This commentary somewhat tracks one of my reasons for the DNA test. I have enjoyed seeing profiles of distant cousins (I do come from a huge family, and was raised away from most of them) but I also try to help people who say they are looking for family after adoption, or simply being like me - raised far away from biological family. Thanks for this good comment. Caren -----Original Message----- From: Liz Youle via DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2019 2:00 PM To: [email protected] Cc: Liz Youle Subject: [DEV] Re: British Isles and Devon and Cornwall DNA Although I have a lot of Devon and Cornwall people on my tree, none of them are my direct ancestors, most belong to my granddaughter. Why did I do a DNA test? I certainly didn't expect to find anyone with my maiden name of Youle as we are an extremely small family. My grandfather had only 4 children - 2 girls and 2 boys. None of the children had boys so the line died out. My great grandfather only had 2 girls and the one boy (my grandfather). My great great grandfather had only one child. My reason for taking a DNA was to help people with illegitimacy and/or adoption. These people need our help as their reason for taking a DNA test is to find out their roots if possible. This is real detective work and I've really enjoyed helping people solve their roots. My problem is all those people who take a DNA test but do not put any tree and/or do not respond to emails. I feel there should be somewhere on these sites where we can comment that the person does not respond to emails. They are wasting their money and my time. My mother's final cousin (of 42 descendants of one man and his wife) has had his DNA done and I've put it on Ged-match with my email address but I've never had a response and I know there are people connected to him. I always reply. It has been an absolute pleasure to have helped several people and I will continue to help as long as I can. Liz On 06/11/2019 18:18, Nancy Frey wrote: > Hi Jane, > > Before doing anything more about DNA testing I think you need to > define what you want to find out who you need to test and where is the > best place to test for that. One of my colleagues blogs on the > subject. Her name is Roberta Estes and her blog is DNAeXplained at > https://dna-explained.com/. She writes for the layman. Reading some > of her articles will give you a better idea of where, what and who to > test. Family Tree DNA is, I believe the only lab who do Y-DNA > testing. The most popular test today is Autosomal. There are other > types of tests. I did an MtDNA (Mitochondrial DNA) which traces the > DNA passed from mother to daughter. > > As an example, under Bobbi's guidance I was able to set up a DAVIDGE > DNA group at Family Tree DNA. Our goal was to define a Y-DNA > signature for the surname, if possible. We ended up with several men > testing and the results showed a couple of distinctly different > Haplogroups. Doing the genealogy we discovered that in each case the > man whose Haplogroup did not match the majority had descended from an > NPE (non-paternal event) being in their case, not adoption, but > illegitimacy. At one time a male was registered with his mother's > surname and while that branch carries the DAVIDGE surname it carries > no DAVIDGE Y-DNA. This testing leads me to believe that two brick > wall DAVIDGE men, one in Newfoundland and another in the US are indeed > descended from a DAVIDGE. > > Cheers, > > Nancy Frey, > Windsor, ON, Canada > OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset; > [email protected] > > On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 12:02 PM Jane Lucas via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: >> I just wanted to say hank you to everyone who contributed to this discussion under the Devon and Cornwall thread. I renamed it. When I tried to send this earlier it didn’t appear. >> >> It is fascinating and some really useful arguments. As Joy (Langdon) says though, no one is going to stick their neck out and say that we have all the answers. Thanks Joy for the reminder about the Ipplepen finds. I remember reading about it recently and meant to follow it up. I have direct ancestors from there so any additional information is always interesting. The work done in recent years at Hadrien’s wall also raises questions about earlier assumptions. >> >> Paul (Hockie), thanks for clarifying Ancestry DNA techniques. It makes me wonder if it’s worth doing a DNA test.. even if I can persuade my brothers! >> >> I do think the study I referred to in the original post has given us some answers and more clarity. We now have a 'fine scale genetic map' of the British Isles, thanks to researchers at the University of Oxford. The Study was published in Nature in 2015. I only found it earlier this year though. This is the link to the background. I can’t comment on the DNA techniques used as I don’t know enough about it. But I’m sure some of you do. >> >> >> http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2015-03-19-who-do-you-think-you-really-are-genetic-map-british-isles <http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2015-03-19-who-do-you-think-you-really-are-genetic-map-british-isles> >> >> >> The bit that is most interesting, to me at any rate, is the DNA clusters and geographic groupings. >> >> "There are separate genetic groups in Cornwall and Devon, with a division almost exactly along the modern county boundary.” That is completely fascinating! >> >> Professor Mark Robinson, an archaeologist on the project from the Oxford University Museum of Natural History, said 'The results give an answer to the question we had never previously thought we would be able to ask about the degree of British survival after the collapse of Roman Britain and the coming of the Saxons.' >> >> Regards >> Jane > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Although I have a lot of Devon and Cornwall people on my tree, none of them are my direct ancestors, most belong to my granddaughter. Why did I do a DNA test?  