the Hebrides, too, from an even closer > distance. > > Doug > > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Allene Goforth <agoforth@moscow.com > >wrote: > > > Doug, > > > > I've been to South Uist, Benbecula, and North Uist, so I understand > > about the religious division between north and south. My > > g-g-g-grandfather Allan MacDonald was a Catholic from the Clanranald > > family on South Uist, most of whom converted to Presbyterianism. He > > emigrated to Cape Breton Island in 1823. I think there was more > > blurring along religious lines than I once thought. Also, my Highland > > M222 MacAdam lines (emigrated to PEI and Nova Scotia) are Catholics, but > > they have distant connections, probably predating the Reformation, to > > the Presbyterian McAdams of the Scottish Lowlands. > > > > Allene > > > > On 7/19/2011 8:35 AM, tuulen wrote: > > > Allene, > > > > > > Let me admit, that although the existing DNA evidence does not support > > the > > > rumor, > > > it is tempting to believe there could be an Irish genetic presence in > the > > > Hebrides. > > > For instance, the Outer Hebrides are not far from Ireland, and while > the > > big > > > northern > > > islands became predominantly Presbyterian following the Reformation, > the > > > smaller > > > southern islands remained Catholic, to this day. > > > > > > That is not evidence, but it is an interesting coincidence. > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Allene Goforth<agoforth@moscow.com > > >wrote: > > > > > >> Bernard, > > >> > > >> I have heard that story before, although the version I heard had the > > >> Morrisons of Harris in the Outer Hebrides as the descendants. The > > >> Benbecula U106, L48 McPhersons in my project who are matching a small > > >> group of Harris and Pabbay Morrisons are believed to be descendants of > > >> the MacMhuirich bards to the Lords of the Isles and later to > Clanranald. > > >> > > >> Yes, we had a neat little Highland Games picture of the clans for a > long > > >> time, especially in North American. DNA testing is blowing all that > out > > >> of the water, and what an interesting show it is turning out to be. > > >> Allene > > >> > > >> On 7/19/2011 6:40 AM, Bernard Morgan wrote: > > >>> Scottish Morrisons in the area of southern Inner Hebrides are Irish > > >> O'Muirgheasain, who were famed bards to the Hebridean lords (MacLeod& > > >> MacLean). > > >>> See "O'Muirgheasain Bardic Family" in Notes&' Queries of the Society > of > > >> West Highland and Island Historical Research, vi (1978), 3-7. > > >>> ps. Rogellus Obrolchan was secretary to Alexander Lord of the Isles > in > > >> 1426. > > >>> (My opinion is Scottish history became Anglo-centric and the Irish > sort > > >> only pure Irishness, so we left to rediscover the past world of > western > > >> seas.) > > >>> R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > >>> > > >>> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > >>> ------------------------------- > > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >> DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >> > > >> R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > >> > > >> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > >> ------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >> DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >> > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Iain, I am putting that book on my list. Thanks for mentioning it. What about the Lowlands? I know more about the Covenanters than I do about the Catholics (if any) that remained after the Reformation. Did they mostly leave the area after the Reformation? I'm trying to come up with some solid reasons to explain why our MacAdam lines were in the Arisaig area at the time of emigration in 1790--other than that romantic Battle of Bloody Bay/Edmund O'Brian legend. I don't think there were many of them there. On another topic, do you know of a good source of information on the Viking period in Galloway? Thanks, Allene

Scottish Morrisons in the area of southern Inner Hebrides are Irish O'Muirgheasain, who were famed bards to the Hebridean lords (MacLeod & MacLean). See "O'Muirgheasain Bardic Family" in Notes &' Queries of the Society of West Highland and Island Historical Research, vi (1978), 3-7. ps. Rogellus Obrolchan was secretary to Alexander Lord of the Isles in 1426. (My opinion is Scottish history became Anglo-centric and the Irish sort only pure Irishness, so we left to rediscover the past world of western seas.)

