One theory suggested is that the difference may be down to the late arrival of Anglo Saxons to Cornwall so Anglo Saxon DNA has been mingling in Devon for longer than in Cornwall. Don't forget that the difference is very small and the Devon and Cornish DNA are more similar to each other than the Cornish DNA is to Welsh and Scottish DNA. I subscribe to several archaeological magazines and there are regular articles discussing British origins and debating the conquest v gradual assimilation theories, these days they tend to lean towards assimilation but I don't think anyone is going to stick their heads above the parapet and say they have the definitive answer. There are lots of puzzles about what was going on in the Dark Ages, it is very complex and they are discovering more all the time. With regards to the Roman influence in Devon, the recent excavations at Ipplepen have challenged assumptions and provided some exciting finds. Ipplepen is a village between Newton Abbot and Totnes and nobody expected what they found. Who knows what might come to light elsewhere to challenge our present perceptions. Here is an entry from the excavation blog. http://ipplepen.exeter.ac.uk/2017/06/where-does-ipplepen-fit-in-the-roman-empire/ ------ Original Message ------ From: "Paul Hockie via DEVON" <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Cc: "Jane Lucas" <[email protected]>; "Paul Hockie" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, 4 Nov, 2019 At 20:39 Subject: [DEV] Re: Devon and Cornwall The Cornwall and Devon difference may be down to the Celtic connection. The Celts came up through the Balkans, turned left into Switzerland (Google "La Chene") and then left again into Spain. From Spain they took to a boat, stopping off in Britany, Cornwall, Wales, Ireland, the Isle of Man and Scotland. When issues of ethnicity come up I always reference "1066 and all That" published 1930PD (pre DNA) "For some reason the Romans neglected to overrun the country with fire and the sword, though they had both of these, in fact after the conquest they did not mingle with the Britons at all, but lived a semi-detached life in villas……. The Scots (originally Irish, but by now Scotch) were at this time inhabiting Ireland, having driven the Irish (Picts) out of Scotland: while the Picts (originally Scots) were now Irish (living in brackets) and vice versa. It is essential to keep these distinctions clearly in mind (and vice versa)…. Britain was attacked by waves of Picts (and, of course, Scots) who had recently learnt how to climb the <Hadrian’s> wall, and of Angles, Saxons and Jutes who, landing at Thanet, soon overran the country with fire (and of course, the sword)…… The brutal Saxon invaders drove the Britons westward into Wales and compelled them to become Welsh…. The country was now almost entirely inhabited by Saxons and was therefore renamed England…."

The Cornwall and Devon difference may be down to the Celtic connection. The Celts came up through the Balkans, turned left into Switzerland (Google "La Chene") and then left again into Spain. From Spain they took to a boat, stopping off in Britany, Cornwall, Wales, Ireland, the Isle of Man and Scotland. When issues of ethnicity come up I always reference "1066 and all That" published 1930PD (pre DNA) "For some reason the Romans neglected to overrun the country with fire and the sword, though they had both of these, in fact after the conquest they did not mingle with the Britons at all, but lived a semi-detached life in villas……. The Scots (originally Irish, but by now Scotch) were at this time inhabiting Ireland, having driven the Irish (Picts) out of Scotland: while the Picts (originally Scots) were now Irish (living in brackets) and vice versa. It is essential to keep these distinctions clearly in mind (and vice versa)…. Britain was attacked by waves of Picts (and, of course, Scots) who had recently learnt how to climb the <Hadrian’s> wall, and of Angles, Saxons and Jutes who, landing at Thanet, soon overran the country with fire (and of course, the sword)…… The brutal Saxon invaders drove the Britons westward into Wales and compelled them to become Welsh…. The country was now almost entirely inhabited by Saxons and was therefore renamed England…." My own Devon Ancestors were forever crossing the county border with Somerset. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: Jane Lucas via DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 04 November 2019 17:14 To: [email protected] Cc: Jane Lucas Subject: [DEV] Re: Devon and Cornwall Ha! Amusing.. Bu I’m not saying there was no mixing.. just that there obviously wasn’t enough to have any effect on the distinct genetic clusters identified in the Oxford Study. Jane > On 4 Nov 2019, at 12:32, joy.langdon--- via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > > > My ancestors did! And as for the cream and jam, one of the Devon based folk duo "Show of Hands" has a Devonshire father and Cornish mother. In their between song banter he was asked how he solved the cream/jam dilemma. Answer - two scones. > > Joy > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Our Mail" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, 4 Nov, 2019 At 09:23 > Subject: [DEV] Re: BRICK WALL - BREND/DAVEY - BARNSTAPLE > Devon & Cornwall don't mix Jane. There's great rivalry. The Cornish don't even know the correct way to put clotted cream and jam on a scone! They also call grockels, emmets. I give up! > > John > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Anne if you google old maps Plymouth you'll find a number of sites such as this:- http://www.archiuk.com/cgi-bin/build_nls_historic_map.pl?search_location=,%20Plymouth,%20Devon&latitude=50.365959&longitude=-4.152629 Westwell street ran between Bedford St and Princes Square and was near the Guildhall. John On 5/11/2019 6:20 am, Anne Brooks wrote: > Wondering of someone could tell me where Westwell St. was in Plymouth. > Google maps doesn't come up with anything. Many of my maternal > ancestors lived in Plymouth. I have some of them on Westwell St. in > the 1841 census. Would love to see a map showing it. Many thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS > (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal > RootsWeb community >