I certainly didn't expect to find anyone with my maiden name of Youle as we are an extremely small family. My grandfather had only 4 children - 2 girls and 2 boys. None of the children had boys so the line died out. My great grandfather only had 2 girls and the one boy (my grandfather). My great great grandfather had only one child. My reason for taking a DNA was to help people with illegitimacy and/or adoption.  These people need our help as their reason for taking a DNA test is to find out their roots if possible.  This is real detective work and I've really enjoyed helping people solve their roots.  My problem is all those people who take a DNA test but do not put any tree and/or do not respond to emails.  I feel there should be somewhere on these sites where we can comment that the person does not respond to emails. They are wasting their money and my time. My mother's final cousin (of 42 descendants of one man and his wife) has had his DNA done and I've put it on Ged-match with my email address but I've never had a response and I know there are people connected to him.  I always reply. It has been an absolute pleasure to have helped several people and I will continue to help as long as I can. Liz On 06/11/2019 18:18, Nancy Frey wrote: > Hi Jane, > > Before doing anything more about DNA testing I think you need to > define what you want to find out who you need to test and where is the > best place to test for that. One of my colleagues blogs on the > subject. Her name is Roberta Estes and her blog is DNAeXplained at > https://dna-explained.com/. She writes for the layman. Reading some > of her articles will give you a better idea of where, what and who to > test. Family Tree DNA is, I believe the only lab who do Y-DNA > testing. The most popular test today is Autosomal. There are other > types of tests. I did an MtDNA (Mitochondrial DNA) which traces the > DNA passed from mother to daughter. > > As an example, under Bobbi's guidance I was able to set up a DAVIDGE > DNA group at Family Tree DNA. Our goal was to define a Y-DNA > signature for the surname, if possible. We ended up with several men > testing and the results showed a couple of distinctly different > Haplogroups. Doing the genealogy we discovered that in each case the > man whose Haplogroup did not match the majority had descended from an > NPE (non-paternal event) being in their case, not adoption, but > illegitimacy. At one time a male was registered with his mother's > surname and while that branch carries the DAVIDGE surname it carries > no DAVIDGE Y-DNA. This testing leads me to believe that two brick > wall DAVIDGE men, one in Newfoundland and another in the US are indeed > descended from a DAVIDGE. > > Cheers, > > Nancy Frey, > Windsor, ON, Canada > OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset; > [email protected] > > On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 12:02 PM Jane Lucas via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: >> I just wanted to say hank you to everyone who contributed to this discussion under the Devon and Cornwall thread. I renamed it. When I tried to send this earlier it didn’t appear. >> >> It is fascinating and some really useful arguments. As Joy (Langdon) says though, no one is going to stick their neck out and say that we have all the answers. Thanks Joy for the reminder about the Ipplepen finds. I remember reading about it recently and meant to follow it up. I have direct ancestors from there so any additional information is always interesting. The work done in recent years at Hadrien’s wall also raises questions about earlier assumptions. >> >> Paul (Hockie), thanks for clarifying Ancestry DNA techniques. It makes me wonder if it’s worth doing a DNA test.. even if I can persuade my brothers! >> >> I do think the study I referred to in the original post has given us some answers and more clarity. We now have a 'fine scale genetic map' of the British Isles, thanks to researchers at the University of Oxford. The Study was published in Nature in 2015. I only found it earlier this year though. This is the link to the background. I can’t comment on the DNA techniques used as I don’t know enough about it. But I’m sure some of you do. >> >> >> http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2015-03-19-who-do-you-think-you-really-are-genetic-map-british-isles <http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2015-03-19-who-do-you-think-you-really-are-genetic-map-british-isles> >> >> >> The bit that