Bernard, when you say 'traced Magee', does that mean the testee or simply the Irish root? Alan In a message dated 13/11/2013 02:20:05 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > > I have traced Magee (S668+) as being identified as a contraction of 'O Maolghaoithe' who were vassals of O'Domhnaill: > I found John's writing on the subject: ".... We do not know the origin of either the O'Mulgeehys or the O'Nolans mentioned in the inquisition. I am also the one who pointed out MacLysaght's statement that the O'Mulgeeheys adopted the name Wynn and occasionally Windham as their own surname, based on the root "gaoth" or wind in Irish, which you freely copied. The exact spelling in the inquisition is "O'Mulgeegh ." This is undoubtedly the same family MacLysaght refers to as O'Mulgeehy (O Maolghaoite). This is also the same family called O Maolghaoithe (O'Mulgee, Magee) described as of "Tuath I Mhaolghaoithe" in the Ceart Ui Neill,' one of the major chieftains of Donegal under the O Donnells. They also appear in the Topographical Poems as "Muintir Maoil ghaoithe (O Mulgeeha)." As one of the major chieftains of Tirconnell under the O Donnells, their DNA is almost certainly R1b1c7, should you be lucky enough to locate a sample, as are all of the other major Donegal clans. They are probably Cenel Conaill in origin, although we have no Irish pedigrees tracing their descent. The O'Nolans, on the other hand, are a complete mystery and ascribing an origin for them is mere guesswork. O'Donovan had this to say about the O'Mulgeegys in his notes to the Topo Poems: "220. O Maoilgaoithe, now anglicised Mulgeehy and Wynne. this family was originally seated in the parish of Clondavaddock, in the territory of Fanaid, whence they were driven by the MacSweenys. Some families of this name are still extant. The late Dr. Thomas Wynne, of Croydon, near London, to whom there is a monument in the church of St. Margaret, was of this race, as the editor was informed by that gentleman's brother." There is an annal entry placing the O'Mulgeehys in Donegal long before the 14th century. 1284 FM Dowell, son of Manus O'Boyle, Chief of Cloch Chinnfaeladh, was slain by the people of O'Mulgeeha. 1284 AC Dubgall mac Magnusa h. Baigill taisech Cloichi Cinnfaelad 18] do marbad la muintir h. Mailgaithi" Well it turns out that it is likely that we do have DNA Additionally from Alan's webpage: AI 1000 - A battle between the Cenél Lugdach themselves, in which Ua Domnaill, king of Cenél Lugdach, Maelgoan Ua Loingsig and his son and many others fell, and Ua Maíl Gaíthe was slain on the other side. Which would imply that the Ua Maíl Gaíthe were Cenel Lugdach or closely related. While other family given, the Ó LOINGSIGH is typically anglicized O Lynchy, O Lynche, O Lensie, Linchey, Linchy, Lynchy, Lynch, Lindsy, (Lindsay); per Wolfe. Fr Wolfe didn't mention this Cenel Conaill family, instead he gave: (1) Ó Loingsigh of Dalradia, (2) Ó Loingsigh of Owney, Uaithne-thire in Tipperary, (3) Ó Loingsigh of Breifney, numerous in Co. Cavan. (4) Ó Loingsigh of Thomond. a Dalcassian family (5) Ó Loingsigh of Cork, a branch of the Corca Laoighe, (6) Ó Loingsigh of Sligo, a branch of the Ui Fiachrach. (7) Ó Loingsigh of Meath. Being that Cenel Conaill power under the O'Donnell's extended into north Connacht. Could Wolfe's Ó Loingsigh of Sligo/Ui Fiachrach be the original Ó Loingsigh associate with Cenél Lugdach (the leading branch of Cenel Conaill)? There are also MacDonnchadh in the area. 'Mac Donnchaidh a branch of the MacDermotts of Moylurg, who were chiefs of Tirerrill and Corran, in Co. Sligo, and resided at Ballymote. The Book of Ballymote was compiled under their patronage.' I wonder if they were related to the people referred to as Ó Donnchadha of Tireragh, identified as a branch of the Ui Fiachrach of the Moy. And what about the Ó Duinnchinn of Sligo? Duinnchinn would seem to be a diminutive from the same name that the plurals Donnchadha and Donnchaidh derive from. In Ulster Mac Donnchaidh is reportedly common in Derry and Tyrone and anglicized as MacDonaghy and Donaghy. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Linda, as you know, there is a private piece of research going on into at least two McGees who emigrated from Galloway and settled in NW Ireland in the early 1600s. McKie N64222 is Kirkcudbrightshire and McGee 200080 is descended from a McGee whose trail is leading back from America to NW Ireland and from there to Galloway early in the 1600s. McKie N64222 is already confirmed DF85+, but his Geno 2.0 test did not include DF97. Now that we know both N64222 and 200080 have been tested positive for DF85, knowing if these and the others, test positive for DF97 is going to be important for three reasons. Firstly, in one of Sandy's emails, he seemed to suggest S668 and DF97, where probably close to each other and in the chart posted by Iain, there is a McGee at S668. Since we know the source of N64222 and 200080, it would be to everyones advantage to know if they test DF97+ or negative. If they test positive, it will add further weight to DF97+ being close to S668. It might be that someone on the forum already knows who S668 is, if so, it would helpful if this could be shared either privately or on this forum. Secondly, you will recall last year, along with Susan, we submitted sets of STRs to Anatole, and mine included that group of McKies and McGhies from Galloway. Anatole, when he ran his test produced a ‘phylogenetic tree’ which identified two branches. This tree was incorporated into the article 'Not All Scots were Irish First'. If you go to the article on the following link, scroll down to page 1577, you will find the group in question. At the time of writing, our knowledge of this cluster was very limited, but since then a good deal of work has been done on it. http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/Notallscots.pdf There is evidence now to show both these two branches share a common ancestry in Galloway and this will be an important step forward for the overall DF85 haplogroup. Since it appears the McGhees of Balmaghie and the McKies of Larg are in the same group, and in the other group we also have two old Galloway and South Ayrshire lineage names, the McConcheys and McLurgs, it is not only likely but near certain, the ancestor between these two branches pre-dates 1296 to an unknown period. All the lineage names McGhee, McKie, McConchy and McLurg can be evidenced both in the Ragman Roll (1296) and other sources on my webpage below: _Scottish M222_ (http://regarde-bien.com/scottish-m222.htm) I am hoping that what we are now seeing is the first clear genetic link between SW Scotland and Argyllshire, and to other DF85+ surnames that are located in this area and in the Highlands of Scotland, including, Allene's MacAdams/Adamsons. Finally, you will recall one of the original objectives of the Sons of Aodh DNA Project was to see if the McKies of Larg and McGhees of Balmaghie were genetically related down through the Clan Afren mentioned in my site. Since it is now looking very likely N64222 and 200080 are the living descendents of ancestors from the Clan Afren, this will push the age of DF85+ much further back in Scotland, as the ancestor of this clan could have lived as early as the tenth century or in the eleventh century. I trust this clarifies what I mean by significant. Alan In a message dated 13/11/2013 00:04:31 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Alan, Thanks very much for asking..........I really don't.......I also asked Craig earlier. Will you tell me about It? Thanks, Linda > > From: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Another new DF85+ > Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 18:50:10 -0500 (EST) > > > Linda, do you happen to realize the significance of this result? Alan > > In a message dated 12/11/2013 12:27:49 GMT Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > N64222 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks for posting that information, Alan. I'll be looking forward to further developments. As you know, my line is DF85+ and DF97 was ordered last night. Allene <I am hoping that what we are now seeing is the first clear genetic link between SW Scotland and Argyllshire, and to other DF85+ surnames that are located in this area and in the Highlands of Scotland, including, Allene's MacAdams/Adamsons.>