Jerry, Thank you! I have studied other languages, and know that such studies demand commitment. Learning another language, including all of its idiomatic ways, means having to learn how to see the world through new eyes, which is no small undertaking. Doug On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@att.net> wrote: > Hi Doug, > > You mentioned your interest in the language. > > Cumann Carad na Gaeilge / The Philo-Celtic Society provides free Irish > Gaelic > courses on the internet at all levels at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/philo-celticsociety/ > > We're on summer break now but many students are reviewing the last term's > material (February 1 to June 17) in preparation for the Fall term beginning > September 1. > > There is also the Scottish Gaelic group at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scottish_gaelic_group/ > > Le gach dea-ghui/ > > Best, > Jerry > > > > ________________________________ > From: tuulen <tuulen@gmail.com> > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tue, July 19, 2011 1:05:29 AM > Subject: Re: [R-M222] New Tactics > > John, > > As could be obvious by my earlier ignorance in regard to Irish Morrisons, > I know little of Irish history, but let me balance that by admitting that I > know > little of Scottish history, too. And only now am I beginning to explore > them. > > To make that just a bit easier, apparently surnames are not much more > than a thousand years old, and relatively few names are older than that. > > I do have an interest in languages, although I know nothing of Irish, but > seeing as my genetic lineage begins in northern Ulster, and seeing as > Co. Donegal is home to one of Ireland's gaeltacht regions, I could have > honest reason to study Irish, and maybe even learn some of it. > > Doug > > > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:52 PM, <Lochlan@aol.com> wrote: > > > In a message dated 7/18/2011 10:13:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > > tuulen@gmail.com writes: > > > > So, until further evidence appears, I can identify my genetic origin > with > > confidence, but the origin of the Morrison name remains less certain, > > likely > > Irish, but only likely. > > > > That was well done. I was struck by the references to Columcille in the > > sources I saw. His church in the city of Derry had numerous > connections > > with Iona in Scotland. In particular I have some data showing > connections > > between another Inishowen family, the O'Brollaghans, and Iona. > > > > This doesn't have anything to do with O'Morrisons but is interesting (to > me > > at least). > > > > The O Brolchain Family > > Notes from Reeves "Life of St. Columba," by Adamnan > > > > XLVII - Flaithbertach Coarb 1150-1175. [Introduction, p. clxxx] > > > > Surnamed Ua Brolchain. The family of Ua Brolchain were descended > > from Suibhne Meann, who wqas king of Ireland in 615, and belonged > > to the Cinel Feradhaich, a clan so called from Feradhach, grandfather > > of that Suibhne Meann, and fourth in descent from Eoghan, the founder > > of the Cinel-Eoghain race. The Cinel Feradhiach are now territorially > > represented by the barony of Clogher, in the south of the county of > > Tryone. The first of the O'Brolchan family who is mentioned in the > > Annals was Maelbrighde Ua Brolchan, styled prim saer Erren ["chief mason > > of Ireland"- Od Vers],, whose obit is entered in the ann. Ult. at 1029. > > >From him probably the masonic art of the family was derived, which was > > cultivated by Flaherty, and practiced by Donnell, with such success. > > The next was Maeliosa, the lector whose obit is entered above at 1086. > > He spent a part of his early life at Both-chonais in Inishowen, in the > > neighbourhood of which some of his writings were preserved in Colgan's > > time; and afterwards he founded a church seemingly at Lismore, called > > the derteac Maeiliosa, "Oratory of Maeliosa," which was burned in 1116. > > He died on the 16th of January, justly celebrated for his learning > > (Colgan, Acta SS. p. 108). His son, Aedh, succeeded him in the calling > > of professor, and died in 1095. Two years afterwards a son of > Maelbrighde, > > surnamed Mac-an-tsaeir, who was bishop of Kildare, died. Maelcolaim Ua > > Brolchain, bishop of Armagh, died in 1122; and Maelbrighde Ua Brolchain, > > also bishop of Armagh, died, Jan. 29, 1139. The latter was probably > > father of the coarb Flaithbertach, whom the Annals of Ulster, aqt 1164, > > called Flaithbertach mac in epsuic hUi Brolcain, "Flaithbertach, son