is most interesting, to me at any rate, is the DNA clusters and geographic groupings. >> >> "There are separate genetic groups in Cornwall and Devon, with a division almost exactly along the modern county boundary.” That is completely fascinating! >> >> Professor Mark Robinson, an archaeologist on the project from the Oxford University Museum of Natural History, said 'The results give an answer to the question we had never previously thought we would be able to ask about the degree of British survival after the collapse of Roman Britain and the coming of the Saxons.' >> >> Regards >> Jane > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hi Jane, Before doing anything more about DNA testing I think you need to define what you want to find out who you need to test and where is the best place to test for that. One of my colleagues blogs on the subject. Her name is Roberta Estes and her blog is DNAeXplained at https://dna-explained.com/. She writes for the layman. Reading some of her articles will give you a better idea of where, what and who to test. Family Tree DNA is, I believe the only lab who do Y-DNA testing. The most popular test today is Autosomal. There are other types of tests. I did an MtDNA (Mitochondrial DNA) which traces the DNA passed from mother to daughter. As an example, under Bobbi's guidance I was able to set up a DAVIDGE DNA group at Family Tree DNA. Our goal was to define a Y-DNA signature for the surname, if possible. We ended up with several men testing and the results showed a couple of distinctly different Haplogroups. Doing the genealogy we discovered that in each case the man whose Haplogroup did not match the majority had descended from an NPE (non-paternal event) being in their case, not adoption, but illegitimacy. At one time a male was registered with his mother's surname and while that branch carries the DAVIDGE surname it carries no DAVIDGE Y-DNA. This testing leads me to believe that two brick wall DAVIDGE men, one in Newfoundland and another in the US are indeed descended from a DAVIDGE. Cheers, Nancy Frey, Windsor, ON, Canada OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset; [email protected] On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 12:02 PM Jane Lucas via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > > I just wanted to say hank you to everyone who contributed to this discussion under the Devon and Cornwall thread. I renamed it. When I tried to send this earlier it didn’t appear. > > It is fascinating and some really useful arguments. As Joy (Langdon) says though, no one is going to stick their neck out and say that we have all the answers. Thanks Joy for the reminder about the Ipplepen finds. I remember reading about it recently and meant to follow it up. I have direct ancestors from there so any additional information is always interesting. The work done in recent years at Hadrien’s wall also raises questions about earlier assumptions. > > Paul (Hockie), thanks for clarifying Ancestry DNA techniques. It makes me wonder if it’s worth doing a DNA test.. even if I can persuade my brothers! > > I do think the study I referred to in the original post has given us some answers and more clarity. We now have a 'fine scale genetic map' of the British Isles, thanks to researchers at the University of Oxford. The Study was published in Nature in 2015. I only found it earlier this year though. This is the link to the background. I can’t comment on the DNA techniques used as I don’t know enough about it. But I’m sure some of you do. > > > http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2015-03-19-who-do-you-think-you-really-are-genetic-map-british-isles <http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2015-03-19-who-do-you-think-you-really-are-genetic-map-british-isles> > > > The bit that is most interesting, to me at any rate, is the DNA clusters and geographic groupings. > > "There are separate genetic groups in Cornwall and Devon, with a division almost exactly along the modern county boundary.” That is completely fascinating! > > Professor Mark Robinson, an archaeologist on the project from the Oxford University Museum of Natural History, said 'The results give an answer to the question we had never previously thought we would be able to ask about the degree of British survival after the collapse of Roman Britain and the coming of the Saxons.' > > Regards > Jane

Hi Liz.. yes, it is interesting. I didn’t know about it at the time, otherwise I would have volunteered, although I may not have qualified. Despite centuries of direct ancestors in Devon, they moved away c1870s, so I’ve been ‘diluted’. If you click on the link to the People of the British Isles Study, that takes you to the map and another link leads to more information about the results. Or google the Nature article. It was 2015. I did find it some time ago but don’t think I kept it. There are several more populist reports too in the National Newspapers. Jane > On 6 Nov 2019, at 17:19, Liz Youle via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > > That is extremely interesting Jane. When I was living in West Cornwall and holding a regular research group, I was contacted by the Oxford researchers requesting people with at least 5 generations of 100% Cornish