I agree with Paul that you are unlikely to find anything. One of my grandmother's cousins perished with her two children when the Lusitania was sunk and they have no death certificates. They appear on newspaper reports as missing and on various websites devoted to the Lusitania. Your relative may not have committed suicide. I was contacted by a grandson of one of my grandmother's cousins and he told me that his grandfather had walked out on his wife and two children before the 1911 census and vanished from the records and he asked me to keep an eye out for any sightings. I used to google his name and place of birth occasionally just in case something turned up and one day I got a hit, same name, same date of birth, same place of birth, same occupation when Australian draft papers for WW1 went online. I am sure it is him. He remarried in Australia and I keep hoping that a descendant will DNA match so I can be certain. Joy ------ Original Message ------ From: "Danial Taylor" <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, 4 Nov, 2019 At 17:47 Subject: [DEV] Researching a person with no death certificate Hello all, Long story short: I am still researching my Great Grand-Uncle: Alfred George Rudall of Exeter. He was born in St Thomas, Exeter in 1884 and died, at my best guess in 1927. He is likely to have had PTSD from his experiences in the First World War, both from being wounded in the first day of the Battle of the Somme and from contracting Malaria whilst serving in LoC trenches in Iraq. His father, (my X2 Great Grandfather) William George Rudall issued a plea for his whereabouts on page 8 of the ‘Devon & Exeter Gazette’ Monday, August 15th 1927. It is very likely he committed suicide. Where could I find records of people missing, declared dead? If at all? Very kind regards, Danial Taylor Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ <http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/> and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ <http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/> ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref <http://bit.ly/rootswebpref> Unsubscribe [email protected]">https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY <https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY> Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 <https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog <http://rootsweb.blog> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Anne, The URL has broken up, but hopefully you can paste it together to see Westwell Street. Maureen -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Sent: 04 November 2019 19:33 To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Re: Westwell Street, Plymouth Here you are Anne, on "Side By Side" maps: https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17&lat=50.3697&lon=-4.141 1&layers=6&right=BingHyb Regards, Maureen Devon FHS 4019 -----Original Message----- From: Anne Brooks <[email protected]> Sent: 04 November 2019 19:21 To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Westwell Street, Plymouth Wondering of someone could tell me where Westwell St. was in Plymouth. Google maps doesn't come up with anything. Many of my maternal ancestors lived in Plymouth. I have some of them on Westwell St. in the 1841 census. Would love to see a map showing it. Many thanks. _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Here you are Anne, on "Side By Side" maps: https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17&lat=50.3697&lon=-4.141 1&layers=6&right=BingHyb Regards, Maureen Devon FHS 4019 -----Original Message----- From: Anne Brooks <[email protected]> Sent: 04 November 2019 19:21 To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Westwell Street, Plymouth Wondering of someone could tell me where Westwell St. was in Plymouth. Google maps doesn't come up with anything. Many of my maternal ancestors lived in Plymouth. I have some of them on Westwell St. in the 1841 census. Would love to see a map showing it. Many thanks. _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Thanks Paul, I agree with you to be honest, as much as I’d love to find concrete evidence, he is well and truly gone. I will continue to look, but as you say, chances are slim. Kind regards, Danial Sent from my iPhone > On 4 Nov 2019, at 19:24, Paul Hockie via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > > In theory you cannot be buried without registering a death which in turn requires a certificate from a Doctor. The process can be slowed down by a coroner and his inquiry into the circumstances of the death or to give more time to identify the body. If the coroner believe that the death is not suspicious and reasonable attempts have been made to identify the deceased then the coroner can allow the certificate to be issues and the body released for burial. The burial will probably be a "paupers" funeral and I am not sure name used on the Death Certificate. > The police will not investigate a missing person unless they are a child, "vulnerable" or under suspicious circumstances. In the pre-digital age and a cash based society most people did not have ID and it was not illegal to use a different name (unless fraudulently). Disappearing was not difficult. Apparently we still have 150 unidentified