of > > the bishp Ua Brolchan," a lineage by no means in accordance with the > > delicacy of the Four Masters, and which, when copying the entry, they > > divest of its objectional character, in simply calling him Flaithbertach > > Ua Brolchain. Domhnall Ua Brolchain was prior of Derry, and died Apr. > 27, > > 1202. His name is inscribed on one of the capitals in the cathedral of > > Hy, in the form Donaldus Obrolcan (vid. 1202, App. III). Finn Ua > Brolchan > > was steward of O'Donnell in 1213; and Flann Ua Brolchain was coarb of > > Columcille in 1219. In 1548 died Sir John Obrolchan, rector of > Kildalton, > > in Islay (Orig. Paroch. vol. ii. p 269) The name was afterwards writtten > > O'Brollaghan, and is now corrupted, in Ulster, to Bradley. Through > > the influence of Gilla-mac-Liag of Gelasius, the abbot of Armagh, who > > had himself been previously abbbot of Derry (an. 1137) , Flaithbertach > > Ua Brolchain was raised to the dignity of bishop in 1158, as is thus > > recorded by the Four Masters: "A Synod of the clergy of Ireland was > > convened at Bri-mic-Taidhg, in Meath, where there were present 25 > bishops, > > with the Legate of the coarb of Peter, to ordain rules and good morals. > > It was on this occasion that the clergy of Ireland, with the coarb of > > Patrick, ordered a chair, like every other bishop's, for the coarb of > > Columcille, Flaithbertach Ua Brolchain, and the arch-abbacy of the > > churches of Ireland in general." He was a zealous advancer of the > > welfare of Derry, and during his incumbency many important additions > > were made to its ecclesiastical buildings; to precure funds for which, > > the abbot had, during the years 1150, 1151, 1153, 1161, visited, and > > obtained contributions from various territories in Ulster and Ossory. > > After a long life spent in the enregetic discharge of his duties, he > > died in 1175, at which year his obit is thus recorded by the Four > > Masters: "Flaithbertach Ua Brolchain, coarb of Columcille, a tower > > of wisdom and hospitality, a man on whom, on account of his goodness > > and wisdom, the clergy of Ireland had bestowed a bishop's chair, and > > to whom the abbacy of Hy (comhorbus Uae) had been offered (an. 1164), > > died in righteousness, after exemplary sickness, in the Duibhregles > > of Columcille; and Gilla-mac-Liag Ua Branain was appointed to his > > place in the abbacy." > > > > Donal O Brolchain [1202] > > > > "The unusual record on the capital of the tower column, DONALDUS > OBROLOHAN > > FECIT HOC OPUS, and the coincidence of that record with the obit of > > Domhnall Ua Brolchain in the annals of Ulster at 1203, and of the Four > > Masters at 1202, the same name in its Irish form, are sufficient, if not > > to satisfy the mind, at least to afford material for reasonable > conjecture, > > > > as to the builder." > > > > > > Surnames of Scotland > > Black > > > > O'Brolachain > > > > Flaitbheartach Ua Brolchain was offered the abbacy of Colum-cille > > in Iowa in 1164 (AFM, s.a.) but declined it. Domhnall Ua Brolchain, > > prior of Derry, perhaps a relative of Flaithbheartach, became abbot > > of Iona and was builder of the Bell Tower there, or at least of the > > lower part of it. He died in 1203 (AU.). The mutilated inscription > > in Lombardic letters on the southeast pier of the cathedral reads: > > "Donaldus O'Brolchan fecit hoc opus." Abbot Donald came of a famous > > family of masons of whom the earliest recorded is Maelbrighde Ua > > Brolchan, styled prim saer Erann, i.e. 'chief mason of Ireland.' > > (Adamnan, VC, p. 405). He died in 1029 (A.U. s.a.) The rectory of > > S. John the Evangelist at Kildaltane, Islay, was vacant in 1549 > > by the decease of Sir John Obrolchan (OPS, II, p. 269). Archibald > > McBrolachin was one of the tenants in Iona, 1677, and Lauchlan duy > > McBrolachan appears as merchant in Campbeltown, 1778 (Argyll). > > The name has been Englished Bradley and Brodie (Brody), although > > these names have no connection with it either in root or > > meaning. > > > > What I found interesting about this was there were O'Brollaghans > > (O'Brolchans) in Scotland long after known contact at Iona in the 13th > > century yet > > prior to the Irish exodus of the 1800s.. > > > > The O'Brollaghans were another Inishowen family, mostly connected to the > > church in Derry. The first two known Bishops of Derry were both > > O'Brollaghans, 1107-1139. > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Allene, The Scottish Morrison name, Mac Ghille Mhoire, is a