Thank you, Mike McNally, for finding David Dill on the Hearth Money Roll. This is a big surprise to me. I had found John Dill on the Hearth Money Roll at the clanmaclochlainn.com website but I think the last part of the Hearth Money Roll is missing which would explain why I could not find David Dill. I did find David Dill on the Hearth Money Roll at the rootsweb.com website at the following address. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~donegal/hmrraphoe.htm

Lawrence,    I found two Dills in the 1665 County Donegal Hearth Money Rolls. One was John Dill, Barony of Kilmacrenan, Parish of Clondevaddog, Townland Tullinadale. The second was David Dill, Barony of Raphoe, Parish of Raymoghy, Townland Balleghan. I don't know if this helps but they were the only two in all of Donegal. Mike McNally [email protected] On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 6:20 PM, Lawrence Dill <[email protected]> wrote: My first guess is that I am in a McGee cluster. I believe the Dill are more closely related to untested McGee than tested McConkey, because the Dill signature markers look more like the McGee signature markers than the McConkey signature markers. Most of the people in the cluster have Ulster Scott ancestry. The problem with Ulster Scot ancestry is that it only goes back to the 1600s. For example, the Dill from Donegal are probably all descendants of one man who was recorded on the Hearth Money Roll in 1665. I believe the tested McGee and Dill should also have matches with untested McGee and untested Dill with a common ancestry in Scotland during the 1500s just like the McConchie. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Lawrence, Go with the genetic evidence. Names are almost meaningless. For instance, my name is Morrison. Scottish, right? Nope! I now find myself listed quite genetically closely on the Doherty family project where in Donegal there once was an O'Muirgheasain family. The O'Muirgheasain family was so small that it is not listed anywhere at FTDNA, but it is known to have genetic and historical links to the Donegal Doherty family. Was I surprised to discover that? Oh, yes! Best, Doug FTDNA 196477 On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Lawrence Dill <[email protected]>wrote: > My first guess is that I am in a McGee cluster. > I believe the Dill are more closely related to untested > McGee than tested McConkey, because the Dill > signature markers look more like the McGee > signature markers than the McConkey signature > markers. Most of the people in the cluster have > Ulster Scott ancestry. The problem with Ulster Scot > ancestry is that it only goes back to the 1600s. For > example, the Dill from Donegal are probably all > descendants of one man who was recorded on the > Hearth Money Roll in 1665. I believe the tested McGee > and Dill should also have matches with untested McGee > and untested Dill with a common ancestry in Scotland > during the 1500s just like the McConchie. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

DF 97 ordered today. Still trying to pin down when the NPE happened in my family tree as my surname has been traced back a long way and other Shazells do not share M222. Ed Shazell On 10 December 2013 08:00, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Projected DF97 negative (Lawrence Dill) > 2. Re: Projected DF97 negative (Susan Hedeen) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 16:35:16 -0800 (PST) > From: Lawrence Dill <[email protected]> > Subject: [R-M222] Projected DF97 negative > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > McConkey?84366 is DF85 positive and DF97 negative. > The following people are tested DF85 positive. They are > also projected to be DF97 negative because they are in > the same cluster with McConkey 84366. > McConchie 173398 > Shazell 194537 > Dill 73271 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2013 20:34:49 -0500 > From: Susan Hedeen <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Projected DF97 negative > To: Lawrence Dill <[email protected]>, [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > You are correct that this Donnachaidh McConnachie group because of the > McConkey df85+ & df97- and the McConchie df85+ could be considered > firmly df85+ df97-; additionally, I do believe the prediction because of > cluster for the others to be df97- is a good prediction. > > With the testing, however, the two only confirmed are McConkey and Mac > Adam. With the McConnachie (McConchie 173398) the df85 was ordered to > confirm that group since there are several other McCs slated into that > group and we wanted to make certain even though the genetic distance > within this particular group is rather close. We did the same with the > other M222 McConnachie (variously spelled) groups and clustered Duncan > M222+ even though the GD w/Duncan is also close; but the GD among the > other McConnachie group isn't so close...there is diversity in > haplotypes there, and at some markers that are slower in mutating than > the majority. > > With all of these various snps being so new to us, and for most without > signature in terms of haplotype (df85 among them since it is so close to > the R-M222 modal), the investment to make certain is a good investment. > > Susan Hedeen > > On 12/9/2013 7:35 PM, Lawrence Dill wrote: > > McConkey 84366 is DF85 positive and DF97 negative. > > The following people are tested DF85 positive. They are > > also projected to be DF97 negative because they are in > > the same cluster with McConkey 84366. > > McConchie 173398 > > Shazell 194537 > > Dill 73271 > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 7, Issue 490 > ****************************************** >