> Genetically I am closely associated with the Doherty clann, including > historical links between what apparently is my family and theirs, some of > the members of my apparent family are known to have migrated by boat to the > southern and to the inner Hebrides islands, and my haplogroup, L21+, M222+, > R1b1a2a1a1b4b can be found there, too. > > And I would be delighted to hear of any such results you might discover! Doug, I have an interest in the O'Muirgheasain. Irish names have been subject contraction, so O'Muirgheasain could easily contracted to O'Muirgheain which in turn can be anglicized as Morgan, hence my personal interest. As for other Morrison origins there are the MacGillamoire from county Down. So you in the same boat as myself, with multiple origins for your surname. The hope I have is that Chromo2 will allow the identification of kinship groups within the broader Connachta. Quick primer of Irish Surname: Typically Irish surnames come from the first-name of a male ancestor. This leads to multiple surnames based on common first-names, yet typically from different kinship groups. Additionally these Irish Surname are typically use either the diminutive or the plural form. (I have never found out why these forms are so common.) So for example if the ancestor was Murchad you can expect his descendants to use the surnames - MacMurchadha anglicized as MacMorhcoe and more (from plural form) MacMurchaidh anglicized as MacMurphy and more  (from plural form) MacMurchadhain anglicized as MacMorgan and more (from diminutive form) The reason I raise this is that O'Muirgheasain is diminutive form of last-name from the first-name Muirgheas. Muirgheas also gives rise to the plural surname O'Muirgheasaigh or anglicized O'Morrissey. So this means you also need to consider the Ui Fiachrach O'Morrissey of Sligo as a possible origin of your surname. Now your surname could be Ui Briuin (MacGillamoire of Down), Ui Fiachrach (O'Muirgheasaigh of Sligo) or Cenel Eoghain (O'Muirgheasain of Derry). For O'Muirgheasain of Derry I find no definite assertion that they are Cenel Eoghain. However I have found this pedigree in O'Clery's genealogies that suggests this:     Genelaigh o Muirghiusa Aedh m Muiredhaigh m Donngusa m Duib uinsenn m Mail eoin m Ainbeith m Fogartaigh m Mael roid m Fir moir m Muirghuisa (a raiter an sloinnedh) m Cobhtaigh m Tnuthghail m Duibh doire m Sarain m Tighernaigh m Muiredaigh m Eoghain. and above: Senchsus Cloinne Tigernaigh Insdo Tighernach m Muiredaigh mic Eogain m Neill. Tighernach dano .iiii. mic lais .i. Tairceltrach (a quo .h. Ulgoba), Gnia (a quo .h. Becan ocus .h. Odhrain), Saran (da mac lais .i. Domhongog toraighe et Dub doire a quo .h. Mhuirghiusa ocus .h. Conugan): Daithgheal, an cethramad mac do Tighernach, .ii. mac laiside .i. Corran et Ruadan. So most likely O'Muirgheasain of Derry are Cenel Tigernaigh of Cenel Eoghain. Now we need wait for the DNA markers to identify the Ui Briuin, Ui Fiachrach and Cenel Tigernaigh branches.

Dear Len, I'm happy to see this. I've generally had good results in getting help from FTDNA w/ issues, although I've never had a refund and it shows very good will IMO. Thank you for sharing with us both the original and this up-date. Susan Hedeen On 11/14/2013 1:34 PM, Len McC wrote: > In light of my last posting, I feel in all honesty I must post this as > well. As I am an adherent to some of the teachings of Diogenes > there shall be a third posting at a future date as yet undetermined. > Len > > from FTDNA: > > "Hello Mr. McCartney > Thank you for your reply. I have requested that your re-run on this most > recent attempt be expedited in the lab. Additionally, due to this > extreme delay, we are also going to refund you the cost of the DF85 SNP > test ($39), as a token of our sincere apologies for any inconvenience > this has caused. Your DF 85 test will continue to run in the lab until > satisfactory results are derived. Again, we apologize for this delay and > appreciate your attention to this matter." > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Susan, To put some perspective on this; where I live $40 is short of covering a bottle of Jameson's nose warmer. I just hate being left hanging, y'know? Unfilled expectations are tough to live with. :-) On 11/14/2013 10:46 AM, Susan Hedeen wrote: > Dear Len, > I'm happy to see this. I've generally had good results in getting help > from FTDNA w/ issues, although I've never had a refund and it shows very > good will IMO. Thank you for sharing with us both the original and this > up-date. > Susan Hedeen >

In light of my last posting, I feel in all honesty I must post this as well. As I am an adherent to some of the teachings of Diogenes there shall be a third posting at a future date as yet undetermined. Len from FTDNA: "Hello Mr. McCartney Thank you for your reply. I have requested that your re-run on this most recent attempt be expedited in the lab. Additionally, due to this extreme delay, we are also going to refund you the cost of the DF85 SNP test ($39), as a token of our sincere apologies for any inconvenience this has caused. Your DF 85 test will continue to run in the lab until satisfactory results are derived. Again, we apologize for this delay and appreciate your attention to this matter."

135550 Milligan has ordered BIG Y. Susan Milligan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda McKee" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 5:30 AM Subject: [R-M222] BIG Y orders > 43598.......Lane > > 167382......McDonald > > > > From SOA Project > N44383......Tate > > From MacKay Project > 100137......McCoy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Here is the list I've got for M222 people. f135550 Milligan f229652 Williams f43598 Lane f47582 Leonard f88905 Degnen fN108400 Joyce Am I missing anybody? This could be a great test for discovering additional breakdowns within M222. M222 is the kind of group that really needs more SNPs. There are just a lot of people in M222 that amazingly closely related when compared to the rest of the Y DNA phylogenetic tree. You might want to look for an Z2961+ M222- guy to test too. Any SNPs in common between that person and M222 would be upstream of M222 so you could filter those out for future testing. There is one DF49+ L23- so that helps a little. f117897 Stedman Mike W

43598.......Lane 167382......McDonald From SOA Project N44383......Tate From MacKay Project 100137......McCoy

31881.........Ferguson......DF85 Please let me know if I have not posted your order. Thanks, Linda

