I have Jean's book and have followed her Website for some time. I believe that a very good case can be made for the introduction of M222 into Ireland by the La Tene horizon. Below are two messages I posted a few months ago on another forum. The links go to graphics that describe the text. =============================================================== La Tène in Ireland All of the La Tène artifacts unearthed in Ireland have been found in the northern part. The metal finds are generally made from bronze, but in the La Tène style. Other finds are the La Tène Beehive querns found in the same general areas, but not in the exact locations. The metal objects are found in the good land and the querns are found in the poorer land. It is believed that this indicates a class distinction and indicates a population change beyond just mounted warriors. The three principle tribes in this area were the Connachta(Féini), Ulaidh, and the Laighin and it was about these peoples that the Ulster Cycle and in particular, the Táin Bó Cúailnge were composed. In a very old law tract, we find "There were three principal kinships in Ireland: the Féini, the Ulaidh, and the Gáilni, i.e., the Laighin.". Pronunciations: Ulaidh = Uly; Tir Ulaidh => Ulster Laighin = Layin; Tir Laighin => Leinster Emhain Macha = Avan Macha Cruachain = Cruacin Táin Bó Cúailnge = Tawn Bo Cooley; Cattle driving of Cooley - Cooley is a peninsula in County Louth. http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l589/Knockbridge1/DNA/IronAgeIreland.jpg Work has been done in the last few decades by archaeologists who have identified two clear horizons which unite the Connachta, Ulaidh, and the Laighin by way of what are called their Royal Sites which are identified in the Táin. These are the 'Royal Sites' of the Táin Bó Cúailnge which have been identified and studied. Emhain is the best studied and Cruachain the worst, but that is improving. Knockaulin - Dún Ailinne of the Laighin Tara - the most important Navan Fort - Emhain Macha of the Ulaidh Rathcroghan - Cruachain of the Connachta http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l589/Knockbridge1/DNA/figure_of_eight_ly nn500.png Horizons (summarized): 4th century BCE - late second BCE: A series of figure-of-eight structures are built in Emhain, Dún Ailinne and Tara. (Unknown at Cruachain). They have no parallel anywhere in Europe. 1st century BCE (95 BCE at Emhain by dendrochronology): The figure-of-eight structures are removed and a "40 meter structure" is built at all 4 sites. They have no parallel anywhere in Europe. It seems that the archeology reveals a direct prehistoric datable connection among the Connachta, Ulaidh, and the Laighin which parallels the stories of the Ulster Cycle. This may mean something about the spread of La Tène and possibly M222. ======================================================== The La Tène artifact at Navan Fort Emhain Macha, now called Navan Fort is about 260 m across. It is 2 Km west of the city of Armagh. The site marked B is the location of the figure-of-eight and 40-meter structures. The 40 m structure at Site B, the enclosure of Navan Fort itself, and The Dorsey have all been dated by dendrochronology to 95 BCE. The Dorsey is about 20 Km south of Navan and is considered part of the Black Pig's Dyke across southern Ulster. http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l589/Knockbridge1/DNA/lynn1a1000.png At the upper right is a small lake called Loughnashade in which four bronze La Tène style trumpets were found in 1798. Only one of these survives and Chris Lynn dates it to the first century BCE/CE. http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l589/Knockbridge1/DNA/Loughnashade-Trump et-jpeg.jpg The BBC series called Time Team did a show about Navan: S03-E05 "Palace of the Irish Kings (Navan, Co Armagh)". It is on YouTube and shows a modern artisan recreating the trumpet's end disc. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Iain Kennedy Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 6:55 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [R-M222] Jean Manco: M222 a La Tene signal? I picked up a copy of Jean Manco's new book 'Ancestral journeys: the peopling of Europe from the first venturers to the Vikings' the other day. Inevitably we are in the index under 'N' for Niall but Jean does give a reasonably up to date picture. Here are some quotes: 'A more likely genetic signature of La Tene in Ireland [than I-M284] is R1b-M222 carried by up to 44 per cent of men in parts of Northern Ireland today [fn. 49]. ..R1b-M222 was initially labelled as the lineage of Niall [fn. 50]... wider sampling showed the highest concentrations in northeastern Ireland and western Ireland. Outside Ireland there were roughly 10 percent of men carrying M222 in northern England, western Scotland and northeastern Scotland [fn. 52]. This is not the pattern we would expect from Irish migrants into Britain. So R1b-M222 hints at La Tene movements into Ireland...' 49. Busby 2012 The peopling of Europe and the cautionary tale of R-M269, PRS B 279 (1730) 884-92 50. Moore 2006 A Y chromosome signal of hegemony in Gaelic Ireland AJHG 78(2) 34-38 52. Busby 2012 Under the footnote lists at the back along with footnote 50 is this: 'An independent study found M222 running in several additional families of Donegal and Ulster in Ireland and Galloway in Scotland: Howard and McLaughlin 2011.' Jean will not at all (much) mind being overtaken rapidly by our latest research. She posts a lot on Anthrogenica and readily admitted her book would probably be out of date by the time it came out. Nevertheless, this is one of the most balanced commentaries we have had yet. The overall book is recommended, although if you read on you may feel that she doesn't really tie up the distribution of M222 with La Tene finds. Iain ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