bodies each year. If a man decided to live on the streets there was no social services to rescue him. > If he left home and wanted to disappeared or left in a confused state, not remembering his name, the chances of finding him are slim. The Salvation Army and other charities did try and help and suicides may be reported in the local newspaper but it is needle in a haystack with a limited chance of success. > > Cheers > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Danial Taylor [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 04 November 2019 18:45 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [DEV] Re: Researching a person with no death certificate Alfred George Rudall > > I have tried all this places, I have all records, save his death certificate or anything that mentions his death. > > Thanks, > > Danial > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 4 Nov 2019, at 18:01, Edna Marlow <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Daniel, >> >> Check FMP, Census, CWGC... >> >> https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM%2FLIVES%2F3849709 >> >> Edna - Ottawa >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Danial Taylor >> Sent: Monday, November 4, 2019 12:47 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [DEV] Researching a person with no death certificate >> >> Hello all, >> >> Long story short: I am still researching my Great Grand-Uncle: Alfred George Rudall of Exeter. >> >> He was born in St Thomas, Exeter in 1884 and died, at my best guess in 1927. >> >> He is likely to have had PTSD from his experiences in the First World War, both from being wounded in the first day of the Battle of the Somme and from contracting Malaria whilst serving in LoC trenches in Iraq. >> >> His father, (my X2 Great Grandfather) William George Rudall issued a plea for his whereabouts on page 8 of the ???Devon & Exeter Gazette??? Monday, August 15th 1927. >> >> It is very likely he committed suicide. >> >> Where could I find records of people missing, declared dead? If at all? >> >> Very kind regards, >> >> Danial Taylor >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community >> _______________________________________________ >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Thank you, This doesn’t match up with the facts unfortunately. He is ‘declared’ missing (for want of a better word) by his father in 1927. He returned to Exeter after the war, perhaps as late as 1920. Kind regards, Danial Sent from my iPhone > On 4 Nov 2019, at 19:21, Deborah O'Brien via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: >

In theory you cannot be buried without registering a death which in turn requires a certificate from a Doctor. The process can be slowed down by a coroner and his inquiry into the circumstances of the death or to give more time to identify the body. If the coroner believe that the death is not suspicious and reasonable attempts have been made to identify the deceased then the coroner can allow the certificate to be issues and the body released for burial. The burial will probably be a "paupers" funeral and I am not sure name used on the Death Certificate. The police will not investigate a missing person unless they are a child, "vulnerable" or under suspicious circumstances. In the pre-digital age and a cash based society most people did not have ID and it was not illegal to use a different name (unless fraudulently). Disappearing was not difficult. Apparently we still have 150 unidentified bodies each year. If a man decided to live on the streets there was no social services to rescue him. If he left home and wanted to disappeared or left in a confused state, not remembering his name, the chances of finding him are slim. The Salvation Army and other charities did try and help and suicides may be reported in the local newspaper but it is needle in a haystack with a limited chance of success. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: Danial Taylor [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 04 November 2019 18:45 To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Re: Researching a person with no death certificate Alfred George Rudall I have tried all this places, I have all records, save his death certificate or anything that mentions his death. Thanks, Danial Sent from my iPhone > On 4 Nov 2019, at 18:01, Edna Marlow <[email protected]> wrote: > > Daniel, > > Check FMP, Census, CWGC... > > https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM%2FLIVES%2F3849709 > > Edna - Ottawa > > > -----Original Message----- From: Danial Taylor > Sent: Monday, November 4, 2019 12:47 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [DEV] Researching a person with no death certificate > > Hello all, > > Long story short: I am still researching my Great Grand-Uncle: Alfred George Rudall of Exeter. > > He was born in St Thomas, Exeter in 1884 and died, at my best guess in 1927. > > He is likely to have had PTSD from his experiences in the First World War, both from being wounded in the first day of the Battle of the Somme and from contracting Malaria whilst serving in LoC trenches in Iraq. > > His father, (my X2 Great Grandfather) William George Rudall issued a plea for his whereabouts on page 8 of the ???Devon & Exeter Gazette??? Monday, August 15th 1927. > > It is very likely he committed suicide. > > Where could I find records of people missing, declared dead? If at all? > > Very kind regards, > > Danial Taylor > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Wondering of someone could tell me where Westwell St. was in Plymouth. Google maps doesn't come up with anything. Many of my maternal ancestors lived in Plymouth. I have some of them on Westwell St. in the 1841 census. Would love to see a map showing it. Many thanks.