Hi Bernard, Genetically I am closely associated with the Doherty clann, including historical links between what apparently is my family and theirs, some of the members of my apparent family are known to have migrated by boat to the southern and to the inner Hebrides islands, and my haplogroup, L21+, M222+, R1b1a2a1a1b4b can be found there, too. And I would be delighted to hear of any such results you might discover! Doug On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 2:06 PM, Susan Hedeen < [email protected]> wrote: > Dear Allene, > Yes, you should order df97 for your df85+ result to see if it is +or- > for df97. > Both Milliken/Milligan results are df85 neg; hence what we may be > looking at between the similarities in haplotypes between these McAdam > and the one Milligan group is probably due to haplotype convergence. > This happens and due to the random mutation process of the alleles. > > That said, other Milliken/Milligan from both branches -- haplotypes > diverse from those of the two who have tested already-- should test for > df85. The same must be said for the O'Doherty groups--I noticed that > there is at least one more testing for df85. Keep in mind that those of > these large surname groups with haplotypes diverse from those who have > already tested should investigate at least df85 to make certain that > these surname lineages are not split by the SNPs. We already know that > there are splits in the O'Dochartaigh; there are splits in the McConechy > groups... > > The Gallowglass story is interesting. Save that and the citation > reference, please. Susan Hedeen > > On 11/13/2013 1:24 PM, Allene Goforth wrote: > > Should I now order DF97? Have any of the Milligans ordered DF97 yet? > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I have just ordered DF97 for MacAdam Kit 88644. Allene

> > .... The local genealogists in the Arisaig area of the Highlands swear > by that story and another one that relates how this gallowglass was given > land at nearby Glenuig as a reward for helping Clan Donald win the battle > that ended the reign of the Lords of the Isles. Reminds me of this tale I found: "...  Clanranald territories of Benbecula and South Uist and not in the otherwise 'more Norse' islands to the North. The MacPhersons in those latter islands are probably mostly descendants of the 'Red Parson' an O'Docherty mercenary soldier priest who led the gallowglass element of the forces of Uisdean MacDonald when he took over part of Skye and established Clan Donald North in about 1369. Those MacPhersons settled in Trotternish in Skye and as the Liosadair or linen workers, later spread southwards to North Uist and Benbecula." I known of at least one McPherson (103531) who is M222.

It's the very least I could do for our iarooster........ ;-) > From: Larry Slavens <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Interesting...... attn: Larry Slavens > Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 18:13:08 -0600 (GMT-06:00)

>From: Linda McKee <[email protected]> > >Larry, > >I am just now seeing your post.........I actually made those additions >myself in an effort to identify on the excel those who are pending more >than one test in more than one area. > >Linda Well shucks, so much for the conspiracy theories. No problem on the notation. Larry

Understandably so...If the next sample also fails, they have been known to send you a kit free of charge for you to return fresh samples. You might like to request that. Susan On 11/13/2013 5:11 PM, Len McC wrote: > In response to a query 11/12/2013 re: order for DF85 placed 8/18/2013, > FTDNA replied as follows: > > "Thank you for your email. SNP tests usually take about 6-8 weeks to > complete. However, we have tried to test your sample multiple times, and > each attempt has resulted in a result that does not pass the quality > control standards set for our lab. We are going to try one more time on > an unopened vial of your DNA sample. We should know if this latest > attempt is successful in about 4 weeks. We greatly appreciate your > attention to this matter." > > I am LESS than thrilled ! > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Cunniff kit 27202 is DF85-, DF97- - DJ.

Susan, I will order the df97 this evening. I hadn't realized the Milliken/Milligan results were df85 negative! I'm having trouble keeping up with the flow of new results. Very interesting! I have struggled to understand my Lowland connections, which never made any sense to me. Lowland shepherds did come up to my ancestral grounds in the 1700s with the sheep. I found such a McAdam family about 30 miles east of where my line was, but they returned to the Lowlands later on after the area started moving more to hunting estates, and my own line had been there for a long time before they ever showed up. I will post to the list later on the Irish gallowglass and provide the links I have for him. Allene Message: 6 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 14:06:04 -0500 From: Susan Hedeen <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Another New DF85 Result To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Dear Allene, Yes, you should order df97 for your df85+ result to see if it is +or- for df97. Both Milliken/Milligan results are df85 neg; hence what we may be looking at between the similarities in haplotypes between these McAdam and the one Milligan group is probably due to haplotype convergence. This happens and due to the random mutation process of the alleles. The Gallowglass story is interesting. Save that and the citation reference, please. Susan Hedeen On 11/13/2013 1:24 PM, Allene Goforth wrote: > Should I now order DF97? Have any of the Milligans ordered DF97 yet? >

Antony Joseph Connor > > Kit Number: 114467 > > Test: DF85