Right On! Paul. Of course FMP is also part of the Ancestry group of companies, so you are just paying an extra fee for what you used to get with your Ancestry subscription. The demise of the traffic on the Rootsweb Lists came about when they went absent for some time. Devon is one of the few that has any activity these days. The Rootsweb Lists including this one are still owned and operated by Ancestry and it mystifies me as to why the members are still posting here rather than joining me and the members of the DFHS on their Facebook page. Cheers, Nancy Frey, Windsor, ON, Canada OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset [email protected] On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 8:20 PM Paul Hockie via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > > Terry, >one is > I first transcribed for a society in the early nineties and have taken part in a number of projects since, including the NBI and the National Archives (who issue a list of conventions to be used for names, places and legibility that make searching easier). Each of these was carefully managed and controlled. Yes there were mistakes but every effort was made to ensure high quality. Nobody is criticising the work of FHS volunteers. The works of Fursden, Philimore and others are also worthy of praise. The issue is that much indexing over the last few years has been outsourced to prisons, overseas call centres and the like. The problem is exacerbated by FMP et al. There are entries on FMP that have no information including no names and the image is a blank page or the film header. Events that are in the index 6 or more times. The search engines are designed on the google principle of quantity over quality. There are entries that just give a name with no indication where it came from. FamilySearch announced that they were going to index thousands of films over a few years and FMP announced they would release 1m entries every week. Quality went out of the window. > > Volunteers good - FMP etc. bad. > > Cheers > > Paul >

Hi Judy, Love your eMail address. If you had posted on Facebook I would have given you not only a 'like' but a 'heart' as well. Unfortunately the antiquated Rootsweb Lists don't allow that as they require plain text. I hope to see you at the DFHS Facebook page -- you'll love it. Cheers, Nancy Frey, Windsor, ON, Canada OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset [email protected] On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 8:19 PM Heywyre Akers <[email protected]> wrote: > > Well said Nancy > > When I started out and had to search for rellies in England (while living in Canada), I had to physically write letters to intermediaries in England and pay them handsomely to do the research for me. > > I thrived on mailing lists like this one that opened up many closed doors and found some wonderful, and very helpful, people willing to do not only look-ups but also take photos of old houses, grave sites etc, while guiding me into uncharted territory and providing me with a wealth of information - I will be forever grateful for their kind generosity > > I vowed long ago that I would repay the favour to newbies but like you said, they would rather have someone else do all the work and just provide them with the answer and all for free I might add. Even my own family is an example of laziness that goes far beyond not knowing what to do - but I will spare you the drudgery of reading such nonsense. > > I am still more than willing to assist but it is now saved for those who are at least willing to make some effort to understand the work involved > > Judy > BC Canada

Hi Paul, When did this start? Are they planning on closing the LDS FHCs completely? I used to visit the one in Oshawa when I lived in Newcastle, ON but haven't been to the one here in Windsor although it is only a few blocks away. Methinks it is time to make a visit and see the lay of the land. Cheers, Nancy Frey, Windsor, ON, Canada OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset [email protected] On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 7:39 PM Paul Hockie via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > > The LDS have stopped distributing microfilms whether or not they have been imaged. The local LDS libraries have been told to dispose of both films and readers (not all have complied). The UK central library, formerly in South Kensington/Kew was donated to the Society if Genealogists. Users can ask for un-imaged films to be given priority but films will not be copied. > > Cheers > > Paul

Sorry Wayne. I did read your first post and wondered why people were responding about a book already written. Then I failed to put 2+2 together and forgot about your original post. I was always told 'if the shoe fits, wear it' so at least some of my comments hit a sore spot or they wouldn't have prompted this type of response to comments which were not directed at you personally but those asking about the old book. My posting started "Dear Listers". At 80 years of age I do 'tell t like it is' as I've been there and done that. I too do research for my writing and sometimes I don't get the answers I asked for. Hopefully you will, but I feel you are asking in the wrong forum. If you would prefer I will definitely ignore all your postings in future. You may wish you hadn't been so unkind in your remarks as I am probably one person with connections in Devon that could put you in touch with the people whose ancestors were there. Unless my arithmetic is erroneous I doubt any of the survivors are still living. Cheers, Nancy Frey, Windsor, ON, Canada OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset [email protected] On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 6:07 PM Wayne Shepheard <[email protected]> wrote: > > Nancy, > > I was very clear about what I asked for, stories from descendants of families who lived through the event, nothing else. > > Some people that decided to respond had lots to say about everything else, from Internet searches to current weather in Europe and North America. Only a few sent me (directly) recollections of their family members which will be helpful. > > Your comments are indeed harsh and uncalled for. Your assumption that I have not researched the subject is off base, especially since, in additional messages I did comment that I had a lot of information about the storm as well as a copy of the particular book that you found a reference for. > > Perhaps you should have continued to ignore the request and the subject matter. > > Wayne ]

