Go raibh maith agat, a Iain. / Thank you, Iain. I think you're right. As far as I know de Bhulbh was a native speaker. But the amazing thing I remember from reading Woulfe's introduction to his book is that he collected much or most of his information, not just surnames but also clans and tribes, directly ó bhéalaibh na ndaoine / from the mouths of the people - aged refugees of the Great Hunger who roughly 60 years later he found as he was doing his rounds as a priest in poorhouses and hospitals in Scotland and England. So, my understanding is that Woulfe had access to the oral tradition, strong and extremely accurate in Irish-speaking areas up until the Famine, while MacLysaght had access to almost all the manuscripts we have today. So I usually go on the assumption that MacLysaght's manuscripts correct the rare mistakes which crept into the béaloideas / oral tradition. But, from what I can tell, however, MacLysaght did not have ready access to Leabhar na nGenelach (The Book of Genealogies) by Dubhaltach Mac Fhirbhisigh. He could only get at parts of it through O'Donovan's TRIBES AND CUSTOMS OF HY MANY and TRIBES AND CUSTOMS OF HY FIACHRACH. After waiting for 350 years, Mac Fhirbhisigh's great work was finally published by De Búrca Books in 2003. So, when Woulfe and MacLysaght disagree on a family origin, I go to Mac Fhirbhisigh to see who's right. Sin iad mo smaointe ar aon chuma. Go raibh siad cabhrach. / Those are my thoughts, anyway. Hope they're helpful. Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, Jerry --- On Tue, 8/23/11, Iain Kennedy <ikennedy_msdn2@hotmail.com> wrote: > From: Iain Kennedy <ikennedy_msdn2@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2011, 2:30 AM > > > An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, > but excellent nevertheless. > > Indeed, but frustratingly where he does 'correct' he gives > no explanation or source as to why Woulfe was wrong, > although in his introduction he makes much of the earlier > lack of availability of Middle Irish dictionaries such as > the massive RIA work. So what are to make of it when they > disagree? Was his command of modern Irish better (he appears > to only have been introduced to it in his college years > whereas I believe Woulfe was a native speaker from the > start) and how significant is the middle Irish issue? I > would be interested in your thoughts. > Iain > > > > > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:42:38 -0700 > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe > > > > Bob a chara, > > > > MacLysaght is still under copyright buy Sloinnte > Gaedheal Is Gall (Surnames of the Gaeil and Gaill) by an > t-Athair Pádraig de Bhulbh (Fr. Patrick Woulfe) is > available at: > > > > http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php > > > > An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, > but excellent nevertheless. > > > > Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, > > Jerry > > > > Treibheanna Éireannacha > > www.irishtribes.com > > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/22/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > wrote: > > > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí > Néill? > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 12:38 PM > > > > > > Thank you, Gerry. Is there any way to get > McLysacht's read > > > on names other than to buy the book? I had > no  luck on > > > the Internet. Regards, Bob > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > President&CEO > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > Partners > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > >    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:17:21 -0700 > > > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222]    Cenél > Maine - > > > truly Uí Néill? > > > > > > > > Bob a chara, > > > > > > > > Someone may have answered this already but > Quinn is > > > short for X Cuinn / X of Conn.  Cuinn is the > genitive > > > of Conn, a grammatical way to say 'of > Conn'.  Mac Cuinn > > > would be Son of Conn.  Ó Cuinn would be > Grandson of > > > Conn.  But the 'of' part is in Cuinn, not in > Mac or > > > Ó.  > > > > > > > > Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, > > > > Jerry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - > truly Uí > > > Néill? > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 2:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > Would like to know his opinion. > Everyone else > > > thinks it is > > > > > Son of Conn. > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay > Street > > > Partners > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's > Roundtable > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > >    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:52:05 > +0100 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine > - truly > > > Uí > > > > > Néill? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you or anyone else know what > McLysacht > > > gives for > > > > > the derivation of the > > > > > > surname Quinn? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > > > On Behalf Of Bob Quinn > > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 16:29 > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine > - truly > > > Uí > > > > > Néill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 15, 12,12, on DYS > 19,439,442. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical > Consultants > > > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street > Investors/Bay Street > > > Partners > > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's > Roundtable > > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > >    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > From: raaq@live.com > > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 > 10:06:30 -0400 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél > Maine - > > > truly Uí > > > > > Néill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in any > resource for > > > Haplotypes of > > > > > the early Celts, so I'll > > > > > > be watching for feedback. I am > included in > > > R-M222 and > > > > > my Quinns/Murphys are > > > > > > from Armagh. The Davidski studies > indicate a > > > higher > > > > > Scandinavain component > > > > > > for me than for most Irish. Does > this mean > > > anything to > > > > > anybody? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical > Consultants > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street > Investors/Bay > > > Street > > > > > Partners > > > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI > Manufacturer's > > > Roundtable > > > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > >    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 > 09:48:52 > > > +0100 > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] > Cenél Maine > > > - truly > > > > > Uí Néill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bernard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think the > MagCargamni is a > > > candidate > > > > > for the origins of > > > > > > McHarg/Mac > > > > > > > > Giolla Chairge? Also, > can you > > > point me to > > > > > his haplotype? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found an > interesting match > > > between > > > > > Ewing and a Quinn, with matches > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > DYS 19,439,442 = > 15,13,11. I don't > > > think the > > > > > Quinn is from O'Quin > > > > > > though. I > > > > > > > > think he's from > Mackquein, which > > > may be from > > > > > McEwen of Ottir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > > > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > > > > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 > 07:04 > > > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7 > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] > Cenél Maine > > > - truly > > > > > Uí Néill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Of course I have a > vested interest > > > in > > > > > understanding Cenel Maine, however > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > hadn't taken the step > to > > > investigate the > > > > > claim against Cenel Maine. > > > > > > Brynes’s > > > > > > > > argument - that Cenel > Maine has > > > conflicting > > > > > pedigree and that closeness > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > Ui Maine means that they > are Ui > > > Maine Fails. > > > > > For Dobbs shows that "Cenel > > > > > > > > Maine" originates in a > seperate > > > location > > > > > distant from Ui Maine. > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  R1b1c7 Research > and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the > list, > > > please send an > > > > > email to > > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body > of the > > > message > > > > > > >      > > > > >          > > > > >        >     > > > > >    > > > > > > >  R1b1c7 Research and > Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, > please > > > send an > > > > > email to > > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body > of the > > > message > > > > > >      > > > > >          > > > > >        >     > > > > >    > > > > > >  R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, > please send an > > > email to > > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body > of the > > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, > please send an > > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in > > > the > > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > >      > > > > >          > > > > >        >     > > > > >    > > > > >  R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please > send an > > > email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in > > > the > > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > >  R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the > > > subject and the body of the message > > >      > > >          > > >            > > >    > > >  R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > >  R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >     >          >            >   > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >

> An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, but excellent nevertheless. Indeed, but frustratingly where he does 'correct' he gives no explanation or source as to why Woulfe was wrong, although in his introduction he makes much of the earlier lack of availability of Middle Irish dictionaries such as the massive RIA work. So what are to make of it when they disagree? Was his command of modern Irish better (he appears to only have been introduced to it in his college years whereas I believe Woulfe was a native speaker from the start) and how significant is the middle Irish issue? I would be interested in your thoughts. Iain > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:42:38 -0700 > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe > > Bob a chara, > > MacLysaght is still under copyright buy Sloinnte Gaedheal Is Gall (Surnames of the Gaeil and Gaill) by an t-Athair Pádraig de Bhulbh (Fr. Patrick Woulfe) is available at: > > http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php > > An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, but excellent nevertheless. > > Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, > Jerry > > Treibheanna Éireannacha > www.irishtribes.com > > > --- On Mon, 8/22/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> wrote: > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí Néill? > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 12:38 PM > > > > Thank you, Gerry. Is there any way to get McLysacht's read > > on names other than to buy the book? I had no luck on > > the Internet. Regards, Bob > > > > Bob Quinn > > President&CEO > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > 27 Langton Lane > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > T:610-331-4920 > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:17:21 -0700 > > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - > > truly Uí Néill? > > > > > > Bob a chara, > > > > > > Someone may have answered this already but Quinn is > > short for X Cuinn / X of Conn. Cuinn is the genitive > > of Conn, a grammatical way to say 'of Conn'. Mac Cuinn > > would be Son of Conn. Ó Cuinn would be Grandson of > > Conn. But the 'of' part is in Cuinn, not in Mac or > > Ó. > > > > > > Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, > > > Jerry > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí > > Néill? > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 2:23 PM > > > > > > > > Would like to know his opinion. Everyone else > > thinks it is > > > > Son of Conn. > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > President&CEO > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > > Partners > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:52:05 +0100 > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly > > Uí > > > > Néill? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Bob > > > > > > > > > > Do you or anyone else know what McLysacht > > gives for > > > > the derivation of the > > > > > surname Quinn? > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Bob Quinn > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 16:29 > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly > > Uí > > > > Néill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 15, 12,12, on DYS 19,439,442. > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > > Partners > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: raaq@live.com > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:06:30 -0400 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - > > truly Uí > > > > Néill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in any resource for > > Haplotypes of > > > > the early Celts, so I'll > > > > > be watching for feedback. I am included in > > R-M222 and > > > > my Quinns/Murphys are > > > > > from Armagh. The Davidski studies indicate a > > higher > > > > Scandinavain component > > > > > for me than for most Irish. Does this mean > > anything to > > > > anybody? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay > > Street > > > > Partners > > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's > > Roundtable > > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:48:52 > > +0100 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine > > - truly > > > > Uí Néill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bernard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think the MagCargamni is a > > candidate > > > > for the origins of > > > > > McHarg/Mac > > > > > > > Giolla Chairge? Also, can you > > point me to > > > > his haplotype? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found an interesting match > > between > > > > Ewing and a Quinn, with matches > > > > > at > > > > > > > DYS 19,439,442 = 15,13,11. I don't > > think the > > > > Quinn is from O'Quin > > > > > though. I > > > > > > > think he's from Mackquein, which > > may be from > > > > McEwen of Ottir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > > > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 07:04 > > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine > > - truly > > > > Uí Néill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course I have a vested interest > > in > > > > understanding Cenel Maine, however > > > > > I > > > > > > > hadn't taken the step to > > investigate the > > > > claim against Cenel Maine. > > > > > Brynes’s > > > > > > > argument - that Cenel Maine has > > conflicting > > > > pedigree and that closeness > > > > > to > > > > > > > Ui Maine means that they are Ui > > Maine Fails. > > > > For Dobbs shows that "Cenel > > > > > > > Maine" originates in a seperate > > location > > > > distant from Ui Maine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, > > please send an > > > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please > > send an > > > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > the > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > > email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > the > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > > subject and the body of the message > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have no expert knowledge of any of this. I only know what I read and sometimes pass things along that may be of interest to some. I am open to the idea that M222 is a La Tène marker as Jean Manco proposes: http://www.buildinghistory.org/distantpast/celtictribes.shtml, and Dál Fiatach is the first stop in Ireland from northern Scotland. My main recollection of both of the items quoted below (about the Ó hEochaidh and Mac an Ultaigh) is from the book entitled "An historical account of the diocese of Down and Connor, ancient and modern" by the Rev. James O'Laverty, 1878. The old diocese are basically the old local kingdom, from what I understand. The diocese of Down was Dál Fiatach. The full book is here as a PDF: http://books.google.com/books/about/An_historical_account_of_the_diocese_of. html?id=QukHAAAAQAAJ The Ó hEochaidh quote is online at: http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/james-olaverty/an-historical-account-o f-the-diocese-of-down-and-connor-ancient-and-modern-vol-val/page-5-an-histor ical-account-of-the-diocese-of-down-and-connor-ancient-and-modern-vol-val.sh tml It is 7/8 of the page down and the OCR is, as always, bad. " I O-h-Bochaidh is now Haughey and Hoey : they shared the misfortunes of their relatives the Donlevys, and are more nnmeroiis in the other counties of Ulster than in Down. Many of them are in Donegal. " The Mac an Ultaigh quote is online at the same page, one paragraph above. t O'Donlevy or MacDonlevy was of the same family as the O'Heochadhas ; the.v belonged to the Dal-Fiatacli race and long possessed the sovereignty of Uladh. After the English invasion, and perhaps owing to the rise of the Magenisses, they were driven out of County Down. Some of them went to Tirconuell where they becania physicians to the O'Donnells, they are still numerous in Donegal, where their name is frequently changed into Ultnch (Ulidian). Some of them iiassed into Scotland where they were named Dunlief and Dunlap and even Livingston. In addition to Ultach (Ulidian) the family is named Mac.Vnulty (Mac-an-Ultaicli), Kinulty an Nulty. Gerry Hoy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lochlan@aol.com Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 8:09 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenel Conaill And the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 - Dál Fiatach These notes are by O'Donovan. I don't know where the idea that they migrated to Donegal came from. There's a writeup of the Dunlevys in Donegal in Donegal History and Society. It states the first Dunlevy on record in Donegal is Muirchetach mac an Ultaigh sl. 1281 along with an O Domhnall. Then it mentions a physician Muiiris mac Poil Ultagh who d. 1395, chief physician of the Cenel Conaill. Somewhere, I can't remember where, I read a somewhat critical view of this descent. Mac an Ultaigh just means son of the Ulster man. The surname is not traced in the O'Clery genealogies and the writer speculated that the Utlaghs of Donegal simply adopted the idea that their Ulster ancestors were the O'Donlevys of east Ulster (KIngs thereof). John R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If Conal Gulban & Eogain were Cruithni - then explain the 3rd entry in the Chronicle of Ireland under year 563: "The Battle of Moin Daire Lothair was won by the Ui Neill of the North against the Cruithni, in which seven kings of the Cruithnig fell including Aed Brecc." Entry 2 was "The voyage of Colum Cille to the island of Iona in his forty-second year of his life" Colum Cille and Adomnan were of the Cenel Conaill and not the Cruithni. Adomnan and Columba are prominent in the early texts of the Cenel Conaill and reference to ColumCille as ancestor of Conal Gulban. Wikipedia - There is no direct evidence for the identity of the Chronicle's successive authors, but scholars are confident that it was produced by annalists working in churches and monasteries and was intended for an ecclesiastical audience. The version of the Chronicle that annalists and chroniclers were working from was written in different places at different times; the earliest evidence for one of its authors places it in Iona sometime after 563, continuing until about 642. Around 639, another chronicle of uncertain origin was begun elsewhere and merged with the Iona chronicle in the second half of the 7th century. -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dna-r1b1c7-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 8:00 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 271 Today's Topics: 1. Re: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 269 (Robert Reid) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 19:59:50 -0400 From: "Robert Reid" <rreid002@insight.rr.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 269 To: <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <000101cc6127$949e1a70$bdda4f50$@insight.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cenel Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms 500 - 800, p 145: "In addition, two possibly earlier population groups have also been mentioned: The Windukatii in the Dunfanaghy area who may have been the precursors of the Cenel Duach kingdom of Goll and Irgoo." Page 101 "The name Dunfanaghy is usually said to be an anglicisation of Dun Fionnachaidh, the fort of the white field (Mac Giolla Easpaig 1995, 161), but Alan Mac an Bhaird has argued that it derives from a very early Proto-Irish form Dunon Windukation 'the fort of the Windukatii'. The latter, he argues, is a tribal name that appears as Ouenniknioi in Ptolemy's material for a map of these islands, compiled in the first century AD" No mention of the Venicones or 'Ven' related tribes in Lacey's book. -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dna-r1b1c7-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 7:05 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 269 Today's Topics: 1. Re: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 (Robert Reid) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 19:04:45 -0400 From: "Robert Reid" <rreid002@insight.rr.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 To: <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <000101cc611f$e257b120$a7071360$@insight.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Review of Lacey's book CEN?L CONAILL AND THE DONEGAL KINGDOMS, AD 500 ? 800 by Tomas ),Canann. Cen?l Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 Brian Lacey CEN?L CONAILL AND THE DONEGAL KINGDOMS, AD 500 ? 800. Four Courts Press, Dublin, 2006. Pp 351. Price 45 Euro. ISBN 978-1-85182-978-1. "Lacey expertly deconstructs this fable, as well. Based on detailed analysis of maternal ancestries, place names, hagiography, archaeology, and saints? genealogies, he concludes that Cen?l Conaill were more likely a Cruithin people affiliated with the U? Echach Coba and, perhaps, the Conaille Muirtheimme. His position is well-reasoned, but knotty problems occasioned by vague and contradictory sources render his conclusion necessarily speculative." Paragraph 3 Tom?s G. ? Canann. Perched high atop a narrow isthmus, the Grian?n Ailig strategically guards the great northern waterways of Lough Foyle and Lough Swilly. On a clear day, it commands a panoramic view in all directions; in particular, the southwestern prospect extends more than 35 miles, clean through the famed Bernas M?r gap in the Blue Stack Mountains, to the cobalt waters of Donegal Bay. This massive stone cashel may have been built shortly after the pivotal battle of Cl?itech in 789, both to create a more impressive caput for Cen?l nE?gain and to celebrate its decisive victory over archrival Cen?l Conaill for supremacy of the territory known today as County Donegal. How the emerging kingdom of Ailech came to be consolidated by the end of the eighth century is the subject of an important new book by Dr Brian Lacey, pioneering director of the Donegal Archaeological Survey, noted Columban scholar, and distinguished historian of medieval Ulster. Why this story matters in the larger ?national? picture is explained at the outset: the first two, perhaps the first three, genuinely historical figures described as ?king of Ireland? in early texts came from Cen?l Conaill in Donegal. That same people gave birth to Colum Cille and Adomn?n, the most prominent Irish clerics of the sixth and seventh centuries. Their monastery at Iona in the Inner Hebrides, staffed mainly by monks from Donegal, quickly became a place of enormous cultural influence. In fact, Lacey perceptively notes, compilation of the Iona Chronicle seems to have initiated the practice of recording annals, and thus the Donegal community in spiritual exile there could justly be said to have invented the writing of Irish history. The origin of early medieval Donegal, as it was understood for many centuries, represented a carefully-built construct of two distinct phases in Irish historiography. The earlier stratum began in the eighth century when historians promoted the political supremacy of the U? N?ill (particularly Cen?l nE?gain) in tandem with the ecclesiastical primacy of Armagh. Lacey identifies the likely sponsors of this ambitious intellectual and propaganda enterprise as ?ed All?n (d. 743), Cen?l nE?gain king of Tara, and Congus (d. 750), bishop of Armagh. Their burst of literary activity involved a ruthless redaction (Lacey likens it to ?Stalinization?) of the early annals, genealogies, and regnal lists that projected the political alignment of the eighth-century back, conveniently beyond the time of memory, into the largely undocumented fifth century. Contemporaneous with that editorial process, scholars began designating a dozen peoples in the northwest, led chiefly by Cen?l Conaill and Cen?l nE?gain, under a new rubric: U? N?ill in Tuaiscirt. Lacey collectively labels their territory ?the Donegal kingdoms.? Drawing on recent scholarship by Thomas Charles-Edwards, Ailbhe Mac Shamhr?in, and others, he makes a compelling case for their biological distinctiveness from those midland peoples traditionally regarded as nepotes N?ill. A second literary phase occurred in the thirteenth century as the newly emergent ? Domhnaill dynasty sponsored its own aetiology of Cen?l Conaill. That effort, incorporating earlier recensions, was codified in Eachtra Conaill Gulban, a bloodthirsty saga recounting how Niall No?giallach?s sons invaded Donegal from Connacht and conquered its indigenous inhabitants (D?l Fiatach). Lacey expertly deconstructs this fable, as well. Based on detailed analysis of maternal ancestries, placenames, hagiography, archaeology, and saints? genealogies, he concludes that Cen?l Conaill were more likely a Cruithin people affiliated with the U? Echach Coba and, perhaps, the Conaille Muirtheimme. His position is well-reasoned, but knotty problems occasioned by vague and contradictory sources render his conclusion necessarily speculative. Following the seminal research of D?nall Mac Giolla Easpaig, Niall ? D?naill, and others, Lacey also makes a strong case for the separate biological identity of its constituent peoples who, according to the medieval genealogies, encompassed a southern dynasty (Cen?l n?eda Esa Ruaid), a western kindred (Cen?l mB?gaine), and a northern sept (Cen?l Lugdach), among others. In fact, though, a newly-published DNA analysis of modern surname-bearers demonstrates that these Cen?l Conaill peoples share a distinctive haplotype characteristic with each other and with Cen?l nE?gain [Laoise T. Moore et al., ?A Y-Chromosome Signature of Hegemony in Gaelic Ireland,? American Journal of Human Genetics 78 (2006) 334-38]. Saliva swabs taken from bearers of surnames originating in Cen?l n?eda Esa Ruaid (Cannon, Gallagher), Cen?l Lugdach (Boyle, Doherty, McMenamin, O?Donnell), and Cen?l nE?gain (Devlin, Donnelly, Gormley, McLoughlin, O?Kane, Quinn) reveal a common genetic marker from a single ancestor who lived about 1,730 years ago in the Irish northwest. Lacey persuasively eliminates Niall No?giallach as that progenitor, but other (fictional?) candidates remain: Cana mac Luigdech L?mfhata, D?l Fiatach leader of Sentuatha Ulaid (ECG); Echu Doiml?n, father of the Three Collas (T.F. O?Rahilly, D?ibh? ? Cr?in?n); or perhaps Lacey?s own anonymous Cruithin prince. All we know for certain is that proto-historic Donegal was contested as ferann claidib, ?sword-land,? tellingly symbolised here by the Ballyshannon sword hilt (Early Iron Age) that graces the frontispiece. Brian Lacey?s pathbreaking study represents the mature fruit of three decades of fieldwork and publication. He provides a fascinating synthesis of scholarship new and old (the bibliography alone contains 240 items), supported by a vast array of landscape photographs, references, maps, drawings, and genealogical tables designed to ease the way for readers. His book is densely packed with fresh insights, e.g. suggesting Mag n?tha as the original homeland of Cen?l Conaill, locating Adomn?n?s birthplace in Cen?l n?nnai, positing Druim Tuama and Derry as boundary churches of early Cen?l Conaill, identifying Ircoir battlesite (AFM 787) as the townland of Raforker (R?ith Ircoir?), delineating the Ballintra wetlands as the boundary between Mag Latrain and Mag Sereth, and proposing Tory Island as initially a Cen?l nE?gain foundation. Cen?l Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms forges a brilliant new template for our evolving understanding of Irish antiquity. It is destined to take its place as the leading reinterpretation of the powerful U? N?ill federation and its hold on the prized kingship of Tara. Tom?s G. ? Canann -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dna-r1b1c7-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 5:15 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 Today's Topics: 1. Re: MacLysaght and Woulfe (Jerry Kelly) 2. Re: MacLysaght and Woulfe (Bob Quinn) 3. Re: Cenel Conaill And the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 (Paul Conroy) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:42:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@irishtribes.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <1314042158.1919.YahooMailClassic@web1102.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Bob a chara, MacLysaght is still under copyright buy Sloinnte Gaedheal Is Gall (Surnames of the Gaeil and Gaill) by an t-Athair P?draig de Bhulbh (Fr. Patrick Woulfe) is available at: http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, but excellent nevertheless. Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, Jerry Treibheanna ?ireannacha www.irishtribes.com --- On Mon, 8/22/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> wrote: > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? N?ill? > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 12:38 PM > > Thank you, Gerry. Is there any way to get McLysacht's read on names > other than to buy the book? I had no? luck on the Internet. Regards, > Bob > > Bob Quinn > President&CEO > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI > Manufacturer's Roundtable > 27 Langton Lane > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > T:610-331-4920 > e-mail:raaq@live.com > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > ? > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:17:21 -0700 > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [R-M222]??? Cen?l Maine - > truly U? N?ill? > > > > Bob a chara, > > > > Someone may have answered this already but Quinn is > short for X Cuinn / X of Conn.? Cuinn is the genitive of Conn, a > grammatical way to say 'of Conn'.? Mac Cuinn would be Son of Conn.? ? > Cuinn would be Grandson of Conn.? But the 'of' part is in Cuinn, not > in Mac or ?.? > > > > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, > > Jerry > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > wrote: > > > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? > N?ill? > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 2:23 PM > > > > > > Would like to know his opinion. Everyone else > thinks it is > > > Son of Conn. > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > President&CEO > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > Partners > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:52:05 +0100 > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > U? > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > Thanks Bob > > > > > > > > Do you or anyone else know what McLysacht > gives for > > > the derivation of the > > > > surname Quinn? > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > On Behalf Of Bob Quinn > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 16:29 > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > U? > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 15, 12,12, on DYS 19,439,442. > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > President&CEO > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > Partners > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > From: raaq@live.com > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:06:30 -0400 > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - > truly U? > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in any resource for > Haplotypes of > > > the early Celts, so I'll > > > > be watching for feedback. I am included in > R-M222 and > > > my Quinns/Murphys are > > > > from Armagh. The Davidski studies indicate a > higher > > > Scandinavain component > > > > for me than for most Irish. Does this mean > anything to > > > anybody? > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay > Street > > > Partners > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's > Roundtable > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:48:52 > +0100 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > - truly > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bernard > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think the MagCargamni is a > candidate > > > for the origins of > > > > McHarg/Mac > > > > > > Giolla Chairge? Also, can you > point me to > > > his haplotype? > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found an interesting match > between > > > Ewing and a Quinn, with matches > > > > at > > > > > > DYS 19,439,442 = 15,13,11. I don't > think the > > > Quinn is from O'Quin > > > > though. I > > > > > > think he's from Mackquein, which > may be from > > > McEwen of Ottir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 07:04 > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > - truly > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > > >? > > > > > > Of course I have a vested interest > in > > > understanding Cenel Maine, however > > > > I > > > > > > hadn't taken the step to > investigate the > > > claim against Cenel Maine. > > > > Brynes?s > > > > > > argument - that Cenel Maine has > conflicting > > > pedigree and that closeness > > > > to > > > > > > Ui Maine means that they are Ui > Maine Fails. > > > For Dobbs shows that "Cenel > > > > > > Maine" originates in a seperate > location > > > distant from Ui Maine. > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the > > > > > > list, > please send an > > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > >? ??? > > >? ? ? ??? > > >? ? ? ? ??? > > >??? > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, > > > > > please > send an > > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > >? ??? > > >? ? ? ??? > > >? ? ? ? ??? > > >??? > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > > > > > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the > > > subject and the body of the message ? ??? > > >? ? ? ??? > > >? ? ? ? ??? > > >??? > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of the message ??? > ???????? > ?????? ??? > ? > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:17:09 -0400 From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe To: <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <BLU128-W1895CD6796640A94586BB3A02F0@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Thanks very much, Jerry. Regards, Bob Bob Quinn President&CEO Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable 27 Langton Lane Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 T:610-331-4920 e-mail:raaq@live.com Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:42:38 -0700 > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe > > Bob a chara, > > MacLysaght is still under copyright buy Sloinnte Gaedheal Is Gall (Surnames of the Gaeil and Gaill) by an t-Athair P?draig de Bhulbh (Fr. Patrick Woulfe) is available at: > > http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php > > An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, but excellent nevertheless. > > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, > Jerry > > Treibheanna ?ireannacha > www.irishtribes.com > > > --- On Mon, 8/22/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> wrote: > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? N?ill? > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 12:38 PM > > > > Thank you, Gerry. Is there any way to get McLysacht's read on names > > other than to buy the book? I had no luck on the Internet. Regards, > > Bob > > > > Bob Quinn > > President&CEO > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI > > Manufacturer's Roundtable > > 27 Langton Lane > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > T:610-331-4920 > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:17:21 -0700 > > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - > > truly U? N?ill? > > > > > > Bob a chara, > > > > > > Someone may have answered this already but Quinn is > > short for X Cuinn / X of Conn. Cuinn is the genitive of Conn, a > > grammatical way to say 'of Conn'. Mac Cuinn would be Son of Conn. > > ? Cuinn would be Grandson of Conn. But the 'of' part is in Cuinn, > > not in Mac or ?. > > > > > > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, > > > Jerry > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? > > N?ill? > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 2:23 PM > > > > > > > > Would like to know his opinion. Everyone else > > thinks it is > > > > Son of Conn. > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > President&CEO > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > > Partners > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:52:05 +0100 > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > > U? > > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Bob > > > > > > > > > > Do you or anyone else know what McLysacht > > gives for > > > > the derivation of the > > > > > surname Quinn? > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Bob Quinn > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 16:29 > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > > U? > > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 15, 12,12, on DYS 19,439,442. > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > > Partners > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: raaq@live.com > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:06:30 -0400 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - > > truly U? > > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in any resource for > > Haplotypes of > > > > the early Celts, so I'll > > > > > be watching for feedback. I am included in > > R-M222 and > > > > my Quinns/Murphys are > > > > > from Armagh. The Davidski studies indicate a > > higher > > > > Scandinavain component > > > > > for me than for most Irish. Does this mean > > anything to > > > > anybody? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay > > Street > > > > Partners > > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's > > Roundtable > > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > > Profile: > > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:48:52 > > +0100 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > > - truly > > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bernard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think the MagCargamni is a > > candidate > > > > for the origins of > > > > > McHarg/Mac > > > > > > > Giolla Chairge? Also, can you > > point me to > > > > his haplotype? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found an interesting match > > between > > > > Ewing and a Quinn, with matches > > > > > at > > > > > > > DYS 19,439,442 = 15,13,11. I don't > > think the > > > > Quinn is from O'Quin > > > > > though. I > > > > > > > think he's from Mackquein, which > > may be from > > > > McEwen of Ottir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > > > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 07:04 > > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > > - truly > > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course I have a vested interest > > in > > > > understanding Cenel Maine, however > > > > > I > > > > > > > hadn't taken the step to > > investigate the > > > > claim against Cenel Maine. > > > > > Brynes?s > > > > > > > argument - that Cenel Maine has > > conflicting > > > > pedigree and that closeness > > > > > to > > > > > > > Ui Maine means that they are Ui > > Maine Fails. > > > > For Dobbs shows that "Cenel > > > > > > > Maine" originates in a seperate > > location > > > > distant from Ui Maine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the > > > > > > > list, > > please send an > > > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the > > > > > > list, please > > send an > > > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, > > > > > please send an > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, > > > > > please send an > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > the > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > > email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > the > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 17:14:38 -0400 From: Paul Conroy <pconroy63@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenel Conaill And the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <CA+2t2c5RZG=gXzsY4MXu_C9sJnKg-chof2wjvTB5FRpjNmmK3g@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 John, BTW, I just noticed something in your link to Connachta Clans: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/connachta.htm It lists: *McConroi = King* This Gaelic name is also translated as "*Conroy*" of course, as well as Conry, Connery and so on. Did you compile this list yourself or got it from some other source? More here: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Conroy/default.aspx?section=ycolorized Cheers, Paul On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Bernard Morgan <bernardmorgan@hotmail.com>wrote: > > > Here are a few quotes from Lacey's book. He believes the northern Ui > > Neill (Cenel Conaill, Cenel Eoghain and Cenel Enda) did not move > > north > into > > Donegal as stated by all Irish historians but were Cruithin, > > One way to answer to the question is whether they share the same mutation. > > In ysearch.org sometime back I found Conlon NM4WF from Belfield, Co. > Westmeath who is M222+. Belfield is near Gaybrook and is within the > former lands of Clann Enna mac Laoghaire. The O'Conlon (O Caindelbain) > are the senior branch of Clann Enda mac Laogaire and of Cenel Laogaire > in Midi. So is Cenel Laogaire of the Southern Ui Neill M222+? > > > > From a DNA standpoint, I'm not sure we can yet say the northern and > > southern Ui Neill were related by blood in descent from Niall. Most > > of > the DNA > > we possess is either Connachta or northern Ui Neill in origin. Or > > just > plain > > of unknown origin. There is some in the south, O'Mulloys and > > Geoghegans, I think the Trinity study largely skipped over southern > > Ui Neill > surnames. > > In the following list I only see a few that might be southern Ui Neill. > > > > (O?)Gallagher (12), > > (O?)Boyle (9), (O?)Doherty (5), O?Donnell (4), O?Connor (3), Cannon > > (3), Bradley (2), O?Reilly (2), Flynn (2), (Mc)Kee (2), Campbell > > (1), Devlin (1), Donnelly (1), Egan (1), Gormley (1), Hynes (1), > > McCaul (1), McGovern (1), McLoughlin (1), McManus (1), McMenamin > > (1), Molloy (1), O?Kane (1), O?Rourke (1), and Quinn (1). > > > > Molloy might be one. McLoughlin another if the O Mailsechlainns of > > Meath were targeted. But that also could be MacLochlainn of Donegal. > > The Trinity report did not investigate the existance of M222+ amongst > the Southern Ui Neill? > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ End of DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 ****************************************** ------------------------------ End of DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 269 ****************************************** ------------------------------ End of DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 271 ******************************************

The latest DNA-R1B1C7 digest had one post of about a dozen new lines... but included the entire digest #269, which included the entire digest #267! There are others who, while not regurgitating an entire digest to the list, could also stand to trim extraneous back quotes. Digest readers, and those in future using "search" on the list archive, thank you. Larry

In a message dated 8/22/2011 2:50:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, gerry@ringofgullion.com writes: With McEvoy's Haugheys and Jerry's work with the Annals and my M222 test and unusual matches, I pretty sure that the Dál Fiatach were M222, at least on the main line. That would be an oddity in pedigrees if the Dal Fiatach turned out to be M222. There's no link to the Dal Cuinn anywhere in sight. Here's Dunlevy pedigree from O'Clery: GENELACH .H. DHUINN SHLEBHE 1789. Cu uladh m Concobair m Duinn slebe (o ta ffulit .h. Duinn slebhe) m Eochada m Neill m Eachdach m Ardgair m Madadain m Aedha m Eochugain m Aedha m Eachdhach m Fiachna m Aedha roin m Beicc boirche m Blaithmaic m Mail coba m Fiachna m Demain m Cairill m Muiredaigh muindeirg m Forga m Dallain m Dubhtaigh m Mianaigh m Lughdhach m Aednghusa finn m Ferghusa duibhdhetaigh m Iomachdha m Fionncadha m Ogamain m Fiatach finn (o ta Dal fFiatach) m Daire m Dluthaigh m Eithsin m Eachdach m Sin m Rosin m Trein m Roitrein m Airndil m Maine m Forga m Fearadaigh m Oilealla erann m Fiacha fer mara m Aonghusa turmigh m Echach foiltletain m Oilella caisfhiaclaigh m Connla cruaidcelgaigh m Irereo gleofhataigh m Melge molbthaigh m Cobthaigh caoilbregh m Ughoine moir. This is one of the pedigrees O'Rahilly would have labeled Erainn from the name Daire. Some think that is connected to the Darini of Ptolemy's map. They appear near the Robogdii whom most think are the Dal Riata and the Voluntii which most think are the Ulaidh. I was puzzled though by the amount of M222 that seemed to appear in Maguinness samples. Let us lift our heads at Craebh Ruadh,158 Let us enumerate the chief kings of Uladh,159 The lands of hospitality, with spears, The O'Duinnsleibhes,160 the O hEachadhas.161 160. O'Duinnsleibhe, otherwise called MacDuinnsleibhe, and now anglicised Donlevy, without either prefix. This family lost its ancient rank shortly after the English invasion, and a branch of them removed to Tirconnell, where they became physicians to O'Donnell. Some of them passed into Scotland, where they made the name Dunlief and Dunlap, and others have changed it to Livingston. See Annals of Four Masters, A.D. 1149, 1178, 1227, 1395, 1586. 161. O'h-Eochadha.- This family was of the same race as O'Duinnsleibhe, and also lost its ancient dignity about the same time. It is now anglicised Haughey, Haugh, and Hoey, without the O'. See Annals of Four Masters, 1114, 1164, 1172, 1194. These notes are by O'Donovan. I don't know where the idea that they migrated to Donegal came from. There is an oddity in the Leabhor Clann Suibhne that mentions a Dunlevy family in descent from the MacSweeneys of Donegal.. "Of Toirrdhealbhach of Béal Atha Daire, the next chieftain, there is no record in the Annals. His descendants are said to have assumed the name of Mac Duinnshléibhe,^7 now known as ' Dunlevy". There's a writeup of the Dunlevys in Donegal in Donegal History and Society. It states the first Dunlevy on record in Donegal is Muirchetach mac an Ultaigh sl. 1281 along with an O Domhnall. Then it mentions a physician Muiiris mac Poil Ultagh who d. 1395, chief physician of the Cenel Conaill. Somewhere, I can't remember where, I read a somewhat critical view of this descent. Mac an Ultaigh just means son of the Ulster man. The surname is not traced in the O'Clery genealogies and the writer speculated that the Utlaghs of Donegal simply adopted the idea that their Ulster ancestors were the O'Donlevys of east Ulster (KIngs thereof). What the truth is I do now know. John

