Paul We are probably not far away in thinking. I have read some of the archaeological studies relating to Ireland and I have read up on the Connachta. You will be aware of the Cath Maige Mucrama or the battle of Mag Mucrime? This piece of mythology formed part of the Cycle of Kings and is believed to have been written as early as the 9th century with the earliest copy preserved in the Book of Leinster. I presume this is one of the Connachta tales you refer to? The context of this tale although set in Ireland had Lugaid Mac Con seeking out help from the king of Alba or Scots. There is one passage in it that refers to the Alba, and the coast of the Saxons and the Britons. To me, this tale was probably written at a time or at least when it was still remembered the Scots held what is referred to as Dal Riata in southern Argyllshire, the Britons of the old king of Al Clut (destroyed by the Norse), a kingdom later called Strathclyde, and the Saxons of Northumbria who occupied parts of south Ayrshire, Galloway and Dumfriesshire. In the tale, Lugaid brought an army from the land of the Scots and met his opponent in battle in the plain of Mag Mucrime in Connacht. Your example of Tuathal is a good example of an invasion and conquest that took the Midlands of Ireland and does raise the question about where he came from in Northern Britain. I have a copy of O'Rahilly's Earl Irish History and Mythology and he has a chapter devoted to Tuathal Teachtmar. I note his comment about the Goidel, "the learned authors of that elaborate fiction, the invasion of the Sons of Mil, and the genealogy-makers who collaborated with them, were animated by the desire to invest the Goidelic occupation of Ireland with an antiquity to which it was entitled neither in fact or tradition; for only in this way would it be feasible to provide a Goidelic descent for tribes of non-Goidelic origin, and to unify the divergent ethnic elements in the country by tracing them back to a common ancestor. Hence popular traditions concerning the Goidelic invaders had, before being admitted into the literature, to undergo some modification in order to make them harmonize with the new-fangled theory that Goedels had come to Ireland at a very remote period under the leader of the Sons of Mil. The genuine tradition concerning Tuathal told how he had led ancestors of the Midland Goidels to Ireland, and how he had overcome the non-Goidelic tribes who had hitherto ruled the country, and who henceforth were to be vassals of the Goidels". O'Rahilly also mentions another very interesting tradition in another chapter, which comes out of Connacht, 'the Fir Bolg of Connacht is recorded by Mac Liac in a poem in the dindshenchas of Carn Conaill. The people of Umor, under their king Oengus mac Umior, came from the 'land of the Cruithn' (i.e. Scotland) to Cairbre Nia Fer, who permitted them to settle on the lands of Brega, around Tara. Owing, however, to an intolerable tax which Cairbre imposed on them, they quitted these lands and journed westwards to Connacht'. The text has been fully translated and is on the Corpus of Electronic Texts. So here we have two very interesting connections with Connacht, one that directly connects the land of the Scots and the other through Tuathal said to be the ancestor of the Ui Neill and Connachta dynasties through his grandson Conn of the Hundred Battles. >From this perspective, I certainly agree with you, Northern Britain was an important migration pathway into the Northern half of Ireland and into Connacht. The Irish Annals certainly endorse that from almost the beginning of recorded history, there were close ties between southern Argyllshire and the descendents of Tuathal Teachtmar, the Ui Neill. For example, in or about AD 568 we read of an expedition by Colman Bec son of Diarmait, king of Tara, and Conaill son of Comgaill, king of the Coru Reti, later Dal Riata, into Iardoman possibly the Hebrides. Alan In a message dated 16/11/2013 13:44:07 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Alan, It's worth noting that the Connachta (Dál Cuinn) mythology talks about movement back and fro from Northern Britain. Particulary in the case of Tuathal Teachtmar. What's evident from archaelogy is that Ireland underwent a darkage from about 800-200BC. After 200BC we see influence creeping in from Northern Britain, but into the Northern half of Ireland. This kinda corresponds to the quasi-historical division of Ireland into two halves. Namely "Leath Cuinn" (Conn's half) and "Leath Mugh" (Mugh Nuadhat's half eg. Eoghain Mór of the Eoghanachta) http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/irelandlpria.jpg -Paul (DF41+) On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 1:23 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > David > > This must be one of those rare moments when you openly come out on this > forum and say what your thinking, and that is good thing, as people need > to > hear what is on mind of the Administrators of this forum. > > And - it is good to hear you are one of those people who thinks the odds > are better than 50-50 that M222 first appeared in Scotland. Since, I have > been working on the origins for sometime, could you indicate why you think > it > is better and what it is, as I have shared something privately with a few > others? > > You also make a statement "or Strathclyde, then moved to Ireland and > flourished before returning a few centuries later in some measure to what > we now > call Scotland". Who is saying it came from Strathclyde? Is it with > reference to that report published not that long ago, in which it was > claimed the > Milligan/Grierson DNA was connected to the Domnonii, regarded as being > ancestral to the old kingdom of Strathclyde. > > In the report a Map used by the late Nora Chadwick in 1971 was employed to > depict the boundaries of the Domnonii, which today with hindsight most > modern historians would not use, as the boundaries extend too far south > into > the territory of the Novantae and Selgovae, who occupied what is now > Galloway and Dumfriesshire during the Roman occupation of Britain. The > same can > also be said for Dr. Brian Skye's map, which is on the M222 Project, which > wrongly places southern Argyllshire in Strathclyde. Argyllshire was never > part > of Strathclyde. > > If James Wilson has found SNPs above the so call 'Niall', this is going to > re-write history. > > Alan > > > In a message dated 15/11/2013 20:57:14 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] > writes: > > Iain, I had to laugh at that. I wonder what could be learned from the > McKenzie who is even more modal than I am. > > My sample got to the lab only about a month ago, so I'm probably not going > to hear for another few weeks where I will be slotted. I'm hoping for news > by the end of the month, but who knows. > > I told Jim Wilson that I guessed I would be in the M222* paragroup or > maybe in S568. I am one of those who thinks the odds are better than > 50-50 that > M222 first appeared in Scotland or Strathclyde, then moved to Ireland and > flourished before returning a few centuries later in some measure to what > we now call Scotland. Then of course a couple of centuries after that the > original stay-at-home M222 Scots picked up and moved to Ulster when it made > sense for them to do so. That's when I'm guessing that my Wilson ancestors > parked themselves in the Bann River Valley. I don't see any evidence they > were in Ireland before the mid-17th century, though of course a lusty > Irish > lad may have been a patrilineal ancestor rather than one of the sober, > dour > Scots Wilsons who came to that green isle with their wives and daughters. > > Anyway, that's my hypothetical narrative of the moment. We'll see what the > SNPs say soon enough. > > Needless to say, I'm not persuaded by the "It all started in Mayo" school > of thought, but I'm persuadable if further evidence piles up that points > in > that direction. > > David Wilson > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yikes, Doug, would you like to lend me some $$$$$:-D))??? I was surprised by the FTDNA announcement of the 20+++ SNPs on a sliding scale upward as (if I recall the original Geno2) was reported to have considerably fewer speculative M222 down stream SNPs on it. That said, we know that Geno2 chip had some transformations; what exactly those were I haven't heard specifically; but reading between the lines of the various reports of probes failing, no calls, bad calls, and SNPs apparently dropped from it over the last year, we must suspect that perhaps they clarified some--that is with the testing results it became more clear the positions of some which had not been fully vetted when added, and if they altered the chip any--which we do not know beyond the the suggestion of removal of some SNPs (whether it was total removal or simply not reporting on them because of the difficulties with them)--did they add others to fill in? I don't know, perhaps some of the guys closer to that testing might know---probably David Reynolds may know. I suppose when the papers are made available for all of us to read in total and attempt to clarify, etc, that we may have a better idea. That said, it seems that the Big Y will include the 20+++ what ever the final number as known SNPs while attempting to sequence more, many of the new ones probably being younger and quite possibly private and/or semi private SNPs. As for Chromo2, it seems that with some of them (we know S675/df85) have been vetted reasonably well with the greatest majority of them having question marks as to both positions as well as disposition. I believe I heard the phrases "we thinK" "looks like maybe" with questions as to not knowing particulars as to which are clade dividing and which may be private and/or semi-private, etc. So keeping it into perspective, despite Wilson's M222 draft tree, it is yet very much a draft being investigated; and he has clearly said that the sample pool is yet very small, even too small to firmly know some of these things. Testing more will tell. Any any case, our investigations through all 3 products, whether BigY, Chromo2, or Geno2 are yet the scientists investigations and research as well. With that in mind, eeny, meeny, mineey, moe...but I think Chromo2, which is the same technology as Geno2, is quite possibly more informative to us than Geno2 has been for us...at least as far as we know. Wilson claims that the SNPs on Chromo2 are different than the Geno2 SNPs (except for df85, df97 not on it but suggested to be close to S668--apparently both are now on Geno2 --unless I've misinterpreted something). We have only his word for that...are they different because they truly are different? or are they different because they've been labelled differently? I hope they are different because they indeed are different--he knows the positions and the primer properties for the Geno2 SNPs. I suspect with the lack of all around transparency that the best information for us is going to be the best comparisons possible among the results from all 3 products--I very easily can envision a scenario that what we believe we are seeing with the Chromo2 results rolling out being further clarified by at least BigY, and maybe Geno2 as well depending. It is unknown whether or not BigY will knowingly have any of the Chromo2 SNPs--as far as I know the details of these Chromo2 SNPs have not been released to anyone (with exception of df85/df97); however we do not know whether or not those researching the SNPs for BigY may have ID'd the same SNPs which are being offered under other names by FTDNA. With the further sequencing possibilities of BigY, those not already ID'd may become ID'd with hopefully the most promising being added to the single SNP testing program under FTDNA--that's on my wish list. To echo your sentiment, Doug, indeed it is annoying, but then these entities are in competition with one another, so each is vying for market share, discovery, publishing, probable grant money and/or endorsements, etc., and despite the need to have some standardization and firm guidelines established governing them, it is understandable as things exist now. I hope this helps you with your decision as to what you think you may want to do...I do not feel that I can give a recommendation beyond laying out what seem to be close to our understandings about what is and/or isn't facts. Susan Hedeen On 11/16/2013 8:49 PM, tuulen wrote: > My question is do I take the Chromo2 test or the Big Y test, or both of > those tests? > > In other words, what could one of those tests do which the other test could > not do? > > Doug > As a consumer, let me say that I am annoyed at this lack of clarity. At > this time I have the option of taking the ScotlandsDNA Chromo2 test and/or > the FTDNA Big Y test, but could they essentially duplicate each other? > > Doug > > > On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Iain Kennedy > <[email protected]>wrote: > > This number of 'new' Geno M222 SNPs must set some kind of record for the > number of times it's changed > > It still fails to make any sense since all the ones on the diagram from > their talk are already on the Geno 2.0 chip (I checked each one manually in > my Geno file) and no SNP on the chip is new in any meaningful sense of the > word anyway... unless the database also has data that was obtained by some > other method than the Geno 2.0 chip which I'm not aware of. In which case > their list of SNP names was wrong. > > Not to mention the question of how they will get them through > qualification for the ISOGG tree (see the criteria I posted the other day) > without transferring them to FTDNA and manually checking STR diversity, for > which each tester would have to have a set of STRs which at this stage they > probably don't. > > I give up. Until they reveal all, tomorrow. > > Iain > > On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 2:56 PM, Linda McKee <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Welcome to the latest M222+ BIG Y: >> >> Thomas Howle........56154..R-L21+ M222+ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

>From an article in a back issue of Irish Geography written by T . Jones Hughes of University College Dublin that I found on the internet: "At a time when all seemed lost to the Gael in Cooley, the peninsula- in common with parts of north Leinster and north Connacht, especially those areas of the drumlin belt that lay adjacent to the planted counties of Ulster- came, from the seventeenth century to act as areas of refuge for the dispossessed. Large family groups such as those bearing the names Rice, Traynor, MacCann and O'Neill, which were so numerous in the mountain localities of Omeath, Glenmore and Ballymackellet in the nineteenth century, could trace their ancestry to Armagh, Tyrone, Derry and even to Donegal." In the 1901 census a number of the older inhabitants of the area who were born in Co. Louth have put down that they speak Irish as well as English, including a 60 year old Patrick McBride living in Rampark.

