This is what the NHS have to say. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/thalassaemia/ - A child can only be born with thalassaemia if they inherit these faulty genes from both parents. - It mainly affects people of Mediterranean, south Asian, southeast Asian and Middle Eastern origin. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: Caren Wilcox [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 11 November 2019 16:31 To: [email protected] Cc: 'Jean Williams' Subject: [DEV] Re: Thalassemia Does anyone know if this is also prominent in Greek descendants? The name of the condition sounds more Greek than Italian. I have great niece and great nephew with Greek grandmother and Italian grandfather. I don't want to raise alarms unless I should. Caren -----Original Message----- From: Jean Williams via DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2019 6:36 AM To: [email protected] Cc: Jean Williams Subject: [DEV] Re: Thalassemia Sorry I made an error on my post - it should read "only if he has a partner who is also a carrier" Jean -----Original Message----- From: Jean Williams via DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 10 November 2019 22:51 To: [email protected] Cc: Jean Williams Subject: [DEV] Re: Thalassemia Just to let you know Thalassaemia Minor just means he carries a gene for this type of anaemia. It is only a problem if he has a child who is also a carrier. If the child inherits the gene from both parents they might inherit Thalassaemia Major which is a serious blood disorder which require lifelong treatment. Jean -----Original Message----- From: Liz Youle via DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 10 November 2019 20:26 To: [email protected] Cc: Liz Youle Subject: [DEV] Thalassemia Talking about Italians who ended up in Devon.? You would just not believe this. My school friends and their husbands came for lunch today.? Needless to say, I've known them for years and one of the husbands I've researched his family history.? His Devonian grandmother married an Italian from Palermo.? I never knew until today that he has Thalassemia Minor and it has been passed on down to most of his grandsons.? So, if you have Italian blood you really should be checked. Liz _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Thank you Adrian, Joan and Paul. Together you appear to have eliminated Peter WHITE of Modbury as my ancestor, and confirmed a possible Isabella as my 2g grandmother. I shall be replying to Adrian off-List as Arny life in India is far from being a topic for the Devon List. However, I can assure him that a Conductor was a position in the British Army and had been for centuries. Its modern equivalent is in the RAOC. Joan and Paul. I had the 1851 married servant Isabelal WHITE in my 'Possible but unproven ' file, as I had made an elementary genealogical mistake. In the 185I census I had found this result in tthe transcriprions on FMP, This had a line through 'Place of Birth' for both Isabella and a neighbouring servant. I assumed that in the absence of a '?' or 'nk' this meant that their places of birth were unknown. I didn't bother to look at the original record - naughty, naughty, Now that I have, I can clearly see that it states 'Scotland near Aberdeen' I already had a possibility for an Isabella in Ross amd Cromarty, with a father Daniel - as in Isabella's marriage certificate - which I will now follow up. Now that I appear to have severed any Devon connection in this branch of my family, I wil transfer any further info off-List. Thanks for help received. Diana

Does anyone know if this is also prominent in Greek descendants? The name of the condition sounds more Greek than Italian. I have great niece and great nephew with Greek grandmother and Italian grandfather. I don't want to raise alarms unless I should. Caren -----Original Message----- From: Jean Williams via DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2019 6:36 AM To: [email protected] Cc: Jean Williams Subject: [DEV] Re: Thalassemia Sorry I made an error on my post - it should read "only if he has a partner who is also a carrier" Jean -----Original Message----- From: Jean Williams via DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 10 November 2019 22:51 To: [email protected] Cc: Jean Williams Subject: [DEV] Re: Thalassemia Just to let you know Thalassaemia Minor just means he carries a gene for this type of anaemia. It is only a problem if he has a child who is also a carrier. If the child inherits the gene from both parents they might inherit Thalassaemia Major which is a serious blood disorder which require lifelong treatment. Jean -----Original Message----- From: Liz Youle via DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 10 November 2019 20:26 To: [email protected] Cc: Liz Youle Subject: [DEV] Thalassemia Talking about Italians who ended up in Devon.? You would just not believe this. My school friends and their husbands came for lunch today.? Needless