Cenel Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms 500 - 800, p 145: "In addition, two possibly earlier population groups have also been mentioned: The Windukatii in the Dunfanaghy area who may have been the precursors of the Cenel Duach kingdom of Goll and Irgoo." Page 101 "The name Dunfanaghy is usually said to be an anglicisation of Dun Fionnachaidh, the fort of the white field (Mac Giolla Easpaig 1995, 161), but Alan Mac an Bhaird has argued that it derives from a very early Proto-Irish form Dunon Windukation 'the fort of the Windukatii'. The latter, he argues, is a tribal name that appears as Ouenniknioi in Ptolemy's material for a map of these islands, compiled in the first century AD" No mention of the Venicones or 'Ven' related tribes in Lacey's book. -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dna-r1b1c7-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 7:05 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 269 Today's Topics: 1. Re: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 (Robert Reid) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 19:04:45 -0400 From: "Robert Reid" <rreid002@insight.rr.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 To: <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <000101cc611f$e257b120$a7071360$@insight.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Review of Lacey's book CEN?L CONAILL AND THE DONEGAL KINGDOMS, AD 500 ? 800 by Tomas ),Canann. Cen?l Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 Brian Lacey CEN?L CONAILL AND THE DONEGAL KINGDOMS, AD 500 ? 800. Four Courts Press, Dublin, 2006. Pp 351. Price 45 Euro. ISBN 978-1-85182-978-1. "Lacey expertly deconstructs this fable, as well. Based on detailed analysis of maternal ancestries, place names, hagiography, archaeology, and saints? genealogies, he concludes that Cen?l Conaill were more likely a Cruithin people affiliated with the U? Echach Coba and, perhaps, the Conaille Muirtheimme. His position is well-reasoned, but knotty problems occasioned by vague and contradictory sources render his conclusion necessarily speculative." Paragraph 3 Tom?s G. ? Canann. Perched high atop a narrow isthmus, the Grian?n Ailig strategically guards the great northern waterways of Lough Foyle and Lough Swilly. On a clear day, it commands a panoramic view in all directions; in particular, the southwestern prospect extends more than 35 miles, clean through the famed Bernas M?r gap in the Blue Stack Mountains, to the cobalt waters of Donegal Bay. This massive stone cashel may have been built shortly after the pivotal battle of Cl?itech in 789, both to create a more impressive caput for Cen?l nE?gain and to celebrate its decisive victory over archrival Cen?l Conaill for supremacy of the territory known today as County Donegal. How the emerging kingdom of Ailech came to be consolidated by the end of the eighth century is the subject of an important new book by Dr Brian Lacey, pioneering director of the Donegal Archaeological Survey, noted Columban scholar, and distinguished historian of medieval Ulster. Why this story matters in the larger ?national? picture is explained at the outset: the first two, perhaps the first three, genuinely historical figures described as ?king of Ireland? in early texts came from Cen?l Conaill in Donegal. That same people gave birth to Colum Cille and Adomn?n, the most prominent Irish clerics of the sixth and seventh centuries. Their monastery at Iona in the Inner Hebrides, staffed mainly by monks from Donegal, quickly became a place of enormous cultural influence. In fact, Lacey perceptively notes, compilation of the Iona Chronicle seems to have initiated the practice of recording annals, and thus the Donegal community in spiritual exile there could justly be said to have invented the writing of Irish history. The origin of early medieval Donegal, as it was understood for many centuries, represented a carefully-built construct of two distinct phases in Irish historiography. The earlier stratum began in the eighth century when historians promoted the political supremacy of the U? N?ill (particularly Cen?l nE?gain) in tandem with the ecclesiastical primacy of Armagh. Lacey identifies the likely sponsors of this ambitious intellectual and propaganda enterprise as ?ed All?n (d. 743), Cen?l nE?gain king of Tara, and Congus (d. 750), bishop of Armagh. Their burst of literary activity involved a ruthless redaction (Lacey likens it to ?Stalinization?) of the early annals, genealogies, and regnal lists that projected the political alignment of the eighth-century back, conveniently beyond the time of memory, into the largely undocumented fifth century. Contemporaneous with that editorial process, scholars began designating a dozen peoples in the northwest, led chiefly by Cen?l Conaill and Cen?l nE?gain, under a new rubric: U? N?ill in Tuaiscirt. Lacey collectively labels their territory ?the Donegal kingdoms.? Drawing on recent scholarship by Thomas Charles-Edwards, Ailbhe Mac Shamhr?in, and others, he makes a compelling case for their biological distinctiveness from those midland peoples traditionally regarded as nepotes N?ill. A second literary phase occurred in the thirteenth century as the newly emergent ? Domhnaill dynasty sponsored its own aetiology of Cen?l Conaill. That effort, incorporating earlier recensions, was codified in Eachtra Conaill Gulban, a bloodthirsty saga recounting how Niall No?giallach?s sons invaded Donegal from Connacht and conquered its indigenous inhabitants (D?l Fiatach). Lacey expertly deconstructs this fable, as well. Based on detailed analysis of maternal ancestries, placenames, hagiography, archaeology, and saints? genealogies, he concludes that Cen?l Conaill were more likely a Cruithin people affiliated with the U? Echach Coba and, perhaps, the Conaille Muirtheimme. His position is well-reasoned, but knotty problems occasioned by vague and contradictory sources render his conclusion necessarily speculative. Following the seminal research of D?nall Mac Giolla Easpaig, Niall ? D?naill, and others, Lacey also makes a strong case for the separate biological identity of its constituent peoples who, according to the medieval genealogies, encompassed a southern dynasty (Cen?l n?eda Esa Ruaid), a western kindred (Cen?l mB?gaine), and a northern sept (Cen?l Lugdach), among others. In fact, though, a newly-published DNA analysis of modern surname-bearers demonstrates that these Cen?l Conaill peoples share a distinctive haplotype characteristic with each other and with Cen?l nE?gain [Laoise T. Moore et al., ?A Y-Chromosome Signature of Hegemony in Gaelic Ireland,? American Journal of Human Genetics 78 (2006) 334-38]. Saliva swabs taken from bearers of surnames originating in Cen?l n?eda Esa Ruaid (Cannon, Gallagher), Cen?l Lugdach (Boyle, Doherty, McMenamin, O?Donnell), and Cen?l nE?gain (Devlin, Donnelly, Gormley, McLoughlin, O?Kane, Quinn) reveal a common genetic marker from a single ancestor who lived about 1,730 years ago in the Irish northwest. Lacey persuasively eliminates Niall No?giallach as that progenitor, but other (fictional?) candidates remain: Cana mac Luigdech L?mfhata, D?l Fiatach leader of Sentuatha Ulaid (ECG); Echu Doiml?n, father of the Three Collas (T.F. O?Rahilly, D?ibh? ? Cr?in?n); or perhaps Lacey?s own anonymous Cruithin prince. All we know for certain is that proto-historic Donegal was contested as ferann claidib, ?sword-land,? tellingly symbolised here by the Ballyshannon sword hilt (Early Iron Age) that graces the frontispiece. Brian Lacey?s pathbreaking study represents the mature fruit of three decades of fieldwork and publication. He provides a fascinating synthesis of scholarship new and old (the bibliography alone contains 240 items), supported by a vast array of landscape photographs, references, maps, drawings, and genealogical tables designed to ease the way for readers. His book is densely packed with fresh insights, e.g. suggesting Mag n?tha as the original homeland of Cen?l Conaill, locating Adomn?n?s birthplace in Cen?l n?nnai, positing Druim Tuama and Derry as boundary churches of early Cen?l Conaill, identifying Ircoir battlesite (AFM 787) as the townland of Raforker (R?ith Ircoir?), delineating the Ballintra wetlands as the boundary between Mag Latrain and Mag Sereth, and proposing Tory Island as initially a Cen?l nE?gain foundation. Cen?l Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms forges a brilliant new template for our evolving understanding of Irish antiquity. It is destined to take its place as the leading reinterpretation of the powerful U? N?ill federation and its hold on the prized kingship of Tara. Tom?s G. ? Canann -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dna-r1b1c7-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 5:15 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 Today's Topics: 1. Re: MacLysaght and Woulfe (Jerry Kelly) 2. Re: MacLysaght and Woulfe (Bob Quinn) 3. Re: Cenel Conaill And the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 (Paul Conroy) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:42:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@irishtribes.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <1314042158.1919.YahooMailClassic@web1102.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Bob a chara, MacLysaght is still under copyright buy Sloinnte Gaedheal Is Gall (Surnames of the Gaeil and Gaill) by an t-Athair P?draig de Bhulbh (Fr. Patrick Woulfe) is available at: http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, but excellent nevertheless. Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, Jerry Treibheanna ?ireannacha www.irishtribes.com --- On Mon, 8/22/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> wrote: > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? N?ill? > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 12:38 PM > > Thank you, Gerry. Is there any way to get McLysacht's read on names > other than to buy the book? I had no? luck on the Internet. Regards, > Bob > > Bob Quinn > President&CEO > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI > Manufacturer's Roundtable > 27 Langton Lane > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > T:610-331-4920 > e-mail:raaq@live.com > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > ? > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:17:21 -0700 > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [R-M222]??? Cen?l Maine - > truly U? N?ill? > > > > Bob a chara, > > > > Someone may have answered this already but Quinn is > short for X Cuinn / X of Conn.? Cuinn is the genitive of Conn, a > grammatical way to say 'of Conn'.? Mac Cuinn would be Son of Conn.? ? > Cuinn would be Grandson of Conn.? But the 'of' part is in Cuinn, not > in Mac or ?.? > > > > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, > > Jerry > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > wrote: > > > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? > N?ill? > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 2:23 PM > > > > > > Would like to know his opinion. Everyone else > thinks it is > > > Son of Conn. > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > President&CEO > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > Partners > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:52:05 +0100 > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > U? > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > Thanks Bob > > > > > > > > Do you or anyone else know what McLysacht > gives for > > > the derivation of the > > > > surname Quinn? > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > On Behalf Of Bob Quinn > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 16:29 > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > U? > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 15, 12,12, on DYS 19,439,442. > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > President&CEO > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > Partners > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > From: raaq@live.com > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:06:30 -0400 > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - > truly U? > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in any resource for > Haplotypes of > > > the early Celts, so I'll > > > > be watching for feedback. I am included in > R-M222 and > > > my Quinns/Murphys are > > > > from Armagh. The Davidski studies indicate a > higher > > > Scandinavain component > > > > for me than for most Irish. Does this mean > anything to > > > anybody? > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay > Street > > > Partners > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's > Roundtable > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:48:52 > +0100 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > - truly > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bernard > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think the MagCargamni is a > candidate > > > for the origins of > > > > McHarg/Mac > > > > > > Giolla Chairge? Also, can you > point me to > > > his haplotype? > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found an interesting match > between > > > Ewing and a Quinn, with matches > > > > at > > > > > > DYS 19,439,442 = 15,13,11. I don't > think the > > > Quinn is from O'Quin > > > > though. I > > > > > > think he's from Mackquein, which > may be from > > > McEwen of Ottir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 07:04 > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > - truly > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > > >? > > > > > > Of course I have a vested interest > in > > > understanding Cenel Maine, however > > > > I > > > > > > hadn't taken the step to > investigate the > > > claim against Cenel Maine. > > > > Brynes?s > > > > > > argument - that Cenel Maine has > conflicting > > > pedigree and that closeness > > > > to > > > > > > Ui Maine means that they are Ui > Maine Fails. > > > For Dobbs shows that "Cenel > > > > > > Maine" originates in a seperate > location > > > distant from Ui Maine. > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the > > > > > > list, > please send an > > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > >? ??? > > >? ? ? ??? > > >? ? ? ? ??? > > >??? > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, > > > > > please > send an > > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > >? ??? > > >? ? ? ??? > > >? ? ? ? ??? > > >??? > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > > > > > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the > > > subject and the body of the message ? ??? > > >? ? ? ??? > > >? ? ? ? ??? > > >??? > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of the message ??? > ???????? > ?????? ??? > ? > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:17:09 -0400 From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe To: <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <BLU128-W1895CD6796640A94586BB3A02F0@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Thanks very much, Jerry. Regards, Bob Bob Quinn President&CEO Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable 27 Langton Lane Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 T:610-331-4920 e-mail:raaq@live.com Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:42:38 -0700 > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe > > Bob a chara, > > MacLysaght is still under copyright buy Sloinnte Gaedheal Is Gall (Surnames of the Gaeil and Gaill) by an t-Athair P?draig de Bhulbh (Fr. Patrick Woulfe) is available at: > > http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php > > An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, but excellent nevertheless. > > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, > Jerry > > Treibheanna ?ireannacha > www.irishtribes.com > > > --- On Mon, 8/22/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> wrote: > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? N?ill? > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 12:38 PM > > > > Thank you, Gerry. Is there any way to get McLysacht's read on names > > other than to buy the book? I had no luck on the Internet. Regards, > > Bob > > > > Bob Quinn > > President&CEO > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI > > Manufacturer's Roundtable > > 27 Langton Lane > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > T:610-331-4920 > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:17:21 -0700 > > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - > > truly U? N?ill? > > > > > > Bob a chara, > > > > > > Someone may have answered this already but Quinn is > > short for X Cuinn / X of Conn. Cuinn is the genitive of Conn, a > > grammatical way to say 'of Conn'. Mac Cuinn would be Son of Conn. > > ? Cuinn would be Grandson of Conn. But the 'of' part is in Cuinn, > > not in Mac or ?. > > > > > > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, > > > Jerry > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? > > N?ill? > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 2:23 PM > > > > > > > > Would like to know his opinion. Everyone else > > thinks it is > > > > Son of Conn. > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > President&CEO > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > > Partners > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:52:05 +0100 > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > > U? > > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Bob > > > > > > > > > > Do you or anyone else know what McLysacht > > gives for > > > > the derivation of the > > > > > surname Quinn? > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Bob Quinn > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 16:29 > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > > U? > > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 15, 12,12, on DYS 19,439,442. > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > > Partners > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: raaq@live.com > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:06:30 -0400 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - > > truly U? > > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in any resource for > > Haplotypes of > > > > the early Celts, so I'll > > > > > be watching for feedback. I am included in > > R-M222 and > > > > my Quinns/Murphys are > > > > > from Armagh. The Davidski studies indicate a > > higher > > > > Scandinavain component > > > > > for me than for most Irish. Does this mean > > anything to > > > > anybody? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay > > Street > > > > Partners > > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's > > Roundtable > > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > > Profile: > > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:48:52 > > +0100 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > > - truly > > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bernard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think the MagCargamni is a > > candidate > > > > for the origins of > > > > > McHarg/Mac > > > > > > > Giolla Chairge? Also, can you > > point me to > > > > his haplotype? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found an interesting match > > between > > > > Ewing and a Quinn, with matches > > > > > at > > > > > > > DYS 19,439,442 = 15,13,11. I don't > > think the > > > > Quinn is from O'Quin > > > > > though. I > > > > > > > think he's from Mackquein, which > > may be from > > > > McEwen of Ottir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > > > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 07:04 > > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > > - truly > > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course I have a vested interest > > in > > > > understanding Cenel Maine, however > > > > > I > > > > > > > hadn't taken the step to > > investigate the > > > > claim against Cenel Maine. > > > > > Brynes?s > > > > > > > argument - that Cenel Maine has > > conflicting > > > > pedigree and that closeness > > > > > to > > > > > > > Ui Maine means that they are Ui > > Maine Fails. > > > > For Dobbs shows that "Cenel > > > > > > > Maine" originates in a seperate > > location > > > > distant from Ui Maine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the > > > > > > > list, > > please send an > > > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the > > > > > > list, please > > send an > > > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, > > > > > please send an > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, > > > > > please send an > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > the > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > > email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > the > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 17:14:38 -0400 From: Paul Conroy <pconroy63@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenel Conaill And the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <CA+2t2c5RZG=gXzsY4MXu_C9sJnKg-chof2wjvTB5FRpjNmmK3g@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 John, BTW, I just noticed something in your link to Connachta Clans: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/connachta.htm It lists: *McConroi = King* This Gaelic name is also translated as "*Conroy*" of course, as well as Conry, Connery and so on. Did you compile this list yourself or got it from some other source? More here: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Conroy/default.aspx?section=ycolorized Cheers, Paul On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Bernard Morgan <bernardmorgan@hotmail.com>wrote: > > > Here are a few quotes from Lacey's book. He believes the northern Ui > > Neill (Cenel Conaill, Cenel Eoghain and Cenel Enda) did not move > > north > into > > Donegal as stated by all Irish historians but were Cruithin, > > One way to answer to the question is whether they share the same mutation. > > In ysearch.org sometime back I found Conlon NM4WF from Belfield, Co. > Westmeath who is M222+. Belfield is near Gaybrook and is within the > former lands of Clann Enna mac Laoghaire. The O'Conlon (O Caindelbain) > are the senior branch of Clann Enda mac Laogaire and of Cenel Laogaire > in Midi. So is Cenel Laogaire of the Southern Ui Neill M222+? > > > > From a DNA standpoint, I'm not sure we can yet say the northern and > > southern Ui Neill were related by blood in descent from Niall. Most > > of > the DNA > > we possess is either Connachta or northern Ui Neill in origin. Or > > just > plain > > of unknown origin. There is some in the south, O'Mulloys and > > Geoghegans, I think the Trinity study largely skipped over southern > > Ui Neill > surnames. > > In the following list I only see a few that might be southern Ui Neill. > > > > (O?)Gallagher (12), > > (O?)Boyle (9), (O?)Doherty (5), O?Donnell (4), O?Connor (3), Cannon > > (3), Bradley (2), O?Reilly (2), Flynn (2), (Mc)Kee (2), Campbell > > (1), Devlin (1), Donnelly (1), Egan (1), Gormley (1), Hynes (1), > > McCaul (1), McGovern (1), McLoughlin (1), McManus (1), McMenamin > > (1), Molloy (1), O?Kane (1), O?Rourke (1), and Quinn (1). > > > > Molloy might be one. McLoughlin another if the O Mailsechlainns of > > Meath were targeted. But that also could be MacLochlainn of Donegal. > > The Trinity report did not investigate the existance of M222+ amongst > the Southern Ui Neill? > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ End of DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 ****************************************** ------------------------------ End of DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 269 ******************************************