My first guess is that I am in a McGee cluster. I believe the Dill are more closely related to untested McGee than tested McConkey, because the Dill signature markers look more like the McGee signature markers than the McConkey signature markers. Most of the people in the cluster have Ulster Scott ancestry. The problem with Ulster Scot ancestry is that it only goes back to the 1600s. For example, the Dill from Donegal are probably all descendants of one man who was recorded on the Hearth Money Roll in 1665. I believe the tested McGee and Dill should also have matches with untested McGee and untested Dill with a common ancestry in Scotland during the 1500s just like the McConchie.

Ed, Don't feel like "Lonesome George"... I have no McCartney matches either and those I do match split away circa 1250, give or take. That doesn't mean anything except much will never be known. Child rearing in early Medieval days wasn't what it is today. Often the children ran unsupervised in mixed groups until they survived to an age of usefulness. This was especially true in noble household settlements with numerous servant families having other demands on their time. Whose was whose was never a certainty, and moreover, it didn't matter: Life was too hard to waste time pondering the Will of the Gods or God's Will, as you prefer. Len On 12/10/2013 8:42 AM, EDWIN SHAZELL wrote: > DF 97 ordered today. Still trying to pin down when the NPE happened in my > family tree as my surname has been traced back a long way and other > Shazells do not share M222. > > Ed Shazell > >

The old saying goes that liars figure but figures do not lie. Today, genealogy can be notoriously unreliable, but genetics can provide us with the factual figures that we need. Best, Doug On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 11:42 AM, EDWIN SHAZELL <[email protected]> wrote: > DF 97 ordered today. Still trying to pin down when the NPE happened in my > family tree as my surname has been traced back a long way and other > Shazells do not share M222. > > Ed Shazell > > > On 10 December 2013 08:00, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Projected DF97 negative (Lawrence Dill) > > 2. Re: Projected DF97 negative (Susan Hedeen) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 16:35:16 -0800 (PST) > > From: Lawrence Dill <[email protected]> > > Subject: [R-M222] Projected DF97 negative > > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: > > <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > McConkey?84366 is DF85 positive and DF97 negative. > > The following people are tested DF85 positive. They are > > also projected to be DF97 negative because they are in > > the same cluster with McConkey 84366. > > McConchie 173398 > > Shazell 194537 > > Dill 73271 > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2013 20:34:49 -0500 > > From: Susan Hedeen <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Projected DF97 negative > > To: Lawrence Dill <[email protected]>, [email protected] > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > You are correct that this Donnachaidh McConnachie group because of the > > McConkey df85+ & df97- and the McConchie df85+ could be considered > > firmly df85+ df97-; additionally, I do believe the prediction because of > > cluster for the others to be df97- is a good prediction. > > > > With the testing, however, the two only confirmed are McConkey and Mac > > Adam. With the McConnachie (McConchie 173398) the df85 was ordered to > > confirm that group since there are several other McCs slated into that > > group and we wanted to make certain even though the genetic distance > > within this particular group is rather close. We did the same with the > > other M222 McConnachie (variously spelled) groups and clustered Duncan > > M222+ even though the GD w/Duncan is also close; but the GD among the > > other McConnachie group isn't so close...there is diversity in > > haplotypes there, and at some markers that are slower in mutating than > > the majority. > > > > With all of these various snps being so new to us, and for most without > > signature in terms of haplotype (df85 among them since it is so close to > > the R-M222 modal), the investment to make certain is a good investment. > > > > Susan Hedeen > > > > On 12/9/2013 7:35 PM, Lawrence Dill wrote: > > > McConkey 84366 is DF85 positive and DF97 negative. > > > The following people are tested DF85 positive. They are > > > also projected to be DF97 negative because they are in > > > the same cluster with McConkey 84366. > > > McConchie 173398 > > > Shazell 194537 > > > Dill 73271 > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > End of DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 7, Issue 490 > > ****************************************** > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

194537.....Edwin Shazell.......DF97 B4398.....Leon McKee Jr......DF97

Early History - Town of Williston South Carolina Are the names Joseph West, Dr. Henry Woodward, and Lord Ashley familiar to you? They should be, for Joseph West commanded three English ships that left England in order to establish a province less than one hundred miles from here. History tells us that upon arrival these early settlers happened upon Dr. Woodward, who had miraculously escaped from the Spaniards. The West-Woodward party landed on the western side of the Ashley River in April, 1670. [PDF] ... _www.jstor.org/stable/27575150_ (http://www.jstor.org/stable/27575150) - The romantic story of Dr. Henry Woodward, the first. English settler in South Carolina, was first revealed when the papers of the great Earl of Shaftsbury. Dr. Henry Woodward and a New Archaeological site | Charleston ... charlottehutson.wordpress.com/.../dr-henry-woodward-and-a-new- archaeologic.. .Joseph West Called Father Of South Carolina . - Google News news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19911031&id... Proprietors, met with the other seven proprietors and suggested that a second expedition be sent to Carolina under the leader' ship of Joseph West. Jun 28, 2013 ... A new archaeology site near Middleton Place is 'ground zero' for early English influence in S.C. SUMMERVILLE . . Ashley's holdings included the Goose Pond tract It was here that many picnics, barbecues and horse races took place. The tracted statewide interest. The annual Goose Pond Park Picnic Basket and Ball at Weathersbee Hall Brought the Well-to-do to Williston for well over an hundred years. The Ashley cemetery is located about three miles from Williston on the road to Barnwell, The Ashley-Willis House is significant as a rare example of an intact gable-front Greek Revival residence in South Carolina In fact, residential Greek Revival architecture such as this is uncommon outside of Charleston. The two-and-a-half story home with a unique gable-front form was probably built for the Ashley or Willis families between 1830 and 1850. Although more elaborate examples of the front-gable form were built in Georgia and Mississippi, very few were built in South Carolina.

You are correct that this Donnachaidh McConnachie group because of the McConkey df85+ & df97- and the McConchie df85+ could be considered firmly df85+ df97-; additionally, I do believe the prediction because of cluster for the others to be df97- is a good prediction. With the testing, however, the two only confirmed are McConkey and Mac Adam. With the McConnachie (McConchie 173398) the df85 was ordered to confirm that group since there are several other McCs slated into that group and we wanted to make certain even though the genetic distance within this particular group is rather close. We did the same with the other M222 McConnachie (variously spelled) groups and clustered Duncan M222+ even though the GD w/Duncan is also close; but the GD among the other McConnachie group isn't so close...there is diversity in haplotypes there, and at some markers that are slower in mutating than the majority. With all of these various snps being so new to us, and for most without signature in terms of haplotype (df85 among them since it is so close to the R-M222 modal), the investment to make certain is a good investment. Susan Hedeen On 12/9/2013 7:35 PM, Lawrence Dill wrote: > McConkey 84366 is DF85 positive and DF97 negative. > The following people are tested DF85 positive. They are > also projected to be DF97 negative because they are in > the same cluster with McConkey 84366. > McConchie 173398 > Shazell 194537 > Dill 73271 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

That's a shame - I think you were the only prospect for a BigY/DF97+? Iain > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 09:48:31 -0800 > Subject: [R-M222] DF 97 results for MacAdam Kit 88644 > > Negative for DF97, so in total Kit 88644 is M222+ DF85+ DF97- > > Allene > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi All, Yeah, that is why I ordered the Big Y test. It might not do much for me as an individual, but this is somewhat of a community project, and so we all need to make a contribution. - Doug On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Allene Goforth <[email protected]> wrote: > Iain, I’m okay with it. I didn’t order a BigY test for anyone in my > MacAdam group, having already split with my brother for one in the L513 > group. Susan Hedeen thinks it’s good because McConnachie is the only other > one so far with DF85+ and DF97-, so we could learn something useful down > the road. I’m just happy that the results have come in. They never notify > me about them, so I have to keep looking on a daily basis. Cheers! Allene > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

McConkey 84366 is DF85 positive and DF97 negative. The following people are tested DF85 positive. They are also projected to be DF97 negative because they are in the same cluster with McConkey 84366. McConchie 173398 Shazell 194537 Dill 73271

Gene, If you truly believe there is a genetic relationship with some of these exalted names, please present your basis for this conclusion. Hard as it may be to accept sometimes, we are seeking the truth of our ancestry, whatever it may be. You have such a talent for locating very informative articles and manuscripts, and I commend you for doing so. But our job as researchers is to question, test, and prove the validity or truth of the information provided. We have to ask ourselves whether it is someone's opinion, wishful thinking, myth, or fact. If suppositional theory is provided, then we have to ask ourselves if the suppositional reasoning seems sound. Then our basis for proceeding with a claim is better founded. There are a lot of people who would like to believe that royal blood flows through their veins (and there is nothing wrong with that). Personally, I prefer to claim an ancestor who had the strength of character and mind to survive against all odds, against formidable circumstances. The men and warriors with undaunting courage, insatiable minds, and unquenchable spirits are my champions and the ones I seek. It matters not if their blood were royal or if their hands were calloused. My gggg-grandfather Ashley was granted almost 10,000 acres of land, and he elected to claim his land in the mountains of Tennessee. Not farmland, mountains. I have often wondered why he chose mountains. Whether he came from England, Ireland, or Scotland matters not. He was a warrior and a survivor, and I am proud to be from solid stock. His YDNA has provided an opportunity to know more about him than perhaps paper trails will ever tell me, so I am honored and thrilled to be able to search his heritage and mine, whatever it is. Sandi Ashley Sutton 1 ASTLEY COOPER - Mundia's _www.uk.mundia.com/gb/Search/Results?...ASTLEY%20COOPER_ (http://www.uk.mundia.com/gb/Search/Results?...ASTLEY%20COOPER) ... Lived in: Plymouth, Devon, England ... Sir Patrick Graham Baronet Astley Cooper ... 4 immediate family members including Sir Richard Lord Modbury and ... Joan ASTLEY - Theharmons.us _www.theharmons.us/harmon_t/b53.htm_ (http://www.theharmons.us/harmon_t/b53.htm) Alice ASTLEY was born in 1347 in Estleigh,Devonshire,England. ... sister of Thomas ASTLEY [3rd LORD ASTLEY], and daughter of Sir Giles Astley, by Alice The Lord Ashley Site | Digging Early South Carolina | Page 2 lordashleysite.wordpress.com/page/2/ Sep 23, 2013 ... Pieces of redware like this provide us with a direct link between Barbados and early Carolina. This is a glass button that likely originated in ... The Moat at Lord Ashley: A Unique Feature at a ... lordashleysite.wordpress.com/.../the-moat-at-lord-ashley-a-unique-fe... Jun 27, 2013 ... Digging Early South Carolina ... About a week ago, as our excavations in search of the moat at the Lord ... referring to fortifications at St. Giles Kussoe (the Lord Ashley site). ... that it should leave a rather obvious archaeological signature. Luckily, we could also consult Stanley South's work on a similar ... [ More results from lordashleysite.wordpress.com ] Summer 2013 Blog Posts | The Lord Ashley Site lordashleysite.wordpress.com/blogposts/ This kind of site is one of a kind, we don't ever get the chance to dig a site ... hopefully can interpret the ways the inhabitants of St. Giles Kussoe dealt with living in a fort. ... so we reasoned that it should leave a rather obvious archaeological signature. .... we are informing all of South Carolina about what the 1670s were like. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + +++ DNA Donor *contact: Curtis C ASHLEY VA [m. Jane COOPER] 2 Thomas A ASHLEY Sr. b: ca 1660 Lancaster Co, VA;d: Aft. 1747 Lancaster Co, Co, NC [m. Mary Ann HILL] 4 Jorden Jurdeen ASHLEY Sr. b: ca Bertie/ Chowan Co, NC; d: 1817 Lancaster Co, SC [m Elizabeth SANDERS] 5 Jordan A. ASHLEY Jr. b: 1761 Kershaw or Lancaster Co., SC; d: 1830 Jasper Co, MS[m. Sarah SANDERS] 6 Jordon ASHLEY Elder b: ca 1802 Wilkes Co, NC; d: 1864 Wolfe Co, KY [m. Barbara FRANCIS] 7 Franklin Francis M. ASHLEY b: 1828 Ashe Co, NC [m. Lucinda TOLIVER] 8 Freland ASHLEY b: 1856 Letcher Co, KY [m. Sally MARTIN] 9 Alexander ASHLEY b: 1889 Knott Co, KY; d:1965 Perry Co, KY [m. Lucy BREWER] 10 Harlen ASHLEY b: 16 Oct 1915 Perry Co, KY; d: 1999 [m. Louise M.CANE Chaney] 11 Curtis Carl ASHLEY Sr. b: 1936 Yolan, WV; d: 1997 Chatham, NC 12 Donor *contact: Curtis C ASHLEY [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) . N6BDH - Thos.A. ASHLEY; c1660 Lancasternn Co, VA R1b1a2 13 25 14 11 11-12 12 12 11 12 14 27 2RNBW - Robert ASHLEY, c1797 SC England R1b1a2a1a1b4b 13 25 14 11 11-12 12 12 11 12 14 28 U2842AstleyQEXQ3 - John ASTLEY b1791 Wellington Shropshire UKR1b1a2a1a1b4 R-L21L21+, L144-, L159.2-, L193-, L226-, L96-, M222-, M37-, P314.2-, P66- 63792Ashley2RNBW - Robert ASHLEY, c1797 SCR1b1a2a1a1b4b R-M222 DEVON Is also called DEVONSHIRE CHAMPERNOWNE - Tudor Place www.tudorplace.com.ar/CHAMPERNOWNE.htm - Similar to CHAMPERNOWNE - Tudor Place Born: ABT 1145, Clist Champernon, Devonshire, England ..... Under Elizabeth Tudor, through the influence of Catherine's relative, Kate Astley, Catherine's son ... Dec 24, 2012 ... Death: Died September 8, 1596 in Compton, Devon, England, ... the influence of Catherine's relative, Kate Astley, Catherine's son Astley Castle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astley_Castle - Similar to Astley Castle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Iain, I’m okay with it. I didn’t order a BigY test for anyone in my MacAdam group, having already split with my brother for one in the L513 group. Susan Hedeen thinks it’s good because McConnachie is the only other one so far with DF85+ and DF97-, so we could learn something useful down the road. I’m just happy that the results have come in. They never notify me about them, so I have to keep looking on a daily basis. Cheers! Allene

I agree with Sandy. Additionally, ancestral origin of a geographical "country" or origin does not equate with supposing that all similarly named in various regions of that country will be related simply because of surname. Additionally, speculative genealogies and anecdotal stories maybe useful, however it is the combination of fastidiously documented genealogies and the YDNA which better inform us of relationships within and among the surname groups. There have been many a circumstance within our investigations where the YDNA has both disproved the speculative and anecdotal; rightly so, there have also been the case where there has been validation; however that assessment does not negate the necessity to attempt to establish the paper trail with due diligence particularly when a surname will cross both geographical boundaries and haplogroup SNP assignments. Migrations known and unknown in addition to residential proximity of surnames within specified time periods in situations where an NPE may be suspected is paramount to understanding some of these groups where the YDNA says one thing and the anecdotal stories say another. It is through deliberate investigations with resulting documentation where that NPE suspicion is either thrown out the window or accepted. Susan Hedeen On 12/9/2013 7:44 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > In a message dated 12/8/2013 7:31:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Gene, > > Thank you for this information. To my knowledge, there is no proof that our > Ashley DNA Group is genetically related to this Astley family. > > I cannot follow your suggestion that there is a correlation between the > Klyosov and Conroy theory and the existence of an Astley living in the same > area centuries later. > > What is the basis for your conclusion? > > Sandi Ashley Sutton > > > > > > Sandi > Your are correct.But on the other hand in reality you don't have any > prove we are related. nothing on paper The same prove that we have with the > Astley family. We should expect a genetic distance of over a thousand > years .All my grand fathers said we came from England. What say yours ? > Gene > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

1 ASTLEY COOPER - Mundia's _www.uk.mundia.com/gb/Search/Results?...ASTLEY%20COOPER_ (http://www.uk.mundia.com/gb/Search/Results?...ASTLEY%20COOPER) ... Lived in: Plymouth, Devon, England ... Sir Patrick Graham Baronet Astley Cooper ... 4 immediate family members including Sir Richard Lord Modbury and ... Joan ASTLEY - Theharmons.us _www.theharmons.us/harmon_t/b53.htm_ (http://www.theharmons.us/harmon_t/b53.htm) Alice ASTLEY was born in 1347 in Estleigh,Devonshire,England. ... sister of Thomas ASTLEY [3rd LORD ASTLEY], and daughter of Sir Giles Astley, by Alice The Lord Ashley Site | Digging Early South Carolina | Page 2 lordashleysite.wordpress.com/page/2/ Sep 23, 2013 ... Pieces of redware like this provide us with a direct link between Barbados and early Carolina. This is a glass button that likely originated in ... The Moat at Lord Ashley: A Unique Feature at a ... lordashleysite.wordpress.com/.../the-moat-at-lord-ashley-a-unique-fe... Jun 27, 2013 ... Digging Early South Carolina ... About a week ago, as our excavations in search of the moat at the Lord ... referring to fortifications at St. Giles Kussoe (the Lord Ashley site). ... that it should leave a rather obvious archaeological signature. Luckily, we could also consult Stanley South's work on a similar ... [ More results from lordashleysite.wordpress.com ] Summer 2013 Blog Posts | The Lord Ashley Site lordashleysite.wordpress.com/blogposts/ This kind of site is one of a kind, we don't ever get the chance to dig a site ... hopefully can interpret the ways the inhabitants of St. Giles Kussoe dealt with living in a fort. ... so we reasoned that it should leave a rather obvious archaeological signature. .... we are informing all of South Carolina about what the 1670s were like. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++ DNA Donor *contact: Curtis C ASHLEY VA [m. Jane COOPER] 2 Thomas A ASHLEY Sr. b: ca 1660 Lancaster Co, VA;d: Aft. 1747 Lancaster Co, Co, NC [m. Mary Ann HILL] 4 Jorden Jurdeen ASHLEY Sr. b: ca Bertie/ Chowan Co, NC; d: 1817 Lancaster Co, SC [m Elizabeth SANDERS] 5 Jordan A. ASHLEY Jr. b: 1761 Kershaw or Lancaster Co., SC; d: 1830 Jasper Co, MS[m. Sarah SANDERS] 6 Jordon ASHLEY Elder b: ca 1802 Wilkes Co, NC; d: 1864 Wolfe Co, KY [m. Barbara FRANCIS] 7 Franklin Francis M. ASHLEY b: 1828 Ashe Co, NC [m. Lucinda TOLIVER] 8 Freland ASHLEY b: 1856 Letcher Co, KY [m. Sally MARTIN] 9 Alexander ASHLEY b: 1889 Knott Co, KY; d:1965 Perry Co, KY [m. Lucy BREWER] 10 Harlen ASHLEY b: 16 Oct 1915 Perry Co, KY; d: 1999 [m. Louise M.CANE Chaney] 11 Curtis Carl ASHLEY Sr. b: 1936 Yolan, WV; d: 1997 Chatham, NC 12 Donor *contact: Curtis C ASHLEY [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) . N6BDH - Thos.A. ASHLEY; c1660 Lancasternn Co, VA R1b1a2 13 25 14 11 11-12 12 12 11 12 14 27 2RNBW - Robert ASHLEY, c1797 SC England R1b1a2a1a1b4b 13 25 14 11 11-12 12 12 11 12 14 28 U2842AstleyQEXQ3 - John ASTLEY b1791 Wellington Shropshire UKR1b1a2a1a1b4 R-L21L21+, L144-, L159.2-, L193-, L226-, L96-, M222-, M37-, P314.2-, P66- 63792Ashley2RNBW - Robert ASHLEY, c1797 SCR1b1a2a1a1b4b R-M222 DEVON Is also called DEVONSHIRE CHAMPERNOWNE - Tudor Place www.tudorplace.com.ar/CHAMPERNOWNE.htm - Similar to CHAMPERNOWNE - Tudor Place Born: ABT 1145, Clist Champernon, Devonshire, England ..... Under Elizabeth Tudor, through the influence of Catherine's relative, Kate Astley, Catherine's son ... Dec 24, 2012 ... Death: Died September 8, 1596 in Compton, Devon, England, ... the influence of Catherine's relative, Kate Astley, Catherine's son Astley Castle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astley_Castle - Similar to Astley Castle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Negative for DF97, so in total Kit 88644 is M222+ DF85+ DF97- Allene

In a message dated 12/8/2013 7:31:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Gene, Thank you for this information. To my knowledge, there is no proof that our Ashley DNA Group is genetically related to this Astley family. I cannot follow your suggestion that there is a correlation between the Klyosov and Conroy theory and the existence of an Astley living in the same area centuries later. What is the basis for your conclusion? Sandi Ashley Sutton Sandi Your are correct.But on the other hand in reality you don't have any prove we are related. nothing on paper The same prove that we have with the Astley family. We should expect a genetic distance of over a thousand years .All my grand fathers said we came from England. What say yours ? Gene

HI Kyle, It looks as though you are on the right track. If you start looking at the lower levels, at 25 or 37 markers, then you could get a picture of who your genetic relatives might be. And then as you go to higher resolution(s) some of those relatives might drop out, but some might stay in. Your genetic connection(s) might not be particularly close, but your higher resolution relatives could indicate the region of your family's origin. And that is where further research could begin. I might never know just where my family originated, but my guessing game has narrowed. Best, Doug On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Kyle DePew <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Doug, > > I'm an amateur too, so I'm always happy to hear what other people have to > say. The names I've mentioned seem very prominent in the lower levels as > well, though there are a lot of Dohertys and variants. I had been thinking > that there was a link to them before, but if the Sligo link is right, it > might just be because of proximity to Donegal. I'm also 7/111 from the > M222 modal, so I might be getting a lot of results from haplotype > convergence as well. That was the main reason for my focusing on my 67- > and 111-marker matches. > > I'm still looking through things, but in other surname projects I've found > a Feeney (Kit #216301) who tested at 5/37 away from me that matches three > of my off-modals: YCAIIb=22, DYS456=16 and DYS576=20, and a Coleman from > Sligo (Kit # 51172) that matches at YCAIIb=22 and DYS456=16. (His > DYS576=19, halfway between the modal's 18 and my 20 value.) There are also > a couple men in the Dowd project, like Kit #66037, that have YCAIIb=22 and > DYS456=16. I would hope that this indicates not all of my Uí Fiachrach > matches occur just because I'm close to the modal. I'd love to do some > more SNP testing to help clarify things, but I really don't have enough > money to spare at the moment, so I'll probably wait to see what happens > after Big Y and Chromo2 results have been analyzed. > > Kyle > > > On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 11:50 AM, tuulen <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi Kyle, > > > > My name is Morrison, and I am now enlisted on two family projects, the > > (Irish) Doherty project and the (Scottish) Morrison project. Honestly, I > > could belong to either group. > > > > By both genetical and historical reasons it appears that I am more > closely > > related to the Doherty family, with my family having been of the Donegal > > O'Muirgheasain family. > > > > You have tested to 111 STR markers, good for you! But have you looked at > > any lower levels? For instance, have you looked at 25 or 37 markers, as > a > > broad outlook at who your genetic relatives might be? > > > > We in this M222 game must often go on the hunt, using unique strategies. > > > > I am an amateur at this, but let me know if I could be of any help. > > > > Best, > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Kyle DePew <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > No Morrises or Morrisseys. The closest I have to anything similar is a > > > somewhat distant 2/25 match with a Morrison, who *might* be an > > > O'Muirghesa. Apparently Morrison is an anglicization used in Sligo: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://books.google.com/books?id=fgMGAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA107&lpg=PA107&dq=mac+giolla+riabhach&source=bl&ots=r6mqvEviP1&sig=bdegJdLc8iUFBFtsJ4DmbqGg2-Q&hl=en&sa=X&ei=346kUoGzFMfd2QXTi4DADQ&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Morissy&f=false > > > > > > (See footnote on pages 273-274.) > > > > > > O'Muirghesa is also listed as part of Clanna Temin with Mac Giolla > > > Riabhaigh and Ó Donnchadha, but Temin was a great-grandson of Nath Í, > > High > > > King of Ireland, which would place the split as early as the sixth > > > century. Members of that family might just be too distantly related to > > > show up, provided the genealogies are correct. > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 11:34 PM, tuulen <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Kyle, > > > > > > > > You have done considerable research and are now onto something. At > the > > > > mention of Sligo, could you be related to any of the O'Muirghesa > > (Morris > > > > and Morrissey)? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Kyle DePew <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I've mostly been reading messages on this list and not contributing > > > > > anything, but recently I've been attempting to place my own family > by > > > > > looking at my matches. My 4th great-grandfather was almost > certainly > > > an > > > > > NPE whose father was named Gray. The progenitor of this Gray > family, > > > > John > > > > > Gray (d. 1751, Augusta County, VA) is said to have come from > Ireland, > > > but > > > > > there is no proof and there is no convincing evidence of where in > > > Ireland > > > > > he came from. I just wanted to get opinions from more > knowledgeable > > > > people > > > > > on the list on whether or not I and some of my matches might > > comprise a > > > > > cluster of Uí Fiachrach Muaidhe lines. > > > > > > > > > > I think it's possible that we descend from the Mac Giolla Riabhaigh > > > > family > > > > > seated at Criochan or Creaghaun (Carrowreagh?), Skreen Parish, > County > > > > > Sligo, according to Woulfe. Below is a list of those surnames in > my > > > 67- > > > > > and 111-marker match lists that could correspond to Uí Fiachrach > > > Muaidhe > > > > > families and their genetic distances from me. I've added kit > numbers > > > > where > > > > > I can find them in the R-M222 Project: > > > > > > > > > > 236891 Byrne: Ó Birn of north of Ballinrobe, Mayo? There is a > family > > > by > > > > > this name in Dromard (parish bordering Skreen to the east). 9/111 > > > > > > > > > > Carnes: Mac Corraidhín of Skreen? MacFirbis says this > is > > > > > anglicized as Currin. There is a Carrane in Griffith's Valuation > of > > > > > Skreen, presumably of this family. 8/111 > > > > > > > > > > Coleman: Ó Colmáin of Grangemore, Templeboy (parish > > > bordering > > > > > Skreen to the west). 7/67 > > > > > > > > > > N32460 Coyne: Although the MDKA is from Athlone, could this be Ó > > Cuain > > > of > > > > > Doonycoy, Templeboy? The name is found in Skreen in Griffith's > > > Valuation. > > > > > Queen and Quinn also show up in my 111 marker matches. 9/111 > > > > > > > > > > Donoghue: Ó Donnchadha of Tireragh. Part of Clanna > Temin > > > > along > > > > > with Mac Giolla Riabhaigh. 10/111 > > > > > > > > > > Dowdy: Ó Dubhda, rulers of Uí Fiachrach Muaidhe, seated > > in > > > > > Easky (parish ~10 miles west of Skreen), Sligo. 7/67 > > > > > > > > > > 82938? Fannin: Ó Fionnán, chiefs of Coolcarney, Mayo? 5/67 > > > > > > > > > > Feeney: Ó Fianna of Finned, Easky. 5/67 > > > > > > > > > > Gilmore: Mac Giolla Mhir of Finnure, Skreen, Sligo. > > 10/111 > > > > > > > > > > Lindsay: Ó Loingsigh of Sligo. There is a Lindsay in > > > > Griffith's > > > > > Valuation of Easky. Sometimes anglicized as Lynch, which is also > > found > > > in > > > > > Skreen and Dromard. 6/67 > > > > > > > > > > Murphy: Ó Murchadha, formerly rulers of Skreen and > > > Templeboy, > > > > > Sligo. 7/111 > > > > > > > > > > Additional (non-Uí Fiachrach Muaidhe) surnames found in my match > list > > > and > > > > > in Griffith's Valuation of Skreen Parish, Sligo: > > > > > > > > > > Hart 9/111 > > > > > N106427 O'Donnell 10/111 > > > > > > > > > > Additional non-Uí Fiachrach Muaidhe surnames found in my match list > > and > > > > in > > > > > Griffith's Valuation of Dromard Parish, Sligo: > > > > > > > > > > 203361 Carroll 6/67 > > > > > 193665 Daugherty 10/111 > > > > > > > > > > Carroll could be the local Ó Cearbhaill family of Caltry, Sligo. > > > > > > > > > > Of course I can't say for certain that these identifications are > > > correct, > > > > > but a Sligo origin for our Grays would seem to explain most of my > > > closest > > > > > matches. I won't presume to know why Hart, O'Donnell, Carroll and > > > > > Daugherty/Doherty should be in my list. Maybe NPEs or Uí Fiachrach > > who > > > > > joined other clans? Or just haplotype convergence? > > > > > > > > > > Kyle > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >