Hi Bev When trying to find a location in the UK, our Ordnance Survey maps are invaluable. All the places shown on the 1:50,000 maps are indexed and you can search on this site: http://www.streetmap.co.uk/ If you search for Liverton, you'll find 3 entries in Devon. One is a farm near Exmouth, but the other two are in the area that you're interested in. The links take you to the 1:50,000 OS map (zoom level 4), and if you zoom in another layer it takes you to the 1:25,000 map which is detailed enough to show field boundaries and in this case shows 'Old Leys Wood' but does not name the actual farm (unusual). There are buildings near the wood which look likely, so zoom in again and you'll see them marked as 'Old Leys Farm'. http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=280558&Y=75394&A=Y&Z=106 Now that you have a location you can look at the Historical maps for the area on http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html Just copy the coordinates from the Streetmap webpage (280558,75394) and enter them on the Old Maps website, then select from the various available maps on the right hand side of the page - the 1:2,500 are the most detailed and make sure you zoom in to see the best detail. >From this you'll see that back in 1905 it was known as 'Old Lays' farm/wood so this may help with research. The other thing that I like to do (and you probably already know about) is to take a virtual stroll down the road using Google maps or Earth... http://tinyurl.com/p6gu7ma With best wishes Kate > -----Original Message----- > From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of B. Edmonds > Sent: 01 January 2014 05:16 > To: DEVON@rootsweb.com > Subject: [DEV] Mary Jane VOOGHT [SMERDON] died 1952 > > I am stuck again. > > Does anyone know where Old Leys Farm, Liverton is? > Liverton is not in the Gazatteer so assume it is meant to Tiverton. > > The name is from the Index to Ancestry Wills, which now I cannot find > to double check, somewhere on a memory stick I suppose. She died 17 Dec > 1952 and I would love to know where she is buried also. Her husband I > believe is Sydney John VOOGHT born 1870 at East Ogwell, anyone have his > birth date please? He died 21 Mar 1917 at Rattery, and assume he is > buried there. > > They married Mar Q 1893 at East Stonehouse. > > I am no good with Google maps, they confuse me. > > Bev > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( > http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS > (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

Hi: Kate's account of how to find places is very useful - at least for *present-day* place names. However, a big problem for which there doesn't seem to be a good general solution, is how to find places which are named on old documents, transcriptions, etc., when spelling was erratic, and all sorts of spelling errors can have crept in. Various major search facilities do a reasonably good job of finding variant surnames, but I don't know of any which make good allowance for variant, mis-spelled, or archaic place names. (Does anybody?) Certainly services like StreetMapUK are completely unforgiving with regard to place name spelling - for example it will not find "Liverton" if one searches for "Livertone" or "Leverton". This is a problem we have faced in preparing the Devon Wills Project (DWP) database for inclusion in the National Wills Index (NWI) - which incidentally has a particularly good facility for searching surname variants, a facility which we are looking forward to being able to use on DWP. The (labour-intensive) solution we have adopted is to add manually, enclosed in square brackets, the "standard" parish name after any variant parish name, or non-parish place name). It would I suppose be possible to produce a "complete" variant parish name index for Devon using these additions to the DWP database, but given the additions we have made this isn't needed for NWI's DWP search place name service, so isn't currently planned. The extent of the problem is illustrated by the fact that we've found, for example, no less than 12 variants of Paignton, 17 of Clovelly, and 46 of Bishopsteignton in our DWP database! Even for Plymouth we've found a couple of dozen, namely: Playmouth, Pleamouth, Plemothe, Plimmouth, Plimo, Plimoath, Plimoth, Plimouh, Plimouth, Plimouthe, Plinoth, Plumouth, Ply, Plymmothe, Plymmouth, Plymmouthe, Plymmowth, Plymoath, Plymomouth, Plymoth, Plymothe, Plymouth, Plymouthe, Plympmouth, and Plymth! In these circumstances about all I can offer, in addition to Kate's advice, and the use of standard place name reference books, such as Gover, J.E.B, Mawer, A. and Stenton, F.M. (eds.) The Place-names of Devon. Cambridge: University Press (1931) 2 vols and Wilson, John M. The Imperial Gazetteer of England and Wales. Six Volumes. Edinburgh, Scotland: A. Fullerton, 1870, are: - The Online Gazetteer derived from White's 1850 Dictionary: http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/Gazetteer/ - Guide to the Manors of Devon: http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/DevonManors/ (both the above enable one to identify the parish a given place belongs to) - Various other references listed at http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/index.html#NamesGeographical Suggestions for improving this listing are welcome. Cheers Brian Randell On 1 Jan 2014, at 12:26, Kate Burhouse wrote: > Hi Bev > > When trying to find a location in the UK, our Ordnance Survey maps are > invaluable. All the places shown on the 1:50,000 maps are indexed and you > can search on this site: > > http://www.streetmap.co.uk/ > > If you search for Liverton, you'll find 3 entries in Devon. One is a farm > near Exmouth, but the other two are in the area that you're interested in. > The links take you to the 1:50,000 OS map (zoom level 4), and if you zoom in > another layer it takes you to the 1:25,000 map which is detailed enough to > show field boundaries and in this case shows 'Old Leys Wood' but does not > name the actual farm (unusual). There are buildings near the