I posted the following message on the South Hams list, but thought I'd send to this one in the hope of a wider audience. One of my ggg grandfathers, Richard Stear, was bpt in Kingsbridge on 20 March 1775, the son of Richard & Mary (nee Weeks). Richard & Mary married in South Milton on 10 Oct 1771.  That Richard was also the son of a Richard, and his wife Margaret Clements, who married in Aveton Gifford on 29 Aug 1737. That is where I run into a brick wall with the Stear line. Although I have found the bpts of the various children of the 3 Richard's marriages, I haven't found Mary Weeks' baptism.  I have traced Margaret Clement's parents (William and Margaret nee Derry) as well as her maternal grandparents, James Derry and Joan (nee Collings). I think I've exhausted online resources (FMP, Ancestry & Familysearch), so I'm hoping that someone might have information regarding these families of suggest further avenues to explore that might help me make further progress with any of these families?  I would add that I am the only member of Devon FHS who has declared an interest in Stear. John in NSW

There are trees on Ancestry which have Richard Steare baptised at Kingsbridge 9 May 1714 son of Thomas and Joan but they don't say where the information came from. Try contacting the OPC for Kingsbridge: https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/Kingsbridge#Genealogy Joy ----Original message---- From : ourmail@chez-williams.com Date : 01/01/2019 - 09:02 (GMT) To : devon@rootsweb.com Subject : [DEV] Stear family of Kingsbridge I posted the following message on the South Hams list, but thought I'd send to this one in the hope of a wider audience. One of my ggg grandfathers, Richard Stear, was bpt in Kingsbridge on 20 March 1775, the son of Richard & Mary (nee Weeks). Richard & Mary married in South Milton on 10 Oct 1771.  That Richard was also the son of a Richard, and his wife Margaret Clements, who married in Aveton Gifford on 29 Aug 1737. That is where I run into a brick wall with the Stear line. Although I have found the bpts of the various children of the 3 Richard's marriages, I haven't found Mary Weeks' baptism.  I have traced Margaret Clement's parents (William and Margaret nee Derry) as well as her maternal grandparents, James Derry and Joan (nee Collings). I think I've exhausted online resources (FMP, Ancestry & Familysearch), so I'm hoping that someone might have information regarding these families of suggest further avenues to explore that might help me make further progress with any of these families?  I would add that I am the only member of Devon FHS who has declared an interest in Stear. John in NSW _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hi John, I don't have any STEAR but I do have STEER and found them spelled STEAR on occasion. Have you checked this spelling variation? Regards, Nancy Frey OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 6:12 PM Our Mail <ourmail@chez-williams.com> wrote: > I posted the following message on the South Hams list, but thought I'd > send to this one in the hope of a wider audience. > > One of my ggg grandfathers, Richard Stear, was bpt in Kingsbridge on 20 > March 1775, the son of Richard & Mary (nee Weeks). Richard & Mary > married in South Milton on 10 Oct 1771. That Richard was also the son > of a Richard, and his wife Margaret Clements, who married in Aveton > Gifford on 29 Aug 1737. That is where I run into a brick wall with the > Stear line.\com and our loyal RootsWeb community >

Yes I have Nancy.  I have found the names Stear, Steer, Steere, Star and Sture in Kingsbridge.  With my recollection of the Devon accent (I was brought up in Plymouth) the first 3 spellings are obviously OK, and possibly the 4th.  However, try as I might, I can't see how Sture can be confused with Stear.  Perhaps someone on the list knows differently?  I would add that I have looked at the images on FMP and the entries are definitely Sture.  The parents shown on the baptisms for the various spellings are the same, so it's very tempting to take ownership of all the children. Cheers, John On 2/01/2019 5:25 pm, Nancy Frey wrote: > Hi John, > > I don't have any STEAR but I do have STEER and found them spelled STEAR on > occasion. Have you checked this spelling variation? > > Regards, > > Nancy Frey > OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset > > On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 6:12 PM Our Mail <ourmail@chez-williams.com> wrote: > >> I posted the following message on the South Hams list, but thought I'd >> send to this one in the hope of a wider audience. >> >> One of my ggg grandfathers, Richard Stear, was bpt in Kingsbridge on 20 >> March 1775, the son of Richard & Mary (nee Weeks). Richard & Mary >> married in South Milton on 10 Oct 1771. That Richard was also the son >> of a Richard, and his wife Margaret Clements, who married in Aveton >> Gifford on 29 Aug 1737. That is where I run into a brick wall with the >> Stear line.\com and our loyal RootsWeb community >> > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community >