Hi Jon & others, as Wayne puts it: Brian has been very quick. There is no longer any reference to you or anyone else as being OPC for Barnstaple on the GENUKI Barnstaple page.0 There are a lot of old books, including the one containing the Barnstaple Parish Registers published in 1903 (of which I have a copy on my hard drive) available to read or download at https://archive.org/index.php. It doesn't actually say the church is St. Peter's but your local knowledge tells you that. And in the preface the editor Thos. Wainwright explains what information was and wasn't transcribed. And it is NOT indexed. There is nothing to say who actually transcribed the information from the PRs or when. What is not clear to me is where the FS. Ancestry and FreeREG got their transcriptions and if the original PR book exists in the Devon Record Office or do they merely have a copy of Wainwright's Book. I wish I could see the original PRs.. There are other online repositories for old books. You will also find access to some books not out of copyright on FS & Ancestry. With the latter I usually take a screen shot of the relevant pages as well the title page of the book and sometimes the Index. Before attempting to transcribe old records you need to get familiar with how handwriting differed over the years. There are a lot of tutorials online and a knowledge of Secretary Hand is helpful, even essential if transcribing any of the old PRs as is a knowledge of Latin as used by clerics. All this is available online if you really want to know. Nobody is 100% accurate and that is why groups like FreeREG have people who double check the work and bring in more 'eyes' if there is any disagreement. Those who can do this work are departing this earth very rapidly these days and few are taking their place. As to what an OPC can add to their page the first thing that comes to mind is a redirection to the location of books like this. I would also add transcriptions of Wills and other documents relating to people in the parish. Old newspaper clippings and postmortems are great additions, although these have to be transcribed first. Photographs of places in the parish both past and present are another item. Just because the usual things like PRs and Census records are now adequately covered elsewhere doesn't make an OPC site useless. Except in Devon where all this is on the GENUKI page. Cheers, Nancy Frey Windsor, ON, Canada OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset [email protected] On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 4:00 PM Jonathan Frayne <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Wayne (and others) > > I was a little concerned to hear I am still the OPC for Barnstaple, apparently. I looked and yes I am! What must be very frustrating for people is that it has my name but an old email address! I think Brian was asked to remove that from GENUKI, but if not could I ask him here and now to do so. It was some time ago and I think somebody asked to be able to keep the information on the website available and I said yes. Not sure where that went to. > > To respond to the rest of your message: > > It made me feel good (and wanted) to respond to people’s requests for a while. Then I realised that being helpful could be over-used and then I thought that maybe the big websites may have rules about copying ‘their’ information to third parties-and they do! The puzzling messages noted elsewhere were a relief from the mundane, even if I had to say go and get a researcher. Maybe I was too gentle to be able to tell people to go and look something up for themselves. I recall when this discussion site was filled with just such look up requests! > > I have never received information through being an OPC that was of use to me. What has been very useful is the much maligned Ancestry from which I receive a continuing stream of very useful emails from other members . . . > > I have transcribed many documents but after doing some for the DFHS I found that I was not very accurate. I am glad you are, but I don’t comment on accuracy nowadays . . .3 > > BTW The PC transcript for Barnstaple St Peters has been on-line for years. It was first published by the DCRS (I think) as a very large leather bound volume which had been prepared by Chanter and/or Wainwright and covered 1537-1812. It is on-line in most of the large websites as a result and there is an original copy in Barnstaple Record Office. I doubt anyone has ever checked it for accuracy as it is enormous, beyond noting any discrepancies they may have noted. I used to be on good terms with the archivist/librarians in the record office ( I would still be but I don’t have the reasons to visit nowadays). They have not notified me of any discrepancies they have. > > Jon Frayne >

Hi Terry, The key words in your post are "our transcribers". The members of this genealogical community have done a wonderful job of interpreting what is left to us as Parish Registers. Handwriting is often poor, pages are torn or otherwise marred etc. But as everyone is pointing out a knowledge of the names of towns villages and streets as well as the local surnames etc. is very important when transcribing. It aids the imagination to see what is left there on the page. The transcriptions being criticized are those done by commercial firms (and perhaps the LDS) who farmed out their transcriptions to be done by people whose first language was not English and who had no knowledge of English geography. And then they expect us to pay to read them. If you check you will find that a lot of the sites are owned by one conglomerate and, as has been suggested, the records you are now asked to pay a separate fee for were once part of a subscription to their parent company. The same one which is hosting this list. If at all possible, I go to those transcriptions done by our own community and yes, the volunteers deserve a huge thank you for the work they have done. Some of us are still at it today. Cheers, Nancy Frey, Windsor, ON, Canada OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset [email protected] On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 3:58 PM <[email protected]> wrote: > > With the best will in the world, of course, databases & indexes contain > "errors" LOOK at original records- IF you know the name you are looking > for it is easier BUT a straight transcription is EXCEEDINGLY difficult > with the quality of the script and the ink used- If you don't believe me > take a look at Highweek parish both the Devon FHS transcriptions and > FMPs are full of question marks, blank spaces etc. > > Don't you think that all our volunteer transcribers and indexers deserve > praise not criticism. They do their best and have done so for some 40 > plus years, but obviously from some of the messages I've read on here > today their efforts have been in vain. > > IF you think you can do better, try it. If you're a member of Devon > FHS just look at the parish register images in the members' area and if > you want to give it a try contact [email protected]