wood which look > likely, so zoom in again and you'll see them marked as 'Old Leys Farm'. > > http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=280558&Y=75394&A=Y&Z=106 > > Now that you have a location you can look at the Historical maps for the > area on http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html > > Just copy the coordinates from the Streetmap webpage (280558,75394) and > enter them on the Old Maps website, then select from the various available > maps on the right hand side of the page - the 1:2,500 are the most detailed > and make sure you zoom in to see the best detail. > >> From this you'll see that back in 1905 it was known as 'Old Lays' farm/wood > so this may help with research. > > The other thing that I like to do (and you probably already know about) is > to take a virtual stroll down the road using Google maps or Earth... > > http://tinyurl.com/p6gu7ma > > With best wishes > > Kate > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On >> Behalf Of B. Edmonds >> Sent: 01 January 2014 05:16 >> To: DEVON@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [DEV] Mary Jane VOOGHT [SMERDON] died 1952 >> >> I am stuck again. >> >> Does anyone know where Old Leys Farm, Liverton is? >> Liverton is not in the Gazatteer so assume it is meant to Tiverton. >> >> The name is from the Index to Ancestry Wills, which now I cannot find >> to double check, somewhere on a memory stick I suppose. She died 17 Dec >> 1952 and I would love to know where she is buried also. Her husband I >> believe is Sydney John VOOGHT born 1870 at East Ogwell, anyone have his >> birth date please? He died 21 Mar 1917 at Rattery, and assume he is >> buried there. >> >> They married Mar Q 1893 at East Stonehouse. >> >> I am no good with Google maps, they confuse me. >> >> Bev >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( >> http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS >> (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON- >> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in >> the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 FAX = +44 191 222 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/brian.randell

Brian, The same, of course, applies to names, particularly as you move back to the 16/17th century. The National Archives uses the brackets approach to ensure that any reference can be found from the standard name. One other approach I have seen is that the query first takes the "old" spelling and looks up the standard spelling from a table. The query then only runs against the standard spelling and only the standard spelling is included in the record. This seems to be more common amongst Irish and Scottish names with Mc, Mac, O' as well as Gaelic spelling. Both approaches often have a soundex (or equivalent) and/or a drop down based options. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Brian Randell Sent: 01 January 2014 23:17 To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Cc: Brian Randell Subject: [DEV] Finding places: WAS Mary Jane VOOGHT [SMERDON] died 1952 Hi: Kate's account of how to find places is very useful - at least for *present-day* place names. However, a big problem for which there doesn't seem to be a good general solution, is how to find places which are named on old documents, transcriptions, etc., when spelling was erratic, and all sorts of spelling errors can have crept in. Various major search facilities do a reasonably good job of finding variant surnames, but I don't know of any which make good allowance for variant, mis-spelled, or archaic place names. (Does anybody?) Certainly services like StreetMapUK are completely unforgiving with regard to place name spelling - for example it will not find "Liverton" if one searches for "Livertone" or "Leverton". This is a problem we have faced in preparing the Devon Wills Project (DWP) database for inclusion in the National Wills Index (NWI) - which incidentally has a particularly good facility for searching surname variants, a facility which we are looking forward to being able to use on DWP. The (labour-intensive) solution we have adopted is to add manually, enclosed in square brackets, the "standard" parish name after any variant parish name, or non-parish place name). It would I suppose be possible to produce a "complete" variant parish name index for Devon using these additions to the DWP database, but given the additions we have made this isn't needed for NWI's DWP search place name service, so isn't currently planned. The extent of the problem is illustrated by the fact that we've found, for example, no less than 12 variants of Paignton, 17 of Clovelly, and 46 of Bishopsteignton in our DWP database! Even for Plymouth we've found a couple of dozen, namely: Playmouth, Pleamouth, Plemothe, Plimmouth, Plimo, Plimoath, Plimoth, Plimouh, Plimouth, Plimouthe, Plinoth, Plumouth, Ply, Plymmothe, Plymmouth, Plymmouthe, Plymmowth, Plymoath, Plymomouth, Plymoth, Plymothe, Plymouth, Plymouthe, Plympmouth, and Plymth! In these circumstances about all I can offer, in addition to Kate's advice, and the use of standard place name reference books, such as Gover, J.E.B, Mawer, A. and Stenton, F.M. (eds.) The Place-names of Devon. Cambridge: University Press (1931) 2 vols and Wilson, John M. The Imperial Gazetteer of England and Wales. Six Volumes. Edinburgh, Scotland: A. Fullerton, 1870, are: - The Online Gazetteer derived from White's 1850 Dictionary: http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/Gazetteer/ - Guide to the Manors of Devon: http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/DevonManors/ (both the above enable one to identify the parish a given place belongs to) - Various other references listed at http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/index.html#NamesGeographical Suggestions for improving this listing are welcome. Cheers Brian Randell On 1 Jan 2014, at 12:26, Kate Burhouse wrote: > Hi Bev > > When trying to find a location in the UK, our Ordnance Survey maps are > invaluable. All the places shown on the 1:50,000 maps are indexed and > you can search on this site: > > http://www.streetmap.co.uk/ > > If you search for Liverton, you'll find 3 entries in Devon. One is a > farm near Exmouth, but the other two are in the area that you're interested in. > The links take you to the 1:50,000 OS map (zoom level 4), and if you > zoom in another layer it takes you to the 1:25,000 map which is > detailed enough to show field boundaries and in this case shows 'Old > Leys Wood' but does not name the actual farm (unusual). There are > buildings near the wood which look likely, so zoom in again and you'll see them marked as 'Old Leys Farm'. > > http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=280558&Y=75394&A=Y&Z=106 > > Now that you have a location you can look at the Historical maps for > the area on http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html > > Just copy the coordinates from the Streetmap webpage (280558,75394) > and enter them on the Old Maps website, then select from the various > available maps on the right hand side of the page - the 1:2,500 are > the most detailed and make sure you zoom in to see the best detail. > >> From this you'll see that back in 1905 it was known as 'Old Lays' >> farm/wood > so this may help with research. > > The other thing that I like to do (and you probably already know > about) is to take a virtual stroll down the road using Google maps or Earth... > > http://tinyurl.com/p6gu7ma > > With best wishes > > Kate > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] >> On Behalf Of B. Edmonds >> Sent: 01 January 2014 05:16 >> To: DEVON@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [DEV] Mary Jane VOOGHT [SMERDON] died 1952 >> >> I am stuck again. >> >> Does anyone know where Old Leys Farm, Liverton is? >> Liverton is not in the Gazatteer so assume it is meant to Tiverton. >> >> The name is from the Index to Ancestry Wills, which now I cannot find >> to double check, somewhere on a memory stick I suppose. She died 17 >> Dec >> 1952 and I would love to know where she is buried also. Her husband I >> believe is Sydney John VOOGHT born 1870 at East Ogwell, anyone have >> his birth date please? He died 21 Mar 1917 at Rattery, and assume he >> is buried there. >> >> They married Mar Q 1893 at East Stonehouse. >> >> I am no good with Google maps, they confuse me. >> >> Bev >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( >> http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS >> (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON- >> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( > http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS > (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 FAX = +44 191 222 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/brian.randell ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank Kate, I have not been able to look at the maps yet as the internet is playing up again. I get so grumpy lately, I am always having problems due to congestion of the lines. Bev -------------------------------------------------- From: "Kate Burhouse" <k.burhouse@btinternet.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 10:26 PM To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [DEV] Mary Jane VOOGHT [SMERDON] died 1952 > Hi Bev > > When trying to find a location in the UK, our Ordnance Survey maps are > invaluable. All the places shown on the 1:50,000 maps are indexed and you > can search on this site: > > http://www.streetmap.co.uk/ > > If you search for Liverton, you'll find 3 entries in Devon. One is a farm > near Exmouth, but the other two are in the area that you're interested in. > The links take you to the 1:50,000 OS map (zoom level 4), and if you zoom > in > another layer it takes you to the 1:25,000 map which is detailed enough to > show field boundaries and in this case shows 'Old Leys Wood' but does not > name the actual farm (unusual). There are buildings near the wood which > look > likely, so zoom in again and you'll see them marked as 'Old Leys Farm'. > > http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=280558&Y=75394&A=Y&Z=106 > > Now that you have a location you can look at the Historical maps for the > area on http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html > > Just copy the coordinates from the Streetmap webpage (280558,75394) and > enter them on the Old Maps website, then select from the various available > maps on the right hand side of the page - the 1:2,500 are the most > detailed > and make sure you zoom in to see the best detail. > >>From this you'll see that back in 1905 it was known as 'Old Lays' >>farm/wood > so this may help with research. > > The other thing that I like to do (and you probably already know about) is > to take a virtual stroll down the road using Google maps or Earth... > > http://tinyurl.com/p6gu7ma > > With best wishes > > Kate > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On >> Behalf Of B. Edmonds >> Sent: 01 January 2014 05:16 >> To: DEVON@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [DEV] Mary Jane VOOGHT [SMERDON] died 1952 >> >> I am stuck again. >> >> Does anyone know where Old Leys Farm, Liverton is? >> Liverton is not in the Gazatteer so assume it is meant to Tiverton. >> >> The name is from the Index to Ancestry Wills, which now I cannot find >> to double check, somewhere on a memory stick I suppose. She died 17 Dec >> 1952 and I would love to know where she is buried also. Her husband I >> believe is Sydney John VOOGHT born 1870 at East Ogwell, anyone have his >> birth date please? He died 21 Mar 1917 at Rattery, and assume he is >> buried there. >> >> They married Mar Q 1893 at East Stonehouse. >> >> I am no good with Google maps, they confuse me. >> >> Bev >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( >> http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS >> (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON- >> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in >> the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3658/6465 - Release Date: 12/31/13 >