Something has happened that you all need to be aware of. ( I realize there are other list owners on this list, so I apologize if you already know this information) Another site has been placed on the Net called "GENFORUM" by Cliff Shaw. GENFORUM is located at http://www.genforum.com/ Without permission he used the names and variations of the surnames from John Fuller and Christine Gaunt's web page at http://members.aol.com/johnf14246/internet.html John and Christine both have asked permission directly to me to place that information there. Both have diligently worked to provide us with a site that we could use effectively and easily to determine what list would suit our needs. They consistently cooperated with all the listowners on their endeavor and at any time we may ask them to remove the information if need be. Cliff Shaw had taken information that he himself has not found on his own and copied it to his website. This is copyright infringement, unethical and lazy. At no time was I contacted by GENFORUM nor Cliff to ask permission to use my material on his pages. Rootsweb has asked Cliff to remove his site but Cliff denies wrongdoing (the same surnames that are missing from John's site are missing from Cliff's -- go figure?) I have included the notes that were sent to ROOTS-L and to the listowners from Brian Leverich, co coordinator for ROOTSWEB and Cliff Shaw -- please keep in mind that Cliff's email address in the note is NOT valid -- it bounced as user unknown. *** I AM ASKING YOU ALL TO BOYCOTT THE GENFORUM. THERE IS A VERY STRONG POSSIBILITY THAT THE INFORMATION YOU POST WILL BE USED FOR PROFITABLE GAIN BY CLIFF SHAW/GENFORUM. SINCE HE HAS DONE IT ONCE, HE WILL DO IT AGAIN! CAN YOU STAND BY AND WATCH YOUR HARD EARNED RESEARCH BE PLAGIARIZED BY AN OUTSIDER????? *** I can not nor will not endorse a site that is a threat to the free genealogical resources on the Internet nor to the hardworking participants of any of my lists. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is my response to the incident to parties involved -- I contacted Cliff directly at GENFORUM > To all involved: > > I am personally appalled that GENFORUM/Cliff Shaw could be so > insensitive to the other list owners. I did not know anything of the > site until this morning when I opened my mail -- so how can one say I > have been informed? > What in essence GENFORUM is doing is making a substitute for our > lists-- without our permission. I do NOT agree with what they are doing > in any way shape or form. While I do not have exclusive rights on the > surnames I am working, I can not knowingly allow another site to run > that tries to overturn what I do with the current participants of my > lists. Even had I been asked by the GENFORUM owner I would not have > agreed to it. The whole point behind the lists is to make it as easily > (and centrally located) as possible to contact others family > members/researchers. Not to spread the surname over the internet in > fifteen different locales (giving different people control of what > happens with the surname). > > The information that John Fuller has on his site was given freely by > MYSELF to him personally for exclusive use upon his website. This > information (surnames and variants) that lies on the GENFORUM pages > could NOT have been gleaned from anywhere but John Fuller's pages. > As for Steve Schlossman and Christine Gaunt, they asked if they could > reproduce my information on their pages also. It seems that some people > have forgotten common courtesies on the Net. And since Rootsweb now owns > the operations of the lists, the infringement is upon them as well as > myself. I request that my surnames and variants be taken off GENFORUM's > pages ASAP and I will not knowingly allow Cliff Shaw to participate in > any of my surname genealogy mailing lists for the privacy of my list > members. > As for the future of GENFORUM -- I ask that if Cliff Shaw chooses to > keep the GENFORUM operating that for each of the surnames that are used > - SINCE THEY ARE DERIVED FROM THE ROOTSWEB MAILING LISTS-- that the > following disclaimer be published on each page for my surnames -- > > *** This forum is in no way supported nor maintained by the "SURNAME" > mailing list located on ROOTSWEB nor its list owner ,<a > href="mailto:[email protected]">Dana Whisonant-Schulter</a> **** > > Thank you, > Dana Whisonant-Schulter > **the uninformed list owner for NOWLIN,DILLON,WILLOUGHBY and WHISNANT** > > -- > Dana Whisonant-Schulter > http://www.angelfire.com/biz/kryptkeeper/ Since this letter went out Cliff Shaw has removed the variations of the surnames from the webpages and placed a very inadequate disclaimer to the pages --- however he has kept the variations in the search engine. This is NOT good enough. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is the correspondence between ROOTSWEB and Cliff From: Brian Leverich <[email protected]> Resent-Message-ID: <"Q8_PvD.A.ry.TDWzz"@bl-14.rootsweb.com> As many of you may know by now, Cliff Shaw has set up a new Website at: http://www.genforum.com/ That Website directly uses a selection of surnames and name equivalences that were developed by the listowner community, and which have been organized and published by John Fuller, Christine Gaunt, and Steven Schlossman. RootsWeb has strongly, consistently, and unambiguously objected to GenForum having used this material without permission from the listowners and John, Christine, and Steve. We're also terribly unhappy that our position has been publicly misrepresented by Cliff Shaw of GenForum. In case there are folks who haven't seen this already, Cliff's earlier post and RootsWeb's response are attached below. -B ------- Forwarded Message To: "Cliff Shaw" <[email protected]> cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], "Dr. Brian Leverich" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: GenForum responds to Website/Copyright Infringement (possibly) In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:22:02 EDT. <[email protected]> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:11:37 -0700 From: Brian Leverich <[email protected]> - -- Your message was: (from ""Cliff Shaw"") > GenForum Response To The Following: > > GenForum is fully aware of Genealogy Resources of the Internet at > http://users.aol.com/johnf14246/gen_mail.html > and in no way does our content, graphics, or format resemble John and > Chris's site. If it is the surnames that are similar and that you think we > have copied from them, then you need to get your information straight. > John and Chris have taken the list of mailing lists from RootsWeb, and > republished them on their own site. John and Chris could be liable for > republishing RootsWeb's list of mailing lists. > Now in response to whether we have infringed on RootsWeb: > The RootsWeb people are fully aware of GenForum and we have been talking to > them, and will resolve the issue shortly. > > We think GenForum is a very resourceful and useful service. And we also > know that we need the support of RootsWeb to make GenForum what everyone > knows it can be. The RootsWeb people were very understanding and we will > come to an agreement regarding the copyright issues. We will keep you > posted on the outcome. > > the only All of the surnames has been taken from RootsWeb and is that if > any one wants to push the issue, then John and Chris's web site would be > infringing on a copyright of RootsWeb. Yes, the surnames used in the > GenForum project are very similar to the ones listed on John and Chris's > site, however, John and Chris <sic: the letter ends like that, with quoted material following> ------------------ In point of fact, RootsWeb has asked you to remove from your site all material derived from material present on / copyrighted by RootsWeb. (We have also asked you to refrain from gathering further material from RootsWeb or using the mailing lists we host or other RootsWeb facilities for any purpose.) While RootsWeb always looks for middle ground, in this particular case we really have no wiggle room. The hundreds of listowners have, through their research, developed the lists of name variants which make sense to group together. John Fuller, Christine Gaunt, and Steve Schlossman have prepared and organized the lists of lists. RootsWeb *can't* give you permission to use material generated by so many other people. RootsWeb's advice is that you independently generate your material by choosing the 1,000 or 2,000 most popular names from Census data or some other source, finding name groupings from any of the dozens of major genealogical works that are now out of copyright, and then adding names as you receive specific requests from your users. That's the surest way we know for you to avoid causing hard feelings elsewhere in the community. We wish you all the success in the world with GenForum, but we do ask that generate your material through your own efforts. -B - -- Dr. Brian Leverich Co-moderator, soc.genealogy.methods/GENMTD-L RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative http://www.rootsweb.com/ P.O. Box 6798, Frazier Park, CA 93222-6798 [email protected] ------- End of Forwarded Message I realize this is probably the longest note you have ever gotten from me, but this is something that every one of you need to be aware of. You material, even if posted in innocence, maybe not be safe from plagiarism. Please boycott the GENFORUM site. Thanks and comments are welcome, Dana Your Listowner -- Dana Whisonant-Schulter http://www.angelfire.com/biz/kryptkeeper/