Well what an interesting thread with arguments for and against the concept of OPCs. I handle 5 parishes and also offer some look-ups for Crediton and other parishes where other OPCs have retired/resigned. If I get 10 enquiries a year it's been a busy season. When we started the project for Devon back in 2000 I would get 10 requests a month for the 3 parishes I looked after at that time. DFHS and FMP have made major strides forward in organising transcribing and indexing the results that it is easier to find information online as opposed to the days when we used to sit in record offices hand copying difficult to read registers. Over the years I bought many PR microfiche and still have my trusty 'fiche reader which occasionally I fire up for old time's sake. The suggestion of a revised guide for Newbies is good although the late Roy Stockdill's guide still is pertinent even though it hasn't been updated since 2003 https://www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie GenUKI/Devon is one of the best overall resources for any county in the UK - but as the saying goes - "you can lead the horse to water but ......" Kind Regards, Deborah O’Brien Devon OPC Co-ordinator DFHS Member 11261 http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/OPCproject Online Parish Clerk for Meavy, Newton Ferrers, Roborough by Torrington, Sheepstor, Walkhampton http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~dob7/index.html Researching SQUANCE, LILLICRAP, SURTEES, DANKESTER & YATES -----Original Message----- From: Jane Lucas via DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 30 October 2019 17:58 To: [email protected] Cc: Jane Lucas Subject: [DEV] Re: The Demise of the OPC? I suspect that you’re all preaching to the converted. The people that need to hear this probably don’t belong to these lists. But as there is obviously an issue, what about adding some ‘tips’ to GENUKI with suggestions of simple searches new researchers could undertake/strategies they could employ to help them get started. After all, it is completely baffling at the start. I know there is lots of help out there, but it’s not like school or university where you can follow a structured hierarchical programme, often with an expert or two to hold your hand. Most of us are self taught family history researchers. I remember thinking that I was muddling through in a fog when I first started. And I still feel like that sometimes after several years! Jane > On 30 Oct 2019, at 17:42, joy.langdon--- via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > >  > I think the Devon OPC database is disadvantaged because there isn't one central site people can find when googling and can see what is available immediately. _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I suspect that you’re all preaching to the converted. The people that need to hear this probably don’t belong to these lists. But as there is obviously an issue, what about adding some ‘tips’ to GENUKI with suggestions of simple searches new researchers could undertake/strategies they could employ to help them get started. After all, it is completely baffling at the start. I know there is lots of help out there, but it’s not like school or university where you can follow a structured hierarchical programme, often with an expert or two to hold your hand. Most of us are self taught family history researchers. I remember thinking that I was muddling through in a fog when I first started. And I still feel like that sometimes after several years! Jane > On 30 Oct 2019, at 17:42, joy.langdon--- via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > >  > I think the Devon OPC database is disadvantaged because there isn't one central site people can find when googling and can see what is available immediately.

Hi everyone, just to add some balance to this. I get a regular steam of enquiries about my parishes. Admittedly many of them requests for look ups that could have easily been achieved on line - but hey ho! We all started somewhere.  Apart from genealogical enquiries I also get requests to look up my books, about locations, houses, famous people in the parish, people who are planing to visit the area from abroad and need advice and lots more and I see it as my job to help where I can and point the way forward.  One way or another it seems to provide a service. Keith Searle On Wednesday, 30 October 2019, 16:29:39 GMT, Brian Randell <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Wayne: Well said! Cheers Brian > On 30 Oct 2019, at 16:00, Wayne Shepheard <[email protected]> wrote: > > In many recent email messages to Devon-L I have noticed that researchers > are not as acquainted with the OPC program as they used to be. What is also > apparent is that experienced genealogists and members of DFHS do not offer > newbies and others any information about what data OPCs might have. > > The rise of Internet sources has, of course, led to people finding their > own way more often. That should allow them to find the OPCs as well, but it > does not seem to be the case. > > In my own parishes, the ones I look after as an OPC, I am very cognizant of > the people and families that lived there for many generations. I am also > aware that there have been many changes in the spelling of names over the > centuries, as well as the births, deaths, marriages and migration of > people. Only through transcribing all the parish registers and other > documents, with the help of many volunteers I would add, have we been able > to put together a significant database on families. > > Yes, many of the registers are now online and you can pull up images of the > various pages. That is, of course, if you search for the right name and > spelling. I know, from my own experience that there are problems with > indexing on most of the major databases. I also know that even though sites > like FindMyPast or Ancestry say they have all the records, there are still > some missing from their library. > > For Devon, though, not all parishes registers can be found on FMP or > Ancestry, or any other site. Many can be found on the DFHS site, though, in > the Members Only area. More importantly, the information may be available > from OPCs who look after the parishes. Not all parishes are covered but > there is still a good-sized group that are. > > It does not