ancestry to see if they were prepared to participate and one of my group agreed, we knew she was Cornish through and through. The participants weren't given the results but she still thought it would be useful. She had to give a blood sample. I've tried to log into the site you mention but it says, "Sorry, you are not authorised to access this page". > > Liz > > On 06/11/2019 17:00, Jane Lucas via DEVON wrote: >> I just wanted to say hank you to everyone who contributed to this discussion under the Devon and Cornwall thread. I renamed it. When I tried to send this earlier it didn’t appear. >> >> It is fascinating and some really useful arguments. As Joy (Langdon) says though, no one is going to stick their neck out and say that we have all the answers. Thanks Joy for the reminder about the Ipplepen finds. I remember reading about it recently and meant to follow it up. I have direct ancestors from there so any additional information is always interesting. The work done in recent years at Hadrien’s wall also raises questions about earlier assumptions. >> >> Paul (Hockie), thanks for clarifying Ancestry DNA techniques. It makes me wonder if it’s worth doing a DNA test.. even if I can persuade my brothers! >> >> I do think the study I referred to in the original post has given us some answers and more clarity. We now have a 'fine scale genetic map' of the British Isles, thanks to researchers at the University of Oxford. The Study was published in Nature in 2015. I only found it earlier this year though. This is the link to the background. I can’t comment on the DNA techniques used as I don’t know enough about it. But I’m sure some of you do. >> >> >> http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2015-03-19-who-do-you-think-you-really-are-genetic-map-british-isles <http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2015-03-19-who-do-you-think-you-really-are-genetic-map-british-isles> >> >> >> The bit that is most interesting, to me at any rate, is the DNA clusters and geographic groupings. >> >> "There are separate genetic groups in Cornwall and Devon, with a division almost exactly along the modern county boundary.” That is completely fascinating! >> >> Professor Mark Robinson, an archaeologist on the project from the Oxford University Museum of Natural History, said 'The results give an answer to the question we had never previously thought we would be able to ask about the degree of British survival after the collapse of Roman Britain and the coming of the Saxons.' >> >> Regards >> Jane >> >> _______________________________________________

That is extremely interesting Jane. When I was living in West Cornwall and holding a regular research group, I was contacted by the Oxford researchers requesting people with at least 5 generations of 100% Cornish ancestry to see if they were prepared to participate and one of my group agreed, we knew she was Cornish through and through.  The participants weren't given the results but she still thought it would be useful.  She had to give a blood sample.  I've tried to log into the site you mention but it says, "Sorry, you are not authorised to access this page". Liz On 06/11/2019 17:00, Jane Lucas via DEVON wrote: > I just wanted to say hank you to everyone who contributed to this discussion under the Devon and Cornwall thread. I renamed it. When I tried to send this earlier it didn’t appear. > > It is fascinating and some really useful arguments. As Joy (Langdon) says though, no one is going to stick their neck out and say that we have all the answers. Thanks Joy for the reminder about the Ipplepen finds. I remember reading about it recently and meant to follow it up. I have direct ancestors from there so any additional information is always interesting. The work done in recent years at Hadrien’s wall also raises questions about earlier assumptions. > > Paul (Hockie), thanks for clarifying Ancestry DNA techniques. It makes me wonder if it’s worth doing a DNA test.. even if I can persuade my brothers! > > I do think the study I referred to in the original post has given us some answers and more clarity. We now have a 'fine scale genetic map' of the British Isles, thanks to researchers at the University of Oxford. The Study was published in Nature in 2015. I only found it earlier this year though. This is the link to the background. I can’t comment on the DNA techniques used as I don’t know enough about it. But I’m sure some of you do. > > > http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2015-03-19-who-do-you-think-you-really-are-genetic-map-british-isles <http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2015-03-19-who-do-you-think-you-really-are-genetic-map-british-isles> > > > The bit that is most interesting, to me at any rate, is the DNA clusters and geographic groupings. > > "There are separate genetic groups in Cornwall and Devon, with a division almost exactly along the modern county boundary.” That is completely fascinating! > > Professor Mark Robinson, an archaeologist on the project from the Oxford University Museum of Natural History, said 'The results give an answer to the question we had never previously thought we would be able to ask about the degree of British survival after the collapse of Roman Britain and