http://www.billmacafee.com/1630musterrolls/1630musterrollsderry.pdf 1630 Muster Rolls for Estates in Co. Londonderry [D1759/3/C/2 or MIC637/10] [Sorted by Surname and Estate] Record No. Surname [Standardised] Surname as spelt in Muster Rolls Forename Estate (Chief Tenant) Barony Surname listed in 1622 Dunbar William City & Liberties of Londonderry N. W. Liberties of Londonderry 57 Duncan Dunkan Archibald City & Liberties of Londonderry N. W. Liberties of Londonderry 175 Duncan Dunkin James City & Liberties of Londonderry N. W. Liberties of Londonderry 1742 Duncan Dunkin Wm Thomas Phillips, Limavady Keenaght 1748 Duncan Dunkan Alexander Thomas Phillips, Limavady Keenagh

Larry, We don't yet know the answer to the question as there is a marker (S668) on Chromo2 that may be directly equivalent to DF97. The only way we will resolve it is if people test Chromo2 and are also DF97+. >From the point of view of the M222 diagram I'm maintaining I would personally want to be very sure the two markers in question are equivalent before I merge the two sub-branches if only because it would be a right pain to have to de-merge them later. And that needs lots of people to test. Iain http://www.kennedydna.com/M222.pdf > Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 06:17:14 -0600 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: [R-M222] Chromo2 and DF97 > > For those keeping track, I mailed my vial of spit back to Nottingham for the Chromo2 test on October 23. > > Also, I was DF85+ at FTDNA but didn't order DF97 at the time. From what I've gathered from the list (and I haven't been following terribly closely the past few weeks as fatigue has set in), Chromo2 doesn't test DF97. Is there much value in going ahead with the DF97, or should I just wait to see what the Chromo2 test tells us? Thanks. > > Larry > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

David, You are correct, and I absolutely agree; and because of your impeccable scientific credentials your sharing in forum these realities is greatly appreciated. As some may remember, when I brought up the reality of BISDNA private labeling SNPs and mentioning their history of little to no transparency as well as sensationalizing theory for commercial reasons, I was accused of being negative and complaining. None the less, as distasteful as the BIS competitive practices may be, and it does indeed annoy me to no end, it is what it is and we are rather stuck with it if we want to further these investigations now rather than wait for FTDNA to figure it out and incorporate all of these SNPs in their single SNP testing program so that that we and others could conduct specifically targeted inquiry. To further this to some extent, we also do not know what and/or how many of these SNPs have turned up in the full Y sequencing of those M222 who have completed that process via FG. I have been met with silence in regard to inquiry about this, and the two we know who have completed with results have not shared information beyond confirming that within their results were df85 negative status; hence, BIS is not alone regarding the transparency issues. There is a 3rd who is awaiting his results, and we can only hope that he will share information where the other two have not. As mentioned previously, they certainly are not beholden to share their information; however, if the testing is in line with researching for M222, one must also ask what the prohibition to sharing with us is beyond speculatively desiring positioning for possible publishing and/or commercial enterprise. Susan On 11/6/2013 10:44 AM, David Maclennan wrote: > Larry, your comments illustrate exactly the problem I raised a few weeks > ago about the lack of transparency from the companies selling these tests. > Sandy went on to investigate and eked out the information that DF85 is in > the Chromo2 test under a different name and that S668 and DF97 are > different SNPs. On that basis, I did order DF97 and Chromo2 at the end of > October. > There is really no reason for this confusion - it would appear to be an > obfuscation to prevent competitors from reproducing data. A SNP is a > single nucleotide polymorphism. However, it does not exist in isolation, > but in the context of its surrounding sequence. The "critical" surrounding > sequence provides two unique sequences, minimally about 15 bases long, one > on either side of the SNP. These sequences provide information for the > synthesis of two "complementary primer sequences" that hybridize on either > side of the SNP site and allow the short segment between the primers to be > amplified thousands of times so that it can be sequenced and the > polymorphic SNP site identified after comparison of multiple human > sequences. Once this SNP site is shown to be reproducibly polymorphic, it > can be synthesized on a chip and analyzed in a different way. > The point is that if the sequences surrounding and including the unique > primer sites become publicly available, then anyone with access to > analysis of the publicly funded human genome sequence can directly compare > the differently named SNPs. > David > > >