Review by Benjamin Hudson, History Dept., at Penn State Univ. of Lacey's Cenel Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms 500 - 800: "They are two main arguments in the book. The first is that the so-called Ui Neill confederation was less an extended dynasty connected through a remote ancestor named Niall of the Nine Hostages, whose descendants emigrated out of Connacht, and more a "flag of convenience" for several unconnected royal families who wished to make claims of antique supremacy throughout Ireland. The second argument follows the first: the kingly families of Cenell Conaill were not descended from Niall of the Nine Hostages and did not emigrate north from Connacht but were indigenous to Donegal and expanded southwards. Lacey argues that in the eighth century the supporters of the rival dynasty of Cenel nEogain developed the idea of a "Northern Ui Neill" with ancient lordship in the north of Ireland - an opportunity provided by Cenel Conaill's military defeats. These arguments require a close reading of the source material. Students of early Irish history are accustomed to making a journey through the looking glass when using texts whose material is occasionally fantasy based on nuggets of genuine historical information. These texts were produced by clerical supporters of particular dynasties who were willing to create composite works in the interests of their patrons. An important source of evidence for Lacey's argument is provided by a legend called "The Adventure of Conaill Gulban" (Echtra Conaill Gulban), which purports to tell the story of Cenell Coonaill to the seventh century. Lacey devotes a chapter to this tale as he argues that even though the extant version is in a seventeenth-century manuscript, it was based on a thirteenth-century text, which followed an original that was composed in the seventh century and that supports his thesis. A danger with this methodology is that of hypercorrection in the interests of the author's particular views. Similar arguments have been proposed before, most notably by John Kelleher, who argued that an Ui Neill confederation composed of descendants of a king named Niall of the Nine Hostages was a fabrication developed in the seventh and eighth centuries in the interests of the Cenel nEogain and the midlands principality of Clan Cholmain. The Irish annals, Kelleher asserted, were then reworked in the interests of this new entity. At the time Kelleher's arguments met ferocious opposition ....." Cambridge Journals Online Abstract - Speculum 2008 Vol 83 Issue 2 -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dna-r1b1c7-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 7:05 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 269 Today's Topics: 1. Re: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 (Robert Reid) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 19:04:45 -0400 From: "Robert Reid" <rreid002@insight.rr.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 To: <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <000101cc611f$e257b120$a7071360$@insight.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Review of Lacey's book CEN?L CONAILL AND THE DONEGAL KINGDOMS, AD 500 ? 800 by Tomas ),Canann. Cen?l Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 Brian Lacey CEN?L CONAILL AND THE DONEGAL KINGDOMS, AD 500 ? 800. Four Courts Press, Dublin, 2006. Pp 351. Price 45 Euro. ISBN 978-1-85182-978-1. "Lacey expertly deconstructs this fable, as well. Based on detailed analysis of maternal ancestries, place names, hagiography, archaeology, and saints? genealogies, he concludes that Cen?l Conaill were more likely a Cruithin people affiliated with the U? Echach Coba and, perhaps, the Conaille Muirtheimme. His position is well-reasoned, but knotty problems occasioned by vague and contradictory sources render his conclusion necessarily speculative." Paragraph 3 Tom?s G. ? Canann. Perched high atop a narrow isthmus, the Grian?n Ailig strategically guards the great northern waterways of Lough Foyle and Lough Swilly. On a clear day, it commands a panoramic view in all directions; in particular, the southwestern prospect extends more than 35 miles, clean through the famed Bernas M?r gap in the Blue Stack Mountains, to the cobalt waters of Donegal Bay. This massive stone cashel may have been built shortly after the pivotal battle of Cl?itech in 789, both to create a more impressive caput for Cen?l nE?gain and to celebrate its decisive victory over archrival Cen?l Conaill for supremacy of the territory known today as County Donegal. How the emerging kingdom of Ailech came to be consolidated by the end of the eighth century is the subject of an important new book by Dr Brian Lacey, pioneering director of the Donegal Archaeological Survey, noted Columban scholar, and distinguished historian of medieval Ulster. Why this story matters in the larger ?national? picture is explained at the outset: the first two, perhaps the first three, genuinely historical figures described as ?king of Ireland? in early texts came from Cen?l Conaill in Donegal. That same people gave birth to Colum Cille and Adomn?n, the most prominent Irish clerics of the sixth and seventh centuries. Their monastery at Iona in the Inner Hebrides, staffed mainly by monks from Donegal, quickly became a place of enormous cultural influence. In fact, Lacey perceptively notes, compilation of the Iona Chronicle seems to have initiated the practice of recording annals, and thus the Donegal community in spiritual exile there could justly be said to have invented the writing of Irish history. The origin of early medieval Donegal, as it was understood for many centuries, represented a carefully-built construct of two distinct phases in Irish historiography. The earlier stratum began in the eighth century when historians promoted the political supremacy of the U? N?ill (particularly Cen?l nE?gain) in tandem with the ecclesiastical primacy of Armagh. Lacey identifies the likely sponsors of this ambitious intellectual and propaganda enterprise as ?ed All?n (d. 743), Cen?l nE?gain king of Tara, and Congus (d. 750), bishop of Armagh. Their burst of literary activity involved a ruthless redaction (Lacey likens it to ?Stalinization?) of the early annals, genealogies, and regnal lists that projected the political alignment of the eighth-century back, conveniently beyond the time of memory, into the largely undocumented fifth century. Contemporaneous with that editorial process, scholars began designating a dozen peoples in the northwest, led chiefly by Cen?l Conaill and Cen?l nE?gain, under a new rubric: U? N?ill in Tuaiscirt. Lacey collectively labels their territory ?the Donegal kingdoms.? Drawing on recent scholarship by Thomas Charles-Edwards, Ailbhe Mac Shamhr?in, and others, he makes a compelling case for their biological distinctiveness from those midland peoples traditionally regarded as nepotes N?ill. A second literary phase occurred in the thirteenth century as the newly emergent ? Domhnaill dynasty sponsored its own aetiology of Cen?l Conaill. That effort, incorporating earlier recensions, was codified in Eachtra Conaill Gulban, a bloodthirsty saga recounting how Niall No?giallach?s sons invaded Donegal from Connacht and conquered its indigenous inhabitants (D?l Fiatach). Lacey expertly deconstructs this fable, as well. Based on detailed analysis of maternal ancestries, placenames, hagiography, archaeology, and saints? genealogies, he concludes that Cen?l Conaill were more likely a Cruithin people affiliated with the U? Echach Coba and, perhaps, the Conaille Muirtheimme. His position is well-reasoned, but knotty problems occasioned by vague and contradictory sources render his conclusion necessarily speculative. Following the seminal research of D?nall Mac Giolla Easpaig, Niall ? D?naill, and others, Lacey also makes a strong case for the separate biological identity of its constituent peoples who, according to the medieval genealogies, encompassed a southern dynasty (Cen?l n?eda Esa Ruaid), a western kindred (Cen?l mB?gaine), and a northern sept (Cen?l Lugdach), among others. In fact, though, a newly-published DNA analysis of modern surname-bearers demonstrates that these Cen?l Conaill peoples share a distinctive haplotype characteristic with each other and with Cen?l nE?gain [Laoise T. Moore et al., ?A Y-Chromosome Signature of Hegemony in Gaelic Ireland,? American Journal of Human Genetics 78 (2006) 334-38]. Saliva swabs taken from bearers of surnames originating in Cen?l n?eda Esa Ruaid (Cannon, Gallagher), Cen?l Lugdach (Boyle, Doherty, McMenamin, O?Donnell), and Cen?l nE?gain (Devlin, Donnelly, Gormley, McLoughlin, O?Kane, Quinn) reveal a common genetic marker from a single ancestor who lived about 1,730 years ago in the Irish northwest. Lacey persuasively eliminates Niall No?giallach as that progenitor, but other (fictional?) candidates remain: Cana mac Luigdech L?mfhata, D?l Fiatach leader of Sentuatha Ulaid (ECG); Echu Doiml?n, father of the Three Collas (T.F. O?Rahilly, D?ibh? ? Cr?in?n); or perhaps Lacey?s own anonymous Cruithin prince. All we know for certain is that proto-historic Donegal was contested as ferann claidib, ?sword-land,? tellingly symbolised here by the Ballyshannon sword hilt (Early Iron Age) that graces the frontispiece. Brian Lacey?s pathbreaking study represents the mature fruit of three decades of fieldwork and publication. He provides a fascinating synthesis of scholarship new and old (the bibliography alone contains 240 items), supported by a vast array of landscape photographs, references, maps, drawings, and genealogical tables designed to ease the way for readers. His book is densely packed with fresh insights, e.g. suggesting Mag n?tha as the original homeland of Cen?l Conaill, locating Adomn?n?s birthplace in Cen?l n?nnai, positing Druim Tuama and Derry as boundary churches of early Cen?l Conaill, identifying Ircoir battlesite (AFM 787) as the townland of Raforker (R?ith Ircoir?), delineating the Ballintra wetlands as the boundary between Mag Latrain and Mag Sereth, and proposing Tory Island as initially a Cen?l nE?gain foundation. Cen?l Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms forges a brilliant new template for our evolving understanding of Irish antiquity. It is destined to take its place as the leading reinterpretation of the powerful U? N?ill federation and its hold on the prized kingship of Tara. Tom?s G. ? Canann -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dna-r1b1c7-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 5:15 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 Today's Topics: 1. Re: MacLysaght and Woulfe (Jerry Kelly) 2. Re: MacLysaght and Woulfe (Bob Quinn) 3. Re: Cenel Conaill And the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 (Paul Conroy) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:42:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@irishtribes.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <1314042158.1919.YahooMailClassic@web1102.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Bob a chara, MacLysaght is still under copyright buy Sloinnte Gaedheal Is Gall (Surnames of the Gaeil and Gaill) by an t-Athair P?draig de Bhulbh (Fr. Patrick Woulfe) is available at: http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, but excellent nevertheless. Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, Jerry Treibheanna ?ireannacha www.irishtribes.com --- On Mon, 8/22/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> wrote: > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? N?ill? > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 12:38 PM > > Thank you, Gerry. Is there any way to get McLysacht's read on names > other than to buy the book? I had no? luck on the Internet. Regards, > Bob > > Bob Quinn > President&CEO > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI > Manufacturer's Roundtable > 27 Langton Lane > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > T:610-331-4920 > e-mail:raaq@live.com > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > ? > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:17:21 -0700 > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [R-M222]??? Cen?l Maine - > truly U? N?ill? > > > > Bob a chara, > > > > Someone may have answered this already but Quinn is > short for X Cuinn / X of Conn.? Cuinn is the genitive of Conn, a > grammatical way to say 'of Conn'.? Mac Cuinn would be Son of Conn.? ? > Cuinn would be Grandson of Conn.? But the 'of' part is in Cuinn, not > in Mac or ?.? > > > > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, > > Jerry > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > wrote: > > > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? > N?ill? > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 2:23 PM > > > > > > Would like to know his opinion. Everyone else > thinks it is > > > Son of Conn. > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > President&CEO > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > Partners > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:52:05 +0100 > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > U? > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > Thanks Bob > > > > > > > > Do you or anyone else know what McLysacht > gives for > > > the derivation of the > > > > surname Quinn? > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > On Behalf Of Bob Quinn > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 16:29 > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > U? > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 15, 12,12, on DYS 19,439,442. > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > President&CEO > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > Partners > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > From: raaq@live.com > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:06:30 -0400 > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - > truly U? > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in any resource for > Haplotypes of > > > the early Celts, so I'll > > > > be watching for feedback. I am included in > R-M222 and > > > my Quinns/Murphys are > > > > from Armagh. The Davidski studies indicate a > higher > > > Scandinavain component > > > > for me than for most Irish. Does this mean > anything to > > > anybody? > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay > Street > > > Partners > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's > Roundtable > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:48:52 > +0100 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > - truly > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bernard > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think the MagCargamni is a > candidate > > > for the origins of > > > > McHarg/Mac > > > > > > Giolla Chairge? Also, can you > point me to > > > his haplotype? > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found an interesting match > between > > > Ewing and a Quinn, with matches > > > > at > > > > > > DYS 19,439,442 = 15,13,11. I don't > think the > > > Quinn is from O'Quin > > > > though. I > > > > > > think he's from Mackquein, which > may be from > > > McEwen of Ottir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 07:04 > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > - truly > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > > >? > > > > > > Of course I have a vested interest > in > > > understanding Cenel Maine, however > > > > I > > > > > > hadn't taken the step to > investigate the > > > claim against Cenel Maine. > > > > Brynes?s > > > > > > argument - that Cenel Maine has > conflicting > > > pedigree and that closeness > > > > to > > > > > > Ui Maine means that they are Ui > Maine Fails. > > > For Dobbs shows that "Cenel > > > > > > Maine" originates in a seperate > location > > > distant from Ui Maine. > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the > > > > > > list, > please send an > > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > >? ??? > > >? ? ? ??? > > >? ? ? ? ??? > > >??? > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, > > > > > please > send an > > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > >? ??? > > >? ? ? ??? > > >? ? ? ? ??? > > >??? > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > > > > > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the > > > subject and the body of the message ? ??? > > >? ? ? ??? > > >? ? ? ? ??? > > >??? > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of the message ??? > ???????? > ?????? ??? > ? > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:17:09 -0400 From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe To: <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <BLU128-W1895CD6796640A94586BB3A02F0@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Thanks very much, Jerry. Regards, Bob Bob Quinn President&CEO Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable 27 Langton Lane Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 T:610-331-4920 e-mail:raaq@live.com Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:42:38 -0700 > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe > > Bob a chara, > > MacLysaght is still under copyright buy Sloinnte Gaedheal Is Gall (Surnames of the Gaeil and Gaill) by an t-Athair P?draig de Bhulbh (Fr. Patrick Woulfe) is available at: > > http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php > > An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, but excellent nevertheless. > > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, > Jerry > > Treibheanna ?ireannacha > www.irishtribes.com > > > --- On Mon, 8/22/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> wrote: > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? N?ill? > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 12:38 PM > > > > Thank you, Gerry. Is there any way to get McLysacht's read on names > > other than to buy the book? I had no luck on the Internet. Regards, > > Bob > > > > Bob Quinn > > President&CEO > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI > > Manufacturer's Roundtable > > 27 Langton Lane > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > T:610-331-4920 > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:17:21 -0700 > > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - > > truly U? N?ill? > > > > > > Bob a chara, > > > > > > Someone may have answered this already but Quinn is > > short for X Cuinn / X of Conn. Cuinn is the genitive of Conn, a > > grammatical way to say 'of Conn'. Mac Cuinn would be Son of Conn. > > ? Cuinn would be Grandson of Conn. But the 'of' part is in Cuinn, > > not in Mac or ?. > > > > > > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, > > > Jerry > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? > > N?ill? > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 2:23 PM > > > > > > > > Would like to know his opinion. Everyone else > > thinks it is > > > > Son of Conn. > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > President&CEO > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > > Partners > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:52:05 +0100 > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > > U? > > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Bob > > > > > > > > > > Do you or anyone else know what McLysacht > > gives for > > > > the derivation of the > > > > > surname Quinn? > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Bob Quinn > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 16:29 > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > > U? > > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 15, 12,12, on DYS 19,439,442. > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > > Partners > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: raaq@live.com > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:06:30 -0400 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - > > truly U? > > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in any resource for > > Haplotypes of > > > > the early Celts, so I'll > > > > > be watching for feedback. I am included in > > R-M222 and > > > > my Quinns/Murphys are > > > > > from Armagh. The Davidski studies indicate a > > higher > > > > Scandinavain component > > > > > for me than for most Irish. Does this mean > > anything to > > > > anybody? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay > > Street > > > > Partners > > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's > > Roundtable > > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > > Profile: > > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:48:52 > > +0100 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > > - truly > > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bernard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think the MagCargamni is a > > candidate > > > > for the origins of > > > > > McHarg/Mac > > > > > > > Giolla Chairge? Also, can you > > point me to > > > > his haplotype? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found an interesting match > > between > > > > Ewing and a Quinn, with matches > > > > > at > > > > > > > DYS 19,439,442 = 15,13,11. I don't > > think the > > > > Quinn is from O'Quin > > > > > though. I > > > > > > > think he's from Mackquein, which > > may be from > > > > McEwen of Ottir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > > > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 07:04 > > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > > - truly > > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course I have a vested interest > > in > > > > understanding Cenel Maine, however > > > > > I > > > > > > > hadn't taken the step to > > investigate the > > > > claim against Cenel Maine. > > > > > Brynes?s > > > > > > > argument - that Cenel Maine has > > conflicting > > > > pedigree and that closeness > > > > > to > > > > > > > Ui Maine means that they are Ui > > Maine Fails. > > > > For Dobbs shows that "Cenel > > > > > > > Maine" originates in a seperate > > location > > > > distant from Ui Maine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the > > > > > > > list, > > please send an > > > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the > > > > > > list, please > > send an > > > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, > > > > > please send an > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, > > > > > please send an > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > the > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > > email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > the > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 17:14:38 -0400 From: Paul Conroy <pconroy63@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenel Conaill And the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <CA+2t2c5RZG=gXzsY4MXu_C9sJnKg-chof2wjvTB5FRpjNmmK3g@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 John, BTW, I just noticed something in your link to Connachta Clans: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/connachta.htm It lists: *McConroi = King* This Gaelic name is also translated as "*Conroy*" of course, as well as Conry, Connery and so on. Did you compile this list yourself or got it from some other source? More here: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Conroy/default.aspx?section=ycolorized Cheers, Paul On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Bernard Morgan <bernardmorgan@hotmail.com>wrote: > > > Here are a few quotes from Lacey's book. He believes the northern Ui > > Neill (Cenel Conaill, Cenel Eoghain and Cenel Enda) did not move > > north > into > > Donegal as stated by all Irish historians but were Cruithin, > > One way to answer to the question is whether they share the same mutation. > > In ysearch.org sometime back I found Conlon NM4WF from Belfield, Co. > Westmeath who is M222+. Belfield is near Gaybrook and is within the > former lands of Clann Enna mac Laoghaire. The O'Conlon (O Caindelbain) > are the senior branch of Clann Enda mac Laogaire and of Cenel Laogaire > in Midi. So is Cenel Laogaire of the Southern Ui Neill M222+? > > > > From a DNA standpoint, I'm not sure we can yet say the northern and > > southern Ui Neill were related by blood in descent from Niall. Most > > of > the DNA > > we possess is either Connachta or northern Ui Neill in origin. Or > > just > plain > > of unknown origin. There is some in the south, O'Mulloys and > > Geoghegans, I think the Trinity study largely skipped over southern > > Ui Neill > surnames. > > In the following list I only see a few that might be southern Ui Neill. > > > > (O?)Gallagher (12), > > (O?)Boyle (9), (O?)Doherty (5), O?Donnell (4), O?Connor (3), Cannon > > (3), Bradley (2), O?Reilly (2), Flynn (2), (Mc)Kee (2), Campbell > > (1), Devlin (1), Donnelly (1), Egan (1), Gormley (1), Hynes (1), > > McCaul (1), McGovern (1), McLoughlin (1), McManus (1), McMenamin > > (1), Molloy (1), O?Kane (1), O?Rourke (1), and Quinn (1). > > > > Molloy might be one. McLoughlin another if the O Mailsechlainns of > > Meath were targeted. But that also could be MacLochlainn of Donegal. > > The Trinity report did not investigate the existance of M222+ amongst > the Southern Ui Neill? > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ End of DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 ****************************************** ------------------------------ End of DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 269 ******************************************

In a message dated 8/22/2011 4:15:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, pconroy63@gmail.com writes: John, BTW, I just noticed something in your link to Connachta Clans: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/connachta.htm It lists: *McConroi = King* This Gaelic name is also translated as "*Conroy*" of course, as well as Conry, Connery and so on. Did you compile this list yourself or got it from some other source? It's been a while but I think I took those names mostly from the Topographical poems and notes by O'Donovan then checked for corresponding pedigrees in O'Clery. Mac Conroi quietly reigns Over Gno-mor,_322_ (file:///C:/New%20O%20Clery%20Web%20Site/main6.htm#322) of smooth marshes, O'hAdhnaidh on Gno-Beg_323_ (file:///C:/New%20O%20Clery%20Web%20Site/main6.htm#323) the lasting, A nest not indigent or perishable. 322. Gno-mor, a territory in the west of the county of Galway; it comprised the northern and larger part of the barony of Moycullen, in the county of Galway. See Ogygia, part iii., c. 82. These were of the race of Lughaidh Dealbhaedh - of the Dalcassian race. The family of MacConroi have all anglicised their name to King, and their seat of Ballymaconry is now called Kingston! See Hardiman's edition of O'Flaherty's Iar-Connaught, pp. 52, 54, 62, 156, 252, 255, 391, 392. 323. Gno-beg. - This territory comprised the southern and smaller portion of the said barony of Moycullen. See Iar-Connaught, ubi supra. The name O'Hadhnaidh is now anglicised Heyny, without the prefix O'. John

In a message dated 8/22/2011 2:42:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jerrykelly@irishtribes.com writes: MacLysaght is still under copyright buy Sloinnte Gaedheal Is Gall (Surnames of the Gaeil and Gaill) by an t-Athair Pádraig de Bhulbh (Fr. Patrick Woulfe) is available at: http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, but excellent nevertheless. Thanks for that link, Jerry. I didn't know that was online. It is an excellent source. John

> Here are a few quotes from Lacey's book. He believes the northern Ui > Neill (Cenel Conaill, Cenel Eoghain and Cenel Enda) did not move north into > Donegal as stated by all Irish historians but were Cruithin, One way to answer to the question is whether they share the same mutation. In ysearch.org sometime back I found Conlon NM4WF from Belfield, Co. Westmeath who is M222+. Belfield is near Gaybrook and is within the former lands of Clann Enna mac Laoghaire. The O'Conlon (O Caindelbain) are the senior branch of Clann Enda mac Laogaire and of Cenel Laogaire in Midi. So is Cenel Laogaire of the Southern Ui Neill M222+? > From a DNA standpoint, I'm not sure we can yet say the northern and > southern Ui Neill were related by blood in descent from Niall. Most of the DNA > we possess is either Connachta or northern Ui Neill in origin. Or just plain > of unknown origin. There is some in the south, O'Mulloys and Geoghegans, > I think the Trinity study largely skipped over southern Ui Neill surnames. > In the following list I only see a few that might be southern Ui Neill. > > (O’)Gallagher (12), > (O’)Boyle (9), (O’)Doherty (5), O’Donnell (4), O’Connor (3), Cannon > (3), Bradley (2), O’Reilly (2), Flynn (2), (Mc)Kee (2), Campbell (1), > Devlin (1), Donnelly (1), Egan (1), Gormley (1), Hynes (1), McCaul > (1), McGovern (1), McLoughlin (1), McManus (1), McMenamin (1), > Molloy (1), O’Kane (1), O’Rourke (1), and Quinn (1). > > Molloy might be one. McLoughlin another if the O Mailsechlainns of Meath > were targeted. But that also could be MacLochlainn of Donegal. The Trinity report did not investigate the existance of M222+ amongst the Southern Ui Neill?