to say, I've known them for years and one of the husbands I've researched his family history.? His Devonian grandmother married an Italian from Palermo.? I never knew until today that he has Thalassemia Minor and it has been passed on down to most of his grandsons.? So, if you have Italian blood you really should be checked. Liz _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Sorry I made an error on my post - it should read "only if he has a partner who is also a carrier" Jean -----Original Message----- From: Jean Williams via DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 10 November 2019 22:51 To: [email protected] Cc: Jean Williams Subject: [DEV] Re: Thalassemia Just to let you know Thalassaemia Minor just means he carries a gene for this type of anaemia. It is only a problem if he has a child who is also a carrier. If the child inherits the gene from both parents they might inherit Thalassaemia Major which is a serious blood disorder which require lifelong treatment. Jean -----Original Message----- From: Liz Youle via DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 10 November 2019 20:26 To: [email protected] Cc: Liz Youle Subject: [DEV] Thalassemia Talking about Italians who ended up in Devon.? You would just not believe this. My school friends and their husbands came for lunch today.? Needless to say, I've known them for years and one of the husbands I've researched his family history.? His Devonian grandmother married an Italian from Palermo.? I never knew until today that he has Thalassemia Minor and it has been passed on down to most of his grandsons.? So, if you have Italian blood you really should be checked. Liz _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Thank you all so much for the info, I will have a look & see how I go. Liz -----Original Message----- From: Ruth Wilson via DEVON Sent: Monday, November 11, 2019 6:42 AM To: Devon Cc: Ruth Wilson Subject: [DEV] Re: Military I have a two volume book ‘The Devonshire Regiment 1914-1918 ‘ compiled by C.T. Atkinson. Volume 2 contains lists of casualties and Honours and Awards. It also contains an index of people mentioned. It is published by The Naval and Military Press Ltd Unit 10, Ridgewood Industrial Park, Uckfield, East Sussex, TN225QE I obtained it last year, I think it was reprinted to coincide with the centenary. Ruth > On 10 Nov 2019, at 16:48, Adrian Bruce <[email protected]> wrote: > >> From: [email protected] > ... >> Can anyone tell me if there is a list of people who were in the “Devon >> Territorials Forces”. > ... > > If you mean, a list of people in the Territorial Force Battalions of > the Devonshire Regiment - which existed from 1908 to the end of WW1 - > then unless the Devon Record Office has something up its sleeve, the > answer will be no. > > There isn't a list of everyone who was in the British Army during WW1, > because the service papers of those people were in a warehouse that > was hit by an incendiary device during WW2 - as a result of that fire, > somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of those papers were destroyed. So **on > average** only 1/4 to 1/3 of the papers of the Devonshires (including > the Territorial Force battalions) survive. Anyone in the Army who left > the UK (which included the whole of Ireland at that time, of course) > during WW1 will have been issued with a campaign medal or 3 - the > medal rolls and index cards for the campaign medals survive intact but > it's virtually impossible to identify your John Smith in amongst the > others unless you have extra info. The index cards on Ancestry (but > not on the TNA site) have a space for correspondence address but, > officers aside, very very few soldiers had any correspondence, so no > addresses. And if your chap never got out of the UK during WW1, then > he didn't get a campaign medal so not even having a very rare name > will help. > > Suggest that you have a look at https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/ and > in particular > http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/ > > It's difficult to start without some clue - the one thing that might > be useful is that FindMyPast have Absent Voters' Lists (see "Britain, > Absent Voters Lists 1918-1921") - these are effectively those with a > postal vote and at the end of WW1, that potentially covered all > servicemen. However, (1) not everyone applied for a vote and (2) not > all constituencies have any AVLs to survive. FMP has AVLs for > Barnstaple, Honiton, South Molton, Tavistock, Tiverton, Torquay and > Totnes. Whether any others survive elsewhere, I don't know. > > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS > (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Just to let you know Thalassaemia Minor just means he carries a gene for this type of anaemia. It is only a problem if he has a child who is also a carrier. If the child inherits the gene from both parents they might inherit Thalassaemia Major which is a serious blood disorder which require lifelong treatment. Jean -----Original Message----- From: Liz Youle via DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 10 November 2019 20:26 To: [email protected] Cc: Liz Youle Subject: [DEV] Thalassemia Talking about Italians who ended up in Devon.� You would just not believe this. My school friends and their husbands came for lunch today.� Needless to say, I've known them for years and one of the husbands I've researched his family history.� His Devonian grandmother married an Italian from Palermo.� I never knew until today that he has Thalassemia Minor and it has been passed on down to most of his grandsons.� So, if you have Italian blood you really should be checked. Liz _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Diane, The Indian Army aspect seems to have been well covered so I thought I would look at the 1851 census. Isabella seem to be a servant living with Stephen Dennison, a Barrister, at Southwick Place, Paddington, Kensington, London & Middlesex, England. First name(s) Isabella Last name White Relationship Servant Marital status Married Sex Female Age 24 Birth year 1827 Occupation Serv Birth place - Birth place as transcribed Scotland Birth town - Birth town as transcribed Near Aberdeen Birth county - Street Southwick Place Town - Parish Paddington City Marylebone County London, Middlesex Hamlet - Parliamentary borough Marylebone Municipal ward - Registration district Kensington Archive reference HO107 Piece number 1467 Folio 506 Page 15 I could not find a suitable tailor but I did find a Peter White, shoemaker, living nearby. David Street, Marylebone, London & Middlesex, England First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place Peter White Head Married Male 35 1816 Shoemaker Ireland Lucy White Wife Married Female 35 1816 - Southampton, Hampshire, England Their ages may be wrong, they look too tidy. The only marriage for a Peter and Lucy was on Ancestry. Name: Peter White Spouse's Name: Lucy Whitlow Event Date: 01 Jul 1822 Event Place: Halifax, Virginia There is a chance that Frederick was given the rank of gunner and attached to the artillery for pay and rations. I tried searching further but both FMP and Ancestry are playing up. He could be in barracks or similar in 1851. I would consider checking all the Fredericks in London in 1851 for an married tailor not living at home. Cheers Paul Cheers -----Original Message----- From: Diana Trenchard via DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 08 November 2019 22:58 To: [email protected] Cc: Diana Trenchard Subject: [DEV] Peter WHITE bp 1796 Modbury Can anyone help me either to claim or to discard Peter WHITE (bp 1796 Modbury) as my 4g grandfather? My 3g grandfather Frederick John WHITE (FJW) was born at an unknown date and place. However, his marriage certificate names FJW's father as Peter, a boot-maker. WHITE being a very common surname makes great difficulties in researching it. I think I have now eliminated all other available Peters except this one mentioned above, about whom I can find no details apart from his baptism with parents Peter and Sarah (SYMONS).. FJW's known details are- 1850 Aug 5 he married Isabella GAIR in St Mary's, Paddington Green MDX, being described as a tailor and with father Peter, a boot-maker. Witnesses were Peter WHITE and Laura HUTCHINGS. 1851 census neither Peter nor FJW found. 1852 he was a tailor in Clerkenwell on birth certificate of his daughter Isabella (my ggrandmother). 1854 Gunner, 1st Battalion Artillery, Madras, India. From then on all records of FJW are in India. No record of the Attestation papers of FJW have yet been found which would give his place of birth - probably my inefficiency. I wondered if Peter WHITE pf Modbury joined the army, like his possible son FJW, which would explain missing records - or is it my inefficiency?In the 1851 census an Elizabeth WHITE is a live-in servant in London, claiming that she is married - suggestive that she is the wife od a soldier, but that may be me clutching at straws! Thanks in advance for any help or advice. Diana _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Talking about Italians who ended up in Devon.  You would just not believe this. My school friends and their husbands came for lunch today.  Needless to say, I've known them for years and one of the husbands I've researched his family history.  His Devonian grandmother married an Italian from Palermo.  I never knew until today that he has Thalassemia Minor and it has been passed on down to most of his grandsons.  So, if you have Italian blood you really should be checked. Liz