YEP...it really is unfortunate that the df97 did not make the Chromo2 chip, because being 2 separate SNPs as we've discussed previously, for these M222 populations who test positive for both df85 (S675 and by Wilson's draft tree of M222+ possibly ancestral to S668) and df97 (not represented on Chromo2 but speculatively in the neighborhood of S668) df97's disposition in relation to S668 may be further enlightening in helping us determine which lineages belong to what groups and where divergence between the groups may be. I see this as a primary important reason for the df85+ df97- and the df85+ df97+ in addition to the df85- result holders to test Chromo2. Furthermore since S673, and S675 (df85) are seemingly separate SNPs, with sufficient numbers of tests we may be able to determine whether or not both SNPs will be found within all who test positive for df85 or if there is separation of them (S673 from S675) among the results and if S668 is more directly associated with one of them--either S673 or S675--or if both are present among those who test positive for S668. I see the importance in being able to determine this in light of migration in addition to which groups may belong to who. I'm hoping that these explanations underpin the need to test. If there were ever a question of "should I? or should I not? test Chromo2" IMO the latter should be disregarded. We need testing in sufficient numbers to attempt know these things in best clarity. In particular, we need Chromo2 results from the O'Dochartaigh (the Doherty/O'Doherty groups)---several results---and from the different branches as seen within their project pages reflecting the different haplotype affinities. Susan Hedeen On 11/6/2013 9:00 AM, Iain Kennedy wrote: > Hi Sandy, > > Thanks for the extra clarification - that sounds a bit like the public domain Gates snr and jnr genomes. Hopefully the first few samples will demonstrate this and they can be formally merged. > > best > > Iain > > > > >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 13:31:33 +0000 >> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Chromo2 and DF97 >> >> Hi Iain, >> >> According to Jim Wilson, one person had 2 mutations compared to his father. >> One of the mutations was S668 and the other was DF97. So in the sense that >> everyone with S668 also has DF97, they can be taken as equivalent, but they >> are actually two separate mutations that occurred in the same person. >> >> Best, >> >> Sandy >> >> >> >> >>

UlsterHeritage.com - All Things Ulster - Plantation of Londonderry English names were not highlighted in bold This book contains the names of hundreds of British settlers and native Irish from the early seventeenth century, which will be of enormous interest to genealogists, family and local historians alike. In this volume, there is a transcript of the Summonister Court Rolls for County Londonderry, which are extant for the period 1615-1670 (Appendix 2). The rolls appear to be fairly intact apart from a lengthy interval from 1641-1653, which reflects the impact of the native rising upon administration. The rolls are a useful source of surnames containing as they do, hundreds of names (629 variant surnames) of those English, Scots and Irish who came to the attention of the courts and provide a local window through which we can view life in seventeenth century Londonderry. The 1630 muster roll lists the names of 1,930 British men of arms-bearing age ... PART TWO – THE PLANTATION OF LONDONDERRY, c.1600-1670 ... surnames of Scotland')ASHLEYDUNKAN, DUNKIN,McCONAGHIE Although the early plantation was undoubtedly English in character, Londonderry was attractive to the Scottish In his history of the Londonderry plantation, Mr. Forrest attempts to trace the origins and development of the Scottish colony in Londonderry in the early seventeenth century. Londonderry was attractive to the Scottish given its close proximity and the ease of mobility given the trade links that had been developed between the ports of Derry and Coleraine with Scotland’s western seaboard. Mr. Forrest traces several migratory waves of Scots colonists during the seventeenth century. Many of the settlers were, undoubtedly, economic migrants forced to leave Scotland with its expanding population, rising prices and rising unemployment. The increasing numbers of Scots, especially from 1630, was vital to the maintenance of the plantation. The response of the rural inhabitants in Scotland to the Plantation was in sharp contrast to that in rural England where relatively few people opted to move to Ulster. The surveys of 1619 and 1622 reveal that the English settlement was small and in decline even before the devastating impact of the native uprising in 1641. The diminution of the English colony contrasts significantly with rise of the Scottish presence. Mr. Forrest argues that without the continuous migration of Scottish settlers, the Londonderry plantation would undoubtedly have failed. However, by the end of the seventeenth century a self sustaining settlement of British colonists (primarily Scots-Irish) had established itself in the county. Lord Belmont In Northern Ireland lordbelmontinnorthernireland.blogspot.com/ - Similar to Lord Belmont In Northern Ireland .. The title expired in 1634, on Lord Powerscourt's demise, without issue; but was conferred, in 1665, on his male heir, .... To the north formal tree plantations framed the vista from the house, .... Thomas Ridgeway, Earl of Londonderry .... The son-in-law of the 3rd Marquess, Lord Ashley, heir to the 7th Earl of ...