Terry, I first transcribed for a society in the early nineties and have taken part in a number of projects since, including the NBI and the National Archives (who issue a list of conventions to be used for names, places and legibility that make searching easier). Each of these was carefully managed and controlled. Yes there were mistakes but every effort was made to ensure high quality. Nobody is criticising the work of FHS volunteers. The works of Fursden, Philimore and others are also worthy of praise. The issue is that much indexing over the last few years has been outsourced to prisons, overseas call centres and the like. The problem is exacerbated by FMP et al. There are entries on FMP that have no information including no names and the image is a blank page or the film header. Events that are in the index 6 or more times. The search engines are designed on the google principle of quantity over quality. There are entries that just give a name with no indication where it came from. FamilySearch announced that they were going to index thousands of films over a few years and FMP announced they would release 1m entries every week. Quality went out of the window. Volunteers good - FMP etc. bad. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 30 October 2019 19:56 To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Transcriptions & indexers With the best will in the world, of course, databases & indexes contain "errors" LOOK at original records- IF you know the name you are looking for it is easier BUT a straight transcription is EXCEEDINGLY difficult with the quality of the script and the ink used- If you don't believe me take a look at Highweek parish both the Devon FHS transcriptions and FMPs are full of question marks, blank spaces etc. Don't you think that all our volunteer transcribers and indexers deserve praise not criticism. They do their best and have done so for some 40 plus years, but obviously  from some of the messages I've read on here today their efforts have been in vain. IF you think you can do better, try it.   If you're a member of Devon FHS just look at the parish register images in the members' area and if you want to give it a try contact [email protected] Terry -- Chairman - Devon Family History Society Registered Charity No. 282490 Mayflower International Genealogical Conference 2020 <http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/mayflower_conference.pdf> Web site: http://www.devonfhs.org.uk <http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/> Email address: [email protected] Join from just £12 a year _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Well said Nancy When I started out and had to search for rellies in England (while living in Canada), I had to physically write letters to intermediaries in England and pay them handsomely to do the research for me. I thrived on mailing lists like this one that opened up many closed doors and found some wonderful, and very helpful, people willing to do not only look-ups but also take photos of old houses, grave sites etc, while guiding me into uncharted territory and providing me with a wealth of information - I will be forever grateful for their kind generosity I vowed long ago that I would repay the favour to newbies but like you said, they would rather have someone else do all the work and just provide them with the answer and all for free I might add. Even my own family is an example of laziness that goes far beyond not knowing what to do - but I will spare you the drudgery of reading such nonsense. I am still more than willing to assist but it is now saved for those who are at least willing to make some effort to understand the work involved Judy BC Canada ________________________________ From: Nancy Frey <[email protected]> Sent: October 30, 2019 5:02 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: [DEV] Re: The Demise of the OPC? Hi Jon, I'd like to address your points about 'newbies'. Most of them are younger people who are used to getting instant answers to even the most basic question via their cell phone, probably in a cryptic language that people like me often don't understand. Actually reading the instructions on how to do something is totally foreign and perhaps outside their capabilities, our education systems being what they are today. There are hundreds of tutorials online starting with Family Search all the way to the UK National Archives. But why look something up when with a couple of taps on the cell phone can get someone else to do the work? And actually taking a course to learn something -- even if its free -- that's too much like school! There was a great course online recently given free by the University of Strathclyde in Scotland. Most genealogists will know that it is one of the few Universities worldwide that give degrees in genealogy. I took the course just out of curiosity and found it very basic, but just what someone getting started needed. There weren't many students in my class. How did we get this way? I have no idea. The phrase "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink" comes to mind. More and more I find that the experienced genealogists that I know are on the List or in the Group just ignore these people. The responses given are usually from some other uninformed person just like them. When one genealogist had the courage to point this out in a Facebook Group she only got a few 'likes'. Most people criticized her for being 'unkind' and 'not helpful'. Yes, the truth hurts. I'm so glad I started my research much earlier on as I learned a lot of what I know about genealogy from fellow Rootsweb Listers. But then before asking for help, I had done my homework. I stated what I already knew and where I had looked and asked for suggestions and directions. I didn't ask for anyone to do the research for me. I have many mentors I still rely on today although I've lost a few as we're all getting older. I guess it takes the ability to realize that you don't know it all and actually listen to what other people have to say. That appears to be something the younger generation doesn't have. Cheers,. Nancy Frey, Windsor, ON, Canada OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset [email protected] On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:55 PM Jonathan Frayne <[email protected]> wrote: > > To play devil’s advocate; I used to be an OPC and now I am not. I copied all the records I could; I spent a considerable amount of money on books; I set up a website that had most of the “other” stuff I had collected over the years. What happened was that I got a stream of requests from people asking me to do the most basic of look-ups that they could have done for themselves on FMP/Ancestry etc. I think everyone should afford at least one subscription to a major website and the DFHS plus have knowledge of GENUKI. Then most of the basic stuff can be researched for themselves. The odd request from someone ‘out of county’ for an ancestor who happened to come here, is fine by me. It was the people who I ended up thinking were asking me to do their basic research that got a bit wearisome. Nowadays an OPC does not need to transcribe most PRs (as I did), nor the GRO indexes (as I did) nor do they need to transcribe the Censuses (as I did). Even the cemetery records are on-line (well, for ‘my’ parish they are-I did some of them!). I am not sure about what an OPC can offer nowadays. I used to go and photo local places but even they are on-line nowadays. > > What I wonder may be more useful in this day and age is to possibly offer a mentoring scheme for “newbies” - not a nice word, if word it is. That seems to be what others seem to be hinting at. I have run several starter courses in the past in which I focused on the basics, of course, but people seemed, in some cases, still to be a little nervous and a little judicious ‘hand-holding’ – without trying to sound condescending – maybe nearer what is needed. > > Jon Frayne-ex OPC Barnstaplecestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hi Jan, Thanks so much for your input on FS catalogs. I must admit I am still uncomfortable looking things up there, so I'm archiving your eMail for my next foray. I also followed up on the site mentioned in your signature. I'm going back there to sign up. Cheers, Nancy Frey, Windsor, ON, Canada OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset [email protected] On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 3:36 PM Jan Murphy <[email protected]> wrote: <snip> > > When I am using Ancestry and Findmypast, and I find a record which has been > shared from FamilySearch, I go back to FamilySearch to read the catalog > entry and look at the Film Notes, which give me more information about how > the records are arranged. > > One trick that a lot of people miss is that the record books can have their > own index pages inside, and you can use those to find people in the same > way you would do if you were using the physical book. This is how I first > discovered that the browse-only versions on FMP can be more extensive than > the records that had been indexed. > > A special caution for FamilySearch. If you navigate to records via the map > (e.g. using the Devon topic page) list of Browse-only collections will show > ONLY the collections that have NO indexing at all. Once indexing is > underway on a collection, it drops out of that list. So if you want to > make sure you've seen everything there is for an area, go in through the > Catalog and do a place search, and check all jurisdictions for your place. > > If you need help using the catalog or browsing, try the video classes at > FamilySearch. The search in FamilySearch's help center lessons can be > erratic, so there's a page in the Wiki which lists the videos. > https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Classes_in_the_Learning_Center > > Jan Murphy > [email protected] > Moderator Pro Tempore > genealogy.stackexchange.com <snip>

Hi Jon, I'd like to address your points about 'newbies'. Most of them are younger people who are used to getting instant answers to even the most basic question via their cell phone, probably in a cryptic language that people like me often don't understand. Actually reading the instructions on how to do something is totally foreign and perhaps outside their capabilities, our education systems being what they are today. There are hundreds of tutorials online starting with Family Search all the way to the UK National Archives. But why look something up when with a couple of taps on the cell phone can get someone else to do the work? And actually taking a course to learn something -- even if its free -- that's too much like school! There was a great course online recently given free by the University of Strathclyde in Scotland. Most genealogists will know that it is one of the few Universities worldwide that give degrees in genealogy. I took the course just out of curiosity and found it very basic, but just what someone getting started needed. There weren't many students in my class. How did we get this way? I have no idea. The phrase "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink" comes to mind. More and more I find that the experienced genealogists that I know are on the List or in the Group just ignore these people. The responses given are usually from some other uninformed person just like them. When one genealogist had the courage to point this out in a Facebook Group she only got a few 'likes'. Most people criticized her for being 'unkind' and 'not helpful'. Yes, the truth hurts. I'm so glad I started my research much earlier on as I learned a lot of what I know about genealogy from fellow Rootsweb Listers. But then before asking for help, I had done my homework. I stated what I already knew and where I had looked and asked for suggestions and directions. I didn't ask for anyone to do the research for me. I have many mentors I still rely on today although I've lost a few as we're all getting older. I guess it takes the ability to realize that you don't know it all and actually listen to what other people have to say. That appears to be something the younger generation doesn't have. Cheers,. Nancy Frey, Windsor, ON, Canada OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset [email protected] On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:55 PM Jonathan Frayne <[email protected]> wrote: > > To play devil’s advocate; I used to be an OPC and now I am not. I copied all the records I could; I spent a considerable amount of money on books; I set up a website that had most of the “other” stuff I had collected over the years. What happened was that I got a stream of requests from people asking me to do the most basic of look-ups that they could have done for themselves on FMP/Ancestry etc. I think everyone should afford at least one subscription to a major website and the DFHS plus have knowledge of GENUKI. Then most of the