Review of Lacey's book CENÉL CONAILL AND THE DONEGAL KINGDOMS, AD 500 – 800 by Tomas ),Canann. Cenél Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 Brian Lacey CENÉL CONAILL AND THE DONEGAL KINGDOMS, AD 500 – 800. Four Courts Press, Dublin, 2006. Pp 351. Price 45 Euro. ISBN 978-1-85182-978-1. "Lacey expertly deconstructs this fable, as well. Based on detailed analysis of maternal ancestries, place names, hagiography, archaeology, and saints’ genealogies, he concludes that Cenél Conaill were more likely a Cruithin people affiliated with the Uí Echach Coba and, perhaps, the Conaille Muirtheimme. His position is well-reasoned, but knotty problems occasioned by vague and contradictory sources render his conclusion necessarily speculative." Paragraph 3 Tomás G. Ó Canann. Perched high atop a narrow isthmus, the Grianán Ailig strategically guards the great northern waterways of Lough Foyle and Lough Swilly. On a clear day, it commands a panoramic view in all directions; in particular, the southwestern prospect extends more than 35 miles, clean through the famed Bernas Mór gap in the Blue Stack Mountains, to the cobalt waters of Donegal Bay. This massive stone cashel may have been built shortly after the pivotal battle of Clóitech in 789, both to create a more impressive caput for Cenél nEógain and to celebrate its decisive victory over archrival Cenél Conaill for supremacy of the territory known today as County Donegal. How the emerging kingdom of Ailech came to be consolidated by the end of the eighth century is the subject of an important new book by Dr Brian Lacey, pioneering director of the Donegal Archaeological Survey, noted Columban scholar, and distinguished historian of medieval Ulster. Why this story matters in the larger ‘national’ picture is explained at the outset: the first two, perhaps the first three, genuinely historical figures described as ‘king of Ireland’ in early texts came from Cenél Conaill in Donegal. That same people gave birth to Colum Cille and Adomnán, the most prominent Irish clerics of the sixth and seventh centuries. Their monastery at Iona in the Inner Hebrides, staffed mainly by monks from Donegal, quickly became a place of enormous cultural influence. In fact, Lacey perceptively notes, compilation of the Iona Chronicle seems to have initiated the practice of recording annals, and thus the Donegal community in spiritual exile there could justly be said to have invented the writing of Irish history. The origin of early medieval Donegal, as it was understood for many centuries, represented a carefully-built construct of two distinct phases in Irish historiography. The earlier stratum began in the eighth century when historians promoted the political supremacy of the Uí Néill (particularly Cenél nEógain) in tandem with the ecclesiastical primacy of Armagh. Lacey identifies the likely sponsors of this ambitious intellectual and propaganda enterprise as Áed Allán (d. 743), Cenél nEógain king of Tara, and Congus (d. 750), bishop of Armagh. Their burst of literary activity involved a ruthless redaction (Lacey likens it to ‘Stalinization’) of the early annals, genealogies, and regnal lists that projected the political alignment of the eighth-century back, conveniently beyond the time of memory, into the largely undocumented fifth century. Contemporaneous with that editorial process, scholars began designating a dozen peoples in the northwest, led chiefly by Cenél Conaill and Cenél nEógain, under a new rubric: Uí Néill in Tuaiscirt. Lacey collectively labels their territory ‘the Donegal kingdoms.’ Drawing on recent scholarship by Thomas Charles-Edwards, Ailbhe Mac Shamhráin, and others, he makes a compelling case for their biological distinctiveness from those midland peoples traditionally regarded as nepotes Néill. A second literary phase occurred in the thirteenth century as the newly emergent Ó Domhnaill dynasty sponsored its own aetiology of Cenél Conaill. That effort, incorporating earlier recensions, was codified in Eachtra Conaill Gulban, a bloodthirsty saga recounting how Niall Noígiallach’s sons invaded Donegal from Connacht and conquered its indigenous inhabitants (Dál Fiatach). Lacey expertly deconstructs this fable, as well. Based on detailed analysis of maternal ancestries, placenames, hagiography, archaeology, and saints’ genealogies, he concludes that Cenél Conaill were more likely a Cruithin people affiliated with the Uí Echach Coba and, perhaps, the Conaille Muirtheimme. His position is well-reasoned, but knotty problems occasioned by vague and contradictory sources render his conclusion necessarily speculative. Following the seminal research of Dónall Mac Giolla Easpaig, Niall Ó Dónaill, and others, Lacey also makes a strong case for the separate biological identity of its constituent peoples who, according to the medieval genealogies, encompassed a southern dynasty (Cenél nÁeda Esa Ruaid), a western kindred (Cenél mBógaine), and a northern sept (Cenél Lugdach), among others. In fact, though, a newly-published DNA analysis of modern surname-bearers demonstrates that these Cenél Conaill peoples share a distinctive haplotype characteristic with each other and with Cenél nEógain [Laoise T. Moore et al., ‘A Y-Chromosome Signature of Hegemony in Gaelic Ireland,’ American Journal of Human Genetics 78 (2006) 334-38]. Saliva swabs taken from bearers of surnames originating in Cenél nÁeda Esa Ruaid (Cannon, Gallagher), Cenél Lugdach (Boyle, Doherty, McMenamin, O’Donnell), and Cenél nEógain (Devlin, Donnelly, Gormley, McLoughlin, O’Kane, Quinn) reveal a common genetic marker from a single ancestor who lived about 1,730 years ago in the Irish northwest. Lacey persuasively eliminates Niall Noígiallach as that progenitor, but other (fictional?) candidates remain: Cana mac Luigdech Lámfhata, Dál Fiatach leader of Sentuatha Ulaid (ECG); Echu Doimlén, father of the Three Collas (T.F. O’Rahilly, Dáibhí Ó Cróinín); or perhaps Lacey’s own anonymous Cruithin prince. All we know for certain is that proto-historic Donegal was contested as ferann claidib, ‘sword-land,’ tellingly symbolised here by the Ballyshannon sword hilt (Early Iron Age) that graces the frontispiece. Brian Lacey’s pathbreaking study represents the mature fruit of three decades of fieldwork and publication. He provides a fascinating synthesis of scholarship new and old (the bibliography alone contains 240 items), supported by a vast array of landscape photographs, references, maps, drawings, and genealogical tables designed to ease the way for readers. His book is densely packed with fresh insights, e.g. suggesting Mag nÍtha as the original homeland of Cenél Conaill, locating Adomnán’s birthplace in Cenél nÉnnai, positing Druim Tuama and Derry as boundary churches of early Cenél Conaill, identifying Ircoir battlesite (AFM 787) as the townland of Raforker (Ráith Ircoir?), delineating the Ballintra wetlands as the boundary between Mag Latrain and Mag Sereth, and proposing Tory Island as initially a Cenél nEógain foundation. Cenél Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms forges a brilliant new template for our evolving understanding of Irish antiquity. It is destined to take its place as the leading reinterpretation of the powerful Uí Néill federation and its hold on the prized kingship of Tara. Tomás G. Ó Canann -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dna-r1b1c7-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 5:15 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 Today's Topics: 1. Re: MacLysaght and Woulfe (Jerry Kelly) 2. Re: MacLysaght and Woulfe (Bob Quinn) 3. Re: Cenel Conaill And the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 (Paul Conroy) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:42:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@irishtribes.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <1314042158.1919.YahooMailClassic@web1102.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Bob a chara, MacLysaght is still under copyright buy Sloinnte Gaedheal Is Gall (Surnames of the Gaeil and Gaill) by an t-Athair P?draig de Bhulbh (Fr. Patrick Woulfe) is available at: http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, but excellent nevertheless. Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, Jerry Treibheanna ?ireannacha www.irishtribes.com --- On Mon, 8/22/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> wrote: > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? N?ill? > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 12:38 PM > > Thank you, Gerry. Is there any way to get McLysacht's read on names > other than to buy the book? I had no? luck on the Internet. Regards, > Bob > > Bob Quinn > President&CEO > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI > Manufacturer's Roundtable > 27 Langton Lane > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > T:610-331-4920 > e-mail:raaq@live.com > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > ? > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:17:21 -0700 > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [R-M222]??? Cen?l Maine - > truly U? N?ill? > > > > Bob a chara, > > > > Someone may have answered this already but Quinn is > short for X Cuinn / X of Conn.? Cuinn is the genitive of Conn, a > grammatical way to say 'of Conn'.? Mac Cuinn would be Son of Conn.? ? > Cuinn would be Grandson of Conn.? But the 'of' part is in Cuinn, not > in Mac or ?.? > > > > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, > > Jerry > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > wrote: > > > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? > N?ill? > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 2:23 PM > > > > > > Would like to know his opinion. Everyone else > thinks it is > > > Son of Conn. > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > President&CEO > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > Partners > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:52:05 +0100 > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > U? > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > Thanks Bob > > > > > > > > Do you or anyone else know what McLysacht > gives for > > > the derivation of the > > > > surname Quinn? > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > On Behalf Of Bob Quinn > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 16:29 > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > U? > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 15, 12,12, on DYS 19,439,442. > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > President&CEO > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > Partners > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > From: raaq@live.com > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:06:30 -0400 > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - > truly U? > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in any resource for > Haplotypes of > > > the early Celts, so I'll > > > > be watching for feedback. I am included in > R-M222 and > > > my Quinns/Murphys are > > > > from Armagh. The Davidski studies indicate a > higher > > > Scandinavain component > > > > for me than for most Irish. Does this mean > anything to > > > anybody? > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay > Street > > > Partners > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's > Roundtable > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:48:52 > +0100 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > - truly > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bernard > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think the MagCargamni is a > candidate > > > for the origins of > > > > McHarg/Mac > > > > > > Giolla Chairge? Also, can you > point me to > > > his haplotype? > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found an interesting match > between > > > Ewing and a Quinn, with matches > > > > at > > > > > > DYS 19,439,442 = 15,13,11. I don't > think the > > > Quinn is from O'Quin > > > > though. I > > > > > > think he's from Mackquein, which > may be from > > > McEwen of Ottir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 07:04 > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > - truly > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > > >? > > > > > > Of course I have a vested interest > in > > > understanding Cenel Maine, however > > > > I > > > > > > hadn't taken the step to > investigate the > > > claim against Cenel Maine. > > > > Brynes?s > > > > > > argument - that Cenel Maine has > conflicting > > > pedigree and that closeness > > > > to > > > > > > Ui Maine means that they are Ui > Maine Fails. > > > For Dobbs shows that "Cenel > > > > > > Maine" originates in a seperate > location > > > distant from Ui Maine. > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the > > > > > > list, > please send an > > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > >? ??? > > >? ? ? ??? > > >? ? ? ? ??? > > >??? > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, > > > > > please > send an > > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > >? ??? > > >? ? ? ??? > > >? ? ? ? ??? > > >??? > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > > > > > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the > > > subject and the body of the message ? ??? > > >? ? ? ??? > > >? ? ? ? ??? > > >??? > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of the message ??? > ???????? > ?????? ??? > ? > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:17:09 -0400 From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe To: <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <BLU128-W1895CD6796640A94586BB3A02F0@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Thanks very much, Jerry. Regards, Bob Bob Quinn President&CEO Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable 27 Langton Lane Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 T:610-331-4920 e-mail:raaq@live.com Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:42:38 -0700 > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe > > Bob a chara, > > MacLysaght is still under copyright buy Sloinnte Gaedheal Is Gall (Surnames of the Gaeil and Gaill) by an t-Athair P?draig de Bhulbh (Fr. Patrick Woulfe) is available at: > > http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php > > An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, but excellent nevertheless. > > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, > Jerry > > Treibheanna ?ireannacha > www.irishtribes.com > > > --- On Mon, 8/22/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> wrote: > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? N?ill? > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 12:38 PM > > > > Thank you, Gerry. Is there any way to get McLysacht's read on names > > other than to buy the book? I had no luck on the Internet. Regards, > > Bob > > > > Bob Quinn > > President&CEO > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI > > Manufacturer's Roundtable > > 27 Langton Lane > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > T:610-331-4920 > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:17:21 -0700 > > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - > > truly U? N?ill? > > > > > > Bob a chara, > > > > > > Someone may have answered this already but Quinn is > > short for X Cuinn / X of Conn. Cuinn is the genitive of Conn, a > > grammatical way to say 'of Conn'. Mac Cuinn would be Son of Conn. > > ? Cuinn would be Grandson of Conn. But the 'of' part is in Cuinn, > > not in Mac or ?. > > > > > > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, > > > Jerry > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? > > N?ill? > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 2:23 PM > > > > > > > > Would like to know his opinion. Everyone else > > thinks it is > > > > Son of Conn. > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > President&CEO > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > > Partners > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:52:05 +0100 > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > > U? > > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Bob > > > > > > > > > > Do you or anyone else know what McLysacht > > gives for > > > > the derivation of the > > > > > surname Quinn? > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Bob Quinn > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 16:29 > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > > U? > > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 15, 12,12, on DYS 19,439,442. > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > > Partners > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: raaq@live.com > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:06:30 -0400 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - > > truly U? > > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in any resource for > > Haplotypes of > > > > the early Celts, so I'll > > > > > be watching for feedback. I am included in > > R-M222 and > > > > my Quinns/Murphys are > > > > > from Armagh. The Davidski studies indicate a > > higher > > > > Scandinavain component > > > > > for me than for most Irish. Does this mean > > anything to > > > > anybody? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay > > Street > > > > Partners > > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's > > Roundtable > > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > > Profile: > > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:48:52 > > +0100 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > > - truly > > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bernard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think the MagCargamni is a > > candidate > > > > for the origins of > > > > > McHarg/Mac > > > > > > > Giolla Chairge? Also, can you > > point me to > > > > his haplotype? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found an interesting match > > between > > > > Ewing and a Quinn, with matches > > > > > at > > > > > > > DYS 19,439,442 = 15,13,11. I don't > > think the > > > > Quinn is from O'Quin > > > > > though. I > > > > > > > think he's from Mackquein, which > > may be from > > > > McEwen of Ottir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > > > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 07:04 > > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > > - truly > > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course I have a vested interest > > in > > > > understanding Cenel Maine, however > > > > > I > > > > > > > hadn't taken the step to > > investigate the > > > > claim against Cenel Maine. > > > > > Brynes?s > > > > > > > argument - that Cenel Maine has > > conflicting > > > > pedigree and that closeness > > > > > to > > > > > > > Ui Maine means that they are Ui > > Maine Fails. > > > > For Dobbs shows that "Cenel > > > > > > > Maine" originates in a seperate > > location > > > > distant from Ui Maine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the > > > > > > > list, > > please send an > > > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the > > > > > > list, please > > send an > > > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, > > > > > please send an > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, > > > > > please send an > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > the > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > > email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > the > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 17:14:38 -0400 From: Paul Conroy <pconroy63@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenel Conaill And the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <CA+2t2c5RZG=gXzsY4MXu_C9sJnKg-chof2wjvTB5FRpjNmmK3g@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 John, BTW, I just noticed something in your link to Connachta Clans: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/connachta.htm It lists: *McConroi = King* This Gaelic name is also translated as "*Conroy*" of course, as well as Conry, Connery and so on. Did you compile this list yourself or got it from some other source? More here: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Conroy/default.aspx?section=ycolorized Cheers, Paul On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Bernard Morgan <bernardmorgan@hotmail.com>wrote: > > > Here are a few quotes from Lacey's book. He believes the northern Ui > > Neill (Cenel Conaill, Cenel Eoghain and Cenel Enda) did not move > > north > into > > Donegal as stated by all Irish historians but were Cruithin, > > One way to answer to the question is whether they share the same mutation. > > In ysearch.org sometime back I found Conlon NM4WF from Belfield, Co. > Westmeath who is M222+. Belfield is near Gaybrook and is within the > former lands of Clann Enna mac Laoghaire. The O'Conlon (O Caindelbain) > are the senior branch of Clann Enda mac Laogaire and of Cenel Laogaire > in Midi. So is Cenel Laogaire of the Southern Ui Neill M222+? > > > > From a DNA standpoint, I'm not sure we can yet say the northern and > > southern Ui Neill were related by blood in descent from Niall. Most > > of > the DNA > > we possess is either Connachta or northern Ui Neill in origin. Or > > just > plain > > of unknown origin. There is some in the south, O'Mulloys and > > Geoghegans, I think the Trinity study largely skipped over southern > > Ui Neill > surnames. > > In the following list I only see a few that might be southern Ui Neill. > > > > (O?)Gallagher (12), > > (O?)Boyle (9), (O?)Doherty (5), O?Donnell (4), O?Connor (3), Cannon > > (3), Bradley (2), O?Reilly (2), Flynn (2), (Mc)Kee (2), Campbell > > (1), Devlin (1), Donnelly (1), Egan (1), Gormley (1), Hynes (1), > > McCaul (1), McGovern (1), McLoughlin (1), McManus (1), McMenamin > > (1), Molloy (1), O?Kane (1), O?Rourke (1), and Quinn (1). > > > > Molloy might be one. McLoughlin another if the O Mailsechlainns of > > Meath were targeted. But that also could be MacLochlainn of Donegal. > > The Trinity report did not investigate the existance of M222+ amongst > the Southern Ui Neill? > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ End of DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 ******************************************