I have a two volume book ‘The Devonshire Regiment 1914-1918 ‘ compiled by C.T. Atkinson. Volume 2 contains lists of casualties and Honours and Awards. It also contains an index of people mentioned. It is published by The Naval and Military Press Ltd Unit 10, Ridgewood Industrial Park, Uckfield, East Sussex, TN225QE I obtained it last year, I think it was reprinted to coincide with the centenary. Ruth > On 10 Nov 2019, at 16:48, Adrian Bruce <[email protected]> wrote: > >> From: [email protected] > ... >> Can anyone tell me if there is a list of people who were in the “Devon Territorials Forces”. > ... > > If you mean, a list of people in the Territorial Force Battalions of > the Devonshire Regiment - which existed from 1908 to the end of WW1 - > then unless the Devon Record Office has something up its sleeve, the > answer will be no. > > There isn't a list of everyone who was in the British Army during WW1, > because the service papers of those people were in a warehouse that > was hit by an incendiary device during WW2 - as a result of that fire, > somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of those papers were destroyed. So **on > average** only 1/4 to 1/3 of the papers of the Devonshires (including > the Territorial Force battalions) survive. Anyone in the Army who left > the UK (which included the whole of Ireland at that time, of course) > during WW1 will have been issued with a campaign medal or 3 - the > medal rolls and index cards for the campaign medals survive intact but > it's virtually impossible to identify your John Smith in amongst the > others unless you have extra info. The index cards on Ancestry (but > not on the TNA site) have a space for correspondence address but, > officers aside, very very few soldiers had any correspondence, so no > addresses. And if your chap never got out of the UK during WW1, then > he didn't get a campaign medal so not even having a very rare name > will help. > > Suggest that you have a look at https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/ and > in particular http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/ > > It's difficult to start without some clue - the one thing that might > be useful is that FindMyPast have Absent Voters' Lists (see "Britain, > Absent Voters Lists 1918-1921") - these are effectively those with a > postal vote and at the end of WW1, that potentially covered all > servicemen. However, (1) not everyone applied for a vote and (2) not > all constituencies have any AVLs to survive. FMP has AVLs for > Barnstaple, Honiton, South Molton, Tavistock, Tiverton, Torquay and > Totnes. Whether any others survive elsewhere, I don't know. > > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I agree that there is no authoritative list of members of any specific battalion. The Devon Regiment had two Territorial Force battalions, the 5th and the 6th. My uncle served in 6/Devon Regt, and many years ago I found a book: The Sixth Battalion Devonshire Regiment In The Great War by Lieutenant-Colonel C L Flick CMG CBE. It was printed at Barnstable, A E Barnes Printer & Stationer, 1920 This book has a very long sub-title, but it includes 'a roll of the Warrant Officers, Non-Commissioned Officers and Men Who Served In The Battalion Overseas. It also includes a roll of awards The roll lists name, rank, number (the six figure re-number post 1917, not the four figure number of 1914), Company, and some additional notes on transfers Another way of finding a list of TF men is to use the medal rolls. If you have soldier in either 5th or 6th Devons, and you can find him on the medal roll (on Ancestry) the chances are good that every other man on that page will be in the same battalion. The Medal Index Card will provide both the four-figure and the six-figure number. All Great War 1914-15 Star Trios will be stamped with the four figure number John Sly On Sunday, 10 November 2019, 18:24:23 GMT, <[email protected]> wrote: Devon Family History Society has published, on CD,- DEVON ABSENT VOTERS, Spring 1919 (Excludes cities of Plymouth & Exeter) PLUS WOUNDED ADMITTED TO NEWTON ABBOT VAD HOSPITAL April 1918 to April 1919. A grand total of over 35,000 entries. CD087 Available at Devonfhs.org.uk/shop for £10 plus P&P Terry On 10/11/2019 16:48, Adrian Bruce wrote: >> From: [email protected] > ... >> Can anyone tell me if there is a list of people who were in the “Devon Territorials Forces”. > ... > > If you mean, a list of people in the Territorial Force Battalions of > the Devonshire Regiment - which existed from 1908 to the end of WW1 - > then unless the Devon Record Office has something up its sleeve, the > answer will be no. > > There isn't a list of everyone who was in the British Army during WW1, > because the service papers of those people were in a warehouse that > was hit by an incendiary device during WW2 - as a result of that fire, > somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of those papers were destroyed. So **on > average** only 1/4 to 1/3 of the papers of the Devonshires (including > the Territorial Force battalions) survive. Anyone in the Army who left > the UK (which included the whole of Ireland at that time, of course) > during WW1 will have been issued with a campaign medal or 3 - the > medal rolls and index cards for the campaign medals survive