basic stuff can be researched for themselves. The odd request from someone ‘out of county’ for an ancestor who happened to come here, is fine by me. It was the people who I ended up thinking were asking me to do their basic research that got a bit wearisome. Nowadays an OPC does not need to transcribe most PRs (as I did), nor the GRO indexes (as I did) nor do they need to transcribe the Censuses (as I did). Even the cemetery records are on-line (well, for ‘my’ parish they are-I did some of them!). I am not sure about what an OPC can offer nowadays. I used to go and photo local places but even they are on-line nowadays. > > What I wonder may be more useful in this day and age is to possibly offer a mentoring scheme for “newbies” - not a nice word, if word it is. That seems to be what others seem to be hinting at. I have run several starter courses in the past in which I focused on the basics, of course, but people seemed, in some cases, still to be a little nervous and a little judicious ‘hand-holding’ – without trying to sound condescending – maybe nearer what is needed. > > Jon Frayne-ex OPC Barnstaplecestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I actually believe these films and many other index entries that are short on detail are part of a deal between LDS, Findmypast and probably the Record Offices. If you click through on the other restricted images for the parish you get a pointer to FindmyPast. LDS now have a number of index records that point to FMP and Ancestry and there are records on both FMP and Ancestry that show an LDS film as their source. It's a very murky world. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: Jan Murphy [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 30 October 2019 21:14 To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Finding Devon resources on FamilySearch (was Re: Re: Surname MARTIN) I looked at the catalog entry for the parishes mentioned by Paul, and at first glance, the situation is very odd. How can one have indexes of parish registers without any images to index? The publication date of the collection is from 2009, and the collection consists of digital images, which suggests to me this is a recent 'filming' project which was never on microfilm. You can see that all the entries don't have a film number --- they only have a DGS number. At first I thought, perhaps this parish was caught in the transition between FamilySearch's policy of not putting up registers until they had been indexed first, and their current policy of getting images ready for us to browse first, rather than making us wait for the index. If there had been an earlier filming for this parish, I would expect the films to be in the catalog under a film number. However, looking at the Film Notes, the magnifying-glass-only films are: Baptisms, v. 695/6, 1886-1919 (DGS 4635201) Baptisms, v. 768/1, 1919-1950 (DGS 4635218) I suspect the reason these images are not online yet are because of privacy issues. We are just now coming to the point where the most recent items on DGS 4635201 are 100 years old. This is not like the 1939 Register where all the images are public, but the most recent people who might be living are redacted. FamilySearch can't publish the register images until all of the entries on the roll (or virtual roll, in this case) have cleared the access restrictions, which are negotiated for each collection. The parish must have dictated which registers were allowed to be put online and which ones could be index-only. As part of the transition from microfilm to digital images, FamilySearch is re-negotiating all of the permissions before the images are put online. Of these two 'films', I would expect DGS 4635201 might show up eventually, but I wouldn't expect DGS 4635218 to be put online during my lifetime, since that sequence ends in 1950. Note too that other Devon records like some of the Bishop's Transcripts can be viewed online, but can't be downloaded -- if you want a copy, the user is directed to order one from the Devon County Council. If you need images from these items, try contacting the Plymouth and West Devon Record Office, giving the reference listed. Jan Murphy [email protected] Moderator Pro Tempore genealogy.stackexchange.com On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 10:45 AM Paul Hockie via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > To answer the original question on the status of these films. To find the > status of a film go to "search catalogue" and enter the parish of film > number. This will result in a list of films a available for the parish. The > final column of the list is "Format" and displays an icon. > Magnifying Glass - film has been indexed > Old cinema film can or dartboard - microfilmed and not yet imaged > Camera - imaged and available freely online > Camera with key - imaged but access restricted to either an associate > FamilySearch library or full library. This depends on the agreement between > FamilySearch and the Archive. For some record this may switch to an outside > source, for example US Federal sites. > > FamilySearch have stopped copying and distributing microfilm and started > disposing of their film collection leaving only a master copy stored in a > mountain in Utah (Nuclear bomb proof. You might not survive but the > microfilms will). Microfilm readers are being withdrawn and exiting films > are being sent to a good home even if the film has not been imaged. The UK > collection from the main library in South Kensington have been given to the > Society of Genealogists. Films can be requested for priority imaging but I > don't know how effective this is. > > What is interesting is that the two films required, part of the England, > Devon, Plympton-Earls, Plympton St. Maurice, parish registers, 1616-1958 > collection, only show a Magnifying Glass, i.e. indexed. I can only guess > that FamilySearch has started denying that films are available even if they > are available at the SoG and other places. Most of the films are restricted > access but open browsing access includes Apprenticeship indentures, > Bastardy papers, Churchwardens accounts, Settlement certificates and > removal orders. Records you don't find on the subscription sites. BDMs are > restricted to "partner sites" - FMP. > > Cheers > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