This is a review of Lacey's CENÉL CONAILL AND THE DONEGAL KINGDOMS, AD 500 – 800 Cenél Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 Brian Lacey CENÉL CONAILL AND THE DONEGAL KINGDOMS, AD 500 – 800. Four Courts Press, Dublin, 2006. Pp 351. Price 45 Euro. ISBN 978-1-85182-978-1. Perched high atop a narrow isthmus, the Grianán Ailig strategically guards the great northern waterways of Lough Foyle and Lough Swilly. On a clear day, it commands a panoramic view in all directions; in particular, the southwestern prospect extends more than 35 miles, clean through the famed Bernas Mór gap in the Blue Stack Mountains, to the cobalt waters of Donegal Bay. This massive stone cashel may have been built shortly after the pivotal battle of Clóitech in 789, both to create a more impressive caput for Cenél nEógain and to celebrate its decisive victory over archrival Cenél Conaill for supremacy of the territory known today as County Donegal. How the emerging kingdom of Ailech came to be consolidated by the end of the eighth century is the subject of an important new book by Dr Brian Lacey, pioneering director of the Donegal Archaeological Survey, noted Columban scholar, and distinguished historian of medieval Ulster. Why this story matters in the larger ‘national’ picture is explained at the outset: the first two, perhaps the first three, genuinely historical figures described as ‘king of Ireland’ in early texts came from Cenél Conaill in Donegal. That same people gave birth to Colum Cille and Adomnán, the most prominent Irish clerics of the sixth and seventh centuries. Their monastery at Iona in the Inner Hebrides, staffed mainly by monks from Donegal, quickly became a place of enormous cultural influence. In fact, Lacey perceptively notes, compilation of the Iona Chronicle seems to have initiated the practice of recording annals, and thus the Donegal community in spiritual exile there could justly be said to have invented the writing of Irish history. The origin of early medieval Donegal, as it was understood for many centuries, represented a carefully-built construct of two distinct phases in Irish historiography. The earlier stratum began in the eighth century when historians promoted the political supremacy of the Uí Néill (particularly Cenél nEógain) in tandem with the ecclesiastical primacy of Armagh. Lacey identifies the likely sponsors of this ambitious intellectual and propaganda enterprise as Áed Allán (d. 743), Cenél nEógain king of Tara, and Congus (d. 750), bishop of Armagh. Their burst of literary activity involved a ruthless redaction (Lacey likens it to ‘Stalinization’) of the early annals, genealogies, and regnal lists that projected the political alignment of the eighth-century back, conveniently beyond the time of memory, into the largely undocumented fifth century. Contemporaneous with that editorial process, scholars began designating a dozen peoples in the northwest, led chiefly by Cenél Conaill and Cenél nEógain, under a new rubric: Uí Néill in Tuaiscirt. Lacey collectively labels their territory ‘the Donegal kingdoms.’ Drawing on recent scholarship by Thomas Charles-Edwards, Ailbhe Mac Shamhráin, and others, he makes a compelling case for their biological distinctiveness from those midland peoples traditionally regarded as nepotes Néill. A second literary phase occurred in the thirteenth century as the newly emergent Ó Domhnaill dynasty sponsored its own aetiology of Cenél Conaill. That effort, incorporating earlier recensions, was codified in Eachtra Conaill Gulban, a bloodthirsty saga recounting how Niall Noígiallach’s sons invaded Donegal from Connacht and conquered its indigenous inhabitants (Dál Fiatach). Lacey expertly deconstructs this fable, as well. Based on detailed analysis of maternal ancestries, placenames, hagiography, archaeology, and saints’ genealogies, he concludes that Cenél Conaill were more likely a Cruithin people affiliated with the Uí Echach Coba and, perhaps, the Conaille Muirtheimme. His position is well-reasoned, but knotty problems occasioned by vague and contradictory sources render his conclusion necessarily speculative. Following the seminal research of Dónall Mac Giolla Easpaig, Niall Ó Dónaill, and others, Lacey also makes a strong case for the separate biological identity of its constituent peoples who, according to the medieval genealogies, encompassed a southern dynasty (Cenél nÁeda Esa Ruaid), a western kindred (Cenél mBógaine), and a northern sept (Cenél Lugdach), among others. In fact, though, a newly-published DNA analysis of modern surname-bearers demonstrates that these Cenél Conaill peoples share a distinctive haplotype characteristic with each other and with Cenél nEógain [Laoise T. Moore et al., ‘A Y-Chromosome Signature of Hegemony in Gaelic Ireland,’ American Journal of Human Genetics 78 (2006) 334-38]. Saliva swabs taken from bearers of surnames originating in Cenél nÁeda Esa Ruaid (Cannon, Gallagher), Cenél Lugdach (Boyle, Doherty, McMenamin, O’Donnell), and Cenél nEógain (Devlin, Donnelly, Gormley, McLoughlin, O’Kane, Quinn) reveal a common genetic marker from a single ancestor who lived about 1,730 years ago in the Irish northwest. Lacey persuasively eliminates Niall Noígiallach as that progenitor, but other (fictional?) candidates remain: Cana mac Luigdech Lámfhata, Dál Fiatach leader of Sentuatha Ulaid (ECG); Echu Doimlén, father of the Three Collas (T.F. O’Rahilly, Dáibhí Ó Cróinín); or perhaps Lacey’s own anonymous Cruithin prince. All we know for certain is that proto-historic Donegal was contested as ferann claidib, ‘sword-land,’ tellingly symbolised here by the Ballyshannon sword hilt (Early Iron Age) that graces the frontispiece. Brian Lacey’s pathbreaking study represents the mature fruit of three decades of fieldwork and publication. He provides a fascinating synthesis of scholarship new and old (the bibliography alone contains 240 items), supported by a vast array of landscape photographs, references, maps, drawings, and genealogical tables designed to ease the way for readers. His book is densely packed with fresh insights, e.g. suggesting Mag nÍtha as the original homeland of Cenél Conaill, locating Adomnán’s birthplace in Cenél nÉnnai, positing Druim Tuama and Derry as boundary churches of early Cenél Conaill, identifying Ircoir battlesite (AFM 787) as the townland of Raforker (Ráith Ircoir?), delineating the Ballintra wetlands as the boundary between Mag Latrain and Mag Sereth, and proposing Tory Island as initially a Cenél nEógain foundation. Cenél Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms forges a brilliant new template for our evolving understanding of Irish antiquity. It is destined to take its place as the leading reinterpretation of the powerful Uí Néill federation and its hold on the prized kingship of Tara. Tomás G. Ó Canann -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dna-r1b1c7-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 5:15 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 Today's Topics: 1. Re: MacLysaght and Woulfe (Jerry Kelly) 2. Re: MacLysaght and Woulfe (Bob Quinn) 3. Re: Cenel Conaill And the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 (Paul Conroy) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:42:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@irishtribes.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <1314042158.1919.YahooMailClassic@web1102.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Bob a chara, MacLysaght is still under copyright buy Sloinnte Gaedheal Is Gall (Surnames of the Gaeil and Gaill) by an t-Athair P?draig de Bhulbh (Fr. Patrick Woulfe) is available at: http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, but excellent nevertheless. Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, Jerry Treibheanna ?ireannacha www.irishtribes.com --- On Mon, 8/22/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> wrote: > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? N?ill? > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 12:38 PM > > Thank you, Gerry. Is there any way to get McLysacht's read on names > other than to buy the book? I had no? luck on the Internet. Regards, > Bob > > Bob Quinn > President&CEO > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI > Manufacturer's Roundtable > 27 Langton Lane > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > T:610-331-4920 > e-mail:raaq@live.com > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > ? > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:17:21 -0700 > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [R-M222]??? Cen?l Maine - > truly U? N?ill? > > > > Bob a chara, > > > > Someone may have answered this already but Quinn is > short for X Cuinn / X of Conn.? Cuinn is the genitive of Conn, a > grammatical way to say 'of Conn'.? Mac Cuinn would be Son of Conn.? ? > Cuinn would be Grandson of Conn.? But the 'of' part is in Cuinn, not > in Mac or ?.? > > > > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, > > Jerry > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > wrote: > > > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? > N?ill? > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 2:23 PM > > > > > > Would like to know his opinion. Everyone else > thinks it is > > > Son of Conn. > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > President&CEO > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > Partners > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:52:05 +0100 > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > U? > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > Thanks Bob > > > > > > > > Do you or anyone else know what McLysacht > gives for > > > the derivation of the > > > > surname Quinn? > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > On Behalf Of Bob Quinn > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 16:29 > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > U? > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 15, 12,12, on DYS 19,439,442. > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > President&CEO > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > Partners > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > From: raaq@live.com > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:06:30 -0400 > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - > truly U? > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in any resource for > Haplotypes of > > > the early Celts, so I'll > > > > be watching for feedback. I am included in > R-M222 and > > > my Quinns/Murphys are > > > > from Armagh. The Davidski studies indicate a > higher > > > Scandinavain component > > > > for me than for most Irish. Does this mean > anything to > > > anybody? > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay > Street > > > Partners > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's > Roundtable > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:48:52 > +0100 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > - truly > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bernard > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think the MagCargamni is a > candidate > > > for the origins of > > > > McHarg/Mac > > > > > > Giolla Chairge? Also, can you > point me to > > > his haplotype? > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found an interesting match > between > > > Ewing and a Quinn, with matches > > > > at > > > > > > DYS 19,439,442 = 15,13,11. I don't > think the > > > Quinn is from O'Quin > > > > though. I > > > > > > think he's from Mackquein, which > may be from > > > McEwen of Ottir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 07:04 > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > - truly > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > > >? > > > > > > Of course I have a vested interest > in > > > understanding Cenel Maine, however > > > > I > > > > > > hadn't taken the step to > investigate the > > > claim against Cenel Maine. > > > > Brynes?s > > > > > > argument - that Cenel Maine has > conflicting > > > pedigree and that closeness > > > > to > > > > > > Ui Maine means that they are Ui > Maine Fails. > > > For Dobbs shows that "Cenel > > > > > > Maine" originates in a seperate > location > > > distant from Ui Maine. > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the > > > > > > list, > please send an > > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > >? ??? > > >? ? ? ??? > > >? ? ? ? ??? > > >??? > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, > > > > > please > send an > > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > >? ??? > > >? ? ? ??? > > >? ? ? ? ??? > > >??? > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > > > > > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the > > > subject and the body of the message ? ??? > > >? ? ? ??? > > >? ? ? ? ??? > > >??? > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of the message ??? > ???????? > ?????? ??? > ? > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:17:09 -0400 From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe To: <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <BLU128-W1895CD6796640A94586BB3A02F0@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Thanks very much, Jerry. Regards, Bob Bob Quinn President&CEO Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable 27 Langton Lane Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 T:610-331-4920 e-mail:raaq@live.com Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:42:38 -0700 > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe > > Bob a chara, > > MacLysaght is still under copyright buy Sloinnte Gaedheal Is Gall (Surnames of the Gaeil and Gaill) by an t-Athair P?draig de Bhulbh (Fr. Patrick Woulfe) is available at: > > http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php > > An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, but excellent nevertheless. > > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, > Jerry > > Treibheanna ?ireannacha > www.irishtribes.com > > > --- On Mon, 8/22/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> wrote: > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? N?ill? > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 12:38 PM > > > > Thank you, Gerry. Is there any way to get McLysacht's read on names > > other than to buy the book? I had no luck on the Internet. Regards, > > Bob > > > > Bob Quinn > > President&CEO > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI > > Manufacturer's Roundtable > > 27 Langton Lane > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > T:610-331-4920 > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:17:21 -0700 > > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - > > truly U? N?ill? > > > > > > Bob a chara, > > > > > > Someone may have answered this already but Quinn is > > short for X Cuinn / X of Conn. Cuinn is the genitive of Conn, a > > grammatical way to say 'of Conn'. Mac Cuinn would be Son of Conn. > > ? Cuinn would be Grandson of Conn. But the 'of' part is in Cuinn, > > not in Mac or ?. > > > > > > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best, > > > Jerry > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? > > N?ill? > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 2:23 PM > > > > > > > > Would like to know his opinion. Everyone else > > thinks it is > > > > Son of Conn. > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > President&CEO > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > > Partners > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:52:05 +0100 > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > > U? > > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Bob > > > > > > > > > > Do you or anyone else know what McLysacht > > gives for > > > > the derivation of the > > > > > surname Quinn? > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Bob Quinn > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 16:29 > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly > > U? > > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 15, 12,12, on DYS 19,439,442. > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > > Partners > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: raaq@live.com > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:06:30 -0400 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - > > truly U? > > > > N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in any resource for > > Haplotypes of > > > > the early Celts, so I'll > > > > > be watching for feedback. I am included in > > R-M222 and > > > > my Quinns/Murphys are > > > > > from Armagh. The Davidski studies indicate a > > higher > > > > Scandinavain component > > > > > for me than for most Irish. Does this mean > > anything to > > > > anybody? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay > > Street > > > > Partners > > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's > > Roundtable > > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > > Profile: > > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:48:52 > > +0100 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > > - truly > > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bernard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think the MagCargamni is a > > candidate > > > > for the origins of > > > > > McHarg/Mac > > > > > > > Giolla Chairge? Also, can you > > point me to > > > > his haplotype? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found an interesting match > > between > > > > Ewing and a Quinn, with matches > > > > > at > > > > > > > DYS 19,439,442 = 15,13,11. I don't > > think the > > > > Quinn is from O'Quin > > > > > though. I > > > > > > > think he's from Mackquein, which > > may be from > > > > McEwen of Ottir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > > > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 07:04 > > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine > > - truly > > > > U? N?ill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course I have a vested interest > > in > > > > understanding Cenel Maine, however > > > > > I > > > > > > > hadn't taken the step to > > investigate the > > > > claim against Cenel Maine. > > > > > Brynes?s > > > > > > > argument - that Cenel Maine has > > conflicting > > > > pedigree and that closeness > > > > > to > > > > > > > Ui Maine means that they are Ui > > Maine Fails. > > > > For Dobbs shows that "Cenel > > > > > > > Maine" originates in a seperate > > location > > > > distant from Ui Maine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the > > > > > > > list, > > please send an > > > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the > > > > > > list, please > > send an > > > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, > > > > > please send an > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, > > > > > please send an > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > the > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > > email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > the > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 17:14:38 -0400 From: Paul Conroy <pconroy63@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenel Conaill And the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <CA+2t2c5RZG=gXzsY4MXu_C9sJnKg-chof2wjvTB5FRpjNmmK3g@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 John, BTW, I just noticed something in your link to Connachta Clans: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/connachta.htm It lists: *McConroi = King* This Gaelic name is also translated as "*Conroy*" of course, as well as Conry, Connery and so on. Did you compile this list yourself or got it from some other source? More here: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Conroy/default.aspx?section=ycolorized Cheers, Paul On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Bernard Morgan <bernardmorgan@hotmail.com>wrote: > > > Here are a few quotes from Lacey's book. He believes the northern Ui > > Neill (Cenel Conaill, Cenel Eoghain and Cenel Enda) did not move > > north > into > > Donegal as stated by all Irish historians but were Cruithin, > > One way to answer to the question is whether they share the same mutation. > > In ysearch.org sometime back I found Conlon NM4WF from Belfield, Co. > Westmeath who is M222+. Belfield is near Gaybrook and is within the > former lands of Clann Enna mac Laoghaire. The O'Conlon (O Caindelbain) > are the senior branch of Clann Enda mac Laogaire and of Cenel Laogaire > in Midi. So is Cenel Laogaire of the Southern Ui Neill M222+? > > > > From a DNA standpoint, I'm not sure we can yet say the northern and > > southern Ui Neill were related by blood in descent from Niall. Most > > of > the DNA > > we possess is either Connachta or northern Ui Neill in origin. Or > > just > plain > > of unknown origin. There is some in the south, O'Mulloys and > > Geoghegans, I think the Trinity study largely skipped over southern > > Ui Neill > surnames. > > In the following list I only see a few that might be southern Ui Neill. > > > > (O?)Gallagher (12), > > (O?)Boyle (9), (O?)Doherty (5), O?Donnell (4), O?Connor (3), Cannon > > (3), Bradley (2), O?Reilly (2), Flynn (2), (Mc)Kee (2), Campbell > > (1), Devlin (1), Donnelly (1), Egan (1), Gormley (1), Hynes (1), > > McCaul (1), McGovern (1), McLoughlin (1), McManus (1), McMenamin > > (1), Molloy (1), O?Kane (1), O?Rourke (1), and Quinn (1). > > > > Molloy might be one. McLoughlin another if the O Mailsechlainns of > > Meath were targeted. But that also could be MacLochlainn of Donegal. > > The Trinity report did not investigate the existance of M222+ amongst > the Southern Ui Neill? > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ End of DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267 ******************************************