the coming of the Saxons.' > > Regards > Jane > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I just wanted to say hank you to everyone who contributed to this discussion under the Devon and Cornwall thread. I renamed it. When I tried to send this earlier it didn’t appear. It is fascinating and some really useful arguments. As Joy (Langdon) says though, no one is going to stick their neck out and say that we have all the answers. Thanks Joy for the reminder about the Ipplepen finds. I remember reading about it recently and meant to follow it up. I have direct ancestors from there so any additional information is always interesting. The work done in recent years at Hadrien’s wall also raises questions about earlier assumptions. Paul (Hockie), thanks for clarifying Ancestry DNA techniques. It makes me wonder if it’s worth doing a DNA test.. even if I can persuade my brothers! I do think the study I referred to in the original post has given us some answers and more clarity. We now have a 'fine scale genetic map' of the British Isles, thanks to researchers at the University of Oxford. The Study was published in Nature in 2015. I only found it earlier this year though. This is the link to the background. I can’t comment on the DNA techniques used as I don’t know enough about it. But I’m sure some of you do. http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2015-03-19-who-do-you-think-you-really-are-genetic-map-british-isles <http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2015-03-19-who-do-you-think-you-really-are-genetic-map-british-isles> The bit that is most interesting, to me at any rate, is the DNA clusters and geographic groupings. "There are separate genetic groups in Cornwall and Devon, with a division almost exactly along the modern county boundary.” That is completely fascinating! Professor Mark Robinson, an archaeologist on the project from the Oxford University Museum of Natural History, said 'The results give an answer to the question we had never previously thought we would be able to ask about the degree of British survival after the collapse of Roman Britain and the coming of the Saxons.' Regards Jane

My Family Tree DNA found with Kit # ---- (Genetics) 100% European profiling: Scandinavia 43%, Western and Central Europe 34%, British Isles 23%. Have one side of the family going back 30 generations, and the other families back to 1700s, as far as I can see, not too clearly, all English (that diversified group). My Worths go to Conqueror's time and a connection to Falaise, Normandy. Some went up to York area (Vikings were there at one time). Then my other families were in Devon, Dorset, Hampshire. So any Scandinavians would be quite a few centuries back... I had blonde air, now gray, and hazel eyes. Edna - sunny Ottawa

Hi Paul, I haven't personally done too much research on the Normans, but we have to remember that when they arrived in England they had been in the area known as Normandy in France for only a number of generations. As my friend who was born in Normandy continues to remind me, they were Northman (ie Vikings) by heritage. My RODGMAN (formerly ROGERMAN) family appear in north Devon very early on (1500s) and speculation is that the first to acquire a surname was a man in the service of a man named Roger. Did his ancestors come with the Normans or were they already there when William and his crowd arrived? I suspect the latter as many of them are fair haired, fair skinned people. Cheers, Nancy Frey, Windsor, ON, Canada OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset [email protected] On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 1:58 PM Paul Hockie via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > > I suspect the Normans also mostly kept themselves to themselves like the Romans only in castles rather than villas. > > Cheers > > Paul

Hi Paul, I agree with much that you say. My point was that the soldier who was 'withdrawn' was several generations removed from the one who had arrived 400 years ago. Whatever country his ancestors came from was totally foreign to him. I am sure that far more than we realized stayed in what would become the United Kingdom. Cheers., Nancy Frey, Windsor, ON, Canada OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset [email protected] On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 1:50 PM Paul Hockie via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > > The problem is that Roman soldiers were not Roman apart from the senior commanders. The number of Romans was too small to occupy the empire so the policy was to recruit soldiers throughout the empire but not to station them in their "home" country. They reasoned, quite sensibly, that arming the locals was a recipe for revolt so they used troops, regular and auxiliaries, who had no interest in local events. Until the army reforms of the 1870s the British Army operated a similar policy to policing the UK, especially Ireland. It may be true that your family are descended from a legionnaire but he could well be from anywhere from North Africa to North Europe. Legions were also moved around the empire at regular intervals, again, like the British Army and were forbidden to marry although "comforts" were provided. While some may have stayed behind with a local girl, the rest marched to their next posting. From memory, the reason the Romans withdrew around 400AD was that the legions had been withdrawn to Gaul to fight the revolting Goths, Visigoths etc. (Who eventually sacked Rome itself). > > Cheers

