Brian As an aside I persuaded the data centre to let me have the Kain and Oliver material in GIS format so that I could try to sort out the GLS parishes when I took over (I was doing some other things as well with it) . However I recall that was conditional on not making them generally available. Have GENUKI ever approached them collectively about using the maps in a consistent GIS format and displaying them? Or might we do so? For domestic reasons I have not been able to do all that I wanted with the GIS and the version has some inconsistencies with the printed maps as well. But I hope to get back to it later in the summer Regards Paul GLS/GENUKI > On 6 Jun 2016, at 15:42, Brian Randell via <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Adrian: > > Adrian: > > GENUKI’s parish structure (and I believe Kain and Oliver) is based on the admittedly vague concept of “ancient parishes” hence the statement near the top of my Barnstaple page "St Mary Magdalen (1846), Holy Trinity (1847) and St Paul, Sticklepath are modern parishes.” > > We initially used Phillimore as our arbiter, but for Devon I eventually used first: > > Peskett, H. Guide to the Parish and Non-Parochial Registers of Devon and Cornwall, 1538-1837, Torquay, Devon and Cornwall Record Society; extra ser., v (1979). > > and then: > > Wilcox, A. National Index of Parish Registers, Volume 8, Part 5: Devon, London, Society of Genealogists (1999) 245 pp. [ISBN 1 85951 605 X] > > Cheers > > Brian > > > > I don’t have the two sources I rely on () to hand for my decisions as to what to include as an >> On 6 Jun 2016, at 11:52, Adrian Bruce via <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> On 6 June 2016 at 04:11, Jan Murphy via <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> ... >>> Showing them separately makes it easier to show the coverage for the >>> Ancient Parish versus the two newer ones. >>> >> ... >> Basically - how do you show the passage of time on a single, 2-dimensional >> map? Answer - with difficulty. >> >> However, I suspect that the answer may be simpler. As a Northerner who is >> still trying to "prove" his 4G GF is the guy of the right name from >> Barnstaple, I am hesitant in putting this forward - but there may be a >> simpler explanation for why there are 3 Barnstaple parishes on the LDS map. >> May Brian forgive me but - is GENUKI (where I checked) actually misleading >> on this? >> >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/Barnstaple#ChurchHistory has just 2 >> churches: >> >> Holy Trinity, Church of England >> St Peter and St Mary Magdalene, Church of England >> >> The Devon County Council Parish Register list has *3* sets of parish >> registers >> >> BARNSTAPLE: Holy Trinity (from 1845) >> BARNSTAPLE: St. Mary Magdalene (from 1846) >> BARNSTAPLE: St. Peter (from 1538) >> >> I finally found this link >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~valhender/dirtrans/mor1870/brnstple.htm >> which refers to " ST. MARY MAGDALEN'S CHURCH, in Bear street ... completed >> in 1846" and is a separate entry from "HOLY TRINITY ... situate in the >> Barbacan, the erection of which was commenced in 1843" and "The ANCIENT >> PARISH CHURCH, dedicated to St. Peter and St. Paul" >> >> There's then http://www.barnstaplehistory.com/st-marys-church/ which shows >> a photo of St. Mary's and the site after demolition. >> >> I *assume*, therefore, that in 1851 there were 3 parishes, as per the LDS >> map, and that at some time, St. Mary Magdalene was closed and demolished >> but not before its parish (and dedication) were merged with St. Peter, >> leading to the current dedication of St Peter and St Mary Magdalene. >> >> I *guess* that the GENUKI church history section simply reflects the 2 >> current CofE churches and that no-one's actually had the time to research >> the history and write the 3 church version that more accurately reflects >> history. I have incidentally, failed to find an explicit confirmation of, >> still less a date for, closure / merger of St Mary, so I am not suggesting >> for a minute that stuff is easy to find. >> >> Adrian >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ >> and >> the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >> List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, > NE1 7RU, UK > EMAIL = [email protected] PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 > FAX = +44 191 208 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/brian.randell > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Paul: I’m afraid the request I made to, and the permission I received from, Professor Kain and the History Data Service in 2001 concerned just GENKI/Devon. (I knew he was based in Exeter :-) The History Data Service required me to use the acknowledgement: ""Acknowledgement is made to R.J.P. Kain, R.R Oliver, the Economic and Social Research Council, the History Data Service and the UK Data Archive.” (This was from: Cressida Chappell, Head of the History Data Service, UK Data Archive, University of Essex, Wivenhoe Park, Colchester, CO4 3SQ, UK. Tel: +44 (0)1206 873984. Fax: +44 (0)1206 872003. Email: [email protected] URL: http://hds.essex.ac.uk/.) Cheers Brian On 6 Jun 2016, at 19:24, Paul Evans <[email protected]> wrote: > Brian > > As an aside I persuaded the data centre to let me have the Kain and Oliver material in GIS format so that I could try to sort out the GLS parishes when I took over (I was doing some other things as well with it) . However I recall that was conditional on not making them generally available. Have GENUKI ever approached them collectively about using the maps in a consistent GIS format and displaying them? Or might we do so? > > For domestic reasons I have not been able to do all that I wanted with the GIS and the version has some inconsistencies with the printed maps as well. But I hope to get back to it later in the summer > > Regards > > Paul > GLS/GENUKI >> On 6 Jun 2016, at 15:42, Brian Randell via <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi Adrian: >> >> Adrian: >> >> GENUKI’s parish structure (and I believe Kain and Oliver) is based on the admittedly vague concept of “ancient parishes” hence the statement near the top of my Barnstaple page "St Mary Magdalen (1846), Holy Trinity (1847) and St Paul, Sticklepath are modern parishes.” >> >> We initially used Phillimore as our arbiter, but for Devon I eventually used first: >> >> Peskett, H. Guide to the Parish and Non-Parochial Registers of Devon and Cornwall, 1538-1837, Torquay, Devon and Cornwall Record Society; extra ser., v (1979). >> >> and then: >> >> Wilcox, A. National Index of Parish Registers, Volume 8, Part 5: Devon, London, Society of Genealogists (1999) 245 pp. [ISBN 1 85951 605 X] >> >> Cheers >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> I don’t have the two sources I rely on () to hand for my decisions as to what to include as an >>> On 6 Jun 2016, at 11:52, Adrian Bruce via <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> On 6 June 2016 at 04:11, Jan Murphy via <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> ... >>>> Showing them separately makes it easier to show the coverage for the >>>> Ancient Parish versus the two newer ones. >>>> >>> ... >>> Basically - how do you show the passage of time on a single, 2-dimensional >>> map? Answer - with difficulty. >>> >>> However, I suspect that the answer may be simpler. As a Northerner who is >>> still trying to "prove" his 4G GF is the guy of the right name from >>> Barnstaple, I am hesitant in putting this forward - but there may be a >>> simpler explanation for why there are 3 Barnstaple parishes on the LDS map. >>> May Brian forgive me but - is GENUKI (where I checked) actually misleading >>> on this? >>> >>> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/Barnstaple#ChurchHistory has just 2 >>> churches: >>> >>> Holy Trinity, Church of England >>> St Peter and St Mary Magdalene, Church of England >>> >>> The Devon County Council Parish Register list has *3* sets of parish >>> registers >>> >>> BARNSTAPLE: Holy Trinity (from 1845) >>> BARNSTAPLE: St. Mary Magdalene (from 1846) >>> BARNSTAPLE: St. Peter (from 1538) >>> >>> I finally found this link >>> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~valhender/dirtrans/mor1870/brnstple.htm >>> which refers to " ST. MARY MAGDALEN'S CHURCH, in Bear street ... completed >>> in 1846" and is a separate entry from "HOLY TRINITY ... situate in the >>> Barbacan, the erection of which was commenced in 1843" and "The ANCIENT >>> PARISH CHURCH, dedicated to St. Peter and St. Paul" >>> >>> There's then http://www.barnstaplehistory.com/st-marys-church/ which shows >>> a photo of St. Mary's and the site after demolition. >>> >>> I *assume*, therefore, that in 1851 there were 3 parishes, as per the LDS >>> map, and that at some time, St. Mary Magdalene was closed and demolished >>> but not before its parish (and dedication) were merged with St. Peter, >>> leading to the current dedication of St Peter and St Mary Magdalene. >>> >>> I *guess* that the GENUKI church history section simply reflects the 2 >>> current CofE churches and that no-one's actually had the time to research >>> the history and write the 3 church version that more accurately reflects >>> history. I have incidentally, failed to find an explicit confirmation of, >>> still less a date for, closure / merger of St Mary, so I am not suggesting >>> for a minute that stuff is easy to find. >>> >>> Adrian >>> ------------------------------------------ >>> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >>> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ >>> and >>> the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >>> List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> -- >> School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, >> NE1 7RU, UK >> EMAIL = [email protected] PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 >> FAX = +44 191 208 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/brian.randell >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ >> and >> the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >> List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = [email protected] PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 FAX = +44 191 208 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/brian.randell