John I think you also have to remember that rectors/vicars often came from other parts of the country and would use forms of spelling with which they were familiar, so, this combined with an accent with which they weren't familiar can create quite wide variations in spelling.....this can sometimes be observed in the PRs quite clearly over the years following the introduction of new vicars, especially when not prepared to continue using local variations. Paul Benyon (N Wales)/Beynon (S Wales)/Bennion (Lancs/Cheshire) &c a couple of the various spellings of my surname even today, but especially when the name has been taken verbally/orally, when you can count on getting a few Bunyans, usually to satisfy someone's sense of humour -;) but, nevertheless, I think it probably demonstrates the familiarity theme. On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 19:22:02 +1100, you wrote: >Yes I have Nancy.  I have found the names Stear, Steer, Steere, Star and >Sture in Kingsbridge.  With my recollection of the Devon accent (I was >brought up in Plymouth) the first 3 spellings are obviously OK, and >possibly the 4th.  However, try as I might, I can't see how Sture can be >confused with Stear.  Perhaps someone on the list knows differently?  I >would add that I have looked at the images on FMP and the entries are >definitely Sture.  The parents shown on the baptisms for the various >spellings are the same, so it's very tempting to take ownership of all >the children. > >Cheers, >John > >On 2/01/2019 5:25 pm, Nancy Frey wrote: >> Hi John, >> >> I don't have any STEAR but I do have STEER and found them spelled STEAR on >> occasion. Have you checked this spelling variation? >> >> Regards, >> >> Nancy Frey >> OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset >> >> On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 6:12 PM Our Mail <ourmail@chez-williams.com> wrote: >> >>> I posted the following message on the South Hams list, but thought I'd >>> send to this one in the hope of a wider audience. >>> >>> One of my ggg grandfathers, Richard Stear, was bpt in Kingsbridge on 20 >>> March 1775, the son of Richard & Mary (nee Weeks). Richard & Mary >>> married in South Milton on 10 Oct 1771. That Richard was also the son >>> of a Richard, and his wife Margaret Clements, who married in Aveton >>> Gifford on 29 Aug 1737. That is where I run into a brick wall with the >>> Stear line.\com and our loyal RootsWeb community >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community >> > >_______________________________________________ >------------------------------------------ >The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >_______________________________________________ >Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com >Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

I llive in Devon and am old enough to remember the softly spoken, broad accents of my old relatives and neighbours who hadn't been subjected to estuary English or any other accent from constant television and radio etc. I can easily imagine that Steer coud be heard as Sture - think of it as pronounced "Steyur" in the same way that "here" is pronounced in Devon "Yur tis" (here it is). Joy ----Original message---- From : ourmail@chez-williams.com Date : 02/01/2019 - 08:22 (GMT) To : devon@rootsweb.com Subject : [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge Yes I have Nancy.  I have found the names Stear, Steer, Steere, Star and Sture in Kingsbridge.  With my recollection of the Devon accent (I was brought up in Plymouth) the first 3 spellings are obviously OK, and possibly the 4th.  However, try as I might, I can't see how Sture can be confused with Stear.  Perhaps someone on the list knows differently?  I would add that I have looked at the images on FMP and the entries are definitely Sture.  The parents shown on the baptisms for the various spellings are the same, so it's very tempting to take ownership of all the children. Cheers, John