I suspect the Normans also mostly kept themselves to themselves like the Romans only in castles rather than villas. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: Margaret Mansfield [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 05 November 2019 02:49 To: Jane Lucas via DEVON Subject: [DEV] Re: Brits genes Did the Normans not make an impact because they were related? Did they have more impact in Scotland? We know the Romans kept to themselves and mostly went home. However, our Cornish mining Nankivells moved to Devon when their mines expanded. Possible not enough to make a difference, some married locals and many immigrated so their descendants were not part of the study. Marg. _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

The problem is that Roman soldiers were not Roman apart from the senior commanders. The number of Romans was too small to occupy the empire so the policy was to recruit soldiers throughout the empire but not to station them in their "home" country. They reasoned, quite sensibly, that arming the locals was a recipe for revolt so they used troops, regular and auxiliaries, who had no interest in local events. Until the army reforms of the 1870s the British Army operated a similar policy to policing the UK, especially Ireland. It may be true that your family are descended from a legionnaire but he could well be from anywhere from North Africa to North Europe. Legions were also moved around the empire at regular intervals, again, like the British Army and were forbidden to marry although "comforts" were provided. While some may have stayed behind with a local girl, the rest marched to their next posting. From memory, the reason the Romans withdrew around 400AD was that the legions had been withdrawn to Gaul to fight the revolting Goths, Visigoths etc. (Who eventually sacked Rome itself). Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: Nancy Frey [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 05 November 2019 17:37 To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Re: Brits genes Hi folks, There's one statement here that I feel may not be entirely correct. Marg says "We know the Romans kept to themselves and mostly went home" I've done a lot of research on whether this is true or not. The history of the Romans in Britain is lengthy and well documented and I have not yet exhausted all the material available. It was of interest to me as my maiden name of DAVIDGE is not, as some would suggest, derived from the given name David. Early on it was DAVIG or DAVEG and morphed through a multitude of spellings, My father always maintained he was descended from a Roman legionnaire and the DAVIDGE Y-DNA project shows a high content from parts of Europe. Earliest records of this surname that I can find are in Dorset around the area of Dorchester where we know there were major Roman encampments. Romans armies landed in Sussex 55, 54 and 53 BC just to mention a few landings, but only the troops who landed in 43 AD stayed. Roman troops were withdrawn from Britain 410 AD. It is unlikely that every Roman soldier who spent 20 generations in Britain remained unmarried They would have married local women, had families and I doubt that in 410 AD very many of them went back to wherever they came from. The Roman army came from areas all over the Roman Empire, not just Italy. Has anyone else done any research that would confirm or refute my thinking on this? If so, I'd like to hear from you as this is not really a topic for discussion on the Devon List. Cheers, Nancy Frey, Windsor, ON, CanadaVPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset [email protected] On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 9:50 PM Margaret Mansfield <[email protected]> wrote: > > Did the Normans not make an impact because they were related? Did they > have more impact in Scotland? > > We know the Romans kept to themselves and mostly went home. > > However, our Cornish mining Nankivells moved to Devon when their mines > expanded. Possible not enough to make a difference, some married locals > and many immigrated so their descendants were not part of the study. > > Marg. _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Bill Per FMP, William Brend, father John, mother Elizabeth, born 16 April 1851, baptised Bideford Methodist Circuit 10 November 1851. Guy Lawton On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 16:52, Bill Hancock via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > I was wondering if anyone could help me? > I have the wedding certificate for my Great Grandparents William Brend and > Sarah Davey in Barnstaple on 27 July 1878, they were both 28 years old. He > lived in Holland Street and she lived in Dear Street, Barnstaple at time of > their marriage > > I have both their fathers John Brend a labourer and William Davey a Tea > Hawker. > > I can't find anything on both families prior to 1878. > > Can anyone help or steer me in the right direction. > TIA. > Bill Hancock > > > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS ( > http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Hi folks, There's one statement here that I feel may not be entirely correct. Marg says "We know the Romans kept to themselves and mostly went home" I've done a lot of research on whether this is true or not. The history of the Romans in Britain is lengthy and well documented and I have not yet exhausted all the material available. It was of interest to me as my maiden name of DAVIDGE is not, as some would suggest, derived from the given name David. Early on it was DAVIG or DAVEG and morphed through a multitude of spellings, My father always maintained he was descended from a Roman legionnaire and the DAVIDGE Y-DNA project shows a high content from parts of Europe. Earliest records of this surname that I can find are in Dorset around the area of Dorchester where we know there were major Roman encampments. Romans armies landed in Sussex 55, 54 and 53 BC just to mention a few landings, but only the troops who landed in 43 AD stayed. Roman troops were withdrawn from Britain 410 AD. It is unlikely that every Roman soldier who spent 20 generations in Britain remained unmarried They would have married local women, had families and I doubt that in 410 AD very many of them went back to wherever they came from. The Roman army came from areas all over the Roman Empire, not just Italy. Has anyone else done any research that would confirm or refute my thinking on this? If so, I'd like to hear from you as this is not really a topic for discussion on the Devon List. Cheers, Nancy Frey, Windsor, ON, CanadaVPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset [email protected] On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 9:50 PM Margaret Mansfield <[email protected]> wrote: > > Did the Normans not make an impact because they were related? Did they > have more impact in Scotland? > > We know the Romans kept to themselves and mostly went home. > > However, our Cornish mining Nankivells moved to Devon when their mines > expanded. Possible not enough to make a difference, some married locals > and many immigrated so their descendants were not part of the study. > > Marg.

Read the British one, it was excellent. Edna - Ottawa -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Shepheard Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 11:22 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Re: Brits genes There is no simple, straight line explanation for the genetic history of the British Isles. Interested people should read these two books by Alistair Moffat: The British: A Genetic Journey (2013) The Scots: A Genetic Journey (2011)

There is no simple, straight line explanation for the genetic history of the British Isles. Interested people should read these two books by Alistair Moffat: The British: A Genetic Journey (2013) The Scots: A Genetic Journey (2011)

Photos, Westwell St., Plymouth: https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/745205069562181641/ Edna - Ottawa -----Original Message----- From: Anne Brooks Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 10:43 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] re Westwell street Many thanks to both Maureen and John... not only discovered Westwell St. but some great maps online :) Anne

Many thanks to both Maureen and John... not only discovered Westwell St. but some great maps online :) Anne

Danial found this info 1910 census Brookline, Norfolk, Massachusetts, United States, Agnes Rudell Head F 34 Scotland Alexander Rudell Son M 6 New York Alfred Rudell Son M 2 Massachusetts Isabelle Rudell Daughter F 0 Massachusetts No husband shown 1910, who is Alfred G Rudel Alfred G Rudall ? bigamous marriage to Lily V Woodhouse 1926, Exeter Who turns up on the 1930 census with family Boston (Districts 251-500), Suffolk, Massachusetts, United States Alfred G Rudel , 52, wife Agnes, Alfred G, son aged 21, Mary T, aged 16 The census are on familysearch with more info Regards Jane > On 04 November 2019 at 17:47 Danial Taylor <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hello all, > > Long story short: I am still researching my Great Grand-Uncle: Alfred George Rudall of Exeter. > > He was born in St Thomas, Exeter in 1884 and died, at my best guess in 1927. > > He is likely to have had PTSD from his experiences in the First World War, both from being wounded in the first day of the Battle of the Somme and from contracting Malaria whilst serving in LoC trenches in Iraq. > > His father, (my X2 Great Grandfather) William George Rudall issued a plea for his whereabouts on page 8 of the ‘Devon & Exeter Gazette’ Monday, August 15th 1927. > > It is very likely he committed suicide. > > Where could I find records of people missing, declared dead? If at all? > > Very kind regards, > > Danial Taylor > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Did the Normans not make an impact because they were related? Did they have more impact in Scotland? We know the Romans kept to themselves and mostly went home. However, our Cornish mining Nankivells moved to Devon when their mines expanded. Possible not enough to make a difference, some married locals and many immigrated so their descendants were not part of the study. Marg.