164044.......Dexter........ Test: Big Y

Susan,    I would like to start a speadsheet for the McAnally Project. It might take me a while, but I suppose it won't happen unless I get it started. Thank you, Michael McNally Email: [email protected] FTDNA Kit #: 198682 Ysearch ID: SMP2Q On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 6:46 PM, Allene Goforth <[email protected]> wrote: Susan, you have my permission to use my Mac/McAdam Excel spreadsheet that I sent you recently. I cannot remember if I had Kit 290385 added to it. If I did, please delete it, thanks. There should only be six kits. I'm also comfortable with your sharing of my results with others in your group--most of whom I've already "met" and chatted with on a number of occasions. Please keep me in the loop when discussing, thanks. Allene Message: 5 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 13:50:27 -0500 From: Susan Hedeen <[email protected]> Subject: [R-M222] M222 project analyses To: dna-r1b1c7 <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed To that end my intent is to start a data base of the lineages that fall in the different SNP categories.  I need help with this needless to say as going to each project and culling out those is over bearing in time consumption; hence if anyone interested in contributing to this cause? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The Birthplace of St. Patrick in Somerset, by Harry Jelley The Birthplace of St. Patrick in Somerset Harry Jelley first published on The Saxon Shore E. Raymond Capt's scholarly investigation of the Traditions of Glastonbury are worth ... And a final interesting experience to view is this YouTube video of the last ... Historians take great pleasure in locating the birthplaces of great figures from the past. This is particularly true when the birthplace has been the subject of heated debate for centuries, as is the case for St Patrick, the 5th century Romano-Briton who later became patron saint of Ireland. There have been claims and counterclaims. Strathclyde was once thought a possible birthplace for Patrick, presumably because of its proximity to Ulster. Several sites in South Wales have been suggested, as well as the area near Birdoswald on Hadrian's Wall. For various reasons, however, none of these provides a satisfactory solution. It is my view that Patrick was in fact born in south-western England, in Somerset, at or near the village of Banwell, five miles east of Weston-super-Mare. A settlement of late Roman date is known in the area. The archaeology of the region, which was highly Romanised, suggests Somerset was a plausible location for Patrick's family estate - unlike some of the remoter locations suggested - while placename evidence supports a Somerset location directly. (click to enlarge) Saint Patrick's Somerset Birthplace by Harry Jelley There is, in addition, an undated, unexplained earthwork in the form of a cross at Banwell, surrounded by a bank. A scheduled monument, it is listed by English Heritage as a Roman camp (which is unlikely), and is described in the local Sites and Monuments Record as a rabbit warren, for which there is also no evidence. I like to imagine the cross has a religious interpretation, constructed as a monument to Patrick by missionary Irish monks a few centuries after Patrick's lifetime, at a time when the memory of his birthplace survived. The established facts of Patrick's life are few. He was captured aged 16 by Irish raiders and taken as a slave to Ireland, from where he is said to have escaped to Gaul before returning to Ireland as a missionary in 432 CE, founding Ireland's first Christian church at Armagh. Recent research disputes the traditional dates, suggesting Patrick may have lived a generation or so later. Famous DNA - DNA Ancestry Project Niall Noigiallach aka "Niall of the Nine Hostages" (d450/455 ad.) was one of the greatest Irish kings. He was said to have consolidated his power by leading raids on the Roman Empire, taking hostages from rival Irish royal families, Britain and the European mainland, thus earning the name Niall of the Nine Hostages? Saint Patrick was said to have been kidnapped and brought to Ireland as one of his hostages during his raids. Here are the conclusions of Klyosov and Conroy's study: "...Based on our data analysis and discussion, M222 is likely to have arisen in South Western England. The M222 bearers of Devon ancestral origin clearly have the oldest common ancestor of M222 followed by other regions/countries, which are practically impossible to reliably resolve in terms of the “age” of M222 common ancestor. However, cross-analysis of lineages shows that the Irish M222 could have arisen immediately after the English M222, but due to a possible bottleneck of the population they started to expand only in the middle of the 1st millennium CE. Thanks to the recently developed methodologies of DNA genealogy, based largely on the DNA sequencing and the apparatus of chemical and biological kinetics, as well as to hard work of administrators of FTDNA Projects (see Acknowledgments below) collecting and publishing haplotypes, we were able to do the work with 67 and 111 marker haplotypes, which greatly improved resolution of the haplotype branches and other results compared with those done with shorter (such as 17-marker haplotypes). The obtained data suggest that the M222 lineages in The Isles likely originated in Devon, England and either from there to Leinster, Ireland and then to South West Scotland. In Leinster, the Dumnonii - known as the Fir Domnann or Laigin - conquered all of Western Ireland, Connacht, and birthed the dynasty known as the Connachta, which in turn gave rise to the Uí Néill dynasty of Northern Ireland. In overall terms it would seem the rank ages of R-M222 in the Isles we could suggest as follows: (a) Devon, England, (b) Leinster, Ireland (c) Central Scotland, (d) North Midlands, Ireland (e) Connacht, Ireland (f) Northern Ireland (g) Wales (h) South West Scotland..." Shrines of Britain: St. Patrick the Old at Glastonbury - ... _www.britannia.com/church/shrines/glastonbury3.html_ (http://www.britannia.com/church/shrines/glastonbury3.html) - Similar to Shrines of Britain: St. Patrick the Old at Glastonbury - ... The Holy Shrines of Glastonbury in Somerset, Part 3. By David Nash Ford. ST. PATRICK THE OLD Enshrined at Glastonbury. Among the most important shrines ... The early ancestor of ydna R-M222 is in Devon or South West England (which was British not English in those days) around 400-500 years earlier according to the study. This would confirm my understanding that Niall is a descendant of the family of St Joseph of Arimathea who lived in this region of South West England. The first member of the family to have R-M222+ may have been Joseph himself or his son Gilead ben Joseph (Josephes/ Galahad). Joseph's older brother Nathan (Tasciovanus/Tenaufen/ Nascien) a British King Traditions of Glastonbury - Documentary by E. Raymond ... - YouTube The Traditions of Glastonbury - Mrkeith.org mrkeith.org/rkeith5b.htm - Similar to The Traditions of Glastonbury - Mrkeith.org M222 Project clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ - Similar to M222 Project New downsteam SNPs. PF1169 (Conroy, Byrnes) ... Anatole Klyosov's Analysis. M222 Origins (Klyosov and Conroy) ... DNA Studies. Genetic Investigation of the ... [DOC] M222 Origins (Klyosov and Conroy) clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/M222Origins.doc - Similar to M222 Origins (Klyosov and Conroy) Anatole A. Klyosov1 and Paul M. Conroy2 ... This study aims at the analysis of 13,520 haplotypes of R-M222, R-L21+/M222-, and R-DF23+/M222- haplotypes in ... [ More results from clanmaclochlainn.com ] E. Raymond Capt's scholarly investigation of the Traditions of Glastonbury are worth ... And a final interesting experience to view is this YouTube video of the last ... .

I picked up a copy of Jean Manco's new book 'Ancestral journeys: the peopling of Europe from the first venturers to the Vikings' the other day. Inevitably we are in the index under 'N' for Niall but Jean does give a reasonably up to date picture. Here are some quotes: 'A more likely genetic signature of La Tene in Ireland [than I-M284] is R1b-M222 carried by up to 44 per cent of men in parts of Northern Ireland today [fn. 49]. ..R1b-M222 was initially labelled as the lineage of Niall [fn. 50]... wider sampling showed the highest concentrations in northeastern Ireland and western Ireland. Outside Ireland there were roughly 10 percent of men carrying M222 in northern England, western Scotland and northeastern Scotland [fn. 52]. This is not the pattern we would expect from Irish migrants into Britain. So R1b-M222 hints at La Tene movements into Ireland...' 49. Busby 2012 The peopling of Europe and the cautionary tale of R-M269, PRS B 279 (1730) 884-92 50. Moore 2006 A Y chromosome signal of hegemony in Gaelic Ireland AJHG 78(2) 34-38 52. Busby 2012 Under the footnote lists at the back along with footnote 50 is this: 'An independent study found M222 running in several additional families of Donegal and Ulster in Ireland and Galloway in Scotland: Howard and McLaughlin 2011.' Jean will not at all (much) mind being overtaken rapidly by our latest research. She posts a lot on Anthrogenica and readily admitted her book would probably be out of date by the time it came out. Nevertheless, this is one of the most balanced commentaries we have had yet. The overall book is recommended, although if you read on you may feel that she doesn't really tie up the distribution of M222 with La Tene finds. Iain

23702...Milliken.......DF85- Chromo2 Big Y N91328....McWilliams.....M222+....Big Y Bravo.......

From the Genealogy-DNA Digest this morning: > The introductory pricing on BIG Y ends at the stroke of midnight on > December 1st, not tonight. I double checked with Bennett. You have a little > over another 24 hours to catch up with the R-L21s.

> 296945 Doherty R1b1a2a1a1b4b DF85+, DF97+, M222+

> 167335.....David Leslie Porter-MacDaibhéid...M222+ Test: Big Y

12068..Milligan DF85- DF97- Test: Big Y 98188.....A. Hamilton-Watkins.....Test: Big Y

On 11/29/2013 3:57 PM, Linda McKee wrote: Freeman Kit Number: 12305 Test: Big Y ****** My results will not be in for several months, assuming that there are no significant issues with the Illuminia 2G sequencing.** While I am interested in what this test may or may not reveal as to my tribal origins and deep ancestry, I am also interested to see how my results might compare with those of Steve Lominac. I expect to closely match Steve and be ancestral for some of the more recently discovered SNPs as is he at the moment. He and I are our only FTDNA Y-STR 111 matches with a GD of 104/111. Though there are others in our small cohort of closely related, but differently surnamed men including Freemans, Sudduths, Gills, Nutters, and Lominacs, so far we are the only two of the cohort, who have tested to 111 STR alleles. Most of the rest of the above group are 65-67/67. Our common nexus seems to be in Colonial Virginia in the small region between present day Culpepper VA and Warrenton VA in the late 1700s. For what it is worth, my family tradition is that our Freeman line is Irish. In order to get apples to apples comparison data with Steve, if there is no ready Rosetta Stone algorithm for comparisons by the time I have results in hand, I may have to go the Chromo2 route in the future. But for now I decided to take advantage of the Big Y sale in the meantime. I calculated that I would be about $100 better off by taking advantage of the sale in the event that I ended up taking both tests at full price. Walter Freeman **I suspect that there will be issues in getting the Big Y results back. It is a new test. Experience levels in running the machine and running the accompanying software necessary to decode the raw machine output are going to be on the low side. The test developer is no longer with the company. There are going to be a lot of orders owing to the sale. And I think there will be other issues as well as I have read reports of the false calls as the error rate is fairly high for this machine. And come to think of it my personal DNA sample at FTDNA was donated in 2003, which may be another snag I may have to face when my sample is finally scheduled to run. Ya pays yo' money 'n' takes yo' chances. So it goes.