The LDS have stopped distributing microfilms whether or not they have been imaged. The local LDS libraries have been told to dispose of both films and readers (not all have complied). The UK central library, formerly in South Kensington/Kew was donated to the Society if Genealogists. Users can ask for un-imaged films to be given priority but films will not be copied. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: Nancy Frey [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 30 October 2019 22:43 To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Re: Surname MARTIN Hi Ann, It has been a while since I visited one of the LDS Family History Centres but to my recollection if there is a film that they don't have in their library it can be ordered in for you from Salt Lake City. There is probably a charge for the service now. My suggestion would be to go to the Family Search website and read some of their tutorials on how to look things up in their catalogue. Ensure those films are what you want and then contact your local FHC and ask about ordering in. Have you searched the FS site online for the records you are looking for. I believe you can search by film number. If they haven't been indexed you will have to see the microfilm. Hope this is helpful. Cheers, Nancy Frey, Windsor, ON, Canada OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset [email protected] On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 1:13 AM <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi, > > I have been reading with interest stories about the Blizzard very interesting. May I ask if anyone can help me as to where I may locate Stanley Henry Martin Born about 1891 with parents William & Caroline or Catherine. I am researching this person for a family friend. I have been visiting the Morman church just down the road from my house but the films 4635201 and 4635218 are not available. Does this mean they have not yet been digitized. > > What else should I be doing? I have Stanley married in Australia and on the Electoral Rolls & his AIF records. His death is on our Cemetery Data Base. > > > Regards > > Liz Langford. _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hi Wayne, Your choice of subject for your post made the blood drain from my face. My first thought, after the recent demise of the Yahoo! Groups was "Oh no, not the OPCs as well". I'm OK now that I've read it. I'm in the Somerset group and have tons of material I could upload, but unlike other OPC Groups I am not allowed to do this myself and it results in the information just sitting on my hard drive waiting for me to get around to getting in touch with my co-ordinator who I haven't heard from in years. That's if she is still around. I always check for an OPC when I run into a lack of information online and just recently sent eMails to two. One has not responded and the other at least has the courtesy to eMail back to say she wasn't doing much as an OPC and would get back to me. No time frame given. There is one OPC that gets my admiration and all my contributions. His name is Mike Russell and he is the OPC for Dorchester & Fordington in Dorset. If you ever want to see what an OPC site should look like, have a look at his. Dorset has a gateway site (http://www.opcdorset.org/) to all or their OPC pages and I use them so frequently I have Dorset OPC on my search banner. Somerset OPC has one as well, but I seldom use it. Have a look at http://wsom-opc.org.uk/. You have to read through a ton of garbage before you finally get to the page where the OPCs are listed only to find the area you want isn't covered. Going on to my page for Ansford the first link I clicked on was broken. None of the material on that page is what I submitted to be uploaded and all of my data went missing years ago when they updated their website. And finally, if I Google Devon OPC I get various citations, mostly confusing and some erroneous. No direct link to a site which will redirect me to where I already know I need to go. But then I'm not a newby, and I'm not clairvoyant. In order to find an OPC for a given Devon parish you must first go to the relevant GENUKI page for that parish. So when I am searching in Devon, the only place I go is Brian Randell's magnficent GENUKI Devon project. And when Brian updates me every month on what he has added, I instantly check out anything of interest. Perhaps that answers your question of why DFHS and its members don't promote the Devon OPC Project. It is hidden in GENUKI. Maybe DFHS and/or its members don't even know its there, lol. (can't add an emoji in plain text) Cheers, Nancy Frey, Windsor, ON, Canada OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset [email protected] On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:01 PM Wayne Shepheard <[email protected]> wrote: > > In many recent email messages to Devon-L I have noticed that researchers > are not as acquainted with the OPC program as they used to be. What is also > apparent is that experienced genealogists and members of DFHS do not offer > newbies and others any information about what data OPCs might have. <snip>

Similar but more extensive information is available at http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/links.htm#Getting_Started Terry On 30/10/2019 23:05, Brian Randell wrote: > Hi Jane: > > GENUKI already has, on it’s home page, links to pages Getting Started in Genealogy, and Guidance for first Time Users. > > We’d welcome help in improving or augmenting these. > > Cheers > > Brian > >> On 30 Oct 2019, at 17:57, Jane Lucas via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I suspect that you’re all preaching to the converted. The people that need to hear this probably don’t belong to these lists. >> >> But as there is obviously an issue, what about adding some ‘tips’ to GENUKI with suggestions of simple searches new researchers could undertake/strategies they could employ to help them get started. >> >> After all, it is completely baffling at the start. I know there is lots of help out there, but it’s not like school or university where you can follow a structured hierarchical programme, often with an expert or two to hold your hand. >> >> Most of us are self taught family history researchers. I remember thinking that I was muddling through in a fog when I first started. And I still feel like that sometimes after several years! >> >> Jane >> >> >> >> >>> On 30 Oct 2019, at 17:42, joy.langdon--- via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>  >>> I think the Devon OPC database is disadvantaged because there isn't one central site people can find when googling and can see what is available immediately. >> _______________________________________________ >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > — > > School of Computing, Newcastle University, 1 Science Square, > Newcastle upon Tyne, NE4 5TG > EMAIL = [email protected] PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 > URL = http://www.ncl.ac.uk/computing/people/profile/brianrandell.html > > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community -- Chairman - Devon Family History Society Registered Charity No. 282490 Mayflower International Genealogical Conference 2020 <http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/mayflower_conference.pdf> Web site: http://www.devonfhs.org.uk <http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/> Email address: [email protected] Join from just £12 a year

Hi Jane: GENUKI already has, on it’s home page, links to pages Getting Started in Genealogy, and Guidance for first Time Users. We’d welcome help in improving or augmenting these. Cheers Brian > On 30 Oct 2019, at 17:57, Jane Lucas via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > > I suspect that you’re all preaching to the converted. The people that need to hear this probably don’t belong to these lists. > > But as there is obviously an issue, what about adding some ‘tips’ to GENUKI with suggestions of simple searches new researchers could undertake/strategies they could employ to help them get started. > > After all, it is completely baffling at the start. I know there is lots of help out there, but it’s not like school or university where you can follow a structured hierarchical programme, often with an expert or two to hold your hand. > > Most of us are self taught family history researchers. I remember thinking that I was muddling through in a fog when I first started. And I still feel like that sometimes after several years! > > Jane > > > > >> On 30 Oct 2019, at 17:42, joy.langdon--- via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>  >> I think the Devon OPC database is disadvantaged because there isn't one central site people can find when googling and can see what is available immediately. > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community — School of Computing, Newcastle University, 1 Science Square, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE4 5TG EMAIL = [email protected] PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 URL = http://www.ncl.ac.uk/computing/people/profile/brianrandell.html

Hi Maureen, Wayne: I would of course be happy to add a copy to GENUKI/Devon. Cheers Brian > On 30 Oct 2019, at 19:08, [email protected] wrote: > > Wayne, perhaps update the article (if needed) and send to > [email protected] ? > > She is always pleased to receive articles which assist researchers. > > Of course it would also be a useful addition to Genuki Devon if Brian > agrees. > > Maureen (Devon FHS 4019) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wayne Shepheard <[email protected]> > Sent: 30 October 2019 17:24 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [DEV] Re: The Demise of the OPC? > > Adrian and others, > > You may not remember an article I wrote for the Devon Family Historian back > in 2013 in which I described what OPCs do and may have in the way of data. I > recommend you look at it again - May 2013 issue, No. 146. > Other references to the program were also given in that piece. Maybe we > should republish parts of it. > > Wayne > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community — School of Computing, Newcastle University, 1 Science Square, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE4 5TG EMAIL = [email protected] PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 URL = http://www.ncl.ac.uk/computing/people/profile/brianrandell.html

Hi Jonathan: I have no record of being asked to remove your name but have now done so. Many thanks for your past efforts. Cheers Brian > On 30 Oct 2019, at 19:58, Jonathan Frayne <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Wayne (and others) > > I was a little concerned to hear I am still the OPC for Barnstaple, apparently. I looked and yes I am! What must be very frustrating for people is that it has my name but an old email address! I think Brian was asked to remove that from GENUKI, but if not could I ask him here and now to do so. It was some time ago and I think somebody asked to be able to keep the information on the website available and I said yes. Not sure where that went to. > > To respond to the rest of your message: > > It made me feel good (and wanted) to respond to people’s requests for a while. Then I realised that being helpful could be over-used and then I thought that maybe the big websites may have rules about copying ‘their’ information to third parties-and they do! The puzzling messages noted elsewhere were a relief from the mundane, even if I had to say go and get a researcher. Maybe I was too gentle to be able to tell people to go and look something up for themselves. I recall when this discussion site was filled with just such look up requests! > > I have never received information through being an OPC that was of use to me. What has been very useful is the much maligned Ancestry from which I receive a continuing stream of very useful emails from other members . . . > > I have transcribed many documents but after doing some for the DFHS I found that I was not very accurate. I am glad you are, but I don’t comment on accuracy nowadays . . . > > BTW The PC transcript for Barnstaple St Peters has been on-line for years. It was first published by the DCRS (I think) as a very large leather bound volume which had been prepared by Chanter and/or Wainwright and covered 1537-1812. It is on-line in most of the large websites as a result and there is an original copy in Barnstaple Record Office. I doubt anyone has ever checked it for accuracy as it is enormous, beyond noting any discrepancies they may have noted. I used to be on good terms with the archivist/librarians in the record office ( I would still be but I don’t have the reasons to visit nowadays). They have not notified me of any discrepancies they have. > > Jon Frayne > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Wayne Shepheard > Sent: 30 October 2019 17:23 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [DEV] Re: The Demise of the OPC? > > Good for you for helping out over the years, Jonathan. I am sure you > helped many people, including newbies. Perhaps for some you did too > much rather than encouraging or showing them where they could do their > own research. I have come across these people as well. > > I suspect that in your own work you have also benefited from the > advice and information provided by others. Maybe it was a tradeoff. > > As for transcribing, my experience has been that most major databases > contain significant and serious errors and having my own index has > been extremely useful to my and