Catholic name, and is an Anglicization of a translation of Gaelic. The first Scottish (actually, the Hebrides were not part of Scotland at that time, but of Norway) Morrison was Ghille Mhoire, or Servant of (Saint) Mary, and all subsequent family generations became Son of the Servant of (Saint) Mary, the Anglicization as Mary's Son => Morrison. Their story goes that a Norwegian man, his Irish wife and their son were shipwrecked but managed to get to the Isle of Lewis, and then stayed there. But they were on a return trip from Norway at that time, and that illustrates how the Irish could have ventured to the Hebrides, too, from an even closer distance. Doug On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Allene Goforth <agoforth@moscow.com>wrote: > Doug, > > I've been to South Uist, Benbecula, and North Uist, so I understand > about the religious division between north and south. My > g-g-g-grandfather Allan MacDonald was a Catholic from the Clanranald > family on South Uist, most of whom converted to Presbyterianism. He > emigrated to Cape Breton Island in 1823. I think there was more > blurring along religious lines than I once thought. Also, my Highland > M222 MacAdam lines (emigrated to PEI and Nova Scotia) are Catholics, but > they have distant connections, probably predating the Reformation, to > the Presbyterian McAdams of the Scottish Lowlands. > > Allene > > On 7/19/2011 8:35 AM, tuulen wrote: > > Allene, > > > > Let me admit, that although the existing DNA evidence does not support > the > > rumor, > > it is tempting to believe there could be an Irish genetic presence in the > > Hebrides. > > For instance, the Outer Hebrides are not far from Ireland, and while the > big > > northern > > islands became predominantly Presbyterian following the Reformation, the > > smaller > > southern islands remained Catholic, to this day. > > > > That is not evidence, but it is an interesting coincidence. > > > > Doug > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Allene Goforth<agoforth@moscow.com > >wrote: > > > >> Bernard, > >> > >> I have heard that story before, although the version I heard had the > >> Morrisons of Harris in the Outer Hebrides as the descendants. The > >> Benbecula U106, L48 McPhersons in my project who are matching a small > >> group of Harris and Pabbay Morrisons are believed to be descendants of > >> the MacMhuirich bards to the Lords of the Isles and later to Clanranald. > >> > >> Yes, we had a neat little Highland Games picture of the clans for a long > >> time, especially in North American. DNA testing is blowing all that out > >> of the water, and what an interesting show it is turning out to be. > >> Allene > >> > >> On 7/19/2011 6:40 AM, Bernard Morgan wrote: > >>> Scottish Morrisons in the area of southern Inner Hebrides are Irish > >> O'Muirgheasain, who were famed bards to the Hebridean lords (MacLeod& > >> MacLean). > >>> See "O'Muirgheasain Bardic Family" in Notes&' Queries of the Society of > >> West Highland and Island Historical Research, vi (1978), 3-7. > >>> ps. Rogellus Obrolchan was secretary to Alexander Lord of the Isles in > >> 1426. > >>> (My opinion is Scottish history became Anglo-centric and the Irish sort > >> only pure Irishness, so we left to rediscover the past world of western > >> seas.) > >>> R1b1c7 Research and Links: > >>> > >>> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> R1b1c7 Research and Links: > >> > >> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Fa/ilte romhat, a Dhubhghlais. / You're welcome, Doug. ________________________________ From: tuulen <tuulen@gmail.com> To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Sent: Tue, July 19, 2011 1:19:30 PM Subject: Re: [R-M222] free Irish Gaelic and Scottish Gaelic on-line courses Jerry, Thank you! I have studied other languages, and know that such studies demand commitment. Learning another language, including all of its idiomatic ways, means having to learn how to see the world through new eyes, which is no small undertaking. Doug On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@att.net> wrote: > Hi Doug, > > You mentioned your interest in the language. > > Cumann Carad na Gaeilge / The Philo-Celtic Society provides free Irish > Gaelic > courses on the internet at all levels at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/philo-celticsociety/ > > We're on summer break now but many students are reviewing the last term's > material (February 1 to June 17) in preparation for the Fall term beginning > September 1. > > There is also