Just posted this in reply to msg from Mike at R1b-L21 at yahoo.com: > Mike we had one Big Y order posted today that is only 7gd on 111 > markers tested from Steven Lominac who is found on Iain's tree formed > from what Jim Wilson has given him on the M222+.......: > > 12305....Freeman....M222+.........Test: Big Y > > Then,. we also had: > > > 205297...... McConnaughhay M222+ DF85+ DF97+......Test: Big Y > > > Give me some clue what flavor I can suggest to the members or better > yet if you post it on the R1b1c7 your voice carries a lot of weight > with those boys......the Voice of Experience.......as this is going > into the last day of the Big Y sale. > > Thanks much. > > Linda > > > Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Mike sends us this message of encouragement: > > Thanks, Linda. I think we've broken through the 230 mark. If > possible, we should all try to get a 2nd person to test from your > cluster with a somewhat diverse haplotype. If we end up with a lot of > new SNPs, there will be a lot of one at a time SNP tests by various > members to sort out what marks a cluster, is upstream or what divides > a cluster. Having a 2nd somewhat diverse haplotype Big Y tested > could help sort that out faster.. > > Mike >

> McConnaughhay M222+ DF85+ DF97+ > > Kit Number: 205297 > > Test: Big Y > Freeman > > Kit Number: 12305 > > Test: Big Y >

27202 Cunniff M222+ Big Y 11-29-2013

Stephen, This issue was originally raised by BritainsDNA and they have confirmed their understanding directly to me too as I've just sent a kit to Munster. So it is not a case of "general comments obtained from any Internet site can be misleading or generate ambiguity". It might still be technically incorrect but the issue is that if you order a Chromo2 kit to an Eire address it will currently go and come back by courier. If you think the firm is incorrect the best thing is to email their support ([email protected]) and query what the actual wording of the ruling is that they are working from. If the issue is borderline I for one would be happy to take the small extra hit to be sure it gets back without problems and it does have the advantage of saving the tester money and a trip to the post office. Iain > Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 08:51:44 -0800 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: [R-M222] Saliva Postal Restrictions in UK & Ireland > > > Postal Restrictions > of Saliva in the UK & Éire > > Hello all, > > I've just been reading the comments within DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 7, > Issue 471 & 472 regarding postal/mailing restrictions of saliva > in the UK and Ireland/Éire. > Also > at: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DNA-R1B1C7/2013-11/1385580419 > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DNA-R1B1C7/2013-11/1385582364 > > It seems as though there could be some > misunderstanding of what can and cannot be posted within these postal > services and somehow people might be getting a wrong impression. > > If you check the websites of both the > UK (Royal Mail) and Ireland (Post) postal services at the links > below, then I think you will find that saliva samples are, > technically speaking, not banned and neither are “DNA samples”, > which is what these packages could be labelled if you wish to avoid > potential complications. > > UK Royal Mail: > www.royalmail.com/personal/help-and-support/Tell-me-about-Restricted-Goods-overseas > & UKRM PDF > download: > www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/DangerousGoods_Leaflet_July2013.pdf > > Ireland Post: > www.anpost.ie/AnPost/MainContent/Business+Customers/International+Mail > & Post PDF > download: > www.anpost.ie/NR/rdonlyres/CF938A05-FDB6-4DCD-AFE9-5979C3947391/0/AnPostGuidetoPostalServices08.pdf > > Please correct me if I have missed > anything, but after browsing the above sites and their accompanying > PDF downloads I could not find any specific restrictions as mentioned > in the posts. > > I am no biologist, so I checked to see > what saliva actually is and it seems that: > > “Saliva is an > exocrine secretion produced by 3 pairs of major glands and numerous > minor glands located throughout the oral mucosa.” this is the > definition of saliva according to: www.medscape.com/viewarticle/774239. > > Using this as the benchmark, > technically I cannot find any restriction for saliva nor DNA when it > is sent by a public non-commercial user! ~ For commercial users > this could well be a totally different matter, as the rules/T&C's > would be completely different and probably encompass “Health & > Safety” issues, amongst others. > > There are one or two general exclusions > for certain biological materials, but nothing specific for saliva or > DNA samples. I would consider that it's possibly interpretation > which is the main issue here because I live in the UK and have sent > several “DNA samples” to international destinations and have > never been challenged by anyone to date. Also, I would suggest that > our very close neighbour, Ireland, would be very similar to the UK in > this respect. > > If in doubt, and you are very concerned > about this issue, then I consider the best way is to ask your local > postal/mailing service provider directly. If you get a negative > response then try an alternative office to see if they agree with the > other's answer. > > Whenever I send such items I always > label them as “DNA SAMPLES” that way you are covered and are being totally honest. So, I do not > see how you can be challenged if you are 100% truthful? If this is > not acceptable to the provider then try somewhere else, but please > don't give up just because someone has said it cannot be done > somewhere on a WWW message board! > > It's a good idea to always ask the > local service provider in your country, state, county or town as they > are ultimately the judge of such matters, general comments obtained > from any Internet site can be misleading or generate ambiguity. The > Internet is a superb tool, but it's sources are not always 100% > correct! ~ Much better to always double, or even triple, check to be > sure! > > Regards, > Stephen. > England. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

215509.....Ewing....M222+.. Geno2 Test: Big Y

Hope everyone has enjoyed all the happenings that go with the Thanksgiving holiday. Wanted to report that I responded to John Loughney offline after looking at his data and agreed with his assessment that he is better served with saving his dollars for a Big Y or similar test. Linda > > From: John Loughney <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [R-M222] > 67 Marker Christmas Wish List Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 08:37:38 -0800 > > > I have been thinking about this, but my 67 markers are not close at > all. I am wondering if there is any value at 111 markers, or if it > would be better to save up for Big Y or another similar test.

Dear Paul, I have an answer to the question of the Icelandic pronunciation of Muirchertach/Myrkjartan from an Icelandic Celticist and Genealogist, Dr. Elin I. Eyjolfsdottir: "As I mentioned in my last letter (no. 3), this was done to follow the Icelandic noun system of gender and cases, the -an suffix is gender specific to masc. nouns. This was conciously done and shows that Icelanders of old were familiar with early Irish enough to manipulate it to suit their own language. This is very prevalent throughout the Icelandic literature and not exclusive to early Irish, but also Old/Middle English etc. The -ach is not a sound which you would find as a final sound in Icelandic words, which means they would have had to adapt it. (You would find 'ach' like sound in the Icelandic word 'sagt' (said), where the -ag- would be pronounced somewhat like 'ach', or 'saga' (to saw), something would have had to be added after Muirchertach-a(n), but that would just not have been considered a good Icelandic) As a good friend of mine would say it is because to syncope." Syncope: the loss of one or more sounds or letters in the interior of a word (as in fo'c'sle for forecastle) I can trace my ancestry to Muirchertach/Myrkjartan, King of Ailech, of the Ui Niall, through his daughter Melkorka and her son, Olaf (the Peacock) Hoskuldson who married Thorbjorg (the stout) Egilsdottir. I have now accumulated several other branches that go back to people who are prominent in the Landnamabok and some Sagas: Egil Skalligrimson (Egil's Saga); Aud (Unn) the Deep-Minded; Helgi the thin Eivindarson (who has an, as yet, undefined lineage from Irish kings). Of very practical interest, I have three lines that span the 600 year time period between about 835 and 1434. The generation times for these three different lines are 27.27, 29.23 and 28.45 years for an average of 28.32 years per generation. I still have to calculate the generation time for the 500 years from 1435 to 1937 (when I was born). By contrast, the average generation time for my MacLennan line back to 1776 and Ian MacLennan's line back to 1776 (birth of our MRCA) is 33.5 years per generation. All for now, David On 2013-11-08 5:25 PM, "Paul Conroy" <[email protected]> wrote: >David, > >Sure, if Nouns change ending depending on gender in Norse, then that >certainly makes sense. > >In Slavic languages - Polish for instance - you will have a guy called >Sikorski, but his daughter will be called Sikorska. > >Cheers, >Paul