An Alfred RUDALL left Southampton aboard the Berengaria arriving at Ellis Island NY 17 June 1922. (per Ellis Island website). Age was stated as 26 but that could be an error. Regards, Deborah O’Brien Devon OPC Co-ordinator DFHS Member 11261 http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/OPCproject Online Parish Clerk for Meavy, Newton Ferrers, Roborough by Torrington, Sheepstor, Walkhampton http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~dob7/index.html Researching SQUANCE, LILLICRAP, SURTEES, DANKESTER & YATES -----Original Message----- From: Danial Taylor [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 04 November 2019 18:45 To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Re: Researching a person with no death certificate Alfred George Rudall I have tried all this places, I have all records, save his death certificate or anything that mentions his death. Thanks, Danial Sent from my iPhone > On 4 Nov 2019, at 18:01, Edna Marlow <[email protected]> wrote: > > Daniel, > > Check FMP, Census, CWGC... > > https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM%2FLIVES%2F3849709 > > Edna - Ottawa > > > -----Original Message----- From: Danial Taylor > Sent: Monday, November 4, 2019 12:47 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [DEV] Researching a person with no death certificate > > Hello all, > > Long story short: I am still researching my Great Grand-Uncle: Alfred George Rudall of Exeter. > > He was born in St Thomas, Exeter in 1884 and died, at my best guess in 1927. > > He is likely to have had PTSD from his experiences in the First World War, both from being wounded in the first day of the Battle of the Somme and from contracting Malaria whilst serving in LoC trenches in Iraq. > > His father, (my X2 Great Grandfather) William George Rudall issued a plea for his whereabouts on page 8 of the ???Devon & Exeter Gazette??? Monday, August 15th 1927. > > It is very likely he committed suicide. > > Where could I find records of people missing, declared dead? If at all? > > Very kind regards, > > Danial Taylor > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Cannot see any mention there either...(could be missing something obvious). I’ve been trying to locate evidence of his fate for about 6 years now. Thank you for your help. Kind regards, Danial Sent from my iPhone > On 4 Nov 2019, at 18:31, Jane Lucas via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > > Have you checked unexplained/suspicious deaths on GENUKI? > Jane > >> On 4 Nov 2019, at 18:00, Edna Marlow <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Daniel, >> >> Check FMP, Census, CWGC... >> >> https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM%2FLIVES%2F3849709 >> >> Edna - Ottawa >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Danial Taylor >> Sent: Monday, November 4, 2019 12:47 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [DEV] Researching a person with no death certificate >> >> Hello all, >> >> Long story short: I am still researching my Great Grand-Uncle: Alfred George Rudall of Exeter. >> >> He was born in St Thomas, Exeter in 1884 and died, at my best guess in 1927. >> >> He is likely to have had PTSD from his experiences in the First World War, both from being wounded in the first day of the Battle of the Somme and from contracting Malaria whilst serving in LoC trenches in Iraq. >> >> His father, (my X2 Great Grandfather) William George Rudall issued a plea for his whereabouts on page 8 of the ???Devon & Exeter Gazette??? Monday, August 15th 1927. >> >> It is very likely he committed suicide. >> >> Where could I find records of people missing, declared dead? If at all? >> >> Very kind regards, >> >> Danial Taylor > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I have tried all this places, I have all records, save his death certificate or anything that mentions his death. Thanks, Danial Sent from my iPhone > On 4 Nov 2019, at 18:01, Edna Marlow <[email protected]> wrote: > > Daniel, > > Check FMP, Census, CWGC... > > https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM%2FLIVES%2F3849709 > > Edna - Ottawa > > > -----Original Message----- From: Danial Taylor > Sent: Monday, November 4, 2019 12:47 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [DEV] Researching a person with no death certificate > > Hello all, > > Long story short: I am still researching my Great Grand-Uncle: Alfred George Rudall of Exeter. > > He was born in St Thomas, Exeter in 1884 and died, at my best guess in 1927. > > He is likely to have had PTSD from his experiences in the