Hat tip to Frederick Sanger "father of genomics" who has died aged 95. 'One of the greatest scientists of any generation.'

> I maintain my hunch on the DF97 modal and DYS 385 values of 11-12. 6% of > M222 as a whole is quite a coincidence to have such a showing with five > results in. I bet Strain is going to be positive as well. I bet Strain is going to be positive as well. For the Ó Sruitheáin were one of the leading families of the Clann Snedhgile, a branch of the Cenél Conaill. As for DF97+ Duncan: In the 14th century Topographical poem tells of the O Donnagain of Tir Breasail under the Cenel Conaill section. Tir Breasail is thought of as land that Cenel Luighdech (leading branch of Cenel Conaill) carved out of Tir Enna. Hugh Donnogh O'Dungan, a sizable landholder in barony of Kilmacrenain, had land confiscated in the Cromwellian confiscation.

Thank you, Iain, for structuring and maintaining the Main M222 Tree View and the Split Tree View Charts. I refer to them often. As an eager student, the charts help me clarify the location of the recent outpouring of new SNPS. I very much look forward to further additions with the ongoing testing. Again, thank you very much. Sandi Ashley Sutton I don't see much value in the Split Tree View of M222. Because there is no prove that the participants of different surenames run in a genetic series.This notion is often called an infinite series. It does however prove that they run parallel to each other, until proved otherwise.The big picture will be revealed when we find matches across the pond there are thousands here in the us that are not in the M222 project that are possibly in series . Mathematics One of a set of parallel geometric figures, such as lines or planes The terms of the series are often produced according to a certain rule, such as by a formula, or by an algorithm. As there are an infinite number of terms, this notion is often called an infinite series. Unlike finite summations, infinite series need tools from mathematical analysis, and specifically the notion of limits Gene

Linda, We are pending Chromo2 with BritainsDNA - James Ashley f16212. Thanks, Sandi Are you pending Chromo2 and not listed below? Please let me know if so. I know a few have received results: Paterson, Conroy, Wilson, McBride, anyone else on the list having rec'd results? f30771 Burns 49-2329222- uas f201623 Callahan 49-2329222- uas fB3060 Early 49-2329222- uas f155225 Ford 49-2329222- uas f235771 McBride 49-2329222- uas fB4058 McFadden 49-2329222- uas f223269 McIlveen 49-2329222- uas f231979 Guinn 49-2329222-44927 f118913 Paterson 49-2329222-48714 f16646 Conroy 49-2329222-48714-A f198682 McNally 49-2329222-55717 f8999 Wilson 49-2329222-55717 f251441 Devitt 49-23292228- uas Thanks for helping me to keep up with this. Linda

It's enticing to contemplate that, but we've had surprises. A set I was looking at the other day of + and -....there were 2 groups that had a TMRCA of 475+/- ybp between them, but members of 1 group are positive and members of the other are negative. Obviously haplotype convergence is responsible for that, and unfortunately, we don't know that without the SNP testing. There may be some within the lineages that may contemplate that if there is a negative or positive for any of the SNPs (NOT just df85 which at best probably, may be positive for 25% of M222) in their ranks that the rest of the surname will be the same. Please verify that indeed the lineage is intact and look hard at those haplotyps, because if the testing has taught us anything it is that some of the surname groups may be split my SNPs. I'm sure that everyone is sick of being reminded of the O'Dochartaigh and McConnachie groups...we don't know yet how many surname groups other are also affected. The gist is: Looking for patterns what ever they may be is always a good thing, but don't completely settle on an opinion without verifying it. The ultimate verification, of course are the results from testing; however all of you know your groups the best, and certainly not everyone within a cluster should need to test...But make certain that it is indeed a cluster. Susan Hedeen On 11/20/2013 10:11 AM, Linda McKee wrote: > Interesting that N113849 DF85- has 27 matches at 111 markers tested > (considerably more matches at 111 tested than I find "normal" in > M222+)------ > > ......one of which near the end of that list is also DF85-. Does it > follow that those 27 matches will be DF85-.........one of those matches > at 10gd/111 is a P312. > > Linda > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Are you pending Chromo2 and not listed below? Please let me know if so. I know a few have received results: Paterson, Conroy, Wilson, McBride, anyone else on the list having rec'd results? f30771 Burns 49-2329222- uas f201623 Callahan 49-2329222- uas fB3060 Early 49-2329222- uas f155225 Ford 49-2329222- uas f235771 McBride 49-2329222- uas fB4058 McFadden 49-2329222- uas f223269 McIlveen 49-2329222- uas f231979 Guinn 49-2329222-44927 f118913 Paterson 49-2329222-48714 f16646 Conroy 49-2329222-48714-A f198682 McNally 49-2329222-55717 f8999 Wilson 49-2329222-55717 f251441 Devitt 49-23292228- uas Thanks for helping me to keep up with this. Linda

@tuulen The cost of delivery from and to BritainsDNA is only 13 Pound so it isn't too bad. @Paul I personally have no problem with the geographical name British Isles. But I agree that a lot of Irish have problems with the term. The collective rugby team from Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales, the British & Irish Lions, not so long ago were only called the British Lions. This really annoyed the Irish.

Interesting that N113849 DF85- has 27 matches at 111 markers tested (considerably more matches at 111 tested than I find "normal" in M222+)------ ......one of which near the end of that list is also DF85-. Does it follow that those 27 matches will be DF85-.........one of those matches at 10gd/111 is a P312. Linda

O'Donnell (Cenél Conaill) is yet another surname that sports 11-12 quite often as well. DYS 385 is a slow-moving marker, IIRC, which is mentionable in the context of things. Either way, very interesting indeed the hypothesis of the new SNPs and their association with various dynasties. On 20 November 2013 08:01, Bernard Morgan <[email protected]> wrote: > > I maintain my hunch on the DF97 modal and DYS 385 values of 11-12. 6% of > > M222 as a whole is quite a coincidence to have such a showing with five > > results in. I bet Strain is going to be positive as well. > > I bet Strain is going to be positive as well. For the Ó Sruitheáin were > one of the leading families of the Clann Snedhgile, a branch of the Cenél > Conaill. > > As for DF97+ Duncan: In the 14th century Topographical poem tells of the O > Donnagain of Tir Breasail under the Cenel Conaill section. Tir Breasail is > thought of as land that Cenel Luighdech (leading branch of Cenel Conaill) > carved out of Tir Enna. Hugh Donnogh O'Dungan, a sizable landholder in > barony of Kilmacrenain, had land confiscated in the Cromwellian > confiscation. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks very much Paul.......... and, yet another, N113849 Kyle DePew DF85- Linda

Aidan, >From what I now hear apparently saliva samples are no longer accepted in the UK, or can no longer be legally flown or shipped to there. The term British Isles derived from the Romans of a couple of thousand years ago. Yes, we all know the history after that, but in effect we all are British, yes, you and I. Best, Doug On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 4:19 AM, Aidan Byrne <[email protected]>wrote: > @tuulen > > The cost of delivery from and to BritainsDNA is only 13 Pound so it isn't > too bad. > > @Paul > > I personally have no problem with the geographical name British Isles. But > I agree that a lot of Irish have problems with the term. > > The collective rugby team from Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales, the > British & Irish Lions, not so long ago were only called the British Lions. > This really annoyed the Irish. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Linda, my Chromo2 results are not in yet. I did get notice that my FG sequencing was complete, but there is still the analysis phase to get through on that exercise. With luck I might have results from both companies by the end of the month or part way through December. David/8999 > Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 09:59:05 -0600 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: [R-M222] Chromo2 Tests Pending Check List > > Are you pending Chromo2 and not listed below? Please let me know if so. > > I know a few have received results: Paterson, Conroy, Wilson, McBride, > anyone else on the list having rec'd results? > > > f30771 Burns 49-2329222- uas > f201623 Callahan 49-2329222- uas > fB3060 Early 49-2329222- uas > f155225 Ford 49-2329222- uas > f235771 McBride 49-2329222- uas > fB4058 McFadden 49-2329222- uas > f223269 McIlveen 49-2329222- uas > f231979 Guinn 49-2329222-44927 > f118913 Paterson 49-2329222-48714 > f16646 Conroy 49-2329222-48714-A > f198682 McNally 49-2329222-55717 > f8999 Wilson 49-2329222-55717 > f251441 Devitt 49-23292228- uas > > Thanks for helping me to keep up with this. Linda > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For most Irish people it's a purely political term that smacks of Imperialism. It's got the same kinda dated ring to it as "British East Africa". -Paul (DF41+) On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 1:51 AM, tuulen <[email protected]> wrote: > I can understand that people are looking for their English, Irish and > Scottish roots, but a couple of thousand years ago they were all referred > to as the British Isles, having mostly European immigration. > > And so perhaps a modern genetics company could have but ONE name? > > > On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 8:56 AM, Mike W <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Other people are referring to the conglomeration as BISDNA (for British > > Isles DNA). It took me a while to figure out they were doing but it works > > for me. > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 11:53 PM, tuulen <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Yes, I agree. > > > > > > Perhaps for ease of reference the name could be reduced to BISDNA, > EISDNA > > > or something like that? I, for one, prefer a single name of reference, > > > please! > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Allene! don't know where that extra n at the end came from... From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [R-M222] Revised M222 tree Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 07:29:21 +0000 Allenen Sorry about that, I couldn't think of another quick way of referring to the people I meant; hopefully everyone knew MacAdam wasn't meant. I can use whatever forename you want in the diagram if you want to have your MacAdam changed, just let me know - for some I'm using the MDKA one. Iain http://www.kennedydna.com > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 18:14:42 -0800 > Subject: [R-M222] Revised M222 tree > > Iain, > > I just want to go on record to state that my "Male MacAdam" is not in the > group you mention to Malcolm. My g-g-grandfather, Donald MacAdam, was born > in Prince Edward Island a few years after the Adamson/MacAdam group arrived > there. He was a generation younger than the other five heads of families, > and I know his father came to PEI, but I'm not absolutely certain of his > given name, so I used "Unknown" later changed here to "Male." > > Allene > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 21:02:35 +0000 > From: Iain Kennedy <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Revised M222 tree > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Malcolm > > I would caution that there is some very skewed sampling in the diagram so > far. A lot of the 'Male Something' people were names supplied to Sandy > during a discussion about who the Ui Neill names were. And a lot of the DF97 > names of course are from Susan's cluster. Some parts of the diagram had > groups of Scottish and English names but we haven't gone after their > identities. > > Iain > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Allenen Sorry about that, I couldn't think of another quick way of referring to the people I meant; hopefully everyone knew MacAdam wasn't meant. I can use whatever forename you want in the diagram if you want to have your MacAdam changed, just let me know - for some I'm using the MDKA one. Iain http://www.kennedydna.com > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 18:14:42 -0800 > Subject: [R-M222] Revised M222 tree > > Iain, > > I just want to go on record to state that my "Male MacAdam" is not in the > group you mention to Malcolm. My g-g-grandfather, Donald MacAdam, was born > in Prince Edward Island a few years after the Adamson/MacAdam group arrived > there. He was a generation younger than the other five heads of families, > and I know his father came to PEI, but I'm not absolutely certain of his > given name, so I used "Unknown" later changed here to "Male." > > Allene > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 21:02:35 +0000 > From: Iain Kennedy <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Revised M222 tree > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Malcolm > > I would caution that there is some very skewed sampling in the diagram so > far. A lot of the 'Male Something' people were names supplied to Sandy > during a discussion about who the Ui Neill names were. And a lot of the DF97 > names of course are from Susan's cluster. Some parts of the diagram had > groups of Scottish and English names but we haven't gone after their > identities. > > Iain > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I don't see much value in the Split Tree View of M222. Because there is no prove that the participants of different surenames run in a genetic series.This notion is often called an infinite series. It does however prove that they run parallel to each other, until proved otherwise.The big picture will be revealed when we find matches across the pond there are thousands here in the us that are not in the M222 project that are possibly in series . Mathematics One of a set of parallel geometric figures, such as lines or planes The terms of the series are often produced according to a certain rule, such as by a formula, or by an algorithm. As there are an infinite number of terms, this notion is often called an infinite series. Unlike finite summations, infinite series need tools from mathematical analysis, and specifically the notion of limits Gene

It seems the Greeks and Romans had separate names for Britain and Ireland, and even Britian was separated into different areas throughout the medieval period http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminology_of_the_British_Isles Sent from my Nokia Lumia phone -----Original Message----- From: "Aidan Byrne" <[email protected]> Sent: ‎11/‎20/‎2013 1:20 AM To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [R-M222] DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 7, Issue 455 @tuulen The cost of delivery from and to BritainsDNA is only 13 Pound so it isn't too bad. @Paul I personally have no problem with the geographical name British Isles. But I agree that a lot of Irish have problems with the term. The collective rugby team from Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales, the British & Irish Lions, not so long ago were only called the British Lions. This really annoyed the Irish. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Iain, Thanks. Donald's father was probably Archibald, but I cannot prove it right now. All I can be certain of is that his father came to PEI. I'm probably the only one paying attention to the MacAdam group, but if you think it matters, you can change "male" to "Donald." No problem about the typo <grin>. Thank you for all the great work you are doing. Allene Message: 4 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 07:29:21 +0000 From: Iain Kennedy <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Revised M222 tree To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Allenen Sorry about that, I couldn't think of another quick way of referring to the people I meant; hopefully everyone knew MacAdam wasn't meant. I can use whatever forename you want in the diagram if you want to have your MacAdam changed, just let me know - for some I'm using the MDKA one. Iain http://www.kennedydna.com

Does anyone read the Western People? For they are advertising tomorrow's paper stories include: "National Geographic reveals results of genetic study in Mayo."

David, yes, however if that is a reference to my tree diagram then the list of results you have isn't enough to place you yet. F1265 can't be placed and DF97- isn't a branch unless you also have DF85+. Iain > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 19:56:01 +0000 > Subject: Re: [R-M222] DF97-, F1265+ > > I am DF97-, F1265+. > David > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message