Hi All, Let me add a comment … Yes, maxing-out to 111 markers could be of benefit to you. But there also is another consideration. We of the M222 group are lucky to be supported by volunteer scientists, who help to keep this board alive and vibrant. And in return for all of their work, we should all be giving them the data that they need to better complete the M222 picture. Max-out your STRs and max-out your SNPs as that is what is needed. Best, Doug On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 8:13 AM, Linda McKee <[email protected]> wrote: > Give yourself a Genetic Genealogy Christmas Gift.......... > > ....if you happen to be one of those folks with plenty, plenty matches > on the Genetic Distance Tool on your FTDNA Personal Page and you are NOT > yet tested on out to the max STRs available from FTDNA as of now....... > > ......111 markers should be on your personal Christmas Wish List or on > your memo pad to do within the next month. > > No matter your haplogroup on down the road....... > > ......unless you have a very rare one and if you are rare you will not > be one of those in the above category of having tons of matches at 67 > markers tested..... ;-) > > ......so, you really need 111 markers tested to weed out some of those > questionable matches at the lower 67-37-25-12 markers tested. > > For just a bit over $100.00 you can take your 67 markers tested on out > to the 111 markers tested and this is a great buy and a wise investment > in your genetic genealogy research. > > Linda > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Postal Restrictions of Saliva in the UK & Éire Hello all, I've just been reading the comments within DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 7, Issue 471 & 472 regarding postal/mailing restrictions of saliva in the UK and Ireland/Éire. Also at: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DNA-R1B1C7/2013-11/1385580419 http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DNA-R1B1C7/2013-11/1385582364 It seems as though there could be some misunderstanding of what can and cannot be posted within these postal services and somehow people might be getting a wrong impression. If you check the websites of both the UK (Royal Mail) and Ireland (Post) postal services at the links below, then I think you will find that saliva samples are, technically speaking, not banned and neither are “DNA samples”, which is what these packages could be labelled if you wish to avoid potential complications. UK Royal Mail: www.royalmail.com/personal/help-and-support/Tell-me-about-Restricted-Goods-overseas & UKRM PDF download: www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/DangerousGoods_Leaflet_July2013.pdf Ireland Post: www.anpost.ie/AnPost/MainContent/Business+Customers/International+Mail & Post PDF download: www.anpost.ie/NR/rdonlyres/CF938A05-FDB6-4DCD-AFE9-5979C3947391/0/AnPostGuidetoPostalServices08.pdf Please correct me if I have missed anything, but after browsing the above sites and their accompanying PDF downloads I could not find any specific restrictions as mentioned in the posts. I am no biologist, so I checked to see what saliva actually is and it seems that: “Saliva is an exocrine secretion produced by 3 pairs of major glands and numerous minor glands located throughout the oral mucosa.” this is the definition of saliva according to: www.medscape.com/viewarticle/774239. Using this as the benchmark, technically I cannot find any restriction for saliva nor DNA when it is sent by a public non-commercial user! ~ For commercial users this could well be a totally different matter, as the rules/T&C's would be completely different and probably encompass “Health & Safety” issues, amongst others. There are one or two general exclusions for certain biological materials, but nothing specific for saliva or DNA samples. I would consider that it's possibly interpretation which is the main issue here because I live in the UK and have sent several “DNA samples” to international destinations and have never been challenged by anyone to date. Also, I would suggest that our very close neighbour, Ireland, would be very similar to the UK in this respect. If in doubt, and you are very concerned about this issue, then I consider the best way is to ask your local postal/mailing service provider directly. If you get a negative response then try an alternative office to see if they agree with the other's answer. Whenever I send such items I always label them as “DNA SAMPLES” that way you are covered and are being totally honest. So, I do not see how you can be challenged if you are 100% truthful? If this is not acceptable to the provider then try somewhere else, but please don't give up just because someone has said it cannot be done somewhere on a WWW message board! It's a good idea to always ask the local service provider in your country, state, county or town as they are ultimately the judge of such matters, general comments obtained from any Internet site can be misleading or generate ambiguity. The Internet is a superb tool, but it's sources are not always 100% correct! ~ Much better to always double, or even triple, check to be sure! Regards, Stephen. England.