First World War, both from being wounded in the first day of the Battle of the Somme and from contracting Malaria whilst serving in LoC trenches in Iraq. > > His father, (my X2 Great Grandfather) William George Rudall issued a plea for his whereabouts on page 8 of the ???Devon & Exeter Gazette??? Monday, August 15th 1927. > > It is very likely he committed suicide. > > Where could I find records of people missing, declared dead? If at all? > > Very kind regards, > > Danial Taylor > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Have you checked unexplained/suspicious deaths on GENUKI? Jane > On 4 Nov 2019, at 18:00, Edna Marlow <[email protected]> wrote: > > Daniel, > > Check FMP, Census, CWGC... > > https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM%2FLIVES%2F3849709 > > Edna - Ottawa > > > -----Original Message----- From: Danial Taylor > Sent: Monday, November 4, 2019 12:47 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [DEV] Researching a person with no death certificate > > Hello all, > > Long story short: I am still researching my Great Grand-Uncle: Alfred George Rudall of Exeter. > > He was born in St Thomas, Exeter in 1884 and died, at my best guess in 1927. > > He is likely to have had PTSD from his experiences in the First World War, both from being wounded in the first day of the Battle of the Somme and from contracting Malaria whilst serving in LoC trenches in Iraq. > > His father, (my X2 Great Grandfather) William George Rudall issued a plea for his whereabouts on page 8 of the ???Devon & Exeter Gazette??? Monday, August 15th 1927. > > It is very likely he committed suicide. > > Where could I find records of people missing, declared dead? If at all? > > Very kind regards, > > Danial Taylor

Daniel, Check FMP, Census, CWGC... https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM%2FLIVES%2F3849709 Edna - Ottawa -----Original Message----- From: Danial Taylor Sent: Monday, November 4, 2019 12:47 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Researching a person with no death certificate Hello all, Long story short: I am still researching my Great Grand-Uncle: Alfred George Rudall of Exeter. He was born in St Thomas, Exeter in 1884 and died, at my best guess in 1927. He is likely to have had PTSD from his experiences in the First World War, both from being wounded in the first day of the Battle of the Somme and from contracting Malaria whilst serving in LoC trenches in Iraq. His father, (my X2 Great Grandfather) William George Rudall issued a plea for his whereabouts on page 8 of the ???Devon & Exeter Gazette??? Monday, August 15th 1927. It is very likely he committed suicide. Where could I find records of people missing, declared dead? If at all? Very kind regards, Danial Taylor Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hello all, Long story short: I am still researching my Great Grand-Uncle: Alfred George Rudall of Exeter. He was born in St Thomas, Exeter in 1884 and died, at my best guess in 1927. He is likely to have had PTSD from his experiences in the First World War, both from being wounded in the first day of the Battle of the Somme and from contracting Malaria whilst serving in LoC trenches in Iraq. His father, (my X2 Great Grandfather) William George Rudall issued a plea for his whereabouts on page 8 of the ‘Devon & Exeter Gazette’ Monday, August 15th 1927. It is very likely he committed suicide. Where could I find records of people missing, declared dead? If at all? Very kind regards, Danial Taylor Sent from my iPhone

Paul Hockie hit the nail on the head when he reminded us that the Black Death reduced the population to about 2m. I would think that does indeed make us all related to that relatively small group of people. Jane > On 4 Nov 2019, at 13:34, joy.langdon--- via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi Elizabeth, > > If your DNA check was with Ancestry have you checked the DNA ethnicity estimate results recently? I go and look every so often because mine keep changing, the last time was a few weeks ago. I started out with 33% Scandinavian and some Iberian Peninsula which vanished and was replaced by 3% French. The latest change has increased my Scottish/Irish DNA by a small amount and the 3% French is now 3% Germanic Europe. Can't wait to see what happens next! They have correctly identified that the two predominant areas of English DNA are from Devon and Cornwall and the northwest (my mother's paternal ancestry is from Cheshire/Lancashire). Well, that fits with what is in my paper trail but who knows what the next update will bring! > > Of