> Larry Slavens > > Kit Number: 6897 > > Test: DF97 Thanks Larry ;-) Linda

Hi Larry, There are those here who ask that if somebody tests DF85+ then they really should also test for DF97, as to whether - or +. Apparently the Chromo2 test does not include DF97, but that has become a matter of interest here, too. I am waiting for my own DF85 results, and am now about to send payment for a Chromo2 test. So come on and join the party! The good news is that all of this testing only needs to be done once, and that is all. But in that way we all get to help fill out the M222 tree. Yep, that takes you, me and all of us. Doug On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 7:17 AM, Larry Slavens <[email protected]>wrote: > For those keeping track, I mailed my vial of spit back to Nottingham for > the Chromo2 test on October 23. > > Also, I was DF85+ at FTDNA but didn't order DF97 at the time. From what > I've gathered from the list (and I haven't been following terribly closely > the past few weeks as fatigue has set in), Chromo2 doesn't test DF97. Is > there much value in going ahead with the DF97, or should I just wait to see > what the Chromo2 test tells us? Thanks. > > Larry > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Done. -----Original Message----- >From: tuulen <[email protected]> >Sent: Nov 6, 2013 6:33 AM >To: Larry Slavens <[email protected]>, [email protected] >Subject: Re: [R-M222] Chromo2 and DF97 > >Hi Larry, > >There are those here who ask that if somebody tests DF85+ then they really >should also test for DF97, as to whether - or +. Apparently the Chromo2 >test does not include DF97, but that has become a matter of interest here, >too. I am waiting for my own DF85 results, and am now about to send >payment for a Chromo2 test. So come on and join the party! The good news >is that all of this testing only needs to be done once, and that is all. > But in that way we all get to help fill out the M222 tree. Yep, that >takes you, me and all of us. > >Doug > > >On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 7:17 AM, Larry Slavens <[email protected]>wrote: > >> For those keeping track, I mailed my vial of spit back to Nottingham for >> the Chromo2 test on October 23. >> >> Also, I was DF85+ at FTDNA but didn't order DF97 at the time. From what >> I've gathered from the list (and I haven't been following terribly closely >> the past few weeks as fatigue has set in), Chromo2 doesn't test DF97. Is >> there much value in going ahead with the DF97, or should I just wait to see >> what the Chromo2 test tells us? Thanks. >> >> Larry

For those keeping track, I mailed my vial of spit back to Nottingham for the Chromo2 test on October 23. Also, I was DF85+ at FTDNA but didn't order DF97 at the time. From what I've gathered from the list (and I haven't been following terribly closely the past few weeks as fatigue has set in), Chromo2 doesn't test DF97. Is there much value in going ahead with the DF97, or should I just wait to see what the Chromo2 test tells us? Thanks. Larry

36864....Gary Alan STRAIN....DF97 (already DF85+)

Hello all, David Ewing hasn't been active in the forum for a while. If anyone has contact with him, I'd appreciate it if the anyone would ask David to contact me at [email protected] and please point out the single 't' because I think David still has me as 'tt'. Many thanks, Sandy

> Dear R-M222 Group Administrator, > > The following project member ordered an additional product: > > M. Richard Mitchell > > Kit Number: 14745 > > Test: DF85, DF97 Thanks very much for your order. Been a long dry spell ;-)

Paul, Thanks for posting this - I have a more recent vintage ancestor (2nd ggm) who seems to be Alice (as her son named his second Daughter Alice - first daughter was named after his wife's mother - thanks Irish Naming Patterns!) She is listed as Eilis on her marriage certificate, which was always transcribed as Eliz. - but I suspect that it really was either a version of Alice or just a phonetic transcription into the parish register in Ballina. John On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Paul Conroy <[email protected]> wrote: > "Aineislis" seems to me to be "Aine Eilis", or Anne Elizabeth > On Nov 3, 2013 2:32 PM, "Bernard Morgan" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > I know there are a number of members skilled in Gaelic and would like to > > ask what the diminutive of Aineislis would be? > > > > I am looking for what the Gaelic form for Anselan, per the founding > figure > > Anselan Buey Okyan. > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Helen, Chromo2 is a similar technology to Geno 2.0 but more uptodate and with new detailed structure under your current terminal SNP which is called M222. It covers a superset of the other marker you mention DF85 but is more expensive. It is not possible to reliably predict whether you are likely DF85 positive and if you are you would then as a minimum need to test DF97 too. There is another marker on Chromo2 which is likely equivalent to DF97 although we don't have any test results to confirm that yet. So its USD39 (+ maybe another USD39) v USD199 to be sure, or give you more details if you are DF85 -ve. Most people overall have been DF85-ve and are now having to order Chromo2 anyway so are paying twice. I've had a look at your markers and all I can say is you are within the range where there is somewhat of a chance you are DF85+ but you are on the edge of the range. There is a diagram of test results so far at: http://www.kennedydna.com/M222.pdf Chromo2 is sold by ScotlandsDNA who also trade as IrelandsDNA. This is the direct button to place an order: http://www.irelandsdna.com/mydna/basket/add/6 Personally I would go straight to Chromo2. But no-one knows in advance which route will be most economical for you. Your question about another Murphy line is irrelevant. This is a Y chromosome test and the Y doesn't recombine with other genetic lines, it is a pure paternal father to son test all the way back. Iain > Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 07:59:00 -0800 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > CC: [email protected] > Subject: [R-M222] Chromo2 question? & DF85 SNP? > > My husband Dave Murphy is R1b1a2a1a1b4b - L-21 - Kit #201315 at ftDNA, I administer his kit and have had his markers tested to 111 and had his autosomal (FF) done also. What is the USA cost of Chromo2? What is it and where do you get it?? I myself have done my own Geno2 with National Geographic... is it the same thing??? > > I am having to finance these tests, so I am cautious what I have to order, would it be just as good to order DF85 at $39.00 ? > > My next question is his Y-DNA never quite matches exactly other Murphy's markers... off usually 1 marker or so. I am wondering if it is because he also has another Murphy 2nd great grandfather also born in Ireland. Could this throw his markers off a bit?? Helen > > Helen Nichols Murphy (Battleson), [email protected] - Coronado, California > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

> http://daver.info/chromo2/results/

I cannot locate my link ------ would someone share this with me again? > http://daver.info/ I know it should follow the above but I cannot locate it again. Thanks, Linda

Alan, That is good news indeed! Something to look forward to as a certainly to give further definition to our journey of discovery. I am very tempted to follow suit and debate it with myself daily. Do you have a delivery date yet? Linda > From: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Two new DF85 orders > Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2013 11:50:34 -0500 (EST) > > > Linda, I have ordered the Chromo2 test. Alan

My husband Dave Murphy is R1b1a2a1a1b4b - L-21 - Kit #201315 at ftDNA, I administer his kit and have had his markers tested to 111 and had his autosomal (FF) done also.  What is the USA cost of Chromo2? What is it and where do you get it??  I myself have done my own Geno2 with National Geographic... is it the same thing???   I am having to finance these tests, so I am cautious what I have to order, would it be just as good to order DF85 at $39.00 ?   My next question is his Y-DNA never quite matches exactly other Murphy's markers... off usually 1 marker or so. I am wondering if it is because he also has another Murphy 2nd great grandfather also born in Ireland. Could this throw his markers off a bit??  Helen Helen Nichols Murphy (Battleson), [email protected] - Coronado, California

I know there are a number of members skilled in Gaelic and would like to ask what the diminutive of Aineislis would be? I am looking for what the Gaelic form for Anselan, per the founding figure Anselan Buey Okyan.

"Aineislis" seems to me to be "Aine Eilis", or Anne Elizabeth On Nov 3, 2013 2:32 PM, "Bernard Morgan" <[email protected]> wrote: > I know there are a number of members skilled in Gaelic and would like to > ask what the diminutive of Aineislis would be? > > I am looking for what the Gaelic form for Anselan, per the founding figure > Anselan Buey Okyan. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >