If they do clarify it on their site, I hope they clarify the surnames used in the study as well as SNPs. It is well known Co. Mayo experienced periods of heavy migrations in and out, especially during the Cromwellian transplantations. As some will be aware, one such migration took place from Co. Donegal under Rory O'Donnell, his kindred and other native Donegal families. It would be interesting to know what percentage of those 105 males are the living descendants of those Donegal families, who made Co. Mayo their home in the 1654 and later. Alan In a message dated 11/11/2013 10:48:27 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Looking at my often hard to read notes, I do not find (nor recall) that Dr. Vilar said M222 had the highest diversity in Mayo. Frequency perhaps. I think he said they tested 105 men and 80% were M222. This should be clarified on the Natioonal Genographic site and blog soon. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It's worth pointing out that the "North Connacht" dialect of Irish as found (hanging on by it's fingertips!) in North Mayo shows heavy Ulster influence. So much so that's it's basically an intermediate dialect between Conamara (South Connacht) and Donegal Irish. One of my cluster members under DF41 has origins in Mayo (18th century) whereas the other three members of the cluster all have origins in West Ulster (Donegal/Tyrone), with his closest match having origins in Tyrone. So it's not just M222 that shows up due to this "internal migration" during the modern era. -Paul (DF41+) On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 5:02 PM, B. Davitt <[email protected]> wrote: > Personally I think there must be a misunderstanding somewhere about M222 > originating in Co.Mayo. Just because there is a significant amount of M222 > in Co.Mayo does not mean it originated there. Just speaking in terms of my > own surname Co. Mayo had plenty of Davitt families around the mid 19th > century, quite a few Devitt families and no McDevitt families (Griffiths > Valuation). My own ancestors, Devitt, were in Co. Westmeath (6 families) at > this time, with no McDevitt families in that county either, although > McDevitt families were prevalent in Co. Donegal. Are the Devitt/Davitt > families related to the McDevitts of Donegal or a separate family? I think > they are the same for the most part and that's the whole reason I began DNA > testing (see > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/doherty/default.aspx?section=ycolorized > ). > My point is if the McDevitts truly are related to and descended from a > branch of the O'Dochartaighs, then they did not originate in Co. Mayo but > rather in Donegal and then migrated into Mayo. I think it stands to reason > that other M222 Ulster families probably did the same. This does not point > to the origin of M222 being in Ulster necessarily, but I think it does show > how migration through the years can effect the overall DNA signature within > a certain area and doesn't mean the SNPs of highest frequency originated > there. > On a side note according to the ISOGG-wiki site the "Big-Y" test is both > a NextGen HiSeq. and Barcoding test. I think there was some question of > this posted sometime yesterday. > Brenden > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Fleet Cooper Fleet Cooper Sr., Family Genealogy of, Sampson County, North Carolina. ... his ties back to Sir George Ashley COOPER and his illustrious ancestry of England.---England---England R -M222 my Case is closed...........no more flip flopping.... Keep in mind only group of Ashley Compare with Fleet Cooper And Ashley Cooper of Canada . Check out Cooper DNA.Only one group of Ashley's Come close to Fleet Cooper .period . Gene Fleet Cooper, Sr. (1721 - c.1795) - Genealogy - Geni _www.geni.com/people/Judge-Fleet-Cooper-Sr/6000000000117499584_ (http://www.geni.com/people/Judge-Fleet-Cooper-Sr/6000000000117499584) - Similar to Fleet Cooper, Sr. (1721 - c.1795) - Genealogy - Geni Sep 26, 2012 ... Genealogy for Fleet Cooper, Sr. (1721 - c.1795) on Geni with over ... of Sir John Cooper, Baronet, who married Ann Ashley (died 20 July 1628), ... Fleet Judge Cooper Sr - Davis and Shaw Families of North Carolina 02ec0a3.netsolhost.com/getperson.php?personID=I2624&tree... - Similar to Fleet Judge Cooper Sr - Davis and Shaw Families of North Carolina Cooper DNA is all you have to look at .Compare it to what group of Ashley To all relatives of Fleet Cooper, Sr. of Sampson County, NC; either related ... Cooper of Stratford Upon Avon, in England, or from George Ashley Cooper, the ... The Reverend Fleet Cooper, Sr. - USGenWeb Archives files.usgwarchives.net/nc/wayne/heritage/cooper.txt - Similar to The Reverend Fleet Cooper, Sr. - USGenWeb Archives Fleet Cooper, Sr., (1722-1795) was a pioneer Baptist minister in Sampson and ... Fleet Cooper was descended from a brother of Anthony Ashley Cooper (Earl of ... [PDF] Descendants of Fleet Cooper, Sr. - Cooper Family Tree cooperfamilytree.com/assets/pdf/FleetCooper.pdf - Similar to Descendants of Fleet Cooper, Sr. - Cooper Family Tree I, Fleet Cooper, Senior, of the county of Sampson and state of North Carolina, being .... They were parents of Sir John Cooper, Baronet, who married Ann Ashley ... Cooper, Fleet, of Sampson County, North Carolina _www.johncroom.com/croopa10.htm_ (http://www.johncroom.com/croopa10.htm) - Similar to Cooper, Fleet, of Sampson County, North Carolina Fleet Cooper Sr., Family Genealogy of, Sampson County, North Carolina. ... his ties back to Sir George Ashley COOPER and his illustrious ancestry of England. 91734 Ashley N6BDH - Thos.A. ASHLEY; c1660 Lancasternn Co, VA R1b1a2 13 25 14 11 11-12 12 12 11 12 14 27 17 9-11 11 11 25 15 18 30 15-15-16-17 11 11 19-23 17 16 19 17 38-40 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 21-23 16 10 12 12 16 8 12 26 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 16212 Ashley YN222 - James Jordan ASHLEY, 1790 Barnwell Co, SC R1b1a2a1a1b4b 13 25 14 11 11-12 12 12 11 12 14 28 17 9-11 11 11 25 15 18 30 15-15-16-17 11 11 19-23 17 16 19 17 38-40 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 21-23 16 10 12 12 16 8 12 26 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 11 2751CooperFleet Cooper Sr.R1b1a2a1a1b4 R-L21DF5+, L21+, L51+, L627+, M173+, M207+, M269+, M343+, P25+, P312+, L144-, L159.2-, L176.2-, L193-, L226-, L625-, L626-, L96-, M126-, M153-, M160-, M18-, M222-, M37-, M65-, M73-, P107-, P314.2-, P66-, SRY2627-, U106-, U152-, U198- 80477CooperDavid Cooper (1812 VA - 1907 IL)R1b1a2a1a1b4 R-L21L21+, M222-, M37-, P66- 206663CooperPreserved Cooper b. 1808 New York, USA and d. unkR1b1a2a1a1b4 R-L21L21+, P312+, L144-, L159.2-, L176.2-, L193-, L226-, L96-, M222-, M37-, P314.2-, P66-, U106- 98457CooperFleet Cooper, 1722, VAR1b1a2a1a1b4 R-L21L21+, P312+, M153-, M222-, M37-, M65-, P66-, SRY2627-, U152- 9450Cooper R1b1a2a1a1b4b R-M222 7297Cooper R1b1a2a1a1b4b R-M222

To "Hell or Connaught" was made famous by Cromwell. But even before Oliver's time there were migrations from Ulster to Mayo. One interesting one for the O'Dochartaigh Clann is the migration of Maonghaile O'Dochartaigh's descendants ( Munnelley, Monnellly, Manley) from Donegal to Ballymunnelley, Ballycastle and Cloontikilla, Mayo prior to 1585. This precedes Cahir O'Dochartaigh's rebellion and the Plantation of Ulster. It appears that, like the McDevitts, the Munnelly/Monnelley/Manley sept may prove to be another branch of the O'Dochartaigh. I have started discussions with Paul Manley investigate this connection and why they migrated to Mayo when they did. Sent from my iPad

I assume that the different DNA testing companies are giving different (private) labels to the same markers for a reason. But then how do they justify saying that they offer more or additional markers than their competitors if they cannot provide their customers (participants) the means to verify this? What is the reason for reticence on their part to contribute to a "Rosetta Stone" to translate / compare results from the different vendors? Is it just greed? Or is there some legal constraint that is holding them back? Are there legal roadblocks to members of this list to create such a translation table? Could an independent entity like the ISOGG host such a table that could provide the transparency we are looking for? I find it interesting how quickly access to the following table was withdrawn: >> A copy of Dr. Michael's Hammer's map of the new SNPs downstream from M222 has been published at: >> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151949352643444&set=gm.621729794551000&type=1&theater Bob Doherty Sent from my iPad

Thanks Doug; I'm sure that I'm Irish and that's a good thing. ;) I think more Irish then I though as names like Flynn, Spear's and Routon (Routen) on my maternal side. Wow Billy In a message dated 11/11/2013 2:43:42 P.M. Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Billy, Oh, my goodness but you might be Irish. However, the Doherty project includes not only the main Doherty family but also no less than a few sub-branches of the family. Doug On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 3:22 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > I see I have a Doherty in my Dunbar line? What does that tell me? I'm a > M222 > > Billy Dunbar > > In a message dated 11/11/2013 2:02:31 P.M. Central Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Just to add to the conversation … If I drop down to 25 markers at FTDNA > the > majority of my more distant genetic relatives are from Connacht, northern > Munster and Ulster. Yeah, some of them are in Mayo, too. And I am the > only Morrison listed on the Doherty project. > > Doug > > > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Paul Ó Duḃṫaiġ <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > It's worth pointing out that the "North Connacht" dialect of Irish as > found > > (hanging on by it's fingertips!) in North Mayo shows heavy Ulster > > influence. So much so that's it's basically an intermediate dialect > between > > Conamara (South Connacht) and Donegal Irish. > > > > One of my cluster members under DF41 has origins in Mayo (18th century) > > whereas the other three members of the cluster all have origins in West > > Ulster (Donegal/Tyrone), with his closest match having origins in > Tyrone. > > So it's not just M222 that shows up due to this "internal migration" > during > > the modern era. > > > > -Paul > > (DF41+) > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 5:02 PM, B. Davitt <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > Personally I think there must be a misunderstanding somewhere about > > M222 > > > originating in Co.Mayo. Just because there is a significant amount of > > M222 > > > in Co.Mayo does not mean it originated there. Just speaking in terms > of > > my > > > own surname Co. Mayo had plenty of Davitt families around the mid 19th > > > century, quite a few Devitt families and no McDevitt families > (Griffiths > > > Valuation). My own ancestors, Devitt, were in Co. Westmeath (6 > families) > > at > > > this time, with no McDevitt families in that county either, although > > > McDevitt families were prevalent in Co. Donegal. Are the Devitt/Davitt > > > families related to the McDevitts of Donegal or a separate family? I > > think > > > they are the same for the most part and that's the whole reason I > began > > DNA > > > testing (see > > > > > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/doherty/default.aspx?section=ycolorized > > > ). > > > My point is if the McDevitts truly are related to and descended from > a > > > branch of the O'Dochartaighs, then they did not originate in Co. Mayo > but > > > rather in Donegal and then migrated into Mayo. I think it stands to > > reason > > > that other M222 Ulster families probably did the same. This does not > > point > > > to the origin of M222 being in Ulster necessarily, but I think it does > > show > > > how migration through the years can effect the overall DNA signature > > within > > > a certain area and doesn't mean the SNPs of highest frequency > originated > > > there. > > > On a side note according to the ISOGG-wiki site the "Big-Y" test is > > both > > > a NextGen HiSeq. and Barcoding test. I think there was some question > of > > > this posted sometime yesterday. > > > Brenden > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Billy, Oh, my goodness but you might be Irish. However, the Doherty project includes not only the main Doherty family but also no less than a few sub-branches of the family. Doug On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 3:22 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > I see I have a Doherty in my Dunbar line? What does that tell me? I'm a > M222 > > Billy Dunbar > > In a message dated 11/11/2013 2:02:31 P.M. Central Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Just to add to the conversation … If I drop down to 25 markers at FTDNA > the > majority of my more distant genetic relatives are from Connacht, northern > Munster and Ulster. Yeah, some of them are in Mayo, too. And I am the > only Morrison listed on the Doherty project. > > Doug > > > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Paul Ó Duḃṫaiġ <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > It's worth pointing out that the "North Connacht" dialect of Irish as > found > > (hanging on by it's fingertips!) in North Mayo shows heavy Ulster > > influence. So much so that's it's basically an intermediate dialect > between > > Conamara (South Connacht) and Donegal Irish. > > > > One of my cluster members under DF41 has origins in Mayo (18th century) > > whereas the other three members of the cluster all have origins in West > > Ulster (Donegal/Tyrone), with his closest match having origins in > Tyrone. > > So it's not just M222 that shows up due to this "internal migration" > during > > the modern era. > > > > -Paul > > (DF41+) > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 5:02 PM, B. Davitt <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > Personally I think there must be a misunderstanding somewhere about > > M222 > > > originating in Co.Mayo. Just because there is a significant amount of > > M222 > > > in Co.Mayo does not mean it originated there. Just speaking in terms > of > > my > > > own surname Co. Mayo had plenty of Davitt families around the mid 19th > > > century, quite a few Devitt families and no McDevitt families > (Griffiths > > > Valuation). My own ancestors, Devitt, were in Co. Westmeath (6 > families) > > at > > > this time, with no McDevitt families in that county either, although > > > McDevitt families were prevalent in Co. Donegal. Are the Devitt/Davitt > > > families related to the McDevitts of Donegal or a separate family? I > > think > > > they are the same for the most part and that's the whole reason I > began > > DNA > > > testing (see > > > > > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/doherty/default.aspx?section=ycolorized > > > ). > > > My point is if the McDevitts truly are related to and descended from > a > > > branch of the O'Dochartaighs, then they did not originate in Co. Mayo > but > > > rather in Donegal and then migrated into Mayo. I think it stands to > > reason > > > that other M222 Ulster families probably did the same. This does not > > point > > > to the origin of M222 being in Ulster necessarily, but I think it does > > show > > > how migration through the years can effect the overall DNA signature > > within > > > a certain area and doesn't mean the SNPs of highest frequency > originated > > > there. > > > On a side note according to the ISOGG-wiki site the "Big-Y" test is > > both > > > a NextGen HiSeq. and Barcoding test. I think there was some question > of > > > this posted sometime yesterday. > > > Brenden > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I see I have a Doherty in my Dunbar line? What does that tell me? I'm a M222 Billy Dunbar In a message dated 11/11/2013 2:02:31 P.M. Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Just to add to the conversation … If I drop down to 25 markers at FTDNA the majority of my more distant genetic relatives are from Connacht, northern Munster and Ulster. Yeah, some of them are in Mayo, too. And I am the only Morrison listed on the Doherty project. Doug On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Paul Ó Duḃṫaiġ <[email protected]> wrote: > It's worth pointing out that the "North Connacht" dialect of Irish as found > (hanging on by it's fingertips!) in North Mayo shows heavy Ulster > influence. So much so that's it's basically an intermediate dialect between > Conamara (South Connacht) and Donegal Irish. > > One of my cluster members under DF41 has origins in Mayo (18th century) > whereas the other three members of the cluster all have origins in West > Ulster (Donegal/Tyrone), with his closest match having origins in Tyrone. > So it's not just M222 that shows up due to this "internal migration" during > the modern era. > > -Paul > (DF41+) > > > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 5:02 PM, B. Davitt <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Personally I think there must be a misunderstanding somewhere about > M222 > > originating in Co.Mayo. Just because there is a significant amount of > M222 > > in Co.Mayo does not mean it originated there. Just speaking in terms of > my > > own surname Co. Mayo had plenty of Davitt families around the mid 19th > > century, quite a few Devitt families and no McDevitt families (Griffiths > > Valuation). My own ancestors, Devitt, were in Co. Westmeath (6 families) > at > > this time, with no McDevitt families in that county either, although > > McDevitt families were prevalent in Co. Donegal. Are the Devitt/Davitt > > families related to the McDevitts of Donegal or a separate family? I > think > > they are the same for the most part and that's the whole reason I began > DNA > > testing (see > > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/doherty/default.aspx?section=ycolorized > > ). > > My point is if the McDevitts truly are related to and descended from a > > branch of the O'Dochartaighs, then they did not originate in Co. Mayo but > > rather in Donegal and then migrated into Mayo. I think it stands to > reason > > that other M222 Ulster families probably did the same. This does not > point > > to the origin of M222 being in Ulster necessarily, but I think it does > show > > how migration through the years can effect the overall DNA signature > within > > a certain area and doesn't mean the SNPs of highest frequency originated > > there. > > On a side note according to the ISOGG-wiki site the "Big-Y" test is > both > > a NextGen HiSeq. and Barcoding test. I think there was some question of > > this posted sometime yesterday. > > Brenden > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Just to add to the conversation … If I drop down to 25 markers at FTDNA the majority of my more distant genetic relatives are from Connacht, northern Munster and Ulster. Yeah, some of them are in Mayo, too. And I am the only Morrison listed on the Doherty project. Doug On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Paul Ó Duḃṫaiġ <[email protected]> wrote: > It's worth pointing out that the "North Connacht" dialect of Irish as found > (hanging on by it's fingertips!) in North Mayo shows heavy Ulster > influence. So much so that's it's basically an intermediate dialect between > Conamara (South Connacht) and Donegal Irish. > > One of my cluster members under DF41 has origins in Mayo (18th century) > whereas the other three members of the cluster all have origins in West > Ulster (Donegal/Tyrone), with his closest match having origins in Tyrone. > So it's not just M222 that shows up due to this "internal migration" during > the modern era. > > -Paul > (DF41+) > > > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 5:02 PM, B. Davitt <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Personally I think there must be a misunderstanding somewhere about > M222 > > originating in Co.Mayo. Just because there is a significant amount of > M222 > > in Co.Mayo does not mean it originated there. Just speaking in terms of > my > > own surname Co. Mayo had plenty of Davitt families around the mid 19th > > century, quite a few Devitt families and no McDevitt families (Griffiths > > Valuation). My own ancestors, Devitt, were in Co. Westmeath (6 families) > at > > this time, with no McDevitt families in that county either, although > > McDevitt families were prevalent in Co. Donegal. Are the Devitt/Davitt > > families related to the McDevitts of Donegal or a separate family? I > think > > they are the same for the most part and that's the whole reason I began > DNA > > testing (see > > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/doherty/default.aspx?section=ycolorized > > ). > > My point is if the McDevitts truly are related to and descended from a > > branch of the O'Dochartaighs, then they did not originate in Co. Mayo but > > rather in Donegal and then migrated into Mayo. I think it stands to > reason > > that other M222 Ulster families probably did the same. This does not > point > > to the origin of M222 being in Ulster necessarily, but I think it does > show > > how migration through the years can effect the overall DNA signature > within > > a certain area and doesn't mean the SNPs of highest frequency originated > > there. > > On a side note according to the ISOGG-wiki site the "Big-Y" test is > both > > a NextGen HiSeq. and Barcoding test. I think there was some question of > > this posted sometime yesterday. > > Brenden > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Tuulen, I agree that what's a state agency in China or not probably isn't really that important. What is important is that the government at Tianamen Square has control over there and I'm uncomfortable with their respect for individual rights and protections to go along with the legal checks, balances, free press and the ability to sue, etc. My genes are not just mine. They are passed on to my descendants. I don't want my grandchildren to be sitting around 25 years from now asking "why did grandpa do that?" I'm admittedly insecure about that which is I why checked FTDNA's policies to ensure I have the ability to have my DNA sample stored there destroyed if I so requested. I would not send passwords and account numbers to my checking accounts all over the place but at least those I can change and insure in some respects. I'm not really worried too much about my Y SNPs and STRs, but my saliva sample has my whole gemone and it is the blueprint for my body. I won't send that just anywhere. Mike W On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:51 PM, tuulen <[email protected]> wrote: > Mike W, > > The Chinese lab could be a state agency, but should not be discounted on > that basis. They could care less if anybody of the M222 group could be > Irish or Scottish. Yet they are quite expert at technology such as DNA. > For instance, they are now successfully sending astronauts out into space > and are being blamed for hacking into global computer systems. > > And now those Communist Chinese are focused on money. Oh, my goodness! > > ;-) >

Bernard, Well spotted and thanks forwarding on this information for all to read. Looks like the page is down at present, but the list of SNPs below is really helpful. I see others are already working on them and Paul has also found some that appear in other Haplogroups. This is the kind information that is really needed at present and in the light of what is slowing emerging, I am wondering how many of those discovered by ScotlandsDNA have been correctly identified and correctly placed downstream of M222. Alan In a message dated 11/11/2013 00:00:25 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > > The quoted remark "There will be 21 new SNPs under M222 and all of them are tested on the NatGeo Geno 2.0 test." doesn't make any sense to me at all. We would have seen them by now!? Who is he saying found these SNPs and where? > A copy of Dr. Michael's Hammer's map of the new SNPs downstream from M222 has been published at: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151949352643444&set=gm.62172979455 1000&type=1&theater I read the SNPs as: PF3297 PF3988 F3952 F3024 CTS8007 M226 F499 L196 Z70 PF2026 CTS8580 plus PF1909 under CTS3771 CTS10488 F1400 CTS9501 PF910 PF7301 F3637 CTS6 F1636 CTS11548 Which is 21 different branches. However are they really under M222? For R-L196 (R1b1a2a1a1b3c2, R1b-P312>U152>L2>L196+) is a private SNP for the Barton family and seems unrelated to M222 http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R-L196/default.aspx?section=ycolorized And a Z90+ testee was negative for M222. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Susan, Technology marches on! Hey, as a mechanical engineer I know about technology, and I know that some tests are worthwhile while others could be redundant and/or worthless. But let us keep the flame burning brightly! And my DF85 results and 67 to 111 upgrade at FTDNA are due in about 2 weeks. Doug On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 2:08 AM, Susan Hedeen < [email protected]> wrote: > Dear Doug, sorry for the delay in answering, but I had to compact my mail > as even after weeding through, archiving, saving and deleting stuff I still > have nearly 19,000 that I need to weed through--no joke, it's been awhile > since I've paid attention to it until I ran out of email allotment. > > You have done a lot of testing in a very short period of time. To that > end, you have gone way beyond the call of duty in a very short period of > time. Also, the decision should be a personal choice based on all the > reasons you as an individual may wish to and/or wish not to test based on > your goals and what you believe may be accomplished, etc. > > I am really touched by your confidence and sincerely appreciate the fact > that you recognize that the work regarding M222 that I do is aimed at the > benefit of individuals and the project. This indeed is my intention... > > But I'm NOT the only one. There are countless individuals in this project > present and past, you included, who do the same: volunteer time, post to > the forum, look at haplotypes and results until bleary eyed, research > historical and genealogical information, spend money on testing, and all > the rest. Every person works on stuff...and we owe our administrators our > gratitude for managing the project pages and results; Linda, for instance, > has been tirelessly checking daily for orders and results, setting up > result groups in the project pages and more. > > Testing needs to be a personal decision, and I'll not make that decision > for another person. Hope that is ok. Susan > > > > > > On 11/10/2013 10:46 PM, tuulen wrote: > >> OK, dear Susan, >> >> I know you work long and hard at this project. >> >> And so in my respect for you I will take whatever test you could ask for. >> >> Doug >> >> >> >

Mike W, The Chinese lab could be a state agency, but should not be discounted on that basis. They could care less if anybody of the M222 group could be Irish or Scottish. Yet they are quite expert at technology such as DNA. For instance, they are now successfully sending astronauts out into space and are being blamed for hacking into global computer systems. And now those Communist Chinese are focused on money. Oh, my goodness! ;-) Doug On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 11:56 PM, Mike W <[email protected]> wrote: > Rob, > > I've got inquiries into both companies on what they mean by coverage, etc. > I'll let you know what I can figure out, if anything. Unfortunately, some > of this is chicken and egg. You have to try it to see what it is. > > As far as SNPs go, I've tried to tell both companies I don't really care > about total coverage, etc., etc. I only care about the probability of > accurately reporting and discovering stable (for phylgenetic trees) SNPs > downstream of what we already known. Thousands of SNPs upstream make > little difference to genetic genealogy and SNPs that are highly > recurrent/unstable or can not be consistently/accurately tested are of not > much use that I can see. > > On Full Genome Corp, I have a personal concern that others may not have. It > appears your DNA sample has to be shipped to China to a lab that may be > little more than a state agency. I don't trust my own government so I don't > why I'd trust theirs. > > Regards, > Mike W > > > > On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 5:38 AM, Rob McFadden <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > I don't think this has been posted on this list yet: > > > > > http://cruwys.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/the-new-big-y-test-from-family-tree-dna.html > > > > FTDNA is offering a new test for $499 (limited time, then $699) that > > covers 10 million base pairs, 25,000 known SNPs and is expected to > > discover new SNPs. > > > > The Full Genome is currently out of my price range. This is low > > enough to be tempting, but would be a stretch. Are enough details out > > there that someone could explain how much coverage this provides vs. > > the Full Genome test? I also would like to know more about the > > possibility of discovering new SNPs. If the whole genome is not > > covered, what are the odds of finding them? > > > > Rob > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Using DNA sampling, geographically measuring frequency, distribution and diversity (today), measures current frequency, diversity and distribution today. These measured (today) in their geographical locations does not equate with what these numbers would have been 100--200--300 years ago let alone 2000 years ago. To use an obvious example, New York City has probably the largest most diversified populations in western culture. How did this diversity occur? Through migration and mixing of populations. Because of its large population as well as large ethnic populations there will also be large frequency of both ethnicity and Ydna associated with those ethnic cultures. Does that mean that NY city is a city of origin for any of it? No it does not. Now this is a rather obvious example, but it is pertinent. Of the populations of Ireland (and the Isles general, really) are None technically indigenous...they all migrated in, out, back, and within at different times over the last couple of thousand years or so. Ireland to the greater extent is a great melting pot of Western Europe and the end of the road so to speak. We should find a high distribution, diversity and frequency of R1b sub-clades there, and R-M222 (most probably mutating in a man in the Isles among populations associated with western Europe and westward migration) understandably would be found with high distribution, frequency and diversity particularly if one considers the migration history within the Isles themselves. Confusing today's frequency, distribution and diversity with origin is a ever common theme within the GG community. I really do hope that we avoid these arguments as they are pointless and so divisive. I intend to focus on which groups SNP out the same and try to understand them better and stay away from the ever evolving theories of origin. Using the often assessed ancestral origin claims is even a better gauge than today's measures of frequency, distribution, and diversity, and we all know how accurate/and/or the reverse thereof these claims are coupled with the surname difficulties. Susan Hedeen On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Rob McFadden <[email protected]>wrote: >> Given Co. Mayo's history, I can't see how any meaningful conclusions >> can be drawn without examining the surnames of those tested. Mayo saw >> significant immigration from Ulster over the years followed by >> significant post-famine emigration. The population of the county in >> 1971 was 28 percent of the 1841 population, more than a 70 percent drop! >> >> Quoting [email protected]: >> >>> Looking at my often hard to read notes, I do not find (nor recall) >>> that Dr. Vilar said M222 had the highest diversity in Mayo. >>> Frequency perhaps. I think he said they tested 105 men and 80% were >>> M222. This should be clarified on the Natioonal Genographic site and >>> blog soon. >>> >>>

Let alone the fact that it's home to surnames with origins in Uí Fhiachrach and Uí Bhriúin, both of which appear to be M222 dominated (the semi-mythical half brothers of Niall) -Paul (DF41+) On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Rob McFadden <[email protected]>wrote: > Given Co. Mayo's history, I can't see how any meaningful conclusions > can be drawn without examining the surnames of those tested. Mayo saw > significant immigration from Ulster over the years followed by > significant post-famine emigration. The population of the county in > 1971 was 28 percent of the 1841 population, more than a 70 percent drop! > > Quoting [email protected]: > > > Looking at my often hard to read notes, I do not find (nor recall) > > that Dr. Vilar said M222 had the highest diversity in Mayo. > > Frequency perhaps. I think he said they tested 105 men and 80% were > > M222. This should be clarified on the Natioonal Genographic site and > > blog soon. > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Personally I think there must be a misunderstanding somewhere about M222 originating in Co.Mayo. Just because there is a significant amount of M222 in Co.Mayo does not mean it originated there. Just speaking in terms of my own surname Co. Mayo had plenty of Davitt families around the mid 19th century, quite a few Devitt families and no McDevitt families (Griffiths Valuation). My own ancestors, Devitt, were in Co. Westmeath (6 families) at this time, with no McDevitt families in that county either, although McDevitt families were prevalent in Co. Donegal. Are the Devitt/Davitt families related to the McDevitts of Donegal or a separate family? I think they are the same for the most part and that's the whole reason I began DNA testing (see http://www.familytreedna.com/public/doherty/default.aspx?section=ycolorized ). My point is if the McDevitts truly are related to and descended from a branch of the O'Dochartaighs, then they did not originate in Co. Mayo but rather in Donegal and then migrated into Mayo. I think it stands to reason that other M222 Ulster families probably did the same. This does not point to the origin of M222 being in Ulster necessarily, but I think it does show how migration through the years can effect the overall DNA signature within a certain area and doesn't mean the SNPs of highest frequency originated there. On a side note according to the ISOGG-wiki site the "Big-Y" test is both a NextGen HiSeq. and Barcoding test. I think there was some question of this posted sometime yesterday. Brenden

80% is a staggering figure. But on the subject of Mayo I was under the impression they have done a special field trip there as opposed to neutral sampling by county all over the country? I could be wrong though. Iain > Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 10:47:37 +0000 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: [R-M222] M222 in Mayo > > Looking at my often hard to read notes, I do not find (nor recall) that Dr. Vilar said M222 had the highest diversity in Mayo. Frequency perhaps. I think he said they tested 105 men and 80% were M222. This should be clarified on the Natioonal Genographic site and blog soon. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Looking at my often hard to read notes, I do not find (nor recall) that Dr. Vilar said M222 had the highest diversity in Mayo. Frequency perhaps. I think he said they tested 105 men and 80% were M222. This should be clarified on the Natioonal Genographic site and blog soon.

I have a number of articles and surname lists of these Ulster migrants, if anyone is interested. John Sent from my Nokia Lumia phone -----Original Message----- From: "Bernie Donahue" <[email protected]> Sent: ‎11/‎11/‎2013 9:13 AM To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [R-M222] DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 7, Issue 423 Circa 1796 there was conflict among the emerging Catholic weavers in Ulster and the local Protestant weavers.  Following a clash known historically as the Battle of the Diamond, many Catholic families were forcibly expelled from Ulster to Mayo by the new Orange Order.  Given that these expelled families were native Irish from Northwest Ireland, there could well have been many M222s among them.  This would have created M222 clusters in Mayo.  See, e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Diamond   Bernie Donahue Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad (A Light Heart Lives Longer) From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 6:11 AM >Subject: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 7, Issue 423 > > > > >Today's Topics: > >  1. Re: M222 Could Originate in? (Iain Kennedy) >  2. Third Big Y order from M222+ (Linda McKee) >  3. M222 in Mayo ([email protected]) >  4. Re: M222 in Mayo (Iain Kennedy) >  5. Re: M222 in Mayo (Rob McFadden) >  6. Re: DF85 (Linda McKee) >  7. Re: M222 in Mayo (Paul ? Du??ai?) >  8. Re: M222 Could Originate in? (Mitch) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 09:42:28 +0000 >From: Iain Kennedy <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [R-M222] M222 Could Originate in? >To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 00:00:11 +0000 >> Subject: Re: [R-M222] M222 Could Originate in? >> >> > >> > The quoted remark "There will be 21 new SNPs under M222 and all of them are tested on the NatGeo Geno 2.0 test." doesn't make any sense to me at all. We would have seen them by now!? Who is he saying found these SNPs and where? >> > >> >> A copy of Dr. Michael's Hammer's map of the new SNPs downstream from M222 has been published at: >> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151949352643444&set=gm.621729794551000&type=1&theater >> >> >> I read the SNPs as: >> >> PF3297 >> PF3988 >> F3952 >> F3024 >> CTS8007 >> M226 >> F499 >> L196 >> Z70 >> PF2026 >> CTS8580 plus PF1909 under >> CTS3771 >> CTS10488 >> F1400 >> CTS9501 >> PF910 >> PF7301 >> F3637 >> CTS6 >> F1636 >> CTS11548 >> >Well spotted Bernard. I checked my raw Geno file and these are all in it except CTS8007. The image isn't quite good enough to be sure that's what it says though (there is a CTS8002 listed for example).. Given the large number of M222 people who took the Geno test though, it seems unlikely these are significant since no-one we know of has had a 'hit' so far. > >Iain >                        > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 03:45:51 -0600 >From: Linda McKee <[email protected]> >Subject: [R-M222] Third Big Y order from M222+ >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >> larry williams >> >> Kit Number: 229652 >> >> Test: Big Y > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 10:47:37 +0000 (UTC) >From: [email protected] >Subject: [R-M222] M222 in Mayo >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: >    <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > >Looking at my often hard to read notes, I do not find (nor recall) that Dr. Vilar said M222 had the highest diversity in Mayo. Frequency perhaps. I think he said they tested 105 men and 80% were M222. This should be clarified on the Natioonal Genographic site and blog soon. > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 4 >Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 10:51:44 +0000 >From: Iain Kennedy <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [R-M222] M222 in Mayo >To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >80% is a staggering figure. But on the subject of Mayo I was under the impression they have done a special field trip there as opposed to neutral sampling by county all over the country? I could be wrong though. > >Iain > > > > > >> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 10:47:37 +0000 >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [R-M222] M222 in Mayo >> >> Looking at my often hard to read notes, I do not find (nor recall) that Dr. Vilar said M222 had the highest diversity in Mayo. Frequency perhaps. I think he said they tested 105 men and 80% were M222. This should be clarified on the Natioonal Genographic site and blog soon. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >                        > >------------------------------ > >Message: 5 >Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 06:31:27 -0500 >From: Rob McFadden <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [R-M222] M222 in Mayo >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; >    format="flowed" > >Given Co. Mayo's history, I can't see how any meaningful conclusions  >can be drawn without examining the surnames of those tested.  Mayo saw  >significant immigration from Ulster over the years followed by  >significant post-famine emigration.  The population of the county in  >1971 was 28 percent of the 1841 population, more than a 70 percent drop! > >Quoting [email protected]: > >> Looking at my often hard to read notes, I do not find (nor recall)  >> that Dr. Vilar said M222 had the highest diversity in Mayo.  >> Frequency perhaps. I think he said they tested 105 men and 80% were  >> M222. This should be clarified on the Natioonal Genographic site and  >> blog soon. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to  >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without  >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 6 >Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 05:34:51 -0600 >From: Linda McKee <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [R-M222] DF85 >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Hello Larry, > >I am very sorry about missing your order and have not a clue as to why >you were still listed in the regular group listing. > >Somehow I missed you  ;-( > >But, now I have found you and you are listed as Pending DF85 and/or DF97 >  ;-) on our excel. > >Linda > >> Message: 4 >> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:50:25 -0800 (PST) >> From: Lawrence Dill <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [R-M222] DF85 >> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: >>     <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> I guess I was accidently removed from the pending list. >> My DF85 results are expected on Dec 2. >> Lawrence Dill, Kit # 73271 > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 7 >Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 11:35:09 +0000 >From: Paul ? Du??ai? <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [R-M222] M222 in Mayo >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: >    <[email protected]om> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >Let alone the fact that it's home to surnames with origins in U? Fhiachrach >and U? Bhri?in, both of which appear to be M222 dominated (the >semi-mythical half brothers of Niall) > >-Paul >(DF41+) > > >On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Rob McFadden ><[email protected]>wrote: > >> Given Co. Mayo's history, I can't see how any meaningful conclusions >> can be drawn without examining the surnames of those tested.  Mayo saw >> significant immigration from Ulster over the years followed by >> significant post-famine emigration.  The population of the county in >> 1971 was 28 percent of the 1841 population, more than a 70 percent drop! >> >> Quoting [email protected]: >> >> > Looking at my often hard to read notes, I do not find (nor recall) >> > that Dr. Vilar said M222 had the highest diversity in Mayo. >> > Frequency perhaps. I think he said they tested 105 men and 80% were >> > M222. This should be clarified on the Natioonal Genographic site and >> > blog soon. >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 8 >Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 06:11:00 -0800 (PST) >From: Mitch <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [R-M222] M222 Could Originate in? >To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >Message-ID: >    <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > >Hi All, >? >? >I'm the Mitchell with the F3952+ result. In my never ending quest to understand all of this, what is it about this result that makes it interesting? Has anyone else had the same result? Have we learned anything new about this? I?am being tested for DF85. Anything else I should be doing at this point? >? >Thanks! >Eric? > >From: Paul ? Du??ai? <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:11 PM >Subject: Re: [R-M222] M222 Could Originate in? > > >PF3297 -- shows up in Haplogroup G (see Ireland project) >PF3988 -- show up in Haplogroup I (see Ireland project) >F3952 -- shows up in M222+ in Ireland Project (Mitchell:? N10119) >Z70 -- shows up in I2a2b (see Ireland Project) >PF1909 -- shows up in E-V12 (see Ireland Project) >PF910 -- shows up in A-M202 (see Ireland Project) >F1636 -- shows up in R1b-Z9 (see Ireland Project) >CTS11548 -- shows up in I-M26 (see Ireland Project) > >You could be looking at unreliable SNP's that have had multiple independent >occurences. The fact that most of them appear in other Haplogroups kinda >bears it out. Interesting to see the F3952+ result for Mitchell. All the >above were from kits that had Geno 2.0 done. > >-Paul >(DF41+) > > > > > > > >On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:00 AM, Bernard Morgan ><[email protected]>wrote: > >> > >> > The quoted remark "There will be 21 new SNPs under M222 and all of them >> are tested on the NatGeo Geno 2.0 test." doesn't make any sense to me at >> all. We would have seen them by now!? Who is he saying found these SNPs and >> where? >> > >> >> A copy of Dr. Michael's Hammer's map of the new SNPs downstream from M222 >> has been published at: >> >> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151949352643444&set=gm.621729794551000&type=1&theater >> >> >> I read the SNPs as: >> >> PF3297 >> PF3988 >> F3952 >> F3024 >> CTS8007 >> M226 >> F499 >> L196 >> Z70 >> PF2026 >> CTS8580 plus PF1909 under >> CTS3771 >> CTS10488 >> F1400 >> CTS9501 >> PF910 >> PF7301 >> F3637 >> CTS6 >> F1636 >> CTS11548 >> >> Which is 21 different branches. However are they really under M222? >> >> For R-L196 (R1b1a2a1a1b3c2, R1b-P312>U152>L2>L196+) is a private SNP for >> the Barton family and seems unrelated to M222 >> http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R-L196/default.aspx?section=ycolorized >> >> And a Z90+ testee was negative for M222. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >------------------------------ > > > >End of DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 7, Issue 423 >****************************************** > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

> From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 00:00:11 +0000 > Subject: Re: [R-M222] M222 Could Originate in… > > > > > The quoted remark "There will be 21 new SNPs under M222 and all of them are tested on the NatGeo Geno 2.0 test." doesn't make any sense to me at all. We would have seen them by now!? Who is he saying found these SNPs and where? > > > > A copy of Dr. Michael's Hammer's map of the new SNPs downstream from M222 has been published at: > https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151949352643444&set=gm.621729794551000&type=1&theater > > > I read the SNPs as: > > PF3297 > PF3988 > F3952 > F3024 > CTS8007 > M226 > F499 > L196 > Z70 > PF2026 > CTS8580 plus PF1909 under > CTS3771 > CTS10488 > F1400 > CTS9501 > PF910 > PF7301 > F3637 > CTS6 > F1636 > CTS11548 > Well spotted Bernard. I checked my raw Geno file and these are all in it except CTS8007. The image isn't quite good enough to be sure that's what it says though (there is a CTS8002 listed for example).. Given the large number of M222 people who took the Geno test though, it seems unlikely these are significant since no-one we know of has had a 'hit' so far. Iain