the Scottish Gaelic group at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scottish_gaelic_group/ > > Le gach dea-ghui/ > > Best, > Jerry > > > > ________________________________ > From: tuulen <tuulen@gmail.com> > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tue, July 19, 2011 1:05:29 AM > Subject: Re: [R-M222] New Tactics > > John, > > As could be obvious by my earlier ignorance in regard to Irish Morrisons, > I know little of Irish history, but let me balance that by admitting that I > know > little of Scottish history, too. And only now am I beginning to explore > them. > > To make that just a bit easier, apparently surnames are not much more > than a thousand years old, and relatively few names are older than that. > > I do have an interest in languages, although I know nothing of Irish, but > seeing as my genetic lineage begins in northern Ulster, and seeing as > Co. Donegal is home to one of Ireland's gaeltacht regions, I could have > honest reason to study Irish, and maybe even learn some of it. > > Doug > > > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:52 PM, <Lochlan@aol.com> wrote: > > > In a message dated 7/18/2011 10:13:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > > tuulen@gmail.com writes: > > > > So, until further evidence appears, I can identify my genetic origin > with > > confidence, but the origin of the Morrison name remains less certain, > > likely > > Irish, but only likely. > > > > That was well done. I was struck by the references to Columcille in the > > sources I saw. His church in the city of Derry had numerous > connections > > with Iona in Scotland. In particular I have some data showing > connections > > between another Inishowen family, the O'Brollaghans, and Iona. > > > > This doesn't have anything to do with O'Morrisons but is interesting (to > me > > at least). > > > > The O Brolchain Family > > Notes from Reeves "Life of St. Columba," by Adamnan > > > > XLVII - Flaithbertach Coarb 1150-1175. [Introduction, p. clxxx] > > > > Surnamed Ua Brolchain. The family of Ua Brolchain were descended > > from Suibhne Meann, who wqas king of Ireland in 615, and belonged > > to the Cinel Feradhaich, a clan so called from Feradhach, grandfather > > of that Suibhne Meann, and fourth in descent from Eoghan, the founder > > of the Cinel-Eoghain race. The Cinel Feradhiach are now territorially > > represented by the barony of Clogher, in the south of the county of > > Tryone. The first of the O'Brolchan family who is mentioned in the > > Annals was Maelbrighde Ua Brolchan, styled prim saer Erren ["chief mason > > of Ireland"- Od Vers],, whose obit is entered in the ann. Ult. at 1029. > > >From him probably the masonic art of the family was derived, which was > > cultivated by Flaherty, and practiced by Donnell, with such success. > > The next was Maeliosa, the lector whose obit is entered above at 1086. > > He spent a part of his early life at Both-chonais in Inishowen, in the > > neighbourhood of which some of his writings were preserved in Colgan's > > time; and afterwards he founded a church seemingly at Lismore, called > > the derteac Maeiliosa, "Oratory of Maeliosa," which was burned in 1116. > > He died on the 16th of January, justly celebrated for his learning > > (Colgan, Acta SS. p. 108). His son, Aedh, succeeded him in the calling > > of professor, and died in 1095. Two years afterwards a son of > Maelbrighde, > > surnamed Mac-an-tsaeir, who was bishop of Kildare, died. Maelcolaim Ua > > Brolchain, bishop of Armagh, died in 1122; and Maelbrighde Ua Brolchain, > > also bishop of Armagh, died, Jan. 29, 1139. The latter was probably > > father of the coarb Flaithbertach, whom the Annals of Ulster, aqt 1164, > > called Flaithbertach mac in epsuic hUi Brolcain, "Flaithbertach, son of > > the bishp Ua Brolchan," a lineage by no means in accordance with the > > delicacy of the Four Masters, and which, when copying the entry, they > > divest of its objectional character, in simply calling him Flaithbertach > > Ua Brolchain. Domhnall Ua Brolchain was prior of Derry, and died Apr. > 27, > > 1202. His name is inscribed on one of the capitals in the cathedral of > > Hy, in the form Donaldus Obrolcan (vid. 1202, App. III). Finn Ua > Brolchan > > was steward of O'Donnell in 1213; and Flann Ua Brolchain was coarb of > > Columcille in 1219. In 1548 died Sir John Obrolchan, rector of > Kildalton, > > in Islay (Orig. Paroch. vol. ii. p 269) The name was afterwards writtten > > O'Brollaghan, and is now corrupted, in Ulster, to Bradley. Through > > the influence of Gilla-mac-Liag of Gelasius, the abbot of Armagh, who > > had himself been previously abbbot of Derry (an. 1137) , Flaithbertach > > Ua Brolchain was raised to the dignity of bishop in 1158, as is thus > > recorded by the Four Masters: "A Synod of the clergy of Ireland was > > convened at Bri-mic-Taidhg, in Meath, where there were present 25 > bishops, > > with the Legate of the coarb of Peter, to ordain rules and good morals. > > It was on this occasion that the clergy of Ireland, with the coarb of > > Patrick, ordered a chair, like every other bishop's, for the coarb of > > Columcille, Flaithbertach Ua Brolchain, and the arch-abbacy of the > > churches of Ireland in general." He was a zealous advancer of the > > welfare of Derry, and during his incumbency many important additions > > were made to its ecclesiastical buildings; to precure funds for which, > > the abbot had, during the years 1150, 1151, 1153, 1161, visited, and > > obtained contributions from various territories in Ulster and Ossory. > > After a long life spent in the enregetic discharge of his duties, he > > died in 1175, at which year his obit is thus recorded by the Four > > Masters: "Flaithbertach Ua Brolchain, coarb of Columcille, a tower > > of wisdom and hospitality, a man on whom, on account of his goodness > > and wisdom, the clergy of Ireland had bestowed a bishop's chair, and > > to whom the abbacy of Hy (comhorbus Uae) had been offered (an. 1164), > > died in righteousness, after exemplary sickness, in the Duibhregles > > of Columcille; and Gilla-mac-Liag Ua Branain was appointed to his > > place in the abbacy." > > > > Donal O Brolchain [1202] > > > > "The unusual record on the capital of the tower column, DONALDUS > OBROLOHAN > > FECIT HOC OPUS, and the coincidence of that record with the obit of > > Domhnall Ua Brolchain in the annals of Ulster at 1203, and of the Four > > Masters at 1202, the same name in its Irish form, are sufficient, if not > > to satisfy the mind, at least to afford material for reasonable > conjecture, > > > > as to the builder." > > > > > > Surnames of Scotland > > Black > > > > O'Brolachain > > > > Flaitbheartach Ua Brolchain was offered the abbacy of Colum-cille > > in Iowa in 1164 (AFM, s.a.) but declined it. Domhnall Ua Brolchain, > > prior of Derry, perhaps a relative of Flaithbheartach, became abbot > > of Iona and was builder of the Bell Tower there, or at least of the > > lower part of it. He died in 1203 (AU.). The mutilated inscription > > in Lombardic letters on the southeast pier of the cathedral reads: > > "Donaldus O'Brolchan fecit hoc opus." Abbot Donald came of a famous > > family of masons of whom the earliest recorded is Maelbrighde Ua > > Brolchan, styled prim saer Erann, i.e. 'chief mason of Ireland.' > > (Adamnan, VC, p. 405). He died in 1029 (A.U. s.a.) The rectory of > > S. John the Evangelist at Kildaltane, Islay, was vacant in 1549 > > by the decease of Sir John Obrolchan (OPS, II, p. 269). Archibald > > McBrolachin was one of the tenants in Iona, 1677, and Lauchlan duy > > McBrolachan appears as merchant in Campbeltown, 1778 (Argyll). > > The name has been Englished Bradley and Brodie (Brody), although > > these names have no connection with it either in root or > > meaning. > > > > What I found interesting about this was there were O'Brollaghans > > (O'Brolchans) in Scotland long after known contact at Iona in the 13th > > century yet > > prior to the Irish exodus of the 1800s.. > > > > The O'Brollaghans were another Inishowen family, mostly connected to the > > church in Derry. The first two known Bishops of Derry were both > > O'Brollaghans, 1107-1139. > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Allene, About the only thing working in my favor is that nobody ever told me any tall tales or wild stories about my family history, so I had little in the way of expectations as I began my research, and I am open to any developments. Doug On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Allene Goforth <agoforth@moscow.com>wrote: > Bernard and Doug, > > We had a Morrison on Benbecula tested recently to see if he'd match the > Benbecula McPhersons, but he turned out to be a Viking, so may be from > the Morrisons who trace their family to the Norwegian man and the Irish > woman. > > I am far from an expert on either Irish or Scottish history, but I think > it is quite possible that the O'Muirghesians are like other clans--more > diverse than we think. > > Allene > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >