Thanks to all for the GRO site ino Guy On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 at 00:02, Tim Treeby (Genealogy) < [email protected]> wrote: > Just to let everyone know. > The GRO have just added death indexes for 1984-2019 to there site. > > Tim Treeby > DFHS : 13926 > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS ( > http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Thanks Lyn. I was just about to request the same information when I saw that you'd beaten me to it. Jane Gould -----Original Message----- From: Lyn <[email protected]> Sent: 08 November 2019 10:13 To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Re: GRO Website The actual search page is https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Just added yet more additions to the Members' area surname search; 994 names added to Monumental Inscriptions (Gravestones) with 741 images 2020 membership now open, join from just £12.00 a year Terry

Hi Diane, One possibility is that your grandmother also had a "fling" with someone else, and whilst she may have been convinced that CHTS was the father of her baby, she may have been wrong. As I understand it, it is extremely unlikely that two first cousins, even if half-cousins, will not show as a DNA match. As we go further back, the same cannot be said. For more distant cousins, it is possible to get false negatives, where no match is reported when then should be one. Another possibility is that your cousins do not descend from CHTS after all ! Pandora's box springs to mind ! Best wishes Mike Gould Leicestershire -----Original Message----- From: Diane Foster <[email protected]> Sent: 08 November 2019 05:04 To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Re: British Isles and Devon and Cornwall DNA Hello All Listers, especially those who are feeling "bored"! I can't pay but if someone is looking to help me solve a mystery of my maternal grandfather's biological ancestry I would be very grateful and happy to host you on a visit ! Grandad was Charles Henry Toy SUMMERS (CHTS) b 1878 in Falmouth. I have all his records, including birth, census, RN etc., etc., Clara, his mother was not married when he was born, hence he took her maiden name of SUMMERS. CHTS appears in his first Census (1891) as Harry TOY, grandson and living with his maternal grandparents, Charlles and Eliza cross SUMERS, she is nee ALDRIDGE and I have her family roots back to Surrey (all above proven with documents). This indicates to me that his family knew of the relationsh9ip that their daughter probably had with a fellow by the name of TOY. Family stories said that CHTS's father was a sea captain by the surname TOY, out of Falmouth. I found a couple of newspaper articles wherein Clara has taken Charles Henry TOY to Court for maintenance in 1879 , he was a mariner in the RN and I have his papers. Yes, he was in Flamouth at the time of conception! The following year, CHT (supposed father) is married in Plymouth to a Mary Ann GILL, who seems to have been born in Plymouth. CHT (father) died in Sep 1899 at Plymouth. I have two male cousins who are direct descendants of CHTS, one of his sons, James Edward, born Devonport, have had their DNA analysed. I also have the DNA of a gentleman (still living) who is also a TOY, and whose descendants are from Cornwall. TOY being a well known name in Cornwall I believe.. So, I've attempted to look for a DNA match between my two male cousins and the living gentleman. Not match!!!!!! However, I am not very skilled in the matching business fo DNA or understand much of it, despite reading some about it!!! I am now wondering if the living Mr TOY is really from that line, although I wouldn't dare ask him at this stage. Or, if my Grandad, despite his Mother taking CHT to Court, isn't really a TOY. CHT, the RN seaman was in fact living not far from the other SUMMERS families in Devonport, who had left Falmouth to go to Devonport. I wonder if their paths crossed - I guess I'll never know. So, does anyone feel the urge to check things out for me, or, have advice? I'm sorry if this sounds a bit cheeky, but I do see that the many people on the Devon List are always helpful. sincerely, Diane - Wetern Australia On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 10:48 AM fh.researcher via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi MikeI have about 20 trees that I've researched for friends. It's a > wonderful way of getting free holidays around the world! I've even > given up checking other trees on Ancestry as some people are just > crazy and their trees are full of errors., especially those who don't > use software but put their trees directly onto sites like Ancestry. We > all get the occasional error in our trees, even those like you and I > who have been researching for years before the internet. I get very cross with myself when that happens. > I recall hearing from a Reverend gentleman in the US who kindly told > me I had an error in my tree. Unfortunately I had to write back to > him and tell him my tree is correct but that I knew his grandfather > had left a wife and family in England and he'd committed bigamy! He > was mortified. Two old school friends from boarding school are coming > for lunch today. Being a boarding school we were from all over the > world. One has married my 5th cousin. The other married a distant > connection to my granddaughter. I knew that was going to happen when I > traced him back from Devon (Methodist Minister's son) as they move > around a lot, to Truro and then to West Cornwall. Everyone in West > Cornwall is related umpteen times. Too many inter-marriages. Not > surprising given the geographical location. I'm now interested in my > Maltese puppy's history. Did he really originate from Malta and if > so, when did they arrive on our shores?Cheers, LizSent from Samsung tablet. > -------- Original message --------From: Mike Gould < > [email protected]> Date: 07/11/2019 21:01 (GMT+00:00) To: > [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Re: British Isles and Devon and > Cornwall DNA Hi Liz,If you start to feel that it's boring, look at it > this way - in the past, your research was so good that you may have > been 95% sure that it was correct. Now, because the DNA results have > been consistent with your research, you can be even more confident > that your tree is correct !Good research + consistent DNA results = > high confidenceI've even resorted to doing someone else's tree in > order to get that confidence in my own tree.Best > wishesMike-----Original > Message-----From: Liz Youle via DEVON <[email protected]> Sent: 07 > November 2019 18:51To: [email protected]: Liz Youle < > [email protected]>Subject: [DEV] Re: British Isles and > Devon and Cornwall DNAI have replied and connected to all those who have "leafs" > beside their names. All 94 of them. There are a couple who are > obviously going to be connected but they definitely have errors and > blanks in their trees and I need to work on them.I haven't really been > able to find any new cousins apart from those over4 generations away. > As I started researching my families back in 1954 there are really no > new members of the family that I can find. No mysteries, it's really > quite boring.LizRootsWeb > community_______________________________________________-------------- > ----------------------------The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored > by GENUKI/Devonhttp:// > www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS ( > http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ > )_______________________________________________Email preferences: > http://bit.ly/rootswebprefUnsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blogRootsWeb > is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS ( > http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal > RootsWeb community > _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

The actual search page is https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

It is the official GRO site at https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp Tim Treeby On 08/11/2019 08:42, Guy Lawton wrote: > Tim > > Can you please post the link to the GRO death index site you mention as I > cannot find any such site extending to 2019? > > Guy Lawton > > On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 at 00:02, Tim Treeby (Genealogy) < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Just to let everyone know. >> The GRO have just added death indexes for 1984-2019 to there site. >> >> Tim Treeby >> DFHS : 13926 >> >> _______________________________________________ >>

Tim Can you please post the link to the GRO death index site you mention as I cannot find any such site extending to 2019? Guy Lawton On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 at 00:02, Tim Treeby (Genealogy) < [email protected]> wrote: > Just to let everyone know. > The GRO have just added death indexes for 1984-2019 to there site. > > Tim Treeby > DFHS : 13926 > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS ( > http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Hello All Listers, especially those who are feeling "bored"! I can't pay but if someone is looking to help me solve a mystery of my maternal grandfather's biological ancestry I would be very grateful and happy to host you on a visit ! Grandad was Charles Henry Toy SUMMERS (CHTS) b 1878 in Falmouth. I have all his records, including birth, census, RN etc., etc., Clara, his mother was not married when he was born, hence he took her maiden name of SUMMERS. CHTS appears in his first Census (1891) as Harry TOY, grandson and living with his maternal grandparents, Charlles and Eliza cross SUMERS, she is nee ALDRIDGE and I have her family roots back to Surrey (all above proven with documents). This indicates to me that his family knew of the relationsh9ip that their daughter probably had with a fellow by the name of TOY. Family stories said that CHTS's father was a sea captain by the surname TOY, out of Falmouth. I found a couple of newspaper articles wherein Clara has taken Charles Henry TOY to Court for maintenance in 1879 , he was a mariner in the RN and I have his papers. Yes, he was in Flamouth at the time of conception! The following year, CHT (supposed father) is married in Plymouth to a Mary Ann GILL, who seems to have been born in Plymouth. CHT (father) died in Sep 1899 at Plymouth. I have two male cousins who are direct descendants of CHTS, one of his sons, James Edward, born Devonport, have had their DNA analysed. I also have the DNA of a gentleman (still living) who is also a TOY, and whose descendants are from Cornwall. TOY being a well known name in Cornwall I believe.. So, I've attempted to look for a DNA match between my two male cousins and the living gentleman. Not match!!!!!! However, I am not very skilled in the matching business fo DNA or understand much of it, despite reading some about it!!! I am now wondering if the living Mr TOY is really from that line, although I wouldn't dare ask him at this stage. Or, if my Grandad, despite his Mother taking CHT to Court, isn't really a TOY. CHT, the RN seaman was in fact living not far from the other SUMMERS families in Devonport, who had left Falmouth to go to Devonport. I wonder if their paths crossed - I guess I'll never know. So, does anyone feel the urge to check things out for me, or, have advice? I'm sorry if this sounds a bit cheeky, but I do see that the many people on the Devon List are always helpful. sincerely, Diane - Wetern Australia On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 10:48 AM fh.researcher via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi MikeI have about 20 trees that I've researched for friends. It's a > wonderful way of getting free holidays around the world! I've even given > up checking other trees on Ancestry as some people are just crazy and their > trees are full of errors., especially those who don't use software but put > their trees directly onto sites like Ancestry. We all get the occasional > error in our trees, even those like you and I who have been researching for > years before the internet. I get very cross with myself when that happens. > I recall hearing from a Reverend gentleman in the US who kindly told me I > had an error in my tree. Unfortunately I had to write back to him and tell > him my tree is correct but that I knew his grandfather had left a wife and > family in England and he'd committed bigamy! He was mortified. Two old > school friends from boarding school are coming for lunch today. Being a > boarding school we were from all over the world. One has married my 5th > cousin. The other married a distant connection to my granddaughter. I knew > that was going to happen when I traced him back from Devon (Methodist > Minister's son) as they move around a lot, to Truro and then to West > Cornwall. Everyone in West Cornwall is related umpteen times. Too many > inter-marriages. Not surprising given the geographical location. I'm now > interested in my Maltese puppy's history. Did he really originate from > Malta and if so, when did they arrive on our shores?Cheers, LizSent from > Samsung tablet. > -------- Original message --------From: Mike Gould < > [email protected]> Date: 07/11/2019 21:01 (GMT+00:00) To: > [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Re: British Isles and Devon and > Cornwall DNA Hi Liz,If you start to feel that it's boring, look at it this > way - in the past, your research was so good that you may have been 95% > sure that it was correct. Now, because the DNA results have been > consistent with your research, you can be even more confident that your > tree is correct !Good research + consistent DNA results = high > confidenceI've even resorted to doing someone else's tree in order to get > that confidence in my own tree.Best wishesMike-----Original > Message-----From: Liz Youle via DEVON <[email protected]> Sent: 07 > November 2019 18:51To: [email protected]: Liz Youle < > [email protected]>Subject: [DEV] Re: British Isles and Devon > and Cornwall DNAI have replied and connected to all those who have "leafs" > beside their names. All 94 of them. There are a couple who are obviously > going to be connected but they definitely have errors and blanks in their > trees and I need to work on them.I haven't really been able to find any new > cousins apart from those over4 generations away. As I started researching > my families back in 1954 there are really no new members of the family that > I can find. No mysteries, it's really quite boring.LizRootsWeb > community_______________________________________________------------------------------------------The > DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devonhttp:// > www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS ( > http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ > )_______________________________________________Email preferences: > http://bit.ly/rootswebprefUnsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blogRootsWeb is > funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS ( > http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Hi MikeI have about 20 trees that I've researched for friends. It's a wonderful way of getting free holidays around the world!  I've even given up checking other trees on Ancestry as some people are just crazy and their trees are full of errors., especially those who don't use software but put their trees directly onto sites like Ancestry. We all get the occasional error in our trees, even those like you and I who have been researching for years before the internet. I get very cross with myself when that happens.  I recall hearing from a Reverend gentleman in the US who kindly told me I had an error in my tree.  Unfortunately I had to write back to him and tell him my tree is correct but that I knew his grandfather had left a wife and family in England and he'd  committed bigamy!  He was mortified.  Two old school friends from boarding school are coming for lunch today.  Being a boarding school we were from all over the world.  One has married my 5th cousin. The other married a distant connection to my granddaughter. I knew that was going to happen when I traced him back from Devon (Methodist Minister's son) as they move around a lot, to Truro and then to West Cornwall.  Everyone in West Cornwall is related umpteen times. Too many inter-marriages. Not surprising given the geographical location.  I'm now interested in my Maltese puppy's history.  Did he really originate from Malta and if so, when did they arrive on our shores?Cheers, LizSent from Samsung tablet. -------- Original message --------From: Mike Gould <[email protected]> Date: 07/11/2019 21:01 (GMT+00:00) To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Re: British Isles and Devon and Cornwall DNA Hi Liz,If you start to feel that it's boring, look at it this way - in the past, your research was so good that you may have been 95% sure that it was correct.  Now, because the DNA results have been consistent with your research, you can be even more confident that your tree is correct !Good research + consistent DNA results = high confidenceI've even resorted to doing someone else's tree in order to get that confidence in my own tree.Best wishesMike-----Original Message-----From: Liz Youle via DEVON <[email protected]> Sent: 07 November 2019 18:51To: [email protected]: Liz Youle <[email protected]>Subject: [DEV] Re: British Isles and Devon and Cornwall DNAI have replied and connected to all those who have "leafs" beside their names.  All 94 of them.  There are a couple who are obviously going to be connected but they definitely have errors and blanks in their trees and I need to work on them.I haven't really been able to find any new cousins apart from those over4 generations away.  As I started researching my families back in 1954 there are really no new members of the family that I can find.  No mysteries, it's really quite boring.LizRootsWeb community_______________________________________________------------------------------------------The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devonhttp://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ )_______________________________________________Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebprefUnsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blogRootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Don't get me on the subject of Cornish ice cream. Roskillys farm is very Cornish and makes the best. Beware some makes have too much sugar in them. Heligan house made their own ice well before refrigeration and would have made ice cream.  While on the subject of immigration, many countries in and around the Mediterranean have Thalassemia which is inherited if you are all saying many Devonians originated from that area -  how many of you have this in your family? I know it probably weakens from generation to generation. My cousin's husband has been diagnosed with thalassemia minor but I can find no foreign links which is very strange.LizSent from Samsung tablet. -------- Original message --------From: Sher Leetooze <[email protected]> Date: 07/11/2019 22:32 (GMT+00:00) To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Re: Brits genes Paul:Every town in Cornwall now has an ice cream man - mm-m-m have you ever tasted Cornish ice cream??  Fantastic - perhaps the recipe was handed down from Romans - I believe the bulk of Cornish ice cream is made/marketted by Italian families.Sher

Just to let everyone know. The GRO have just added death indexes for 1984-2019 to there site. Tim Treeby DFHS  : 13926

Several decades ago while researching my Cornish family I read that the Phoenicians traded in Cornwall for tin. So we cannot discount the various countries who came from far away to trade as I am sure there must have been intermingling with the Cornish people in more than trade goods. Marie Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Paul Hockie via DEVON Sent: Friday, 8 November 2019 10:47 AM To: Caren Wilcox; [email protected] Cc: Paul Hockie Subject: [DEV] Re: Brits genes Caren, Probably longer ago than I think, there were articles that compared cave drawings in France with some in Arizona, together with some other finds. At the time it was thought (I didn't read the rationale) the connection was via the Russia/Alaska land bridge. I don't think they had got as far as DNA testing. The researchers were reputable and based in both Arizona and France. Cheers Paul

Caren, Probably longer ago than I think, there were articles that compared cave drawings in France with some in Arizona, together with some other finds. At the time it was thought (I didn't read the rationale) the connection was via the Russia/Alaska land bridge. I don't think they had got as far as DNA testing. The researchers were reputable and based in both Arizona and France. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: Caren Wilcox [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 07 November 2019 23:22 To: [email protected] Cc: Paul Hockie Subject: RE: [DEV] Re: Brits genes I am enjoying this thread although I know it is a bit off topic. However, as one of the "Muricans" on the thread let me make one small correction here. Indeed Alaska and Russia were connected - some say by ice, some say by warm water that could be crossed easily and safely. But it was not Central Europeans who came across. The original Native Americans, at least of some tribes, came from Asia. DNA connections have been made between western tribes and Mongolia and other parts of Asia. And don't forget the Mongol "hordes" who came into Romania and parts of Eastern Europe. There was a lot of travel - far more than we guess. Caren Wilcox -----Original Message----- From: Paul Hockie via DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, November 7, 2019 4:19 PM To: [email protected] Cc: Paul Hockie Subject: [DEV] Re: Brits genes Just a couple of points. The Romans preferred to colonise and tax rather than plunder. The beneficiaries of this taxation were Roman Citizens, a status passed down from father to son originating in the first inhabitants of Rome. That were relatively few in number and could assert their superiority by stating "I am a Roman citizen" (Cives Romani sum). The geography of Europe and Britain that time was not based on countries as we know them but tribal areas and the borders tended to be very fluid. Julius Caesar gives an account of this in his various writings. Modern Europe really dates from the end of WW1. The version of the Garden of Eden I last read was that there were 7 (or 11) "Daughters of Eve" who spread out from Ethiopia or perhaps Namibia as the dominant "Homo". The geography and climate were completely different. Doggerland had not sunk into the North Sea (Brexit 1?) and a warm Alaska was joined to Russia allowing migrants from central Europe to become Native Americans. Oh, and in the late 19th/early 20th century every town in Britain had a Gelateria and an ice-cream man. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Bruce [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 06 November 2019 22:34 To: Devon Rootsweb Subject: [DEV] Re: Brits genes On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 20:23, Paul Hockie via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > ... Were the Normans and Romans just not "fit" in Darwin terms. This is classic survival of the fittest. ... Except, except... So far as I know, all this analysis depends on the detection of patterns and that depends on bits sticking out. In fact, i've a suspicion that I've read that the ethnic analyses rely on looking just at the bits that stand out as different - today - and ignoring the rest. If the Roman legionaries (rather than the Romans per se) stirred the pot so comprehensively that their DNA is today found across the whole of Europe, then nothing would cause anyone to think anything of anyone with some of this Roman DNA because it's now found across all Europe and is just, meh, bog-standard European. You'd need to start analysing DNA from old burials to see if items in the generic Euro-DNA tracks concentrate in certain areas as you go back. It is certainly true that if you go back far enough then you'll find that the statistical average European DNA breaks up and it becomes clear that there is no single source for the European "race" - go back far enough and I think that there were four "races" in Europe that were as different from one another as European is from East Asian today. It just got all mixed up. Adrian _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

DNA analysis can compare two or more DNA strands from any living or formerly living thing. Matching strands can be grouped together and classified by specie, geography, age, medical susceptibility - anything you want. There are potential sources in Rome (cemeteries, catacombs etc.) to compare with modern Romans and then populations in the UK including the various Roman cemeteries Time Team dug up. It might take time and money. It can be done but I doubt this is a priority. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: Our Mail [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 07 November 2019 21:58 To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Re: Brits genes As has been stated before, the Roman Legions were composed of troops from all over their empire.   If you then look at the genetic variances in Italy itself, I challenge anyone to isolate an identifiable specific 'Roman' influence on UK DNA. John On 8/11/2019 8:18 am, Paul Hockie via DEVON wrote: > Just a couple of points. The Romans preferred to colonise and tax rather than plunder. The beneficiaries of this taxation were Roman Citizens, a status passed down from father to son originating in the first inhabitants of Rome. That were relatively few in number and could assert their superiority by stating "I am a Roman citizen" (Cives Romani sum). The geography of Europe and Britain that time was not based on countries as we know them but tribal areas and the borders tended to be very fluid. Julius Caesar gives an account of this in his various writings. Modern Europe really dates from the end of WW1. > The version of the Garden of Eden I last read was that there were 7 (or 11) "Daughters of Eve" who spread out from Ethiopia or perhaps Namibia as the dominant "Homo". The geography and climate were completely different. Doggerland had not sunk into the North Sea (Brexit 1?) and a warm Alaska was joined to Russia allowing migrants from central Europe to become Native Americans. > > Oh, and in the late 19th/early 20th century every town in Britain had a Gelateria and an ice-cream man. > > Cheers > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I am enjoying this thread although I know it is a bit off topic. However, as one of the "Muricans" on the thread let me make one small correction here. Indeed Alaska and Russia were connected - some say by ice, some say by warm water that could be crossed easily and safely. But it was not Central Europeans who came across. The original Native Americans, at least of some tribes, came from Asia. DNA connections have been made between western tribes and Mongolia and other parts of Asia. And don't forget the Mongol "hordes" who came into Romania and parts of Eastern Europe. There was a lot of travel - far more than we guess. Caren Wilcox -----Original Message----- From: Paul Hockie via DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, November 7, 2019 4:19 PM To: [email protected] Cc: Paul Hockie Subject: [DEV] Re: Brits genes Just a couple of points. The Romans preferred to colonise and tax rather than plunder. The beneficiaries of this taxation were Roman Citizens, a status passed down from father to son originating in the first inhabitants of Rome. That were relatively few in number and could assert their superiority by stating "I am a Roman citizen" (Cives Romani sum). The geography of Europe and Britain that time was not based on countries as we know them but tribal areas and the borders tended to be very fluid. Julius Caesar gives an account of this in his various writings. Modern Europe really dates from the end of WW1. The version of the Garden of Eden I last read was that there were 7 (or 11) "Daughters of Eve" who spread out from Ethiopia or perhaps Namibia as the dominant "Homo". The geography and climate were completely different. Doggerland had not sunk into the North Sea (Brexit 1?) and a warm Alaska was joined to Russia allowing migrants from central Europe to become Native Americans. Oh, and in the late 19th/early 20th century every town in Britain had a Gelateria and an ice-cream man. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Bruce [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 06 November 2019 22:34 To: Devon Rootsweb Subject: [DEV] Re: Brits genes On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 20:23, Paul Hockie via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > ... Were the Normans and Romans just not "fit" in Darwin terms. This is classic survival of the fittest. ... Except, except... So far as I know, all this analysis depends on the detection of patterns and that depends on bits sticking out. In fact, i've a suspicion that I've read that the ethnic analyses rely on looking just at the bits that stand out as different - today - and ignoring the rest. If the Roman legionaries (rather than the Romans per se) stirred the pot so comprehensively that their DNA is today found across the whole of Europe, then nothing would cause anyone to think anything of anyone with some of this Roman DNA because it's now found across all Europe and is just, meh, bog-standard European. You'd need to start analysing DNA from old burials to see if items in the generic Euro-DNA tracks concentrate in certain areas as you go back. It is certainly true that if you go back far enough then you'll find that the statistical average European DNA breaks up and it becomes clear that there is no single source for the European "race" - go back far enough and I think that there were four "races" in Europe that were as different from one another as European is from East Asian today. It just got all mixed up. Adrian _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Only Cornish "style" here but we do have some great Gelato. -----Original Message----- From: Sher Leetooze [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 07 November 2019 22:32 To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Re: Brits genes Paul: Every town in Cornwall now has an ice cream man - mm-m-m have you ever tasted Cornish ice cream?? Fantastic - perhaps the recipe was handed down from Romans - I believe the bulk of Cornish ice cream is made/marketted by Italian families. Sher On 11/7/2019 3:18 PM, Paul Hockie via DEVON wrote: > Just a couple of points. The Romans preferred to colonise and tax rather than plunder. The beneficiaries of this taxation were Roman Citizens, a status passed down from father to son originating in the first inhabitants of Rome. That were relatively few in number and could assert their superiority by stating "I am a Roman citizen" (Cives Romani sum). The geography of Europe and Britain that time was not based on countries as we know them but tribal areas and the borders tended to be very fluid. Julius Caesar gives an account of this in his various writings. Modern Europe really dates from the end of WW1. > The version of the Garden of Eden I last read was that there were 7 (or 11) "Daughters of Eve" who spread out from Ethiopia or perhaps Namibia as the dominant "Homo". The geography and climate were completely different. Doggerland had not sunk into the North Sea (Brexit 1?) and a warm Alaska was joined to Russia allowing migrants from central Europe to become Native Americans. > > Oh, and in the late 19th/early 20th century every town in Britain had a Gelateria and an ice-cream man. > > Cheers > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Adrian Bruce [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 06 November 2019 22:34 > To: Devon Rootsweb > Subject: [DEV] Re: Brits genes > > On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 20:23, Paul Hockie via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: >> ... Were the Normans and Romans just not "fit" in Darwin terms. This is classic survival of the fittest. ... > Except, except... So far as I know, all this analysis depends on the > detection of patterns and that depends on bits sticking out. In fact, > i've a suspicion that I've read that the ethnic analyses rely on > looking just at the bits that stand out as different - today - and > ignoring the rest. > > If the Roman legionaries (rather than the Romans per se) stirred the > pot so comprehensively that their DNA is today found across the whole > of Europe, then nothing would cause anyone to think anything of anyone > with some of this Roman DNA because it's now found across all Europe > and is just, meh, bog-standard European. You'd need to start analysing > DNA from old burials to see if items in the generic Euro-DNA tracks > concentrate in certain areas as you go back. > > It is certainly true that if you go back far enough then you'll find > that the statistical average European DNA breaks up and it becomes > clear that there is no single source for the European "race" - go back > far enough and I think that there were four "races" in Europe that > were as different from one another as European is from East Asian > today. It just got all mixed up. > > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Paul: Every town in Cornwall now has an ice cream man - mm-m-m have you ever tasted Cornish ice cream?? Fantastic - perhaps the recipe was handed down from Romans - I believe the bulk of Cornish ice cream is made/marketted by Italian families. Sher On 11/7/2019 3:18 PM, Paul Hockie via DEVON wrote: > Just a couple of points. The Romans preferred to colonise and tax rather than plunder. The beneficiaries of this taxation were Roman Citizens, a status passed down from father to son originating in the first inhabitants of Rome. That were relatively few in number and could assert their superiority by stating "I am a Roman citizen" (Cives Romani sum). The geography of Europe and Britain that time was not based on countries as we know them but tribal areas and the borders tended to be very fluid. Julius Caesar gives an account of this in his various writings. Modern Europe really dates from the end of WW1. > The version of the Garden of Eden I last read was that there were 7 (or 11) "Daughters of Eve" who spread out from Ethiopia or perhaps Namibia as the dominant "Homo". The geography and climate were completely different. Doggerland had not sunk into the North Sea (Brexit 1?) and a warm Alaska was joined to Russia allowing migrants from central Europe to become Native Americans. > > Oh, and in the late 19th/early 20th century every town in Britain had a Gelateria and an ice-cream man. > > Cheers > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Adrian Bruce [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 06 November 2019 22:34 > To: Devon Rootsweb > Subject: [DEV] Re: Brits genes > > On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 20:23, Paul Hockie via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: >> ... Were the Normans and Romans just not "fit" in Darwin terms. This is classic survival of the fittest. ... > Except, except... So far as I know, all this analysis depends on the > detection of patterns and that depends on bits sticking out. In fact, > i've a suspicion that I've read that the ethnic analyses rely on > looking just at the bits that stand out as different - today - and > ignoring the rest. > > If the Roman legionaries (rather than the Romans per se) stirred the > pot so comprehensively that their DNA is today found across the whole > of Europe, then nothing would cause anyone to think anything of anyone > with some of this Roman DNA because it's now found across all Europe > and is just, meh, bog-standard European. You'd need to start analysing > DNA from old burials to see if items in the generic Euro-DNA tracks > concentrate in certain areas as you go back. > > It is certainly true that if you go back far enough then you'll find > that the statistical average European DNA breaks up and it becomes > clear that there is no single source for the European "race" - go back > far enough and I think that there were four "races" in Europe that > were as different from one another as European is from East Asian > today. It just got all mixed up. > > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com

As has been stated before, the Roman Legions were composed of troops from all over their empire.   If you then look at the genetic variances in Italy itself, I challenge anyone to isolate an identifiable specific 'Roman' influence on UK DNA. John On 8/11/2019 8:18 am, Paul Hockie via DEVON wrote: > Just a couple of points. The Romans preferred to colonise and tax rather than plunder. The beneficiaries of this taxation were Roman Citizens, a status passed down from father to son originating in the first inhabitants of Rome. That were relatively few in number and could assert their superiority by stating "I am a Roman citizen" (Cives Romani sum). The geography of Europe and Britain that time was not based on countries as we know them but tribal areas and the borders tended to be very fluid. Julius Caesar gives an account of this in his various writings. Modern Europe really dates from the end of WW1. > The version of the Garden of Eden I last read was that there were 7 (or 11) "Daughters of Eve" who spread out from Ethiopia or perhaps Namibia as the dominant "Homo". The geography and climate were completely different. Doggerland had not sunk into the North Sea (Brexit 1?) and a warm Alaska was joined to Russia allowing migrants from central Europe to become Native Americans. > > Oh, and in the late 19th/early 20th century every town in Britain had a Gelateria and an ice-cream man. > > Cheers > > Paul > >

Just a couple of points. The Romans preferred to colonise and tax rather than plunder. The beneficiaries of this taxation were Roman Citizens, a status passed down from father to son originating in the first inhabitants of Rome. That were relatively few in number and could assert their superiority by stating "I am a Roman citizen" (Cives Romani sum). The geography of Europe and Britain that time was not based on countries as we know them but tribal areas and the borders tended to be very fluid. Julius Caesar gives an account of this in his various writings. Modern Europe really dates from the end of WW1. The version of the Garden of Eden I last read was that there were 7 (or 11) "Daughters of Eve" who spread out from Ethiopia or perhaps Namibia as the dominant "Homo". The geography and climate were completely different. Doggerland had not sunk into the North Sea (Brexit 1?) and a warm Alaska was joined to Russia allowing migrants from central Europe to become Native Americans. Oh, and in the late 19th/early 20th century every town in Britain had a Gelateria and an ice-cream man. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Bruce [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 06 November 2019 22:34 To: Devon Rootsweb Subject: [DEV] Re: Brits genes On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 20:23, Paul Hockie via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > ... Were the Normans and Romans just not "fit" in Darwin terms. This is classic survival of the fittest. ... Except, except... So far as I know, all this analysis depends on the detection of patterns and that depends on bits sticking out. In fact, i've a suspicion that I've read that the ethnic analyses rely on looking just at the bits that stand out as different - today - and ignoring the rest. If the Roman legionaries (rather than the Romans per se) stirred the pot so comprehensively that their DNA is today found across the whole of Europe, then nothing would cause anyone to think anything of anyone with some of this Roman DNA because it's now found across all Europe and is just, meh, bog-standard European. You'd need to start analysing DNA from old burials to see if items in the generic Euro-DNA tracks concentrate in certain areas as you go back. It is certainly true that if you go back far enough then you'll find that the statistical average European DNA breaks up and it becomes clear that there is no single source for the European "race" - go back far enough and I think that there were four "races" in Europe that were as different from one another as European is from East Asian today. It just got all mixed up. Adrian _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hi Liz, If you start to feel that it's boring, look at it this way - in the past, your research was so good that you may have been 95% sure that it was correct. Now, because the DNA results have been consistent with your research, you can be even more confident that your tree is correct ! Good research + consistent DNA results = high confidence I've even resorted to doing someone else's tree in order to get that confidence in my own tree. Best wishes Mike -----Original Message----- From: Liz Youle via DEVON <[email protected]> Sent: 07 November 2019 18:51 To: [email protected] Cc: Liz Youle <[email protected]> Subject: [DEV] Re: British Isles and Devon and Cornwall DNA I have replied and connected to all those who have "leafs" beside their names. All 94 of them. There are a couple who are obviously going to be connected but they definitely have errors and blanks in their trees and I need to work on them. I haven't really been able to find any new cousins apart from those over 4 generations away. As I started researching my families back in 1954 there are really no new members of the family that I can find. No mysteries, it's really quite boring. Liz RootsWeb community