My question is do I take the Chromo2 test or the Big Y test, or both of those tests? In other words, what could one of those tests do which the other test could not do? Doug On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 2:56 PM, Linda McKee <[email protected]> wrote: > Welcome to the latest M222+ BIG Y: > > Thomas Howle........56154..R-L21+ M222+ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

_blunston.html - Freepages - Ancestry.com_ (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~helmsnc/blunston.html) freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~helmsnc/bluns... - _Similar_ (http://search.aol.com/aol/search?s_it=similarPages.search&v_t=client_searchbox &o_q=William+dunbar++Carlisle,+Pa+1730&q=related:freepages.genealogy.rootswe b.ancestry.com/~helmsnc/blunston.html+William+dunbar++Carlisle,+Pa+1730) to blunston.html - Freepages - Ancestry.com In addition, William Penn really did not have a treaty with the Indians to do so, either. So for a long time the Land Office was closed. However, in the 1730's the Penns gave Samuel Blunston authority to issue land deeds in ... Polk records have been found near Carlisle, Pennsylvania having moved there .... Dunbar, William . _[ More results from freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com _ (http://search.aol.com/aol/search?s_it=moreResultFrom.search&v_t=client_searchbox&q=s ite:freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com+William+dunbar++Carlisle,+Pa+1 730)

As a consumer, let me say that I am annoyed at this lack of clarity. At this time I have the option of taking the ScotlandsDNA Chromo2 test and/or the FTDNA Big Y test, but could they essentially duplicate each other? Doug On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Iain Kennedy <[email protected]>wrote: > This number of 'new' Geno M222 SNPs must set some kind of record for the > number of times it's changed ;-) > > It still fails to make any sense since all the ones on the diagram from > their talk are already on the Geno 2.0 chip (I checked each one manually in > my Geno file) and no SNP on the chip is new in any meaningful sense of the > word anyway... unless the database also has data that was obtained by some > other method than the Geno 2.0 chip which I'm not aware of. In which case > their list of SNP names was wrong. > > Not to mention the question of how they will get them through > qualification for the ISOGG tree (see the criteria I posted the other day) > without transferring them to FTDNA and manually checking STR diversity, for > which each tester would have to have a set of STRs which at this stage they > probably don't. > > I give up. Until they reveal all, tomorrow. > > Iain > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:46:06 -0600 > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [R-M222] A quote from Robert Brooks Casey R1b-L21 at yahoo forum > > > > > 3) Since the CROMO2 test does not publish the YChr positions to the > > > public, many very meaningful YSNPs under R-L21 (and other English > > > speaking origins) can only be tested at English DNA. With the flood > > > of Full Genomes and Big Y tests, many of these YSNPs will be > > > identified to become available for FTDNA testing. FTDNA also > > > announced that several thousand new YSNPs were discovered by data > > > mining the "entire" Nat Geo 2.0 database (not just those transferred > > > to FTDNA). They stated another ten R-M222 YSNPs were found in this > > > method - now up to around 24 YSNPs under R-M222. Of the 25,000 static > > > YSNPs being tested, many more came from other academic sources (and > > > probably some from early Full Genomes results). Many of these will > > > add to the ISOGG haplotree as did the Nat Geo 2.0 tests have. > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Mike, Yes but I've already kindly offered to do that for everyone here anyway, and add them to the correct location in my M222 diagram - only fair since I was the main person who kept telling everyone to buy the Raw version of the test. :-) Iain > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:41:29 -0600 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Chromo2 Raw Results s588 > > Iain, > > Do you have a copy of what the "signature" looks like? or whatever they are > calling the list of positive(derived) SNPs. Is it something you can > copy/paste into an email like this? Essentially, that would be the > equivalent of an FTDNA project Y DNA SNP report display. I have mechanism > to read those strings and filter them to come up with the "defining" (or > terminal) SNP and other relevant SNPs in a logical sequence. > > Regards, > Mike W > > Mike W > > > On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 1:13 AM, Iain Kennedy <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Walter, > > > > If you ordered the raw version you can download a .txt file whose format I > > described last month in this post: > > > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DNA-R1B1C7/2013-10/1381923024 > > > > and that is what we examine. You get it by logging in to your account and > > clicking the Download button. I can't say for sure that Steve has a > > downloadable file (yet). If he doesn't he can email > > [email protected] and they should be able to send it him. > > > > Iain > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 00:02:57 -0500 > > > From: [email protected] > > > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Chromo2 Raw Results s588 > > > > > > Exactly what do your results look like? What is the format? What data > > > are you given? How do you access it? Are the designations like S588 > > > meaningful such as ATCG (pick one), derived or ancestral), base pair > > > indexed, or rs number indexed? > > > > > > Was the terminal SNP all that you were given back? > > > > > > I am very interested in running a extended Y-SNP test to compare against > > > Steve Lominac, whom I spoke to earlier this evening. But Steve has seen > > > no data from his test. Apparently it was run through Sandy Patterson, > > > but Steve has not received access to his data file nor his data. > > > > > > I match Steve 104/111 Y-DNA and we are both SNP tested for R-M222. There > > > is a complicated Gordian knot of Freemans, Lominacs, Gills, Sudduth, and > > > Nutters all of who are close Y-matches and all of whom have some sort of > > > connection to the area between present day Culpepper (formerly > > > Fairfield) Culpepper Co, Virginia and Warrenton, Fauquier County > > > Virginia. My family tradition is that we are of Irish descent, though > > > my earliest known ancestor is a Samuel Freeman b ~1760 +/- whose parents > > > and connection to Ireland are unknown at present. > > > > > > I am most interested in comparing SNPs with Steve who so far seems to be > > > ancestral for R-M222, and am considering the Big Y test at FTDNA, which > > > seems to be another "pig-in-a-poke" for the moment though it is a > > > Y-sequence test and not a chip test, know one knows what data or what > > > format a customer will get for his money. I suspect that that test is > > > in beta, though FTDNA has not used that language, but they have not been > > > forthcoming with any details either. And we know that they recently > > > fired the guy, Thomas Krahn, who built their in-house laboratory and > > > designed the Big Y test! > > > > > > I am most interested to see where this all leads and what we can learn > > > possibly about our Irish origins. > > > > > > So what does your data return from BritainsDNA Chromo2 consist of and > > > what does it look like? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Walter Freeman > > > > > > > > > On 11/15/2013 2:42 PM, Robert McBride wrote: > > > > Just received my Chromo2 results and my terminal snp is s588. > > > > > > > > Earliest known ancestor Arthur McBride, lived Rampark, Cooley > > peninsula, died aged 92 in 1879 in Dundalk, County Louth > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This number of 'new' Geno M222 SNPs must set some kind of record for the number of times it's changed ;-) It still fails to make any sense since all the ones on the diagram from their talk are already on the Geno 2.0 chip (I checked each one manually in my Geno file) and no SNP on the chip is new in any meaningful sense of the word anyway... unless the database also has data that was obtained by some other method than the Geno 2.0 chip which I'm not aware of. In which case their list of SNP names was wrong. Not to mention the question of how they will get them through qualification for the ISOGG tree (see the criteria I posted the other day) without transferring them to FTDNA and manually checking STR diversity, for which each tester would have to have a set of STRs which at this stage they probably don't. I give up. Until they reveal all, tomorrow. Iain > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:46:06 -0600 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: [R-M222] A quote from Robert Brooks Casey R1b-L21 at yahoo forum > > > 3) Since the CROMO2 test does not publish the YChr positions to the > > public, many very meaningful YSNPs under R-L21 (and other English > > speaking origins) can only be tested at English DNA. With the flood > > of Full Genomes and Big Y tests, many of these YSNPs will be > > identified to become available for FTDNA testing. FTDNA also > > announced that several thousand new YSNPs were discovered by data > > mining the "entire" Nat Geo 2.0 database (not just those transferred > > to FTDNA). They stated another ten R-M222 YSNPs were found in this > > method - now up to around 24 YSNPs under R-M222. Of the 25,000 static > > YSNPs being tested, many more came from other academic sources (and > > probably some from early Full Genomes results). Many of these will > > add to the ISOGG haplotree as did the Nat Geo 2.0 tests have. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Paul. There are only one or two other McBrides in the M222 group but there a number of others who are m222+ or NWI modal in the surname project. My nearest match is a distance of 7 at 67. Supposedly the first McBride was descended from the Dohertys so I wonder if most m222+ McBrides might be df97+ and not s588+. Regards Rob ======================================== Message Received: Nov 15 2013, 09:12 PM From: "Paul Ó Duḃṫaiġ" To: "Robert McBride" , [email protected] Cc: Subject: Re: [R-M222] Chromo2 Raw Results s588 Robert, Congrats on the result S588 appears to be a parallel clade to DF85. See Iain Kennedy's tree here: http://www.kennedydna.com/M222.pdf Woulfe has the following in his 1923 book on your surname: --- Mac GIOLLA BHRÍGHDE—IV —*M'Gillebridy, M'Gillvrid, M'Killbridy, M'Elvride*, MacGillbride, MacKilbride, Macklebreed, MacBride, Gillbride, Kilbride, &c.; 'son of Giolla Bhríghde' (servant of St. Brigid). This surname was formerly found in many parts of Ireland, notably in the North, where it is still common under the anglicised form of MacBride, having been shortened in the spoken language to Mac 'a Bhríghde, for which *compare with* Mac Giolla Bhuidhe below. --- Regards -Paul (DF41+) On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Robert McBride wrote: > Just received my Chromo2 results and my terminal snp is s588. > > Earliest known ancestor Arthur McBride, lived Rampark, Cooley peninsula, > died aged 92 in 1879 in Dundalk, County Louth > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Walter, I quoted the S SNPs exactly as they appear, I'm sure you know with your knowledge that you can look these all up on the ISOGG tree - for the benefit of others I posted the link the other day: http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html I am happy to analyse peoples files for them if they don't want the fiddle, on the other hand if you are going to dive in then you may as well familiarise yourself with some of the alternative names. Not an issue for the sub-M222 SNPs apart from the well known S675=DF85. The total number of SNP data rows in mine is 14173, ditto Robert McBride's. Wasn't there a similar issue with the call values in some Geno files? Anyway there is some text at the start of the file which reads thus: "A small number of markers give apparent heterozygote calls, e.g. AG. As shown in the result column, these indicate a positive call. The reason they appear to be heterozygous is again because of limitations in the Illumina clustering software, which expects three clusters. If the true positive and negative clusters are too close together, it is not possible to force a homozygous call for the one variant, hence an AG call is allowed. Our downstream scripts register this as a positive call." regards Iain > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 08:04:59 -0500 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Chromo2 Raw Results s588 > > Thanks, Iain. > > I must have missed your 16 Oct post on the Chromo2 raw file format, or > rather was not in the frame of mind at that moment to adsorb that bit of > information. > > I do remember some discussion on this list of form issues with the > Chromo2 data and perhaps a bit of an air of disappointment that the data > (if as represented below) is not more like what we are used to seeing in > a raw file format from 23andMe or FTDNA where there is a reference to > the chain position of a SNP and possibly a human genome reference > sequence number as well as the SNP call. > > "S" designations as you show below are not particularly enlightening, > possibly because of lack of familiarity with them on my part. To > paraphrase, "A SNP by any other name is still a SNP," I suppose except > that since much of this is more abstract than your basic rose, it is a > bit harder to understand. > > In the data below, I suppose I am puzzled by the heterozygous calls of > S116 and S474. Since there is only one DNA strand and not two, unlike > for chromosomes in the autosome, I can understand the homozygous calls > for the remaining SNPs shown below as being double letters owing to chip > read software programming etc. But why "AC" and why "AG" for S116 and S474? > > And a further question: How many lines (or SNP calls) of text in the > Chromo2 raw file? Tens? Hundreds? Thousands? > > Walter > > On 11/16/2013 4:30 AM, Iain Kennedy wrote: > > For those who want to look at their SNP hierarchy it should look like this in part: > > > > S116 AC positive > > S145 GG positive > > S474 AG positive > > S193 AA positive > > Z2961 AA positive > > > > and then the SNPs in the Wilson tree/diagram. However note that you will not see M222 itself: there may be an equivalent or closeby SNP but Dr. Wilson is still double checking this. > > > > Iain > > > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 07:13:35 +0000 > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Chromo2 Raw Results s588 > > > > Walter, > > > > If you ordered the raw version you can download a .txt file whose format I described last month in this post: > > > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DNA-R1B1C7/2013-10/1381923024 > > > > and that is what we examine. You get it by logging in to your account and clicking the Download button. I can't say for sure that Steve has a downloadable file (yet). If he doesn't he can email [email protected] and they should be able to send it him. > > > > Iain > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Just to clarify that what I was posted was a partial skeleton SNP hierarchy that I reconstructed myself. It is nothing like the full one you could reconstruct from your file if you so desired. But you are right that S521 isn't there. In answer to your second question, I have already posted the all the data columns in the file. :-) cheers Iain > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 12:46:31 +0000 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Chromo2 Raw Results s588 > > S116 = P312 (R1b1a2a1a2) > S146 = L21 (R1b1a2a1a2c) > S474 = DF49 (R1b1a2a1a2c1a) > S193 = DF23 (R1b1a2a1a2c1a1) > > They don't seem to have DF13 (S521 -- R1b1a2a1a2c1) > > Do they give any information regarding the position of the SNP on the Y > chromosome? The only way we'll be able to check S588 (and S560 and S561) > against public databases (1000 genomes etc.) will be if we know the > location of the SNP and the "state change" involved (I'm probably using the > wrong term here!) > > -Paul > (DF41+) > > > > On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Iain Kennedy <[email protected]>wrote: > > > For those who want to look at their SNP hierarchy it should look like this > > in part: > > > > S116 AC positive > > S145 GG positive > > S474 AG positive > > S193 AA positive > > Z2961 AA positive > > > > and then the SNPs in the Wilson tree/diagram. However note that you will > > not see M222 itself: there may be an equivalent or closeby SNP but Dr. > > Wilson is still double checking this. > > > > Iain > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 07:13:35 +0000 > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Chromo2 Raw Results s588 > > > > > > Walter, > > > > > > If you ordered the raw version you can download a .txt file whose format > > I described last month in this post: > > > > > > > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DNA-R1B1C7/2013-10/1381923024 > > > > > > and that is what we examine. You get it by logging in to your account > > and clicking the Download button. I can't say for sure that Steve has a > > downloadable file (yet). If he doesn't he can email > > [email protected] and they should be able to send it him. > > > > > > Iain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 00:02:57 -0500 > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Chromo2 Raw Results s588 > > > > > > > > Exactly what do your results look like? What is the format? What data > > > > are you given? How do you access it? Are the designations like S588 > > > > meaningful such as ATCG (pick one), derived or ancestral), base pair > > > > indexed, or rs number indexed? > > > > > > > > Was the terminal SNP all that you were given back? > > > > > > > > I am very interested in running a extended Y-SNP test to compare > > against > > > > Steve Lominac, whom I spoke to earlier this evening. But Steve has > > seen > > > > no data from his test. Apparently it was run through Sandy Patterson, > > > > but Steve has not received access to his data file nor his data. > > > > > > > > I match Steve 104/111 Y-DNA and we are both SNP tested for R-M222. > > There > > > > is a complicated Gordian knot of Freemans, Lominacs, Gills, Sudduth, > > and > > > > Nutters all of who are close Y-matches and all of whom have some sort > > of > > > > connection to the area between present day Culpepper (formerly > > > > Fairfield) Culpepper Co, Virginia and Warrenton, Fauquier County > > > > Virginia. My family tradition is that we are of Irish descent, though > > > > my earliest known ancestor is a Samuel Freeman b ~1760 +/- whose > > parents > > > > and connection to Ireland are unknown at present. > > > > > > > > I am most interested in comparing SNPs with Steve who so far seems to > > be > > > > ancestral for R-M222, and am considering the Big Y test at FTDNA, which > > > > seems to be another "pig-in-a-poke" for the moment though it is a > > > > Y-sequence test and not a chip test, know one knows what data or what > > > > format a customer will get for his money. I suspect that that test is > > > > in beta, though FTDNA has not used that language, but they have not > > been > > > > forthcoming with any details either. And we know that they recently > > > > fired the guy, Thomas Krahn, who built their in-house laboratory and > > > > designed the Big Y test! > > > > > > > > I am most interested to see where this all leads and what we can learn > > > > possibly about our Irish origins. > > > > > > > > So what does your data return from BritainsDNA Chromo2 consist of and > > > > what does it look like? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Walter Freeman > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11/15/2013 2:42 PM, Robert McBride wrote: > > > > > Just received my Chromo2 results and my terminal snp is s588. > > > > > > > > > > Earliest known ancestor Arthur McBride, lived Rampark, Cooley > > peninsula, died aged 92 in 1879 in Dundalk, County Louth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Welcome to the latest M222+ BIG Y: Thomas Howle........56154..R-L21+ M222+

Alan, It's worth noting that the Connachta (Dál Cuinn) mythology talks about movement back and fro from Northern Britain. Particulary in the case of Tuathal Teachtmar. What's evident from archaelogy is that Ireland underwent a darkage from about 800-200BC. After 200BC we see influence creeping in from Northern Britain, but into the Northern half of Ireland. This kinda corresponds to the quasi-historical division of Ireland into two halves. Namely "Leath Cuinn" (Conn's half) and "Leath Mugh" (Mugh Nuadhat's half eg. Eoghain Mór of the Eoghanachta) http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/irelandlpria.jpg -Paul (DF41+) On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 1:23 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > David > > This must be one of those rare moments when you openly come out on this > forum and say what your thinking, and that is good thing, as people need > to > hear what is on mind of the Administrators of this forum. > > And - it is good to hear you are one of those people who thinks the odds > are better than 50-50 that M222 first appeared in Scotland. Since, I have > been working on the origins for sometime, could you indicate why you think > it > is better and what it is, as I have shared something privately with a few > others? > > You also make a statement "or Strathclyde, then moved to Ireland and > flourished before returning a few centuries later in some measure to what > we now > call Scotland". Who is saying it came from Strathclyde? Is it with > reference to that report published not that long ago, in which it was > claimed the > Milligan/Grierson DNA was connected to the Domnonii, regarded as being > ancestral to the old kingdom of Strathclyde. > > In the report a Map used by the late Nora Chadwick in 1971 was employed to > depict the boundaries of the Domnonii, which today with hindsight most > modern historians would not use, as the boundaries extend too far south > into > the territory of the Novantae and Selgovae, who occupied what is now > Galloway and Dumfriesshire during the Roman occupation of Britain. The > same can > also be said for Dr. Brian Skye's map, which is on the M222 Project, which > wrongly places southern Argyllshire in Strathclyde. Argyllshire was never > part > of Strathclyde. > > If James Wilson has found SNPs above the so call 'Niall', this is going to > re-write history. > > Alan > > > In a message dated 15/11/2013 20:57:14 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] > writes: > > Iain, I had to laugh at that. I wonder what could be learned from the > McKenzie who is even more modal than I am. > > My sample got to the lab only about a month ago, so I'm probably not going > to hear for another few weeks where I will be slotted. I'm hoping for news > by the end of the month, but who knows. > > I told Jim Wilson that I guessed I would be in the M222* paragroup or > maybe in S568. I am one of those who thinks the odds are better than > 50-50 that > M222 first appeared in Scotland or Strathclyde, then moved to Ireland and > flourished before returning a few centuries later in some measure to what > we now call Scotland. Then of course a couple of centuries after that the > original stay-at-home M222 Scots picked up and moved to Ulster when it made > sense for them to do so. That's when I'm guessing that my Wilson ancestors > parked themselves in the Bann River Valley. I don't see any evidence they > were in Ireland before the mid-17th century, though of course a lusty > Irish > lad may have been a patrilineal ancestor rather than one of the sober, > dour > Scots Wilsons who came to that green isle with their wives and daughters. > > Anyway, that's my hypothetical narrative of the moment. We'll see what the > SNPs say soon enough. > > Needless to say, I'm not persuaded by the "It all started in Mayo" school > of thought, but I'm persuadable if further evidence piles up that points > in > that direction. > > David Wilson > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

S116 = P312 (R1b1a2a1a2) S146 = L21 (R1b1a2a1a2c) S474 = DF49 (R1b1a2a1a2c1a) S193 = DF23 (R1b1a2a1a2c1a1) They don't seem to have DF13 (S521 -- R1b1a2a1a2c1) Do they give any information regarding the position of the SNP on the Y chromosome? The only way we'll be able to check S588 (and S560 and S561) against public databases (1000 genomes etc.) will be if we know the location of the SNP and the "state change" involved (I'm probably using the wrong term here!) -Paul (DF41+) On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Iain Kennedy <[email protected]>wrote: > For those who want to look at their SNP hierarchy it should look like this > in part: > > S116 AC positive > S145 GG positive > S474 AG positive > S193 AA positive > Z2961 AA positive > > and then the SNPs in the Wilson tree/diagram. However note that you will > not see M222 itself: there may be an equivalent or closeby SNP but Dr. > Wilson is still double checking this. > > Iain > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 07:13:35 +0000 > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Chromo2 Raw Results s588 > > > > Walter, > > > > If you ordered the raw version you can download a .txt file whose format > I described last month in this post: > > > > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DNA-R1B1C7/2013-10/1381923024 > > > > and that is what we examine. You get it by logging in to your account > and clicking the Download button. I can't say for sure that Steve has a > downloadable file (yet). If he doesn't he can email > [email protected] and they should be able to send it him. > > > > Iain > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 00:02:57 -0500 > > > From: [email protected] > > > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Chromo2 Raw Results s588 > > > > > > Exactly what do your results look like? What is the format? What data > > > are you given? How do you access it? Are the designations like S588 > > > meaningful such as ATCG (pick one), derived or ancestral), base pair > > > indexed, or rs number indexed? > > > > > > Was the terminal SNP all that you were given back? > > > > > > I am very interested in running a extended Y-SNP test to compare > against > > > Steve Lominac, whom I spoke to earlier this evening. But Steve has > seen > > > no data from his test. Apparently it was run through Sandy Patterson, > > > but Steve has not received access to his data file nor his data. > > > > > > I match Steve 104/111 Y-DNA and we are both SNP tested for R-M222. > There > > > is a complicated Gordian knot of Freemans, Lominacs, Gills, Sudduth, > and > > > Nutters all of who are close Y-matches and all of whom have some sort > of > > > connection to the area between present day Culpepper (formerly > > > Fairfield) Culpepper Co, Virginia and Warrenton, Fauquier County > > > Virginia. My family tradition is that we are of Irish descent, though > > > my earliest known ancestor is a Samuel Freeman b ~1760 +/- whose > parents > > > and connection to Ireland are unknown at present. > > > > > > I am most interested in comparing SNPs with Steve who so far seems to > be > > > ancestral for R-M222, and am considering the Big Y test at FTDNA, which > > > seems to be another "pig-in-a-poke" for the moment though it is a > > > Y-sequence test and not a chip test, know one knows what data or what > > > format a customer will get for his money. I suspect that that test is > > > in beta, though FTDNA has not used that language, but they have not > been > > > forthcoming with any details either. And we know that they recently > > > fired the guy, Thomas Krahn, who built their in-house laboratory and > > > designed the Big Y test! > > > > > > I am most interested to see where this all leads and what we can learn > > > possibly about our Irish origins. > > > > > > So what does your data return from BritainsDNA Chromo2 consist of and > > > what does it look like? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Walter Freeman > > > > > > > > > On 11/15/2013 2:42 PM, Robert McBride wrote: > > > > Just received my Chromo2 results and my terminal snp is s588. > > > > > > > > Earliest known ancestor Arthur McBride, lived Rampark, Cooley > peninsula, died aged 92 in 1879 in Dundalk, County Louth > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Wished I could find this kind of information on my 5th great Grandfather William Dunbar, he was born in or around Belfast some time in the 1700's sailing from I would suspect Belfast about 1728 to 1730 settlings just outside Carlisle, Pa at site called Meeting House Springs. I can not find his birth date , ship he may have sailed on . The Wiliam Dunbar listed I believe is the one that President Andrew Jack had surveying for the Louisiana Purchase. My 5th Great settled in Penn and was a farmer and a Tax collector and married my 5th great grandmother who I only know as Catherine. Anyone got any ideas" to many William Dunbar's out there. Also he had brother's Andrew and David. William (Billy) Dunbar In a message dated 11/16/2013 6:09:18 A.M. Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes: ID: I15690 Name: William Dunbar Sex: M Birth: 23 FEB 1752 in Belfast Ireland Death: 17 NOV 1798 in Steel Creek Barnwell District, South Carolina Burial: NOV 1798 Speedwell Methodist Church Cemetery Millett, Allendale County, South Carolina Note: George Robison Dunbar, married widow Sarah Middleton of Charlestown who had plenty of property of her own which she protected in a marriage agreement, copy available from SCDAH, book No. 2, page 13, about 1800, signed 7 July 1794. Dunbar was prominent in political affairs, serving in the Fourth General Assembly in 1782 for the District of Orangeburg between the Savannah River and the North Fork of the Edisto. He also served in the sixth and seventh general assemblies, 1785-1786 and 1787-1788. In 1788 he voted to ratify the Federal Constitution. He then represented the renamed district, Winton County, in the tenth general assembly 1792-1794. Dunbar family records as written in the Dehuff manuscripts available from the Beech Island Historical Society, Beech Island SC, state "William Dunbar was buried in the family cemetery at his home near the Savannah River above Old Ellenton. His tombstone read "Died 7th of November 1798 in the 46th year, 9th month and 16th day of his age." This tombstone disappeared before the removal of graves for the Savannah River Site in 1952. ************************************************* _Celebrate the Wedding at Middleton Place–in South Carolina! | ..._ (http://myroyalwedding.wordpress.com/2011/04/09/celebrate-the-wedding-at-mid dleton- place-in-south-carolina/) myroyalwedding.wordpress.com/.../celebrate-the-wedding-at-middleton- place-... Apr 9, 2011 ... Middleton Place, like most organizations this month, has decided to use the ... Celebrate the Wedding at Middleton Place–in South Carolina! ... Released; HRH The Duchess of Cambridge at 100 Women Hedge Funds Gala ... ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm not certain if this is pertinent to the question of calling and the "..." disclaimer mentioned, but one of the projects that have involved me in their analytical work has been having a time with no calls and what they believe are bad calls coming out of Geno2 which is the same technology as the Chromo2 chip. There seems disparity between the raw data down loaded and the calls or no calls presented in the transferred to FTDNA SNP report. I am not really involved in the argument between this project and FTDNA because it is their administrator and members dilemma, but they have involved me by keeping me abreast of the progress and/or lack there of in resolving the situation. I have seen the files and understand what the complaint is about. I'm wondering if indeed there is a similarity here with further question as to interpretation then of what the calls are actually, ie the disclaimer and then further interpretation by the geneticists reviewing Chromo2. I don't have an opinion as I'm certainly not qualified to have one, but...there is a question here me thinks. Susan Hedeen On 11/16/2013 10:13 AM, Iain Kennedy wrote: > Walter, > > I quoted the S SNPs exactly as they appear, I'm sure you know with your knowledge that you can look these all up on the ISOGG tree - for the benefit of others I posted the link the other day: > > http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html > > I am happy to analyse peoples files for them if they don't want the fiddle, on the other hand if you are going to dive in then you may as well familiarise yourself with some of the alternative names. Not an issue for the sub-M222 SNPs apart from the well known S675=DF85. > > The total number of SNP data rows in mine is 14173, ditto Robert McBride's. > > Wasn't there a similar issue with the call values in some Geno files? Anyway there is some text at the start of the file which reads thus: > > "A small number of markers give apparent heterozygote calls, e.g. AG. As shown in the result column, these indicate a positive call. The reason they appear to be heterozygous is again because of limitations in the Illumina clustering software, which expects three clusters. If the true positive and negative clusters are too close together, it is not possible to force a homozygous call for the one variant, hence an AG call is allowed. Our downstream scripts register this as a positive call." > > regards > > Iain > > > > > >> Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 08:04:59 -0500 >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Chromo2 Raw Results s588 >> >> Thanks, Iain. >> >> I must have missed your 16 Oct post on the Chromo2 raw file format, or >> rather was not in the frame of mind at that moment to adsorb that bit of >> information. >> >> I do remember some discussion on this list of form issues with the >> Chromo2 data and perhaps a bit of an air of disappointment that the data >> (if as represented below) is not more like what we are used to seeing in >> a raw file format from 23andMe or FTDNA where there is a reference to >> the chain position of a SNP and possibly a human genome reference >> sequence number as well as the SNP call. >> >> "S" designations as you show below are not particularly enlightening, >> possibly because of lack of familiarity with them on my part. To >> paraphrase, "A SNP by any other name is still a SNP," I suppose except >> that since much of this is more abstract than your basic rose, it is a >> bit harder to understand. >> >> In the data below, I suppose I am puzzled by the heterozygous calls of >> S116 and S474. Since there is only one DNA strand and not two, unlike >> for chromosomes in the autosome, I can understand the homozygous calls >> for the remaining SNPs shown below as being double letters owing to chip >> read software programming etc. But why "AC" and why "AG" for S116 and S474? >> >> And a further question: How many lines (or SNP calls) of text in the >> Chromo2 raw file? Tens? Hundreds? Thousands? >> >> Walter >> >> On 11/16/2013 4:30 AM, Iain Kennedy wrote: >>> For those who want to look at their SNP hierarchy it should look like this in part: >>> >>> S116 AC positive >>> S145 GG positive >>> S474 AG positive >>> S193 AA positive >>> Z2961 AA positive >>> >>> and then the SNPs in the Wilson tree/diagram. However note that you will not see M222 itself: there may be an equivalent or closeby SNP but Dr. Wilson is still double checking this. >>> >>> Iain >>> >>> From: [email protected] >>> To: [email protected] >>> Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 07:13:35 +0000 >>> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Chromo2 Raw Results s588 >>> >>> Walter, >>> >>> If you ordered the raw version you can download a .txt file whose format I described last month in this post: >>> >>> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DNA-R1B1C7/2013-10/1381923024 >>> >>> and that is what we examine. You get it by logging in to your account and clicking the Download button. I can't say for sure that Steve has a downloadable file (yet). If he doesn't he can email [email protected] and they should be able to send it him. >>> >>> Iain >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

> 3) Since the CROMO2 test does not publish the YChr positions to the > public, many very meaningful YSNPs under R-L21 (and other English > speaking origins) can only be tested at English DNA. With the flood > of Full Genomes and Big Y tests, many of these YSNPs will be > identified to become available for FTDNA testing. FTDNA also > announced that several thousand new YSNPs were discovered by data > mining the "entire" Nat Geo 2.0 database (not just those transferred > to FTDNA). They stated another ten R-M222 YSNPs were found in this > method - now up to around 24 YSNPs under R-M222. Of the 25,000 static > YSNPs being tested, many more came from other academic sources (and > probably some from early Full Genomes results). Many of these will > add to the ISOGG haplotree as did the Nat Geo 2.0 tests have. >

Iain, Do you have a copy of what the "signature" looks like? or whatever they are calling the list of positive(derived) SNPs. Is it something you can copy/paste into an email like this? Essentially, that would be the equivalent of an FTDNA project Y DNA SNP report display. I have mechanism to read those strings and filter them to come up with the "defining" (or terminal) SNP and other relevant SNPs in a logical sequence. Regards, Mike W Mike W On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 1:13 AM, Iain Kennedy <[email protected]>wrote: > Walter, > > If you ordered the raw version you can download a .txt file whose format I > described last month in this post: > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DNA-R1B1C7/2013-10/1381923024 > > and that is what we examine. You get it by logging in to your account and > clicking the Download button. I can't say for sure that Steve has a > downloadable file (yet). If he doesn't he can email > [email protected] and they should be able to send it him. > > Iain > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 00:02:57 -0500 > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Chromo2 Raw Results s588 > > > > Exactly what do your results look like? What is the format? What data > > are you given? How do you access it? Are the designations like S588 > > meaningful such as ATCG (pick one), derived or ancestral), base pair > > indexed, or rs number indexed? > > > > Was the terminal SNP all that you were given back? > > > > I am very interested in running a extended Y-SNP test to compare against > > Steve Lominac, whom I spoke to earlier this evening. But Steve has seen > > no data from his test. Apparently it was run through Sandy Patterson, > > but Steve has not received access to his data file nor his data. > > > > I match Steve 104/111 Y-DNA and we are both SNP tested for R-M222. There > > is a complicated Gordian knot of Freemans, Lominacs, Gills, Sudduth, and > > Nutters all of who are close Y-matches and all of whom have some sort of > > connection to the area between present day Culpepper (formerly > > Fairfield) Culpepper Co, Virginia and Warrenton, Fauquier County > > Virginia. My family tradition is that we are of Irish descent, though > > my earliest known ancestor is a Samuel Freeman b ~1760 +/- whose parents > > and connection to Ireland are unknown at present. > > > > I am most interested in comparing SNPs with Steve who so far seems to be > > ancestral for R-M222, and am considering the Big Y test at FTDNA, which > > seems to be another "pig-in-a-poke" for the moment though it is a > > Y-sequence test and not a chip test, know one knows what data or what > > format a customer will get for his money. I suspect that that test is > > in beta, though FTDNA has not used that language, but they have not been > > forthcoming with any details either. And we know that they recently > > fired the guy, Thomas Krahn, who built their in-house laboratory and > > designed the Big Y test! > > > > I am most interested to see where this all leads and what we can learn > > possibly about our Irish origins. > > > > So what does your data return from BritainsDNA Chromo2 consist of and > > what does it look like? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Walter Freeman > > > > > > On 11/15/2013 2:42 PM, Robert McBride wrote: > > > Just received my Chromo2 results and my terminal snp is s588. > > > > > > Earliest known ancestor Arthur McBride, lived Rampark, Cooley > peninsula, died aged 92 in 1879 in Dundalk, County Louth > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

For those who want to look at their SNP hierarchy it should look like this in part: S116 AC positive S145 GG positive S474 AG positive S193 AA positive Z2961 AA positive and then the SNPs in the Wilson tree/diagram. However note that you will not see M222 itself: there may be an equivalent or closeby SNP but Dr. Wilson is still double checking this. Iain > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 07:13:35 +0000 > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Chromo2 Raw Results s588 > > Walter, > > If you ordered the raw version you can download a .txt file whose format I described last month in this post: > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DNA-R1B1C7/2013-10/1381923024 > > and that is what we examine. You get it by logging in to your account and clicking the Download button. I can't say for sure that Steve has a downloadable file (yet). If he doesn't he can email [email protected] and they should be able to send it him. > > Iain > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 00:02:57 -0500 > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Chromo2 Raw Results s588 > > > > Exactly what do your results look like? What is the format? What data > > are you given? How do you access it? Are the designations like S588 > > meaningful such as ATCG (pick one), derived or ancestral), base pair > > indexed, or rs number indexed? > > > > Was the terminal SNP all that you were given back? > > > > I am very interested in running a extended Y-SNP test to compare against > > Steve Lominac, whom I spoke to earlier this evening. But Steve has seen > > no data from his test. Apparently it was run through Sandy Patterson, > > but Steve has not received access to his data file nor his data. > > > > I match Steve 104/111 Y-DNA and we are both SNP tested for R-M222. There > > is a complicated Gordian knot of Freemans, Lominacs, Gills, Sudduth, and > > Nutters all of who are close Y-matches and all of whom have some sort of > > connection to the area between present day Culpepper (formerly > > Fairfield) Culpepper Co, Virginia and Warrenton, Fauquier County > > Virginia. My family tradition is that we are of Irish descent, though > > my earliest known ancestor is a Samuel Freeman b ~1760 +/- whose parents > > and connection to Ireland are unknown at present. > > > > I am most interested in comparing SNPs with Steve who so far seems to be > > ancestral for R-M222, and am considering the Big Y test at FTDNA, which > > seems to be another "pig-in-a-poke" for the moment though it is a > > Y-sequence test and not a chip test, know one knows what data or what > > format a customer will get for his money. I suspect that that test is > > in beta, though FTDNA has not used that language, but they have not been > > forthcoming with any details either. And we know that they recently > > fired the guy, Thomas Krahn, who built their in-house laboratory and > > designed the Big Y test! > > > > I am most interested to see where this all leads and what we can learn > > possibly about our Irish origins. > > > > So what does your data return from BritainsDNA Chromo2 consist of and > > what does it look like? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Walter Freeman > > > > > > On 11/15/2013 2:42 PM, Robert McBride wrote: > > > Just received my Chromo2 results and my terminal snp is s588. > > > > > > Earliest known ancestor Arthur McBride, lived Rampark, Cooley peninsula, died aged 92 in 1879 in Dundalk, County Louth > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

David This must be one of those rare moments when you openly come out on this forum and say what your thinking, and that is good thing, as people need to hear what is on mind of the Administrators of this forum. And - it is good to hear you are one of those people who thinks the odds are better than 50-50 that M222 first appeared in Scotland. Since, I have been working on the origins for sometime, could you indicate why you think it is better and what it is, as I have shared something privately with a few others? You also make a statement "or Strathclyde, then moved to Ireland and flourished before returning a few centuries later in some measure to what we now call Scotland". Who is saying it came from Strathclyde? Is it with reference to that report published not that long ago, in which it was claimed the Milligan/Grierson DNA was connected to the Domnonii, regarded as being ancestral to the old kingdom of Strathclyde. In the report a Map used by the late Nora Chadwick in 1971 was employed to depict the boundaries of the Domnonii, which today with hindsight most modern historians would not use, as the boundaries extend too far south into the territory of the Novantae and Selgovae, who occupied what is now Galloway and Dumfriesshire during the Roman occupation of Britain. The same can also be said for Dr. Brian Skye's map, which is on the M222 Project, which wrongly places southern Argyllshire in Strathclyde. Argyllshire was never part of Strathclyde. If James Wilson has found SNPs above the so call 'Niall', this is going to re-write history. Alan In a message dated 15/11/2013 20:57:14 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Iain, I had to laugh at that. I wonder what could be learned from the McKenzie who is even more modal than I am. My sample got to the lab only about a month ago, so I'm probably not going to hear for another few weeks where I will be slotted. I'm hoping for news by the end of the month, but who knows. I told Jim Wilson that I guessed I would be in the M222* paragroup or maybe in S568. I am one of those who thinks the odds are better than 50-50 that M222 first appeared in Scotland or Strathclyde, then moved to Ireland and flourished before returning a few centuries later in some measure to what we now call Scotland. Then of course a couple of centuries after that the original stay-at-home M222 Scots picked up and moved to Ulster when it made sense for them to do so. That's when I'm guessing that my Wilson ancestors parked themselves in the Bann River Valley. I don't see any evidence they were in Ireland before the mid-17th century, though of course a lusty Irish lad may have been a patrilineal ancestor rather than one of the sober, dour Scots Wilsons who came to that green isle with their wives and daughters. Anyway, that's my hypothetical narrative of the moment. We'll see what the SNPs say soon enough. Needless to say, I'm not persuaded by the "It all started in Mayo" school of thought, but I'm persuadable if further evidence piles up that points in that direction. David Wilson