others' research. And, as I said, not > all parish information is online. Some OPCs do know where to go to > find it though so don't dismiss our relevance too soon. > > By the way, you are still shown as the OPC for Barnstaple on the > GENUKI site. You might expect to continue to get queries. > > Wayne > > On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 11:10 AM Jonathan Frayne <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> To play devil’s advocate; I used to be an OPC and now I am not. I copied all the records I could; I spent a considerable amount of money on books; I set up a website that had most of the “other” stuff I had collected over the years. What happened was that I got a stream of requests from people asking me to do the most basic of look-ups that they could have done for themselves on FMP/Ancestry etc. I think everyone should afford at least one subscription to a major website and the DFHS plus have knowledge of GENUKI. Then most of the basic stuff can be researched for themselves. The odd request from someone ‘out of county’ for an ancestor who happened to come here, is fine by me. It was the people who I ended up thinking were asking me to do their basic research that got a bit wearisome. Nowadays an OPC does not need to transcribe most PRs (as I did), nor the GRO indexes (as I did) nor do they need to transcribe the Censuses (as I did). Even the cemetery records are on-line (well, for ‘my’ parish they are-I did some of them!). I am not sure about what an OPC can offer nowadays. I used to go and photo local places but even they are on-line nowadays. >> >> What I wonder may be more useful in this day and age is to possibly offer a mentoring scheme for “newbies” - not a nice word, if word it is. That seems to be what others seem to be hinting at. I have run several starter courses in the past in which I focused on the basics, of course, but people seemed, in some cases, still to be a little nervous and a little judicious ‘hand-holding’ – without trying to sound condescending – maybe nearer what is needed. >> >> Jon Frayne-ex OPC Barnstaple >> > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community — School of Computing, Newcastle University, 1 Science Square, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE4 5TG EMAIL = [email protected] PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 URL = http://www.ncl.ac.uk/computing/people/profile/brianrandell.html

Hi Ann, It has been a while since I visited one of the LDS Family History Centres but to my recollection if there is a film that they don't have in their library it can be ordered in for you from Salt Lake City. There is probably a charge for the service now. My suggestion would be to go to the Family Search website and read some of their tutorials on how to look things up in their catalogue. Ensure those films are what you want and then contact your local FHC and ask about ordering in. Have you searched the FS site online for the records you are looking for. I believe you can search by film number. If they haven't been indexed you will have to see the microfilm. Hope this is helpful. Cheers, Nancy Frey, Windsor, ON, Canada OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset [email protected] On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 1:13 AM <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi, > > I have been reading with interest stories about the Blizzard very interesting. May I ask if anyone can help me as to where I may locate Stanley Henry Martin Born about 1891 with parents William & Caroline or Catherine. I am researching this person for a family friend. I have been visiting the Morman church just down the road from my house but the films 4635201 and 4635218 are not available. Does this mean they have not yet been digitized. > > What else should I be doing? I have Stanley married in Australia and on the Electoral Rolls & his AIF records. His death is on our Cemetery Data Base. > > > Regards > > Liz Langford.

Before you get too irritated you might want to read the thread. The person asking for information has read all the books and articles about the blizzard. He is writing a new article and wants to see if tales of the blizzard have been passed down in Devon derived families. These would be unpublished stories. I am answering because he has made this point several times before. Caren in DC. -----Original Message----- From: Nancy Frey [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 5:37 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Re: DEV] Re: The Blizzard of 1891 Dear Listers, I've ignored this question because I cannot believe that those asking about the Bizzard of 1891 haven't thought to Google the phrase. If you do, you will find that there is available online a book entitled "Blizzard in the West - a Record and Story of the Disastrous Storm which Raged Throughout Devon and Cornwall, and West Somerset, On the Night of March 9th, 1891". The reference I quote is from Project Gutenberg. There are probably others. Before it was available online, I purchased a CD of this book from some source which I also found online through a search engine. Sorry for being so harsh but as genealogists we are researchers and asking on a list for information without using a search engine first is not the way to go. As a well-known Rootsweb Lister used to quote in every post "Remember, Google is your friend". When you ask for help on a List or in a Group, you owe it to your readers to tell them where you've already looked so that they are not duplicating your efforts. If you can't you are unlikely to get a great number of helpful responses. Cheers, Nancy Frey, Windsor, ON, Canada OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset [email protected] On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 2:57 PM Jacqueline Davidson <[email protected]> wrote: > > Is someone writing a book, or has one been written about this blizzard? I > would like to know the title and author. I can suggest a book called The > Children's Blizzard, about one in the USA. > Thank you, > Jackie in Mississippi _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Greetings and well done for the discussion about general research methods and OPCs. It doesn't matter what or which is the better method of research, what is important that all researchers, new and old know where to find those little bits of the jigsaw that go to make up our very complex family and local history. And what an exciting and frustrating journey that is. First point of call - the Devon pages of Genuki, they are a gold mine of information. Cheers Luned in Blaenavon - yes, not Devon ;-)