Here's a link on the Erainn peoples in Ireland, which could also tie together a few things: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89rainn In early Irish genealogical tracts the Érainn are regarded as an ethnic > group, distinct from the Laigin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laigin> and > Cruthin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruthin>. Population groups in > Munster classed as Érainn include the Corcu Loígde<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corcu_Lo%C3%ADgde> in > southwest County Cork <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Cork>, the > Múscraige <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BAscraige> in Counties Cork > andTipperary <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Tipperary>, the Corcu > Duibne <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corcu_Duibne> in County Kerry<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Kerry>, > and the Corcu Baiscinn <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corcu_Baiscinn> in > west County Clare <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Clare>. The Dál > Riata <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_Riata> and Dál Fiatach<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_Fiatach> > (or Ulaid <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulaid>) in Ulster<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster> are > also considered Érainn. The Érainn appear to have been a powerful group in > the proto-historic period, but in early historical times were largely > reduced to politically marginal status, with the notable exception of the > enigmatic Osraige <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osraige>. The most > important of the Munster Érainn, the Corcu Loígde, retained some measure of > prestige even after they had become marginalized by the Eóganachta<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E%C3%B3ganachta> in > the 7th or 8th century.[7]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89rainn#cite_note-6> It > is likely that the sometimes powerful Uí Liatháin<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U%C3%AD_Liath%C3%A1in> and > their close kin the Uí Fidgenti<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U%C3%AD_Fidgenti> originally > belonged to the Érainn/Dáirine as well, but were later counted among the > Eóganachta for political reasons.[8]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89rainn#cite_note-7> > [9] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89rainn#cite_note-8> Another > prominent Érainn people of early Munster are believed to have been the > Mairtine <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mairtine>, who by the early > historical period have completely vanished from the Irish landscape, > although they may be in part ancestral to the later Déisi Tuisceart<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9isi_Tuisceart> > and Dál gCais <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_gCais>.[10]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89rainn#cite_note-9> > The Déisi Muman <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9isi_Muman> may also > have had Érainn origins, but this has long been disputed. Note that Osraige is Ossory - where my family comes from. It seems likely the Iverni were related to the Darini<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darini> of > eastern Ulster <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster>.[11]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89rainn#cite_note-10> The > name "Darini" implies descent from an ancestor called Dáire<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1ire>, > (**Dārios*)[4] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89rainn#cite_note-OR-3> as > claimed by several historical peoples identified as Érainn, including the > Dál Riata and Dál Fiatach in eastern Ulster[12]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89rainn#cite_note-11> as > well the Érainn of Munster. An early name for Dundrum, County Down<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundrum,_County_Down>, > is recorded as *Dún Droma Dáirine*, and the name Dáirine<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1irine> was > applied to the Corcu Loígde, further suggesting a relationship between the > Darini and the Iverni.[4]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89rainn#cite_note-OR-3> The genealogies trace the descent of the Érainn from two separate eponymous > ancestors, Ailill Érann and Íar mac Dedad<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%8Dar_mac_Dedad>. > Legendary relatives of the latter include the Cland Dedad<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cland_Dedad> (offspring > of Deda mac Sin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deda_mac_Sin>), a Munster > people who appear in the Ulster Cycle<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Cycle>, > led by Cú Roí <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%BA_Ro%C3%AD>, son of Dáire > mac Dedad <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1ire_mac_Dedad>, and the > legendary High King <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_King_of_Ireland> Conaire > Mór <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conaire_M%C3%B3r>, grandson of Iar and > ancestor of the Síl Conairi<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%ADl_Conairi>. > The historical sept of the Uí Maicc Iair ("grandsons of the son of Iar") and > the MAQI IARI of ogham inscriptions also appear to be related.[13]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89rainn#cite_note-12> The > personal name *Iar* is simply another variant of the root present in > Iverni and Érainn.[14]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89rainn#cite_note-13> Finally, > the name *Íth*, given in the genealogies as the ultimate ancestor of the > Corcu Loígde (Dáirine) and offering some confusion about their parentage and > relation to the Iverni, in fact preserves the same Indo-European root * > *peiH-* ("to be fat, swell"),[15]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89rainn#cite_note-14> thus > in effect completing a basic picture of the Iverni/Érainn and their kindred > in later historical Ireland. Cú Roí <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%BA_Ro%C3%AD> = Conroy Conaire = Conroy T. F. O'Rahilly <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._F._O%27Rahilly> identified > the Érainn with the mythological Fir Bolg<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fir_Bolg> and > the historical Belgae <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgae> of Gaul<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaul> > and Britain <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Britain>. He proposed > that they invaded from Britain and spoke a Brythonic<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brythonic_languages> language, > which he named Ivernic and identified with a language referred to in a > number of early sources as *Iarnnbélrae*, *Iarnbélrae*, and *Iarmbérla*, > which, if treated as Old Irish <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Irish>, > means "Iron-speech". The 9th-century Irish dictionary *Sanas Cormaic<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanas_Cormaic> > * ("Cormac's glossary") describes *Iarnnbélrae* as a recently extinct > language which was "dense and difficult", and records two words which > derived from it.[4]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89rainn#cite_note-OR-3> However, > by the proto-historical period the Érainn were evidently Goidelic<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goidelic>-speaking, > as evidenced by the fact that ogham <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham> inscriptions > in Primitive Irish <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_Irish> are most > abundant in Counties Cork and Kerry.[16]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89rainn#cite_note-15> More on Cú Roí <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%BA_Ro%C3%AD>: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cú_Roí Cheers, Paul On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 5:32 PM, Paul Conroy <pconroy63@gmail.com> wrote: > Gerry, > > I posted the following about 1 year ago on this list: > > Going back to the original subject, I see more info on "Conaire Mór" > (Conroy the Great) here: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conaire_M%C3%B3r > > Specifically that: > A descendant of Íar mac Dedad<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%8Dar_mac_Dedad>, > Conaire belonged to the legendary Clanna Dedad<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad>, > the legendary royal family of the Érainn<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89rainn>. > His descendants in Ireland and Scotland<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland> were > known as the Síl Conairi <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%ADl_Conairi>. > The last king in the direct male line from Conaire Mór was Alexander III > of Scotland <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_III_of_Scotland>. > > The Clanna Dedad has an interesting geneology:<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conaire_M%C3%B3r> > Descent of the Clanna Dedad > > Skipped generations are given in the notes. > > - Sen mac Rosin<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sen_mac_Rosin&action=edit&redlink=1> > [22] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-21> > - Dedu mac Sin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedu_mac_Sin> a quo *Clanna > Dedad* > - Íar mac Dedad <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%8Dar_mac_Dedad> > - Ailill Anglonnach<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ailill_Anglonnach&action=edit&redlink=1> > - Éogan [23]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-22> > - Eterscél <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etersc%C3%A9l> > - Conaire Mór<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conaire_M%C3%B3r> a > quo *Síl Conaire* > - Mug Láma > - Conaire Cóem<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conaire_C%C3%B3em> > [24]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-23> > - Eochaid (Cairpre) Riata (Rigfhota), a quo > - *Dál Riata<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_Riata> > * > - Erc of Dalriada<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erc_of_Dalriada> > [25]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-24> > - Fergus Mór<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fergus_M%C3%B3r> > - Domangart Réti<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domangart_R%C3%A9ti> > - Gabrán mac Domangairt<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabr%C3%A1n_mac_Domangairt>, > a quo > - *Cenél nGabráin* > - *House of Alpin<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Alpin> > * > - *House of Dunkeld<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Dunkeld> > * > - Comgall mac Domangairt<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comgall_mac_Domangairt>, > a quo > - *Cenél Comgaill* > - Loarn mac Eirc<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loarn_mac_Eirc>, > a quo > - *Cenél Loairn* > - *House of Moray<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Moray> > * > - *Mormaers of Moray<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormaers_of_Moray> > * > - Óengus Mór mac Eirc, a quo > - *Cenél nÓengusa<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cen%C3%A9l_n%C3%93engusa> > * > - Cairpre Músc<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cairpre_M%C3%BAsc&action=edit&redlink=1>, > a quo > - *Múscraige<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BAscraige> > * > - Corc Duibne, a quo > - *Corcu Duibne<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corcu_Duibne> > * > - Cairpre Baschaín, a quo > - *Corcu Baiscind<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corcu_Baiscind> > * > - Dáire mac Dedad<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1ire_mac_Dedad> / > Dairi Sirchrechtaig / Dáire Doimthech<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1ire_Doimthech> > - Cú Roí mac Dáire<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%BA_Ro%C3%AD_mac_D%C3%A1ire> > - Lugaid mac Con Roí<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugaid_mac_Con_Ro%C3%AD> > - Fuirme mac Con Roí [26]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-25> > - (F)Iatach Find<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiatach_Finn>, > a quo > - *Dál Fiatach<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_Fiatach> > * > - *Dáirine <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1irine>* > - *Corcu Loígde<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corcu_Lo%C3%ADgde> > * [27]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-26> > [28]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-27> > - Conganchnes mac Dedad<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conganchnes_mac_Dedad> > - Conall Anglonnach mac Dedad<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Conall_Anglonnach&action=edit&redlink=1> > ,[29] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-28> a > quo > - *Conaille Muirtheimne<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conaille_Muirtheimne> > * > - Eochaid (Echdach/Echach) mac Sin [30]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-29> > - Deitsin/Deitsini > - Dlúthaich/Dluthaig > - Dáire/Dairi > - Fir furmi [31]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-30> > - Fiatach Finn<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiatach_Finn> > [32]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-31> / > Fiachach Fir Umai [33]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-32> > - *Dál Fiatach<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_Fiatach> > * > > > So the Dal Fiatach are actually related to the Dal Riata, both of North > Eastern Ireland. > > They are also related to tribes in the South West of Ireland: > 1. Corcu Duibne - West Co Kerry, Dingle Penninsula and related areas - > O'Shea, O'Falvey and O'Connell > 2. Corcu Loígde - West Co Cork - O'Driscoll (R-M222), Coffey<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffey> > , O'Leary <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Leary>, Hennessy<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hennessy_(disambiguation)> > , Flynn <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn>, Dinneen<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinneen> > . O'Hea <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Hea>, Cronin<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronin> > , Dunlea<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dunlea&action=edit&redlink=1> > 3. Corcu Bascind - South Co Clare - O'Baskin, MacDermot, > O'Donnell/MacDonnell (R-M222), MacMahon > > Cheers, > Paul > > On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Gerry <gerry@ringofgullion.com> wrote: > >> John, >> >> I might be able to shed some light on the Y-DNA of the Dál Fiatach, from >> two >> sources. One is the McEvoy study and the other is some research that Jerry >> Kelly, of this list, has just done for me. >> >> ========================================================================= >> 1) McEvoy et al. >> >> John posted this some time ago which he culled from the McEvoy study: >> Dunleavy Haughey MCGUINNESS >> >> 5 M222 of 12 14 M222 of 19 24 M222 of 99 >> Ulster (1) Most in Ulster Ulster >> (11) >> Leinster (2) Associated with Donegal&Armagh Connacht (10) >> Munster (1) O hEochaidh Leinster >> (3) >> Connacht (1) >> >> I post the McGuinnes just to emphasize what John posted below. They are >> generally not M222, but HG I. >> >> McEvoy normalized all of his names to one spelling. He normalized Haughey >> and McGuinness, so we don't know the original spellings of >> Haughey/Hoey/Hoy. >> >> As John noted above, the Haughey spelling is common in Donegal and Armagh >> while Hoey/Hoy is common in Louth and the surrounding counties. >> >> The Annals say that the Mac Dunveavys were expelled by the Normans from >> Ulidia and some went to Donegal (McInulty sp?). It is also said that some >> of >> the Ó hEochaidh went with them since they were really the same family, >> (see >> Jerry Kelly's work below). >> >> So, if any of McEvoy's M222 Haughey were from Donegal, they were from Dál >> Fiatach, which was their region of Ulidia. This points to the Dál Fiatach >> being M222. >> >> If any of McEvoy's Haughey were from the Louth area, they were really >> Hoey/Hoy/Ó hEochaidh. The Ó hEochaidh were from Dál Fiatach. My family is >> Hoy from mid-Louth and is M222. This points to the Dál Fiatach being M222. >> >> Note. A NPE from say, Donegal for my Louth family, is not likely since my >> M222 matches are half Irish and half Scots, which makes sense for a family >> based near Downptrick. >> >> >> =========================================================================== >> 2) Jerry Kelly's research. >> >> I thrashed around for months trying to understand what the Annals that I >> had >> access to, meant about my family. I gave up and went to Jerry Kelly who is >> a >> fluent Irish speaker and also understands the nuances of the Annals. >> >> He found that the Ó hEochaidh/Mac Duinnshléibhe were on the main branch of >> the Dál Fiatach rulers and that the Mac Duinnshléibhe had barely split >> from >> the Ó hEochaidh before the Normans arrived. >> >> “So for instance when after 1137 the Dal Fiatach kingship was confined >> to the descendants of Donn Sleibe Mac Eochada (slain in 1091), the >> rigdamnai >> set themselves apart from the rest of the family by using the name Mac >> Duinnshleibhe (Donleavy)." Byrne, page 128 >> >> The Ó hEochaidh family, (Sloinne Ó hEochaidh as Jerry taught me) took the >> name from Eochaidh mac Ardghair, who died in 979. Before that it was just >> "son of, son of, ..." >> >> Jerry used the non-translated Irish Annals to trace the line back reliably >> to 455 and less reliably earlier. >> >> So the Ó hEochaidh/Mac Duinnshléibhe line were the ruling family of Dál >> Fiatach back to the time of Patrick. Jerry has another story of how the >> family got to Louth with the help of the O'Loughlins and O'Carrols, but >> that >> is for another time. >> >> ========================================================================== >> >> Conclusion. >> >> With McEvoy's Haugheys and Jerry's work with the Annals and my M222 test >> and >> unusual matches, I pretty sure that the Dál Fiatach were M222, at least on >> the main line. >> >> We also know that in tribal societies, the bottom tier doesn't reproduce >> itself and the top tier over produces. So some people fall down each >> generation and eventually, on the male line, everyone is related. So if >> the >> ruling line is M222, so are all. >> >> Gerry Hoy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lochlan@aol.com >> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 11:58 PM >> To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [R-M222] Cenel Conaill And the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 >> >> Here are a few quotes from Lacey's book. He believes the northern Ui >> Neill >> (Cenel Conaill, Cenel Eoghain and Cenel Enda) did not move north into >> Donegal as stated by all Irish historians but were Cruithin, natives of >> the >> territory. I do not know yet if he ties this into the Venicnii of >> Ptolemy >> (I only have one chapter copied) but he does mention a Winducatti in the >> Dunfanaghy area of Donegal which might be the same tribe. Much of his >> argument is based on Tirechan's Collectanea, dated to 690 AD. He tries >> to >> connect the Cenel Conaill to the Ui Eachach Cobha and the Cenel Eoghain >> to the Dal Fiatach, two familiar tribes from Ulster. In that he seems >> completely off-base. >> >> Can anyone connect M222 to either of these tribes? >> >> The Ui Eachach Cobha in particular were said to be Cruithin as an off >> shoot >> of the Dal nAraidi. The historical chieftains were the Maguinnes of Co. >> Down, whose chieftains were I haplogroup according to Patrick Guinness, >> associated with the Trinity DNA project. If anyone has the slightest >> idea >> what Dal Fiatach DNA looks like I haven't heard about it. >> >> >> >> R1b1c7 Research and Links: >> >> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >

Gerry, I posted the following about 1 year ago on this list: Going back to the original subject, I see more info on "Conaire Mór" (Conroy the Great) here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conaire_M%C3%B3r Specifically that: A descendant of Íar mac Dedad<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%8Dar_mac_Dedad>, Conaire belonged to the legendary Clanna Dedad<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad>, the legendary royal family of the Érainn<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89rainn>. His descendants in Ireland and Scotland<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland> were known as the Síl Conairi <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%ADl_Conairi>. The last king in the direct male line from Conaire Mór was Alexander III of Scotland <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_III_of_Scotland>. The Clanna Dedad has an interesting geneology:<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conaire_M%C3%B3r> Descent of the Clanna Dedad Skipped generations are given in the notes. - Sen mac Rosin<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sen_mac_Rosin&action=edit&redlink=1> [22] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-21> - Dedu mac Sin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedu_mac_Sin> a quo *Clanna Dedad* - Íar mac Dedad <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%8Dar_mac_Dedad> - Ailill Anglonnach<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ailill_Anglonnach&action=edit&redlink=1> - Éogan [23]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-22> - Eterscél <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etersc%C3%A9l> - Conaire Mór<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conaire_M%C3%B3r> a quo *Síl Conaire* - Mug Láma - Conaire Cóem<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conaire_C%C3%B3em> [24]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-23> - Eochaid (Cairpre) Riata (Rigfhota), a quo - *Dál Riata<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_Riata> * - Erc of Dalriada<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erc_of_Dalriada> [25]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-24> - Fergus Mór<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fergus_M%C3%B3r> - Domangart Réti<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domangart_R%C3%A9ti> - Gabrán mac Domangairt<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabr%C3%A1n_mac_Domangairt>, a quo - *Cenél nGabráin* - *House of Alpin<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Alpin> * - *House of Dunkeld<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Dunkeld> * - Comgall mac Domangairt<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comgall_mac_Domangairt>, a quo - *Cenél Comgaill* - Loarn mac Eirc<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loarn_mac_Eirc>, a quo - *Cenél Loairn* - *House of Moray<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Moray> * - *Mormaers of Moray<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormaers_of_Moray> * - Óengus Mór mac Eirc, a quo - *Cenél nÓengusa<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cen%C3%A9l_n%C3%93engusa> * - Cairpre Músc<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cairpre_M%C3%BAsc&action=edit&redlink=1>, a quo - *Múscraige<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BAscraige> * - Corc Duibne, a quo - *Corcu Duibne<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corcu_Duibne> * - Cairpre Baschaín, a quo - *Corcu Baiscind<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corcu_Baiscind> * - Dáire mac Dedad<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1ire_mac_Dedad> / Dairi Sirchrechtaig / Dáire Doimthech<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1ire_Doimthech> - Cú Roí mac Dáire<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%BA_Ro%C3%AD_mac_D%C3%A1ire> - Lugaid mac Con Roí<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugaid_mac_Con_Ro%C3%AD> - Fuirme mac Con Roí [26]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-25> - (F)Iatach Find<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiatach_Finn>, a quo - *Dál Fiatach<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_Fiatach> * - *Dáirine <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1irine>* - *Corcu Loígde<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corcu_Lo%C3%ADgde> * [27]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-26> [28] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-27> - Conganchnes mac Dedad<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conganchnes_mac_Dedad> - Conall Anglonnach mac Dedad<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Conall_Anglonnach&action=edit&redlink=1> ,[29] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-28> a quo - *Conaille Muirtheimne<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conaille_Muirtheimne> * - Eochaid (Echdach/Echach) mac Sin [30]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-29> - Deitsin/Deitsini - Dlúthaich/Dluthaig - Dáire/Dairi - Fir furmi [31]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-30> - Fiatach Finn<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiatach_Finn> [32]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-31> / Fiachach Fir Umai [33]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanna_Dedad#cite_note-32> - *Dál Fiatach<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_Fiatach> * So the Dal Fiatach are actually related to the Dal Riata, both of North Eastern Ireland. They are also related to tribes in the South West of Ireland: 1. Corcu Duibne - West Co Kerry, Dingle Penninsula and related areas - O'Shea, O'Falvey and O'Connell 2. Corcu Loígde - West Co Cork - O'Driscoll (R-M222), Coffey<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffey> , O'Leary <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Leary>, Hennessy<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hennessy_(disambiguation)> , Flynn <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn>, Dinneen<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinneen> . O'Hea <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Hea>, Cronin<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronin> , Dunlea<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dunlea&action=edit&redlink=1> 3. Corcu Bascind - South Co Clare - O'Baskin, MacDermot, O'Donnell/MacDonnell (R-M222), MacMahon Cheers, Paul On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Gerry <gerry@ringofgullion.com> wrote: > John, > > I might be able to shed some light on the Y-DNA of the Dál Fiatach, from > two > sources. One is the McEvoy study and the other is some research that Jerry > Kelly, of this list, has just done for me. > > ========================================================================= > 1) McEvoy et al. > > John posted this some time ago which he culled from the McEvoy study: > Dunleavy Haughey MCGUINNESS > > 5 M222 of 12 14 M222 of 19 24 M222 of 99 > Ulster (1) Most in Ulster Ulster (11) > Leinster (2) Associated with Donegal&Armagh Connacht (10) > Munster (1) O hEochaidh Leinster > (3) > Connacht (1) > > I post the McGuinnes just to emphasize what John posted below. They are > generally not M222, but HG I. > > McEvoy normalized all of his names to one spelling. He normalized Haughey > and McGuinness, so we don't know the original spellings of > Haughey/Hoey/Hoy. > > As John noted above, the Haughey spelling is common in Donegal and Armagh > while Hoey/Hoy is common in Louth and the surrounding counties. > > The Annals say that the Mac Dunveavys were expelled by the Normans from > Ulidia and some went to Donegal (McInulty sp?). It is also said that some > of > the Ó hEochaidh went with them since they were really the same family, (see > Jerry Kelly's work below). > > So, if any of McEvoy's M222 Haughey were from Donegal, they were from Dál > Fiatach, which was their region of Ulidia. This points to the Dál Fiatach > being M222. > > If any of McEvoy's Haughey were from the Louth area, they were really > Hoey/Hoy/Ó hEochaidh. The Ó hEochaidh were from Dál Fiatach. My family is > Hoy from mid-Louth and is M222. This points to the Dál Fiatach being M222. > > Note. A NPE from say, Donegal for my Louth family, is not likely since my > M222 matches are half Irish and half Scots, which makes sense for a family > based near Downptrick. > > =========================================================================== > 2) Jerry Kelly's research. > > I thrashed around for months trying to understand what the Annals that I > had > access to, meant about my family. I gave up and went to Jerry Kelly who is > a > fluent Irish speaker and also understands the nuances of the Annals. > > He found that the Ó hEochaidh/Mac Duinnshléibhe were on the main branch of > the Dál Fiatach rulers and that the Mac Duinnshléibhe had barely split from > the Ó hEochaidh before the Normans arrived. > > “So for instance when after 1137 the Dal Fiatach kingship was confined > to the descendants of Donn Sleibe Mac Eochada (slain in 1091), the > rigdamnai > set themselves apart from the rest of the family by using the name Mac > Duinnshleibhe (Donleavy)." Byrne, page 128 > > The Ó hEochaidh family, (Sloinne Ó hEochaidh as Jerry taught me) took the > name from Eochaidh mac Ardghair, who died in 979. Before that it was just > "son of, son of, ..." > > Jerry used the non-translated Irish Annals to trace the line back reliably > to 455 and less reliably earlier. > > So the Ó hEochaidh/Mac Duinnshléibhe line were the ruling family of Dál > Fiatach back to the time of Patrick. Jerry has another story of how the > family got to Louth with the help of the O'Loughlins and O'Carrols, but > that > is for another time. > > ========================================================================== > > Conclusion. > > With McEvoy's Haugheys and Jerry's work with the Annals and my M222 test > and > unusual matches, I pretty sure that the Dál Fiatach were M222, at least on > the main line. > > We also know that in tribal societies, the bottom tier doesn't reproduce > itself and the top tier over produces. So some people fall down each > generation and eventually, on the male line, everyone is related. So if the > ruling line is M222, so are all. > > Gerry Hoy > > -----Original Message----- > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lochlan@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 11:58 PM > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: [R-M222] Cenel Conaill And the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 > > Here are a few quotes from Lacey's book. He believes the northern Ui > Neill > (Cenel Conaill, Cenel Eoghain and Cenel Enda) did not move north into > Donegal as stated by all Irish historians but were Cruithin, natives of > the > territory. I do not know yet if he ties this into the Venicnii of > Ptolemy > (I only have one chapter copied) but he does mention a Winducatti in the > Dunfanaghy area of Donegal which might be the same tribe. Much of his > argument is based on Tirechan's Collectanea, dated to 690 AD. He tries to > connect the Cenel Conaill to the Ui Eachach Cobha and the Cenel Eoghain > to the Dal Fiatach, two familiar tribes from Ulster. In that he seems > completely off-base. > > Can anyone connect M222 to either of these tribes? > > The Ui Eachach Cobha in particular were said to be Cruithin as an off > shoot > of the Dal nAraidi. The historical chieftains were the Maguinnes of Co. > Down, whose chieftains were I haplogroup according to Patrick Guinness, > associated with the Trinity DNA project. If anyone has the slightest idea > what Dal Fiatach DNA looks like I haven't heard about it. > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

John, BTW, I just noticed something in your link to Connachta Clans: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/connachta.htm It lists: *McConroi = King* This Gaelic name is also translated as "*Conroy*" of course, as well as Conry, Connery and so on. Did you compile this list yourself or got it from some other source? More here: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Conroy/default.aspx?section=ycolorized Cheers, Paul On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Bernard Morgan <bernardmorgan@hotmail.com>wrote: > > > Here are a few quotes from Lacey's book. He believes the northern Ui > > Neill (Cenel Conaill, Cenel Eoghain and Cenel Enda) did not move north > into > > Donegal as stated by all Irish historians but were Cruithin, > > One way to answer to the question is whether they share the same mutation. > > In ysearch.org sometime back I found Conlon NM4WF from Belfield, Co. > Westmeath who is M222+. Belfield is near Gaybrook and is within the former > lands of Clann Enna mac Laoghaire. The O'Conlon (O Caindelbain) are the > senior branch of Clann Enda mac Laogaire and of Cenel Laogaire in Midi. So > is Cenel Laogaire of the Southern Ui Neill M222+? > > > > From a DNA standpoint, I'm not sure we can yet say the northern and > > southern Ui Neill were related by blood in descent from Niall. Most of > the DNA > > we possess is either Connachta or northern Ui Neill in origin. Or just > plain > > of unknown origin. There is some in the south, O'Mulloys and Geoghegans, > > I think the Trinity study largely skipped over southern Ui Neill > surnames. > > In the following list I only see a few that might be southern Ui Neill. > > > > (O’)Gallagher (12), > > (O’)Boyle (9), (O’)Doherty (5), O’Donnell (4), O’Connor (3), Cannon > > (3), Bradley (2), O’Reilly (2), Flynn (2), (Mc)Kee (2), Campbell (1), > > Devlin (1), Donnelly (1), Egan (1), Gormley (1), Hynes (1), McCaul > > (1), McGovern (1), McLoughlin (1), McManus (1), McMenamin (1), > > Molloy (1), O’Kane (1), O’Rourke (1), and Quinn (1). > > > > Molloy might be one. McLoughlin another if the O Mailsechlainns of Meath > > were targeted. But that also could be MacLochlainn of Donegal. > > The Trinity report did not investigate the existance of M222+ amongst the > Southern Ui Neill? > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks very much, Jerry. Regards, Bob Bob Quinn President&CEO Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable 27 Langton Lane Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 T:610-331-4920 e-mail:raaq@live.com Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:42:38 -0700 > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe > > Bob a chara, > > MacLysaght is still under copyright buy Sloinnte Gaedheal Is Gall (Surnames of the Gaeil and Gaill) by an t-Athair Pádraig de Bhulbh (Fr. Patrick Woulfe) is available at: > > http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php > > An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, but excellent nevertheless. > > Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, > Jerry > > Treibheanna Éireannacha > www.irishtribes.com > > > --- On Mon, 8/22/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> wrote: > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí Néill? > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 12:38 PM > > > > Thank you, Gerry. Is there any way to get McLysacht's read > > on names other than to buy the book? I had no luck on > > the Internet. Regards, Bob > > > > Bob Quinn > > President&CEO > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > 27 Langton Lane > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > T:610-331-4920 > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:17:21 -0700 > > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - > > truly Uí Néill? > > > > > > Bob a chara, > > > > > > Someone may have answered this already but Quinn is > > short for X Cuinn / X of Conn. Cuinn is the genitive > > of Conn, a grammatical way to say 'of Conn'. Mac Cuinn > > would be Son of Conn. Ó Cuinn would be Grandson of > > Conn. But the 'of' part is in Cuinn, not in Mac or > > Ó. > > > > > > Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, > > > Jerry > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí > > Néill? > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 2:23 PM > > > > > > > > Would like to know his opinion. Everyone else > > thinks it is > > > > Son of Conn. > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > President&CEO > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > > Partners > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:52:05 +0100 > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly > > Uí > > > > Néill? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Bob > > > > > > > > > > Do you or anyone else know what McLysacht > > gives for > > > > the derivation of the > > > > > surname Quinn? > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Bob Quinn > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 16:29 > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly > > Uí > > > > Néill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 15, 12,12, on DYS 19,439,442. > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > > Partners > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: raaq@live.com > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:06:30 -0400 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - > > truly Uí > > > > Néill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in any resource for > > Haplotypes of > > > > the early Celts, so I'll > > > > > be watching for feedback. I am included in > > R-M222 and > > > > my Quinns/Murphys are > > > > > from Armagh. The Davidski studies indicate a > > higher > > > > Scandinavain component > > > > > for me than for most Irish. Does this mean > > anything to > > > > anybody? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay > > Street > > > > Partners > > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's > > Roundtable > > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:48:52 > > +0100 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine > > - truly > > > > Uí Néill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bernard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think the MagCargamni is a > > candidate > > > > for the origins of > > > > > McHarg/Mac > > > > > > > Giolla Chairge? Also, can you > > point me to > > > > his haplotype? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found an interesting match > > between > > > > Ewing and a Quinn, with matches > > > > > at > > > > > > > DYS 19,439,442 = 15,13,11. I don't > > think the > > > > Quinn is from O'Quin > > > > > though. I > > > > > > > think he's from Mackquein, which > > may be from > > > > McEwen of Ottir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > > > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 07:04 > > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine > > - truly > > > > Uí Néill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course I have a vested interest > > in > > > > understanding Cenel Maine, however > > > > > I > > > > > > > hadn't taken the step to > > investigate the > > > > claim against Cenel Maine. > > > > > Brynes’s > > > > > > > argument - that Cenel Maine has > > conflicting > > > > pedigree and that closeness > > > > > to > > > > > > > Ui Maine means that they are Ui > > Maine Fails. > > > > For Dobbs shows that "Cenel > > > > > > > Maine" originates in a seperate > > location > > > > distant from Ui Maine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, > > please send an > > > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please > > send an > > > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > > email to > > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > the > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > > email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > the > > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > > subject and the body of the message > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

John, I might be able to shed some light on the Y-DNA of the Dál Fiatach, from two sources. One is the McEvoy study and the other is some research that Jerry Kelly, of this list, has just done for me. ========================================================================= 1) McEvoy et al. John posted this some time ago which he culled from the McEvoy study: Dunleavy Haughey MCGUINNESS 5 M222 of 12 14 M222 of 19 24 M222 of 99 Ulster (1) Most in Ulster Ulster (11) Leinster (2) Associated with Donegal&Armagh Connacht (10) Munster (1) O hEochaidh Leinster (3) Connacht (1) I post the McGuinnes just to emphasize what John posted below. They are generally not M222, but HG I. McEvoy normalized all of his names to one spelling. He normalized Haughey and McGuinness, so we don't know the original spellings of Haughey/Hoey/Hoy. As John noted above, the Haughey spelling is common in Donegal and Armagh while Hoey/Hoy is common in Louth and the surrounding counties. The Annals say that the Mac Dunveavys were expelled by the Normans from Ulidia and some went to Donegal (McInulty sp?). It is also said that some of the Ó hEochaidh went with them since they were really the same family, (see Jerry Kelly's work below). So, if any of McEvoy's M222 Haughey were from Donegal, they were from Dál Fiatach, which was their region of Ulidia. This points to the Dál Fiatach being M222. If any of McEvoy's Haughey were from the Louth area, they were really Hoey/Hoy/Ó hEochaidh. The Ó hEochaidh were from Dál Fiatach. My family is Hoy from mid-Louth and is M222. This points to the Dál Fiatach being M222. Note. A NPE from say, Donegal for my Louth family, is not likely since my M222 matches are half Irish and half Scots, which makes sense for a family based near Downptrick. =========================================================================== 2) Jerry Kelly's research. I thrashed around for months trying to understand what the Annals that I had access to, meant about my family. I gave up and went to Jerry Kelly who is a fluent Irish speaker and also understands the nuances of the Annals. He found that the Ó hEochaidh/Mac Duinnshléibhe were on the main branch of the Dál Fiatach rulers and that the Mac Duinnshléibhe had barely split from the Ó hEochaidh before the Normans arrived. “So for instance when after 1137 the Dal Fiatach kingship was confined to the descendants of Donn Sleibe Mac Eochada (slain in 1091), the rigdamnai set themselves apart from the rest of the family by using the name Mac Duinnshleibhe (Donleavy)." Byrne, page 128 The Ó hEochaidh family, (Sloinne Ó hEochaidh as Jerry taught me) took the name from Eochaidh mac Ardghair, who died in 979. Before that it was just "son of, son of, ..." Jerry used the non-translated Irish Annals to trace the line back reliably to 455 and less reliably earlier. So the Ó hEochaidh/Mac Duinnshléibhe line were the ruling family of Dál Fiatach back to the time of Patrick. Jerry has another story of how the family got to Louth with the help of the O'Loughlins and O'Carrols, but that is for another time. ========================================================================== Conclusion. With McEvoy's Haugheys and Jerry's work with the Annals and my M222 test and unusual matches, I pretty sure that the Dál Fiatach were M222, at least on the main line. We also know that in tribal societies, the bottom tier doesn't reproduce itself and the top tier over produces. So some people fall down each generation and eventually, on the male line, everyone is related. So if the ruling line is M222, so are all. Gerry Hoy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lochlan@aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 11:58 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: [R-M222] Cenel Conaill And the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800 Here are a few quotes from Lacey's book. He believes the northern Ui Neill (Cenel Conaill, Cenel Eoghain and Cenel Enda) did not move north into Donegal as stated by all Irish historians but were Cruithin, natives of the territory. I do not know yet if he ties this into the Venicnii of Ptolemy (I only have one chapter copied) but he does mention a Winducatti in the Dunfanaghy area of Donegal which might be the same tribe. Much of his argument is based on Tirechan's Collectanea, dated to 690 AD. He tries to connect the Cenel Conaill to the Ui Eachach Cobha and the Cenel Eoghain to the Dal Fiatach, two familiar tribes from Ulster. In that he seems completely off-base. Can anyone connect M222 to either of these tribes? The Ui Eachach Cobha in particular were said to be Cruithin as an off shoot of the Dal nAraidi. The historical chieftains were the Maguinnes of Co. Down, whose chieftains were I haplogroup according to Patrick Guinness, associated with the Trinity DNA project. If anyone has the slightest idea what Dal Fiatach DNA looks like I haven't heard about it.

Bob a chara, MacLysaght is still under copyright buy Sloinnte Gaedheal Is Gall (Surnames of the Gaeil and Gaill) by an t-Athair Pádraig de Bhulbh (Fr. Patrick Woulfe) is available at: http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, but excellent nevertheless. Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, Jerry Treibheanna Éireannacha www.irishtribes.com --- On Mon, 8/22/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> wrote: > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí Néill? > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 12:38 PM > > Thank you, Gerry. Is there any way to get McLysacht's read > on names other than to buy the book? I had no  luck on > the Internet. Regards, Bob > > Bob Quinn > President&CEO > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > 27 Langton Lane > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > T:610-331-4920 > e-mail:raaq@live.com > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals >   > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:17:21 -0700 > > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [R-M222]    Cenél Maine - > truly Uí Néill? > > > > Bob a chara, > > > > Someone may have answered this already but Quinn is > short for X Cuinn / X of Conn.  Cuinn is the genitive > of Conn, a grammatical way to say 'of Conn'.  Mac Cuinn > would be Son of Conn.  Ó Cuinn would be Grandson of > Conn.  But the 'of' part is in Cuinn, not in Mac or > Ó.  > > > > Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, > > Jerry > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > wrote: > > > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí > Néill? > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 2:23 PM > > > > > > Would like to know his opinion. Everyone else > thinks it is > > > Son of Conn. > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > President&CEO > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > Partners > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > >    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:52:05 +0100 > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly > Uí > > > Néill? > > > > > > > > Thanks Bob > > > > > > > > Do you or anyone else know what McLysacht > gives for > > > the derivation of the > > > > surname Quinn? > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > On Behalf Of Bob Quinn > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 16:29 > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly > Uí > > > Néill? > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 15, 12,12, on DYS 19,439,442. > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > President&CEO > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > Partners > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > >    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > From: raaq@live.com > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:06:30 -0400 > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - > truly Uí > > > Néill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in any resource for > Haplotypes of > > > the early Celts, so I'll > > > > be watching for feedback. I am included in > R-M222 and > > > my Quinns/Murphys are > > > > from Armagh. The Davidski studies indicate a > higher > > > Scandinavain component > > > > for me than for most Irish. Does this mean > anything to > > > anybody? > > > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > > President&CEO > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay > Street > > > Partners > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's > Roundtable > > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > >    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:48:52 > +0100 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine > - truly > > > Uí Néill? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bernard > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think the MagCargamni is a > candidate > > > for the origins of > > > > McHarg/Mac > > > > > > Giolla Chairge? Also, can you > point me to > > > his haplotype? > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found an interesting match > between > > > Ewing and a Quinn, with matches > > > > at > > > > > > DYS 19,439,442 = 15,13,11. I don't > think the > > > Quinn is from O'Quin > > > > though. I > > > > > > think he's from Mackquein, which > may be from > > > McEwen of Ottir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > >    > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 07:04 > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine > - truly > > > Uí Néill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > > >  > > > > > > Of course I have a vested interest > in > > > understanding Cenel Maine, however > > > > I > > > > > > hadn't taken the step to > investigate the > > > claim against Cenel Maine. > > > > Brynes’s > > > > > > argument - that Cenel Maine has > conflicting > > > pedigree and that closeness > > > > to > > > > > > Ui Maine means that they are Ui > Maine Fails. > > > For Dobbs shows that "Cenel > > > > > > Maine" originates in a seperate > location > > > distant from Ui Maine. > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, > please send an > > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > >      > > >          > > >            > > >    > > > > >  R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please > send an > > > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > >      > > >          > > >            > > >    > > > >  R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > > > > > > > > >  R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the > > > subject and the body of the message > > >      > > >          > > >            > > >    > > >  R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the > > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > >  R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >     >          >            >   > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >

Thank you, Gerry. Is there any way to get McLysacht's read on names other than to buy the book? I had no luck on the Internet. Regards, Bob Bob Quinn President&CEO Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable 27 Langton Lane Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 T:610-331-4920 e-mail:raaq@live.com Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:17:21 -0700 > From: jerrykelly@irishtribes.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí Néill? > > Bob a chara, > > Someone may have answered this already but Quinn is short for X Cuinn / X of Conn. Cuinn is the genitive of Conn, a grammatical way to say 'of Conn'. Mac Cuinn would be Son of Conn. Ó Cuinn would be Grandson of Conn. But the 'of' part is in Cuinn, not in Mac or Ó. > > Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, > Jerry > > > > --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> wrote: > > > From: Bob Quinn <raaq@live.com> > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí Néill? > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 2:23 PM > > > > Would like to know his opinion. Everyone else thinks it is > > Son of Conn. > > > > Bob Quinn > > President&CEO > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > 27 Langton Lane > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > T:610-331-4920 > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:52:05 +0100 > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí > > Néill? > > > > > > Thanks Bob > > > > > > Do you or anyone else know what McLysacht gives for > > the derivation of the > > > surname Quinn? > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > On Behalf Of Bob Quinn > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 16:29 > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí > > Néill? > > > > > > > > > I have 15, 12,12, on DYS 19,439,442. > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > President&CEO > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: raaq@live.com > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:06:30 -0400 > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí > > Néill? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in any resource for Haplotypes of > > the early Celts, so I'll > > > be watching for feedback. I am included in R-M222 and > > my Quinns/Murphys are > > > from Armagh. The Davidski studies indicate a higher > > Scandinavain component > > > for me than for most Irish. Does this mean anything to > > anybody? > > > > > > > > Bob Quinn > > > > President&CEO > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > > > > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street > > Partners > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > > > > 27 Langton Lane > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > > > > T:610-331-4920 > > > > e-mail:raaq@live.com > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:48:52 +0100 > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly > > Uí Néill? > > > > > > > > > > Bernard > > > > > > > > > > Do you think the MagCargamni is a candidate > > for the origins of > > > McHarg/Mac > > > > > Giolla Chairge? Also, can you point me to > > his haplotype? > > > > > > > > > > I've found an interesting match between > > Ewing and a Quinn, with matches > > > at > > > > > DYS 19,439,442 = 15,13,11. I don't think the > > Quinn is from O'Quin > > > though. I > > > > > think he's from Mackquein, which may be from > > McEwen of Ottir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 07:04 > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7 > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly > > Uí Néill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > > > > > > > Of course I have a vested interest in > > understanding Cenel Maine, however > > > I > > > > > hadn't taken the step to investigate the > > claim against Cenel Maine. > > > Brynes’s > > > > > argument - that Cenel Maine has conflicting > > pedigree and that closeness > > > to > > > > > Ui Maine means that they are Ui Maine Fails. > > For Dobbs shows that "Cenel > > > > > Maine" originates in a seperate location > > distant from Ui Maine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > > email to > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > > email to > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > > subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > > subject and the body of the message > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message