Carl, Please don't stop the discussions! I am one of those "lurkers" who learn and enjoy from all the discussions on this list. Yes, sometimes the discussions may sound argumentative, but how else can we be sure of things unless they are questioned? ALL info and ALL sources should not be taken as "gospel", that's why it is good to banter back and forth about it all so we can compare. Again, don't take offense to anything questioned on or disagreed with!! a ninth gr-granddaughter to Thomas & Mercy, Carol