help new researchers for others to do their work for them, such > as doing a lot of lookups. Without background on the areas or the families > they may miss some valuable information. Plus – the new researcher does not > learn about where to go and how to look for information themselves. > > I would urge people who use this messaging service to engage with OPCs as a > good starting point for your research. I would also urge those of you with > experience to direct people to OPCs and to offer tips on how to find data, > not just search what databases you know about for them. > > If anyone is wondering where to find a list of OPCs, go here: > https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/OPCproject > > Wayne Shepheard > > OPC for Cornwood, Harford, Plympton St Mary & Plympton St Maurice > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community — School of Computing, Newcastle University, 1 Science Square, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE4 5TG EMAIL = [email protected]  PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 URL = http://www.ncl.ac.uk/computing/people/profile/brianrandell.html _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

To answer the original question on the status of these films. To find the status of a film go to "search catalogue" and enter the parish of film number. This will result in a list of films a available for the parish. The final column of the list is "Format" and displays an icon. Magnifying Glass - film has been indexed Old cinema film can or dartboard - microfilmed and not yet imaged Camera - imaged and available freely online Camera with key - imaged but access restricted to either an associate FamilySearch library or full library. This depends on the agreement between FamilySearch and the Archive. For some record this may switch to an outside source, for example US Federal sites. FamilySearch have stopped copying and distributing microfilm and started disposing of their film collection leaving only a master copy stored in a mountain in Utah (Nuclear bomb proof. You might not survive but the microfilms will). Microfilm readers are being withdrawn and exiting films are being sent to a good home even if the film has not been imaged. The UK collection from the main library in South Kensington have been given to the Society of Genealogists. Films can be requested for priority imaging but I don't know how effective this is. What is interesting is that the two films required, part of the England, Devon, Plympton-Earls, Plympton St. Maurice, parish registers, 1616-1958 collection, only show a Magnifying Glass, i.e. indexed. I can only guess that FamilySearch has started denying that films are available even if they are available at the SoG and other places. Most of the films are restricted access but open browsing access includes Apprenticeship indentures, Bastardy papers, Churchwardens accounts, Settlement certificates and removal orders. Records you don't find on the subscription sites. BDMs are restricted to "partner sites" - FMP. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 30 October 2019 05:15 To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Surname MARTIN Hi, I have been reading with interest stories about the Blizzard very interesting. May I ask if anyone can help me as to where I may locate Stanley Henry Martin Born about 1891 with parents William & Caroline or Catherine. I am researching this person for a family friend. I have been visiting the Morman church just down the road from my house but the films 4635201 and 4635218 are not available. Does this mean they have not yet been digitized. What else should I be doing? I have Stanley married in Australia and on the Electoral Rolls & his AIF records. His death is on our Cemetery Data Base. Regards Liz Langford. _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I’m surprised that OPCs are feeling underused. I have had invaluable help over the years. I thought everyone would enquire if an OPC if they were stuck with their research. Even though as you all say, there are a lot of records online, that doesn’t replace local knowledge and years of working with the records. And not everything is online anyway. I try hard not to bother an OPC unless I really can’t work out the answer for myself, because I don’t want take be a nuisance or take advantage. And plus, as someone pointed out, you never learn if you don’t try to solve a problem yourself. I very much hope there will not be an OPC demise. We need people to pass on their expertise. Jane > On 30 Oct 2019, at 17:23, Wayne Shepheard <[email protected]> wrote: > > Good for you for helping out over the years, Jonathan. I am sure you > helped many people, including newbies. Perhaps for some you did too > much rather than encouraging or showing them where they could do their > own research. I have come across these people as well. > > I suspect that in your own work you have also benefited from the > advice and information provided by others. Maybe it was a tradeoff. > > As for transcribing, my experience has been that most major databases > contain significant and serious errors and having my own index has > been extremely useful to my and others' research. And, as I said, not > all parish information is online. Some OPCs do know where to go to > find it though so don't dismiss our relevance too soon. > > By the way, you are still shown as the OPC for Barnstaple on the > GENUKI site. You might expect to continue to get queries. > > Wayne > >>> On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 11:10 AM Jonathan Frayne <[email protected]> wrote: >> To play devil’s advocate; I used to be an OPC and now I am not. I copied all the records I could; I spent a considerable amount of money on books; I set up a website that had most of the “other” stuff I had collected over the years. What happened was that I got a stream of requests from people asking me to do the most basic of look-ups that they could have done for themselves on FMP/Ancestry etc. I think everyone should afford at least one subscription to a major website and the DFHS plus have knowledge of GENUKI. Then most of the basic stuff can be researched for themselves. The odd request from someone ‘out of county’ for an ancestor who happened to come here, is fine by me. It was the people who I ended up thinking were asking me to do their basic research that got a bit wearisome. Nowadays an OPC does not need to transcribe most PRs (as I did), nor the GRO indexes (as I did) nor do they need to transcribe the Censuses (as I did). Even the cemetery records are on-line (well, for ‘my’ parish they are-I did some of them!). I am not sure about what an OPC can offer nowadays. I used to go and photo local places but even they are on-line nowadays. >> What I wonder may be more useful in this day and age is to possibly offer a mentoring scheme for “newbies” - not a nice word, if word it is. That seems to be what others seem to be hinting at. I have run several starter courses in the past in which I focused on the basics, of course, but people seemed, in some cases, still to be a little nervous and a little judicious ‘hand-holding’ – without trying to sound condescending – maybe nearer what is needed. >> Jon Frayne-ex OPC Barnstaple > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I think the Devon OPC database is disadvantaged because there isn't one central site people can find when googling and can see what is available immediately. I am an OPC for the Cornwall OPC database and people seem to find me (it has its disadvantages, people not interested in genealogy find references to "online parish clerk", assume I am the parish clerk and I have received irate emails about the state of the parish churchyards and questions related to the church and the parish). One problem with the OPC information relating to Devon is that you might go in to see if there is an OPC for a parish, find there isn't several times and then stop bothering to do so. Maybe a regular reminder to the mailing list with a list of the parishes which have OPCs and a request for volunteers for those that don't would help? Over the years I have prompted people many times to look at the Genuki Devon parish page they are interested in to see if there is an OPC for their parish but people don't remember. To be fair, I normally provide a link where I have found the information if it is a free site (the GRO website in a recent reply for instance) and I usually also indicate that it came from Findmypast when it isn't and most replies to the list tend to do that. I have to agree with Jonathan Frayne that sometimes, as an OPC, I have sent people links to all the free places to look for information and they have immediately come back with another question which they could easily answer for themselves . I don't know whether they are afraid of visiting websites and getting viruse or what it is but it happens quite often. One tip I would give to people is to go and have a look at databases people recommend even if it isn't immediately relevant to you. Sometimes you find the answer to a question you didn't know you needed to ask! And if later you do find that a relative was in the Navy or army or whatever, you usually remember that there is a place you can find that information because you went and looked at it. Definitely go and look at Genuki and investigate if you haven't done so. There is a link at the bottom of all these emails and Brian Randell regularly supplies information about updates so anyone subscribed to the list should be aware of Genuki Devon and should have investigated and found what is available there (including the OPC contact details). Joy ------ Original Message ------ From: "Wayne Shepheard" <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, 30 Oct, 2019 At 16:00 Subject: [DEV] The Demise of the OPC? In many recent email messages to Devon-L I have noticed that researchers are not as acquainted with the OPC program as they used to be. What is also apparent is that experienced genealogists and members of DFHS do not offer newbies and others any information about what data OPCs might have. The rise of Internet sources has, of course, led to people finding their own way more often. That should allow them to find the OPCs as well, but it does not seem to be the case. In my own parishes, the ones I look after as an OPC, I am very cognizant of the people and families that lived there for many generations. I am also aware that there have been many changes in the spelling of names over the centuries, as well as the births, deaths, marriages and migration of people. Only through transcribing all the parish registers and other documents, with the help of many volunteers I would add, have we been able to put together a significant database on families. Yes, many of the registers are now online and you can pull up images of the various pages. That is, of course, if you search for the right name and spelling. I know, from my own experience that there are problems with indexing on most of the major databases. I also know that even though sites like FindMyPast or Ancestry say they have all the records, there are still some missing from their library. For Devon, though, not all parishes registers can be found on FMP or Ancestry, or any other site. Many can be found on the DFHS site, though, in the Members Only area. More importantly, the information may be available from OPCs who look after the parishes. Not all parishes are covered but there is still a good-sized group that are. It does not help new researchers for others to do their work for them, such as doing a lot of lookups. Without background on the areas or the families they may miss some valuable information. Plus – the new researcher does not learn about where to go and how to look for information themselves. I would urge people who use this messaging service to engage with OPCs as a good starting point for your research. I would also urge those of you with experience to direct people to OPCs and to offer tips on how to find data, not just search what databases you know about for them. If anyone is wondering where to find a list of OPCs, go here: https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/OPCproject <https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/OPCproject> Wayne Shepheard OPC for Cornwood, Harford, Plympton St Mary & Plympton St Maurice _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ <http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/> and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ <http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/> ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref <http://bit.ly/rootswebpref> Unsubscribe [email protected]">https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY <https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY> Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 <https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog <http://rootsweb.blog> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hi all. I too have moved away from genealogy to local history and now that it is so easy to record your own research on public websites mine for my current home town is supported by Word press I have been of use to the town researching our WW1 boys and now WW2 . And added some transcriptions of the Tithe apportionment and the workhouse Guardians minute book As well as trawling newly digitised local papers for the thrilling report of the first railway journey from Kings Lynn in 1843 , I am now attempting to add the local coroners work in the town and villages round . If nothing else I am enjoying it. !! Sent from my iPhone > On 30 Oct 2019, at 17:23, Wayne Shepheard <[email protected]> wrote: > > Good for you for helping out over the years, Jonathan. I am sure you > helped many people, including newbies. Perhaps for some you did too > much rather than encouraging or showing them where they could do their > own research. I have come across these people as well. > > I suspect that in your own work you have also benefited from the > advice and information provided by others. Maybe it was a tradeoff. > > As for transcribing, my experience has been that most major databases > contain significant and serious errors and having my own index has > been extremely useful to my and others' research. And, as I said, not > all parish information is online. Some OPCs do know where to go to > find it though so don't dismiss our relevance too soon. > > By the way, you are still shown as the OPC for Barnstaple on the > GENUKI site. You might expect to continue to get queries. > > Wayne > >> On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 11:10 AM Jonathan Frayne <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> To play devil’s advocate; I used to be an OPC and now I am not. I copied all the records I could; I spent a considerable amount of money on books; I set up a website that had most of the “other” stuff I had collected over the years. What happened was that I got a stream of requests from people asking me to do the most basic of look-ups that they could have done for themselves on FMP/Ancestry etc. I think everyone should afford at least one subscription to a major website and the DFHS plus have knowledge of GENUKI. Then most of the basic stuff can be researched for themselves. The odd request from someone ‘out of county’ for an ancestor who happened to come here, is fine by me. It was the people who I ended up thinking were asking me to do their basic research that got a bit wearisome. Nowadays an OPC does not need to transcribe most PRs (as I did), nor the GRO indexes (as I did) nor do they need to transcribe the Censuses (as I did). Even the cemetery records are on-line (well, for ‘my’ parish they are-I did some of them!). I am not sure about what an OPC can offer nowadays. I used to go and photo local places but even they are on-line nowadays. >> >> What I wonder may be more useful in this day and age is to possibly offer a mentoring scheme for “newbies” - not a nice word, if word it is. That seems to be what others seem to be hinting at. I have run several starter courses in the past in which I focused on the basics, of course, but people seemed, in some cases, still to be a little nervous and a little judicious ‘hand-holding’ – without trying to sound condescending – maybe nearer what is needed. >> >> Jon Frayne-ex OPC Barnstaple >> > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Adrian and others, You may not remember an article I wrote for the Devon Family Historian back in 2013 in which I described what OPCs do and may have in the way of data. I recommend you look at it again - May 2013 issue, No. 146. Other references to the program were also given in that piece. Maybe we should republish parts of it. Wayne On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 10:55 AM Adrian Bruce <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Oct 2019 at 16:30, Graham Parnell via DEVON > <[email protected]> wrote: > > ... I have noticed a marked decrease in the Silverton enquiries that I receive over the years, which is disappointing as many of the records that I have are not available via the Internet, or elsewhere to the general public. ... > > Please don't take this the wrong way because I value people who help > others - but the problem is possibly that people don't understand what > extra information the OPCs, etc., have. Indeed there might be a > further problem that people don't always understand that there *is* > further info that's not in FMP or Ancestry, etc. If I look at the > Silverton entry in the GENUKI Gazetteer, it simply says that the OPC > (Graham Parnell) "invites queries and lookup requests." Maybe it would > help to list some examples of the "other" stuff. (Getting people to > look in GENUKI is another matter, of course!) > > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Good for you for helping out over the years, Jonathan. I am sure you helped many people, including newbies. Perhaps for some you did too much rather than encouraging or showing them where they could do their own research. I have come across these people as well. I suspect that in your own work you have also benefited from the advice and information provided by others. Maybe it was a tradeoff. As for transcribing, my experience has been that most major databases contain significant and serious errors and having my own index has been extremely useful to my and others' research. And, as I said, not all parish information is online. Some OPCs do know where to go to find it though so don't dismiss our relevance too soon. By the way, you are still shown as the OPC for Barnstaple on the GENUKI site. You might expect to continue to get queries. Wayne On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 11:10 AM Jonathan Frayne <[email protected]> wrote: > > To play devil’s advocate; I used to be an OPC and now I am not. I copied all the records I could; I spent a considerable amount of money on books; I set up a website that had most of the “other” stuff I had collected over the years. What happened was that I got a stream of requests from people asking me to do the most basic of look-ups that they could have done for themselves on FMP/Ancestry etc. I think everyone should afford at least one subscription to a major website and the DFHS plus have knowledge of GENUKI. Then most of the basic stuff can be researched for themselves. The odd request from someone ‘out of county’ for an ancestor who happened to come here, is fine by me. It was the people who I ended up thinking were asking me to do their basic research that got a bit wearisome. Nowadays an OPC does not need to transcribe most PRs (as I did), nor the GRO indexes (as I did) nor do they need to transcribe the Censuses (as I did). Even the cemetery records are on-line (well, for ‘my’ parish they are-I did some of them!). I am not sure about what an OPC can offer nowadays. I used to go and photo local places but even they are on-line nowadays. > > What I wonder may be more useful in this day and age is to possibly offer a mentoring scheme for “newbies” - not a nice word, if word it is. That seems to be what others seem to be hinting at. I have run several starter courses in the past in which I focused on the basics, of course, but people seemed, in some cases, still to be a little nervous and a little judicious ‘hand-holding’ – without trying to sound condescending – maybe nearer what is needed. > > Jon Frayne-ex OPC Barnstaple >

Good for you for helping out over the years, Jonathan. I am sure you helped many people, including newbies. Perhaps for some you did too much rather than encouraging or showing them where they could do their own research. I have come across these people as well. I suspect that in your own work you have also benefited from the advice and information provided by others. Maybe it was a tradeoff. As for transcribing, my experience has been that most major databases contain significant and serious errors and having my own index has been extremely useful to my and others' research. And, as I said, not all parish information is online. Some OPCs do know where to go to find it though so don't dismiss our relevance too soon. Wayne On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 11:10 AM Jonathan Frayne <[email protected]> wrote: > > To play devil’s advocate; I used to be an OPC and now I am not. I copied all the records I could; I spent a considerable amount of money on books; I set up a website that had most of the “other” stuff I had collected over the years. What happened was that I got a stream of requests from people asking me to do the most basic of look-ups that they could have done for themselves on FMP/Ancestry etc. I think everyone should afford at least one subscription to a major website and the DFHS plus have knowledge of GENUKI. Then most of the basic stuff can be researched for themselves. The odd request from someone ‘out of county’ for an ancestor who happened to come here, is fine by me. It was the people who I ended up thinking were asking me to do their basic research that got a bit wearisome. Nowadays an OPC does not need to transcribe most PRs (as I did), nor the GRO indexes (as I did) nor do they need to transcribe the Censuses (as I did). Even the cemetery records are on-line (well, for ‘my’ parish they are-I did some of them!). I am not sure about what an OPC can offer nowadays. I used to go and photo local places but even they are on-line nowadays. > > What I wonder may be more useful in this day and age is to possibly offer a mentoring scheme for “newbies” - not a nice word, if word it is. That seems to be what others seem to be hinting at. I have run several starter courses in the past in which I focused on the basics, of course, but people seemed, in some cases, still to be a little nervous and a little judicious ‘hand-holding’ – without trying to sound condescending – maybe nearer what is needed. > > Jon Frayne-ex OPC Barnstaple

Adrian and others, You may not remember an article I wrote for the Devon Family Historian back in 2013 in which I described what OPCs do and may have in the way of data. I recommend you look at it again - May 2013 issue, No. 146. Other references to the program were also given in that piece. Maybe we should republish parts of it. Wayne On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 10:55 AM Adrian Bruce <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Oct 2019 at 16:30, Graham Parnell via DEVON > <[email protected]> wrote: > > ... I have noticed a marked decrease in the Silverton enquiries that I receive over the years, which is disappointing as many of the records that I have are not available via the Internet, or elsewhere to the general public. ... > > Please don't take this the wrong way because I value people who help > others - but the problem is possibly that people don't understand what > extra information the OPCs, etc., have. Indeed there might be a > further problem that people don't always understand that there *is* > further info that's not in FMP or Ancestry, etc. If I look at the > Silverton entry in the GENUKI Gazetteer, it simply says that the OPC > (Graham Parnell) "invites queries and lookup requests." Maybe it would > help to list some examples of the "other" stuff. (Getting people to > look in GENUKI is another matter, of course!) > > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I have to echo Jonathan's sentiments. I am an OPC, but I keep thinking I will write to Deborah O'Brien and resign. Not because I am infuriated at anything, but because nothing is happening. In fact, I forget I even am an OPC for months on end - it's only when I get the once-a-year query that I remember. And then I think of Deborah - and then I sigh and forget to do even that. Years ago, all the queries were along the lines of 'how do I do genealogy'. Now, the annual query from someone is so complicated, I don't understand the question, let alone know the answer. I too have run beginner-genealogy courses. But now I have other commitments. What's Deborah's address again? Ros Haywood OPC for Ottery St Mary ------ Original Message ------ From: "Jonathan Frayne" <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: 30/10/2019 16:55:05 Subject: [DEV] Re: The Demise of the OPC? >To play devil’s advocate; I used to be an OPC and now I am not. I copied all the records I could; I spent a considerable amount of money on books; I set up a website that had most of the “other” stuff I had collected over the years. What happened was that I got a stream of requests from people asking me to do the most basic of look-ups that they could have done for themselves on FMP/Ancestry etc. I think everyone should afford at least one subscription to a major website and the DFHS plus have knowledge of GENUKI. Then most of the basic stuff can be researched for themselves. The odd request from someone ‘out of county’ for an ancestor who happened to come here, is fine by me. It was the people who I ended up thinking were asking me to do their basic research that got a bit wearisome. Nowadays an OPC does not need to transcribe most PRs (as I did), nor the GRO indexes (as I did) nor do they need to transcribe the Censuses (as I did). Even the cemetery records are on-line (well, for ‘my’ parish they are-I did some of them!). I am not sure about what an OPC can offer nowadays. I used to go and photo local places but even they are on-line nowadays. > >What I wonder may be more useful in this day and age is to possibly offer a mentoring scheme for “newbies” - not a nice word, if word it is. That seems to be what others seem to be hinting at. I have run several starter courses in the past in which I focused on the basics, of course, but people seemed, in some cases, still to be a little nervous and a little judicious ‘hand-holding’ – without trying to sound condescending – maybe nearer what is needed. > >Jon Frayne-ex OPC Barnstaple > >Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > >From: Adrian Bruce >Sent: 30 October 2019 16:39 >To: Devon Rootsweb >Subject: [DEV] Re: The Demise of the OPC? > >On Wed, 30 Oct 2019 at 16:30, Graham Parnell via DEVON ><[email protected]> wrote: >> ... I have noticed a marked decrease in the Silverton enquiries that I receive over the years, which is disappointing as many of the records that I have are not available via the Internet, or elsewhere to the general public. ... > >Please don't take this the wrong way because I value people who help >others - but the problem is possibly that people don't understand what >extra information the OPCs, etc., have. Indeed there might be a >further problem that people don't always understand that there *is* >further info that's not in FMP or Ancestry, etc. If I look at the >Silverton entry in the GENUKI Gazetteer, it simply says that the OPC >(Graham Parnell) "invites queries and lookup requests." Maybe it would >help to list some examples of the "other" stuff. (Getting people to >look in GENUKI is another matter, of course!) > >Adrian > >_______________________________________________ >------------------------------------------ >The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >_______________________________________________ >Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] >Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > >_______________________________________________ >------------------------------------------ >The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >_______________________________________________ >Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] >Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

To play devil’s advocate; I used to be an OPC and now I am not. I copied all the records I could; I spent a considerable amount of money on books; I set up a website that had most of the “other” stuff I had collected over the years. What happened was that I got a stream of requests from people asking me to do the most basic of look-ups that they could have done for themselves on FMP/Ancestry etc. I think everyone should afford at least one subscription to a major website and the DFHS plus have knowledge of GENUKI. Then most of the basic stuff can be researched for themselves. The odd request from someone ‘out of county’ for an ancestor who happened to come here, is fine by me. It was the people who I ended up thinking were asking me to do their basic research that got a bit wearisome. Nowadays an OPC does not need to transcribe most PRs (as I did), nor the GRO indexes (as I did) nor do they need to transcribe the Censuses (as I did). Even the cemetery records are on-line (well, for ‘my’ parish they are-I did some of them!). I am not sure about what an OPC can offer nowadays. I used to go and photo local places but even they are on-line nowadays. What I wonder may be more useful in this day and age is to possibly offer a mentoring scheme for “newbies” - not a nice word, if word it is. That seems to be what others seem to be hinting at. I have run several starter courses in the past in which I focused on the basics, of course, but people seemed, in some cases, still to be a little nervous and a little judicious ‘hand-holding’ – without trying to sound condescending – maybe nearer what is needed. Jon Frayne-ex OPC Barnstaple Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Adrian Bruce Sent: 30 October 2019 16:39 To: Devon Rootsweb Subject: [DEV] Re: The Demise of the OPC? On Wed, 30 Oct 2019 at 16:30, Graham Parnell via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > ... I have noticed a marked decrease in the Silverton enquiries that I receive over the years, which is disappointing as many of the records that I have are not available via the Internet, or elsewhere to the general public. ... Please don't take this the wrong way because I value people who help others - but the problem is possibly that people don't understand what extra information the OPCs, etc., have. Indeed there might be a further problem that people don't always understand that there *is* further info that's not in FMP or Ancestry, etc. If I look at the Silverton entry in the GENUKI Gazetteer, it simply says that the OPC (Graham Parnell) "invites queries and lookup requests." Maybe it would help to list some examples of the "other" stuff. (Getting people to look in GENUKI is another matter, of course!) Adrian _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hi Adrian: Your point is a good one (though the Silverton page’s OPC note does point out that Graham is author of the Book of Silverton, which is a pretty broad hint as to how helpful he might be - and elsewhere an Index to this book is provided). In general, though, the OPC notes under Genealogy in the various parish pages either list the OPC’s resources, or point to the OPC’s web page where these are listed. Cheers Brian > On 30 Oct 2019, at 16:39, Adrian Bruce <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Oct 2019 at 16:30, Graham Parnell via DEVON > <[email protected]> wrote: >> ... I have noticed a marked decrease in the Silverton enquiries that I receive over the years, which is disappointing as many of the records that I have are not available via the Internet, or elsewhere to the general public. ... > > Please don't take this the wrong way because I value people who help > others - but the problem is possibly that people don't understand what > extra information the OPCs, etc., have. Indeed there might be a > further problem that people don't always understand that there *is* > further info that's not in FMP or Ancestry, etc. If I look at the > Silverton entry in the GENUKI Gazetteer, it simply says that the OPC > (Graham Parnell) "invites queries and lookup requests." Maybe it would > help to list some examples of the "other" stuff. (Getting people to > look in GENUKI is another matter, of course!) > > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community — School of Computing, Newcastle University, 1 Science Square, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE4 5TG EMAIL = [email protected] PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 URL = http://www.ncl.ac.uk/computing/people/profile/brianrandell.html

Hi Chris: I urge you to contact Deborah O’Brien, who run’s GENUKI/Devon’s OPC scheme, and let her publicise the fact that you are willing to help people interested in your village/parish, by adding your name to the OPC list. You might gain some interesting further contacts yourself this way. Cheers Brian Randelj > On 30 Oct 2019, at 16:34, Chris Whitehead <[email protected]> wrote: > > Wayne - > There are people who act as OPC's without having the "title". > Since I moved to Devon, I'm doing less family history and more local history - I'm part of a group researching the history of our village and use my family history experience to help with local history. > None of the group are an OPC, but if you have a query about a family member who lived in the village - or about village history - you can contact us via the village website. > Chris > > > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community — School of Computing, Newcastle University, 1 Science Square, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE4 5TG EMAIL = [email protected] PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 URL = http://www.ncl.ac.uk/computing/people/profile/brianrandell.html

On Wed, 30 Oct 2019 at 16:30, Graham Parnell via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > ... I have noticed a marked decrease in the Silverton enquiries that I receive over the years, which is disappointing as many of the records that I have are not available via the Internet, or elsewhere to the general public. ... Please don't take this the wrong way because I value people who help others - but the problem is possibly that people don't understand what extra information the OPCs, etc., have. Indeed there might be a further problem that people don't always understand that there *is* further info that's not in FMP or Ancestry, etc. If I look at the Silverton entry in the GENUKI Gazetteer, it simply says that the OPC (Graham Parnell) "invites queries and lookup requests." Maybe it would help to list some examples of the "other" stuff. (Getting people to look in GENUKI is another matter, of course!) Adrian

Wayne - There are people who act as OPC's without having the "title". Since I moved to Devon, I'm doing less family history and more local history - I'm part of a group researching the history of our village and use my family history experience to help with local history. None of the group are an OPC, but if you have a query about a family member who lived in the village - or about village history - you can contact us via the village website. Chris

I totally agree Wayne. I have noticed a marked decrease in the Silverton enquiries that I receive over the years, which is disappointing as many of the records that I have are not available via the Internet, or elsewhere to the general public. The OPC scheme is a most worthwhile asset that is becoming underused. Graham Parnell in Silverton -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Shepheard [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 30 October 2019 16:01 To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] The Demise of the OPC? In many recent email messages to Devon-L I have noticed that researchers are not as acquainted with the OPC program as they used to be. What is also apparent is that experienced genealogists and members of DFHS do not offer newbies and others any information about what data OPCs might have. The rise of Internet sources has, of course, led to people finding their own way more often. That should allow them to find the OPCs as well, but it does not seem to be the case. In my own parishes, the ones I look after as an OPC, I am very cognizant of the people and families that lived there for many generations. I am also aware that there have been many changes in the spelling of names over the centuries, as well as the births, deaths, marriages and migration of people. Only through transcribing all the parish registers and other documents, with the help of many volunteers I would add, have we been able to put together a significant database on families. Yes, many of the registers are now online and you can pull up images of the various pages. That is, of course, if you search for the right name and spelling. I know, from my own experience that there are problems with indexing on most of the major databases. I also know that even though sites like FindMyPast or Ancestry say they have all the records, there are still some missing from their library. For Devon, though, not all parishes registers can be found on FMP or Ancestry, or any other site. Many can be found on the DFHS site, though, in the Members Only area. More importantly, the information may be available from OPCs who look after the parishes. Not all parishes are covered but there is still a good-sized group that are. It does not help new researchers for others to do their work for them, such as doing a lot of lookups. Without background on the areas or the families they may miss some valuable information. Plus – the new researcher does not learn about where to go and how to look for information themselves. I would urge people who use this messaging service to engage with OPCs as a good starting point for your research. I would also urge those of you with experience to direct people to OPCs and to offer tips on how to find data, not just search what databases you know about for them. If anyone is wondering where to find a list of OPCs, go here: https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/OPCproject Wayne Shepheard OPC for Cornwood, Harford, Plympton St Mary & Plympton St Maurice _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hi Wayne: Well said! Cheers Brian > On 30 Oct 2019, at 16:00, Wayne Shepheard <[email protected]> wrote: > > In many recent email messages to Devon-L I have noticed that researchers > are not as acquainted with the OPC program as they used to be. What is also > apparent is that experienced genealogists and members of DFHS do not offer > newbies and others any information about what data OPCs might have. > > The rise of Internet sources has, of course, led to people finding their > own way more often. That should allow them to find the OPCs as well, but it > does not seem to be the case. > > In my own parishes, the ones I look after as an OPC, I am very cognizant of > the people and families that lived there for many generations. I am also > aware that there have been many changes in the spelling of names over the > centuries, as well as the births, deaths, marriages and migration of > people. Only through transcribing all the parish registers and other > documents, with the help of many volunteers I would add, have we been able > to put together a significant database on families. > > Yes, many of the registers are now online and you can pull up images of the > various pages. That is, of course, if you search for the right name and > spelling. I know, from my own experience that there are problems with > indexing on most of the major databases. I also know that even though sites > like FindMyPast or Ancestry say they have all the records, there are still > some missing from their library. > > For Devon, though, not all parishes registers can be found on FMP or > Ancestry, or any other site. Many can be found on the DFHS site, though, in > the Members Only area. More importantly, the information may be available > from OPCs who look after the parishes. Not all parishes are covered but > there is still a good-sized group that are. > > It does not help new researchers for others to do their work for them, such > as doing a lot of lookups. Without background on the areas or the families > they may miss some valuable information. Plus – the new researcher does not > learn about where to go and how to look for information themselves. > > I would urge people who use this messaging service to engage with OPCs as a > good starting point for your research. I would also urge those of you with > experience to direct people to OPCs and to offer tips on how to find data, > not just search what databases you know about for them. > > If anyone is wondering where to find a list of OPCs, go here: > https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/OPCproject > > Wayne Shepheard > > OPC for Cornwood, Harford, Plympton St Mary & Plympton St Maurice > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community — School of Computing, Newcastle University, 1 Science Square, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE4 5TG EMAIL = [email protected] PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 URL = http://www.ncl.ac.uk/computing/people/profile/brianrandell.html

In many recent email messages to Devon-L I have noticed that researchers are not as acquainted with the OPC program as they used to be. What is also apparent is that experienced genealogists and members of DFHS do not offer newbies and others any information about what data OPCs might have. The rise of Internet sources has, of course, led to people finding their own way more often. That should allow them to find the OPCs as well, but it does not seem to be the case. In my own parishes, the ones I look after as an OPC, I am very cognizant of the people and families that lived there for many generations. I am also aware that there have been many changes in the spelling of names over the centuries, as well as the births, deaths, marriages and migration of people. Only through transcribing all the parish registers and other documents, with the help of many volunteers I would add, have we been able to put together a significant database on families. Yes, many of the registers are now online and you can pull up images of the various pages. That is, of course, if you search for the right name and spelling. I know, from my own experience that there are problems with indexing on most of the major databases. I also know that even though sites like FindMyPast or Ancestry say they have all the records, there are still some missing from their library. For Devon, though, not all parishes registers can be found on FMP or Ancestry, or any other site. Many can be found on the DFHS site, though, in the Members Only area. More importantly, the information may be available from OPCs who look after the parishes. Not all parishes are covered but there is still a good-sized group that are. It does not help new researchers for others to do their work for them, such as doing a lot of lookups. Without background on the areas or the families they may miss some valuable information. Plus – the new researcher does not learn about where to go and how to look for information themselves. I would urge people who use this messaging service to engage with OPCs as a good starting point for your research. I would also urge those of you with experience to direct people to OPCs and to offer tips on how to find data, not just search what databases you know about for them. If anyone is wondering where to find a list of OPCs, go here: https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/OPCproject Wayne Shepheard OPC for Cornwood, Harford, Plympton St Mary & Plympton St Maurice