course, we are all related if we go back far enough. > > Joy > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Elizabeth Howard via DEVON" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Cc: "Elizabeth Howard" <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, 4 Nov, 2019 At 02:20 > Subject: [DEV] Re: BRICK WALL - BREND/DAVEY - BARNSTAPLE > Is it hard to believe ? The Normans were quite small in number , I understand , and invading a saxon country Just us poor old Saxons weren’t quite so bright or well organised. !! My DNA says 45 pc English 32 pc Scandinavian and the rest a sort of mix of Balkan , Iberian etc My genes have come from no further north than St Albans nor south west than Devon. Which pretty much underlines my own genealogical findings. > As to clusters I have recently met a young woman here in the east of England whose name is that of a tiny Lincolnshire village not 50 miles from here . And we have other place name families here also originating in Lincs so the busy east coast trading ports might well have been the anchors to keep these families close to home > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Ha! Amusing.. Bu I’m not saying there was no mixing.. just that there obviously wasn’t enough to have any effect on the distinct genetic clusters identified in the Oxford Study. Jane > On 4 Nov 2019, at 12:32, joy.langdon--- via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > > > My ancestors did! And as for the cream and jam, one of the Devon based folk duo "Show of Hands" has a Devonshire father and Cornish mother. In their between song banter he was asked how he solved the cream/jam dilemma. Answer - two scones. > > Joy > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Our Mail" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, 4 Nov, 2019 At 09:23 > Subject: [DEV] Re: BRICK WALL - BREND/DAVEY - BARNSTAPLE > Devon & Cornwall don't mix Jane. There's great rivalry. The Cornish don't even know the correct way to put clotted cream and jam on a scone! They also call grockels, emmets. I give up! > > John > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hi Elizabeth, If your DNA check was with Ancestry have you checked the DNA ethnicity estimate results recently? I go and look every so often because mine keep changing, the last time was a few weeks ago. I started out with 33% Scandinavian and some Iberian Peninsula which vanished and was replaced by 3% French. The latest change has increased my Scottish/Irish DNA by a small amount and the 3% French is now 3% Germanic Europe. Can't wait to see what happens next! They have correctly identified that the two predominant areas of English DNA are from Devon and Cornwall and the northwest (my mother's paternal ancestry is from Cheshire/Lancashire). Well, that fits with what is in my paper trail but who knows what the next update will bring! Of course, we are all related if we go back far enough. Joy ------ Original Message ------ From: "Elizabeth Howard via DEVON" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: "Elizabeth Howard" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, 4 Nov, 2019 At 02:20 Subject: [DEV] Re: BRICK WALL - BREND/DAVEY - BARNSTAPLE Is it hard to believe ? The Normans were quite small in number , I understand , and invading a saxon country Just us poor old Saxons weren’t quite so bright or well organised. !! My DNA says 45 pc English 32 pc Scandinavian and the rest a sort of mix of Balkan , Iberian etc My genes have come from no further north than St Albans nor south west than Devon. Which pretty much underlines my own genealogical findings. As to clusters I have recently met a young woman here in the east of England whose name is that of a tiny Lincolnshire village not 50 miles from here . And we have other place name families here also originating in Lincs so the busy east coast trading ports might well have been the anchors to keep these families close to home Sent from my iPhone

My ancestors did! And as for the cream and jam, one of the Devon based folk duo "Show of Hands" has a Devonshire father and Cornish mother. In their between song banter he was asked how he solved the cream/jam dilemma. Answer - two scones. Joy ------ Original Message ------ From: "Our Mail" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, 4 Nov, 2019 At 09:23 Subject: [DEV] Re: BRICK WALL - BREND/DAVEY - BARNSTAPLE Devon & Cornwall don't mix Jane. There's great rivalry. The Cornish don't even know the correct way to put clotted cream and jam on a scone! They also call grockels, emmets. I give up! John