intact but > it's virtually impossible to identify your John Smith in amongst the > others unless you have extra info. The index cards on Ancestry (but > not on the TNA site) have a space for correspondence address but, > officers aside, very very few soldiers had any correspondence, so no > addresses. And if your chap never got out of the UK during WW1, then > he didn't get a campaign medal so not even having a very rare name > will help. > > Suggest that you have a look at https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/ and > in particular http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/ > > It's difficult to start without some clue - the one thing that might > be useful is that FindMyPast have Absent Voters' Lists (see "Britain, > Absent Voters Lists 1918-1921") - these are effectively those with a > postal vote and at the end of WW1, that potentially covered all > servicemen. However, (1) not everyone applied for a vote and (2) not > all constituencies have any AVLs to survive. FMP has AVLs for > Barnstaple, Honiton, South Molton, Tavistock, Tiverton, Torquay and > Totnes. Whether any others survive elsewhere, I don't know. > > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community -- Chairman - Devon Family History Society Registered Charity No. 282490 Mayflower International Genealogical Conference 2020 <http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/mayflower_conference.pdf> Web site: http://www.devonfhs.org.uk <http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/> Email address: [email protected] Join from just £12 a year _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I think this started off as to whether "Roman" DNA could be found in Britain today. The answer seems to be yes but in very few living people and there is a really problem in finding a validated group with which to compare.. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 08 November 2019 21:33 To: [email protected]; Paul Hockie Subject: RE: [DEV] Re: Brits genes I'm not an expert on the Roman army but although other ranks were not allowed to marry, unofficially they seemed to have companions. Centurions and above could marry and of course many civilians would have followed the legion. If they managed to complete their term of service (usually 25 years) they would often be given a grant of land to settle locally. M -----Original Message----- From: Nancy Frey <[email protected]> Sent: 06 November 2019 22:29 To: Paul Hockie <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Re: Brits genes Hi Paul, I get your point. I was following the story of the particular Legion that was stationed in Dorchester and didn't get the impression that there were soldiers leaving and arriving during their time in Britain, but that may have been the case. I'll have to take your word for it for the time being, but I haven't read anything about the soldiers being forbidden to marry. What was a marriage in those days for a Roman? Archealogical excavations have turned up all sorts of coins, issued by the military, in locations believed to be the site of a Vicus. So the soldiers spent their money 'in town'. I am looking at the situation in Dorset, not the isolation of Hadrian's Wall. I still feel my DAVIDGE ancestor was a Roman soldier, lol. If you will all stop speculating about DNA and read Roberta Estes blog, she answers most of these questions with reams of charts and graphs. She outlines how much of your DNA you are likely to get from a grandparent, a great-grandparent, etc. and shows quite clearly how you can figure out which part of your family what segments came from. It is all too complicated for me. As for mutations which some take to account for the "survival of the fittest" there are even some people today who don't agree with Darwin. I'm not into DNA any more than I need to be to understand how it affects the work I am collaborating with Roberta on, but I did take the course at The Pharos Institute to get the basics. It is my understanding that the kind of information required for the study in question is only available from a full sequence DNA test. Anything less is pure guesswork by the programs designed by the various testing labs, all of which are different. Roberta explains all that as well. If you want another opinion, her colleague Blaine Bettinger may be able to confirm what I'm saying on the Facebook page dedicated to the topic at https://www.facebook.com/groups/geneticgenealogytipsandtechniques/. I may be totally misinformed and the Autosomal test done by groups like Ancestry will give the results looked for. If I were doing the study I'd check it out a little more. Sorry, I don't believe everything I see on the TV. Recently there have been discoveries putting migration via a land bridge from Asia to North America in question. Richard III's remains were identified with an MtDNA test which followed his matrilinial line. Mitochondria is passed from mother to child. That's a whole new subject. It was not an Autosomal test through Ancestry. That's the only test Ancestry does. And as I said at the beginning of this thread, I do not believe it is 'on topic' for Rootsweb Devon. Cheers, Nancy Frey, Windsor, ON, Canada OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset [email protected] On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 3:22 PM Paul Hockie <[email protected]> wrote: > > Nancy, > > I am not sure I was very clear. Occupying legions served a "Tour of > Duty" in the same way as British Regiments served in Canada (my wife's > ancestor spent 10 years in Nova Scotia before being moved to Majorca). > At the end of the tour they moved on although not all survived until > the end of the tour. They lived in camps and were forbidden to marry - > mostly to prevent children claiming Roman citizenship. Marriage, > anyway, was a business arrangement for the Romans. Outside the camp > was the Vicus which grew up to supply the legions recreational needs, > many grew into towns. The Vicus offered taverns, brothels shops for > the poor soldier from North Africa who found himself walking up and > down Hadrian's Wall. The soldier who left as part of the exodus may > have only been in Britain 10 years. Like everything else there would > be exceptions. Senior military and, for want of a better word, civil > servants would bring their wives with them for the duration. Over time > higher echelons of British so ciety adopted the Roman way of life, some marrying, having children and remaining in Britain. Overall this would account for only a small portion of the population. > One thing that has not been touched on is DNA survival. For the comparison of the DNA of Richard III and the Tsar of Russia and his family only a handful of proven descendants could be found. As far as I am aware no-one knows if the 2 million who survived had "stronger" genes than those who died. Were the Normans and Romans just not "fit" in Darwin terms. This is classic survival of the fittest. At the other end of the scale one of last years Who Do You Think You Are featured an athlete from a small island off the coast of Ireland. Apparently the people of the island and a small part of the coast were so isolated that their DNA could be traced directly back to the Stone Age migrants who crossed from Europe via the land bridge (Doggerland) and before Ireland drifted out into the Atlantic. > > Cheers > > Paul _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Liz, I was wondering what you source was for the “Devon Territorials Forces". I have never seen this particular phrase before. As has been said in other replies, each regiment had a territorial battalion which, as the war progressed, became regiments. The National Archives guide is probably a good place to start looking for individual soldiers. When I Googled “Devon Territorials Forces” on my dumb phone I got the following hits. http://www.rammuseum.org.uk/devon-voices/earl-fortescue-lord-lieutenant-of-devon/ https://www.jstor.org/stable/40264194?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents I didn't read the full jstor paper but from the both I got the idea that “Devon Territorials Forces” was a collective name for the mobilisation of Devon. The thread has made me look again at my own grandfather who signed up in November 1914. Although both his parents were from the Halberton area he was born and living in the Teesside area. The family had moved as a result of one of the schemes to redeploy agricultural labourers. He attested for the Royal Garrison Artillery in Plymouth. He was 31 at the time, married with 4 children and claimed enough leave to get home and have a few more. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 10 November 2019 04:01 To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Military Can anyone tell me if there is a list of people who were in the “Devon Territorials Forces”. Liz Langford. _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Devon Family History Society has published, on CD,- DEVON ABSENT VOTERS, Spring 1919 (Excludes cities of Plymouth & Exeter) PLUS WOUNDED ADMITTED TO NEWTON ABBOT VAD HOSPITAL April 1918 to April 1919. A grand total of over 35,000 entries. CD087 Available at Devonfhs.org.uk/shop for £10 plus P&P Terry On 10/11/2019 16:48, Adrian Bruce wrote: >> From: [email protected] > ... >> Can anyone tell me if there is a list of people who were in the “Devon Territorials Forces”. > ... > > If you mean, a list of people in the Territorial Force Battalions of > the Devonshire Regiment - which existed from 1908 to the end of WW1 - > then unless the Devon Record Office has something up its sleeve, the > answer will be no. > > There isn't a list of everyone who was in the British Army during WW1, > because the service papers of those people were in a warehouse that > was hit by an incendiary device during WW2 - as a result of that fire, > somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of those papers were destroyed. So **on > average** only 1/4 to 1/3 of the papers of the Devonshires (including > the Territorial Force battalions) survive. Anyone in the Army who left > the UK (which included the whole of Ireland at that time, of course) > during WW1 will have been issued with a campaign medal or 3 - the > medal rolls and index cards for the campaign medals survive intact but > it's virtually impossible to identify your John Smith in amongst the > others unless you have extra info. The index cards on Ancestry (but > not on the TNA site) have a space for correspondence address but, > officers aside, very very few soldiers had any correspondence, so no > addresses. And if your chap never got out of the UK during WW1, then > he didn't get a campaign medal so not even having a very rare name > will help. > > Suggest that you have a look at https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/ and > in particular http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/ > > It's difficult to start without some clue - the one thing that might > be useful is that FindMyPast have Absent Voters' Lists (see "Britain, > Absent Voters Lists 1918-1921") - these are effectively those with a > postal vote and at the end of WW1, that potentially covered all > servicemen. However, (1) not everyone applied for a vote and (2) not > all constituencies have any AVLs to survive. FMP has AVLs for > Barnstaple, Honiton, South Molton, Tavistock, Tiverton, Torquay and > Totnes. Whether any others survive elsewhere, I don't know. > > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community -- Chairman - Devon Family History Society Registered Charity No. 282490 Mayflower International Genealogical Conference 2020 <http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/mayflower_conference.pdf> Web site: http://www.devonfhs.org.uk <http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/> Email address: [email protected] Join from just £12 a year

> From: [email protected] ... > Can anyone tell me if there is a list of people who were in the “Devon Territorials Forces”. ... If you mean, a list of people in the Territorial Force Battalions of the Devonshire Regiment - which existed from 1908 to the end of WW1 - then unless the Devon Record Office has something up its sleeve, the answer will be no. There isn't a list of everyone who was in the British Army during WW1, because the service papers of those people were in a warehouse that was hit by an incendiary device during WW2 - as a result of that fire, somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of those papers were destroyed. So **on average** only 1/4 to 1/3 of the papers of the Devonshires (including the Territorial Force battalions) survive. Anyone in the Army who left the UK (which included the whole of Ireland at that time, of course) during WW1 will have been issued with a campaign medal or 3 - the medal rolls and index cards for the campaign medals survive intact but it's virtually impossible to identify your John Smith in amongst the others unless you have extra info. The index cards on Ancestry (but not on the TNA site) have a space for correspondence address but, officers aside, very very few soldiers had any correspondence, so no addresses. And if your chap never got out of the UK during WW1, then he didn't get a campaign medal so not even having a very rare name will help. Suggest that you have a look at https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/ and in particular http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/ It's difficult to start without some clue - the one thing that might be useful is that FindMyPast have Absent Voters' Lists (see "Britain, Absent Voters Lists 1918-1921") - these are effectively those with a postal vote and at the end of WW1, that potentially covered all servicemen. However, (1) not everyone applied for a vote and (2) not all constituencies have any AVLs to survive. FMP has AVLs for Barnstaple, Honiton, South Molton, Tavistock, Tiverton, Torquay and Totnes. Whether any others survive elsewhere, I don't know. Adrian

I too would be interested - my husband's ancestor was in the 5th Devons. A website for the whole Regiment would be great, but last time we enquired nothing had been done in the way of putting anything online - no funds apparently. Sher On 11/9/2019 10:01 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Can anyone tell me if there is a list of people who were in the “Devon Territorials Forces”. > > > > Liz Langford. > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com

Ann Langford, Perhaps the National Archives have a listing: https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/volunteers-territorials/ Edna - Ottawa -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, November 9, 2019 11:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Military Can anyone tell me if there is a list of people who were in the “Devon Territorials Forces”. Liz Langford.

Can anyone tell me if there is a list of people who were in the “Devon Territorials Forces”. Liz Langford.

On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 at 22:02, Diana Trenchard via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: >... He then progressed as Master tailor, sub-conductor, Conductor, Conductor, Lieutenant, Lieutenant (Madras List) retired. ... Unless I am totally misunderstanding, ranks / appointments like Sub-Conductor and Conductor mean that he was in the East India Company's Madras (presumably) Army to start with, and then the Madras (apparently) part of the Indian Army after the demise of the EIC. I can never see "Sub-Conductor and Conductor" without imagining a bus conductor but I think that Sub-Conductor and Conductor were the equivalent of what became Warrant Officers in the British Army. (You may know all this, of course). > I don't know whether any of these will give rise to documents that include a date and place of birth. ... Me neither because I don't know anything about what documents were created and retained for those serving in the EIC / Indian Army. I suspect that any documents retained will have started in the India Office and therefore now be with the British Library. I don't **think** that their military stuff is online anywhere. But I would urge that you have a look at the FIBIS web-site (you may have already done so) to see what it says about the military. Also try http://indiafamily.bl.uk/ui/Home.aspx to see if the BL have indexed anything that FMP haven't. Best of luck. Adrian

Adrian, Thank you for your comprehensive reply. By not including details of FJW's subsequent arny life in India, I may have misled you. As already stated, the first record was of being in the Artillery in Madras in 1854. By following the occupations given at the baptisms of his reaining 19 children (yes 19!), I have followed his career. In 1857 he was a corporal at the Artillery depot in Madras, and in 1858 he was a Sergeant there. In 1859 he had a change of career and was a Staff Sergeant in the newly-formed Army Clothing Department in Adras (formed after the fiasco of unsuitable clothing for the soldiers in the Crimea). Remember that he had been a tailor before joining the army He then progressed as Master tailor, sub-conductor, Conductor, Conductor, Lieutenant, Lieutenant (Madras List) retired. He died and was buried 18 Jul 2892 Madras. I don't know whether any of these will give rise to documents that include a date and place of birth. Diana

Hi Mike: > On 8 Nov 2019, at 21:24, Mike Mallett via DEVON <[email protected]> wrote: > > I spotted this on a photography blog but there's a wealth of info about Devon and the family > > https://www.macfilos.com/2019/11/08/fuji-in-devon-and-cornwall-a-week-of-rain-and-six-centuries-of-grenvilles Thanks for posting this. I’ve added the link to the Grenville section of https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/Genealogies/G Cheers Brian Randell — School of Computing, Newcastle University, 1 Science Square, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE4 5TG EMAIL = [email protected] PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 URL = http://www.ncl.ac.uk/computing/people/profile/brianrandell.html