Hi Joy: Thanks for this posti- I’ve added a link to the Ipplepen Archeological Project website from the GENUKI/Devon Ipplepen page. Cheers Brian > On 4 Nov 2019, at 21:59, joy.langdon--- via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > > > One theory suggested is that the difference may be down to the late arrival of Anglo Saxons to Cornwall so Anglo Saxon DNA has been mingling in Devon for longer than in Cornwall. Don't forget that the difference is very small and the Devon and Cornish DNA are more similar to each other than the Cornish DNA is to Welsh and Scottish DNA. > > > I subscribe to several archaeological magazines and there are regular articles discussing British origins and debating the conquest v gradual assimilation theories, these days they tend to lean towards assimilation but I don't think anyone is going to stick their heads above the parapet and say they have the definitive answer. There are lots of puzzles about what was going on in the Dark Ages, it is very complex and they are discovering more all the time. > > With regards to the Roman influence in Devon, the recent excavations at Ipplepen have challenged assumptions and provided some exciting finds. Ipplepen is a village between Newton Abbot and Totnes and nobody expected what they found. Who knows what might come to light elsewhere to challenge our present perceptions. Here is an entry from the excavation blog. > http://ipplepen.exeter.ac.uk/2017/06/where-does-ipplepen-fit-in-the-roman-empire/ > > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Paul Hockie via DEVON" <[email protected]> > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Cc: "Jane Lucas" <[email protected]>; "Paul Hockie" <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, 4 Nov, 2019 At 20:39 > Subject: [DEV] Re: Devon and Cornwall > The Cornwall and Devon difference may be down to the Celtic connection. The Celts came up through the Balkans, turned left into Switzerland (Google "La Chene") and then left again into Spain. From Spain they took to a boat, stopping off in Britany, Cornwall, Wales, Ireland, the Isle of Man and Scotland. > When issues of ethnicity come up I always reference "1066 and all That" published 1930PD (pre DNA) > "For some reason the Romans neglected to overrun the country with fire and the sword, though they had both of these, in fact after the conquest they did not mingle with the Britons at all, but lived a semi-detached life in villas……. > The Scots (originally Irish, but by now Scotch) were at this time inhabiting Ireland, having driven the Irish (Picts) out of Scotland: while the Picts (originally Scots) were now Irish (living in brackets) and vice versa. It is essential to keep these distinctions clearly in mind (and vice versa)…. > Britain was attacked by waves of Picts (and, of course, Scots) who had recently learnt how to climb the <Hadrian’s> wall, and of Angles, Saxons and Jutes who, landing at Thanet, soon overran the country with fire (and of course, the sword)…… > The brutal Saxon invaders drove the Britons westward into Wales and compelled them to become Welsh…. > The country was now almost entirely inhabited by Saxons and was therefore renamed England…." > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community — School of Computing, Newcastle University, 1 Science Square, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE4 5TG EMAIL = [email protected] PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 URL = http://www.ncl.ac.uk/computing/people/profile/brianrandell.html