In my transcription of the Aveton Gifford Parish Registers I added an index with people grouped by surname, and there are many examples of all the variants of Stear. see http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agprindS.htm I came to the conclusion that Stear; Sture and Stert were distinct families but that Stear, Steer and Steere were indistinguishable.  I accept that my distinction is subjective, although the acid test is how the names sound.  My mother (who was a Stear) insisted that the Steers were a completely different family, but I have seen her father's own signature in both forms. It is fairly clear that spelling was very fluid.  There are examples in the AG marriage register, which for some periods had the actual signatures of bride, groom and their fathers, where father and son used different spellings of their surname in their signatures on the same document. The priest, or the parish clerk, or the census enumerator, would write down what they heard, especially if the family was not known to them. It probably is true that these names have a common origin, but surnames have been around since about the 13th century, 300 years before we have written records for common people, and well before most of the population was literate. All the AG entries can be found at http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agpr2.htm (The commonest name in the village is Elliot, and I found at least 8 ways in which that was spelt!) Chris Burgoyne OPC for Aveton Gifford On 02/01/2019 12:30, Joy Langdon via DEVON wrote: > I llive in Devon and am old enough to remember the softly spoken, broad accents of my old relatives and neighbours who hadn't been subjected to estuary English or any other accent from constant television and radio etc. I can easily imagine that Steer coud be heard as Sture - think of it as pronounced "Steyur" in the same way that "here" is pronounced in Devon "Yur tis" (here it is). > > Joy > > ----Original message---- > From : ourmail@chez-williams.com > Date : 02/01/2019 - 08:22 (GMT) > To : devon@rootsweb.com > Subject : [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge > > Yes I have Nancy.  I have found the names Stear, Steer, Steere, Star and > Sture in Kingsbridge.  With my recollection of the Devon accent (I was > brought up in Plymouth) the first 3 spellings are obviously OK, and > possibly the 4th.  However, try as I might, I can't see how Sture can be > confused with Stear.  Perhaps someone on the list knows differently?  I > would add that I have looked at the images on FMP and the entries are > definitely Sture.  The parents shown on the baptisms for the various > spellings are the same, so it's very tempting to take ownership of all > the children. > > Cheers, > John > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Thank you Paul, Joy and Chris for your helpful comments and suggestions. I had been basing my rejection of Sture upon my recollection of accents 50 years ago. I had thought it might be harder than you intimated Joy.  For instance I was taught that AG was Autun Giffurd, with a hard G.  Incidentally I couldn't access the video you sent as it is apparently not permitted in Australia! My family bible starts with the mge of Richard Stear to Elizabeth Richards in Stoke Damerel on 22 May 1798.  I had made no progress there for 15 years, until recently I looked at their mge cert and investigated the witnesses.  One turned out to be the husband of Grace Stear of Kingsbridge b 1761.  That started me collating all the Stears from that parish, from which I deduced that Grace was Richard's aunt. Looking at the Kingsbridge register a couple, Thomas & Joan, appear to have baptised children with the following surnames:- Dorothy Sture 1711  buried as Stare 1713 Richard Sture 1714 Dorothy Stear 1715/16 Thomas Stear 1718/19 John Sture 1720/21  buried as Stear in 1723 Elizabeth Sture 1724 Nicolus Stuer 1727 John Steare 1730 buried as Steare in 1731 Parents Thomas & Joan were buried as Stear in 1766 and 1774 respectively. The above dates lead me to the conclusion that the bpts are of siblings.  I haven't made a thorough examination of the writing in the registers other than to realise there were different authors, which presumably accounts for the spelling variations as has been suggested.  Looking at your transcriptions Chris, I could spot no overlap between Sture and Steer etc families, so perhaps things were different in AG. My next brick wall is to find the marriage of Thomas & Joan, presumably circa 1710. Looking at the dates of their deaths I doubt either were born before 1690.  Although I have found Stear (& variants) marriages in surrounding parishes at about that time, nothing for a Thomas & Joan.  So any ideas there would be welcome! Thanks again to you all for responding to my query, John On 3/01/2019 1:47 am, Chris Burgoyne wrote: > In my transcription of the Aveton Gifford Parish Registers I added an > index with people grouped by surname, and there are many examples of > all the variants of Stear. > > see http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agprindS.htm > > I came to the conclusion that Stear; Sture and Stert were distinct > families but that Stear, Steer and Steere were indistinguishable. I > accept that my distinction is subjective, although the acid test is > how the names sound.  My mother (who was a Stear) insisted that the > Steers were a completely different family, but I have seen her > father's own signature in both forms. > > It is fairly clear that spelling was very fluid.  There are examples > in the AG marriage register, which for some periods had the actual > signatures of bride, groom and their fathers, where father and son > used different spellings of their surname in their signatures on the > same document. > > The priest, or the parish clerk, or the census enumerator, would write > down what they heard, especially if the family was not known to them. > > It probably is true that these names have a common origin, but > surnames have been around since about the 13th century, 300 years > before we have written records for common people, and well before most > of the population was literate. > > All the AG entries can be found at > http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agpr2.htm > > (The commonest name in the village is Elliot, and I found at least 8 > ways in which that was spelt!) > > Chris Burgoyne > > OPC for Aveton Gifford > > > > > > On 02/01/2019 12:30, Joy Langdon via DEVON wrote: >> I llive in Devon and am old enough to remember the softly spoken, >> broad accents of my old relatives and neighbours who hadn't been >> subjected to estuary English or any other accent from constant >> television and radio etc.  I can easily imagine that Steer coud be >> heard as Sture - think of it as pronounced "Steyur" in the same way >> that "here" is pronounced in Devon "Yur tis" (here it is). >> >> Joy >> >> ----Original message---- >>  From : ourmail@chez-williams.com >> Date : 02/01/2019 - 08:22 (GMT) >> To : devon@rootsweb.com >> Subject : [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge >> >> Yes I have Nancy.  I have found the names Stear, Steer, Steere, Star and >> Sture in Kingsbridge.  With my recollection of the Devon accent (I was >> brought up in Plymouth) the first 3 spellings are obviously OK, and >> possibly the 4th.  However, try as I might, I can't see how Sture can be >> confused with Stear.  Perhaps someone on the list knows differently?  I >> would add that I have looked at the images on FMP and the entries are >> definitely Sture.  The parents shown on the baptisms for the various >> spellings are the same, so it's very tempting to take ownership of all >> the children. >> >> Cheers, >> John >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS >> (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe >> https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: >> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal >> RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS > (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal > RootsWeb community