I would like to thank all the relies that I have had, Will sit down over weekend and work out which way to go. May start by writing to the DRO to see if they are holding to two birth records of the two sons. Thanks' again Jeff

I see on his marriage certificate on Findmypast no father is recorded. I think you will need to apply to Devon Registration Serviceshttps://new.devon.gov.uk/registrationservice/certificates/apply-for-a-copy-certificate Mike  

Hello I am new to this web page and have found this story very interesting and informative. I hope the original poser of the question finds what they are looking for, namely a birth certificate. Thank you all so much for all the info Thelma Ledgerton Sent from my iPad > On 5 Jun 2015, at 21:41, Paul Hockie via <devon@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Jeff, > > Remember that the original entry is made and kept at the local office. A > copy is sent to the GRO who in turn index it. This index is then transcribed > by Freereg, FMP etc. There is plenty of room for error. > > I have had a look at FMP which has 3 entries for William: > > Last name First name Born Died Event Record set > Location > RENDELL WILLIAM THOMAS 1862 - 1862 England & Wales > births 1837-2006 Tiverton, Devon, England > RENDELL WILLIAM T 1862 1942 1942 England & > Wales deaths 1837-2007 Tiverton, Devon, England > RENDELL WILLIAM THOMAS - - 1887 England & Wales > marriages 1837-2008 Tiverton, Devon, England > > The image confirms his birth as March quar; 1862 5b 463 > > I also had a look at the census. In 1871 he seems to be living in Uffculme > with his Grandmother Elizabeth and possible mother Mary Ann, unmarried. He > also has a brother Francis age 2. It also gives his place of birth as > Oakford. > Interestingly 1871 and 1881 have a William Rendell b 1864 in Tiverton, the > son of James and Mary Ann Rendell. A quick search indicates James married > Mary Ann Crossway in 1862. There is a possibility that MaryAnn and William > were staying with her mother in law at census time and were double recorded. > James and Mary Anne were married in October 1862 so when William was born he > would be illegitimate and no entry for a father on his birth certificate > (and if he kept it, on his wedding certificate. The birth certificate would > be for William Crossland. When his parents married he could apply for a > birth certificate as Rendell. He was probably always known as Rendell. > I am not sure how these transactions were put through the books but the > original entry would probably be deleted and a replacement or new entry > made. > > As a starter my recommendation would be to apply for copy entries for > William and Francis from the Devon Office. There entries should be properly > annotated. I would also try and find the christening entry for Oakford. Then > try and piece together the various Rendells of Tiverton. > > Cheers > > Paul > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Tim Treeby (Genealogy) via > Sent: 05 June 2015 19:12 > To: devon@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DEV] Birth Cert; > > As the Index looks to be a fairly modern typed version, rather than an > original version. > Possible that whoever typed up that Index page misread the original page > number, so that that birth is not actually on that page but a different one. > Not sure what GRO check if full Index Reference given. As possible they > don't do any further checking if full Ref given. But would need to check > with GRO. > > The other thing is you could try the Local registration service see > https://new.devon.gov.uk/registrationservice/certificates/apply-for-a-copy-c > ertificate > > Tim Treeby > DFHS 13926 > >> On 05/06/2015 06:19, Jeff Butler via wrote: >> Hello >> Just received a reply for UK Registrar General on my application for a > birth cert; of William Thomas Rendell born March quar; 1862 5b 463 telling > me there is no birth cert; How and Why would that be when the birth reg; > shows him, no miss spellings.At the moment we have no parents only > grandparents. >> Suggest next move. >> Jeff > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( > http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS > (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jeff, Remember that the original entry is made and kept at the local office. A copy is sent to the GRO who in turn index it. This index is then transcribed by Freereg, FMP etc. There is plenty of room for error. I have had a look at FMP which has 3 entries for William: Last name First name Born Died Event Record set Location RENDELL WILLIAM THOMAS 1862 - 1862 England & Wales births 1837-2006 Tiverton, Devon, England RENDELL WILLIAM T 1862 1942 1942 England & Wales deaths 1837-2007 Tiverton, Devon, England RENDELL WILLIAM THOMAS - - 1887 England & Wales marriages 1837-2008 Tiverton, Devon, England The image confirms his birth as March quar; 1862 5b 463 I also had a look at the census. In 1871 he seems to be living in Uffculme with his Grandmother Elizabeth and possible mother Mary Ann, unmarried. He also has a brother Francis age 2. It also gives his place of birth as Oakford. Interestingly 1871 and 1881 have a William Rendell b 1864 in Tiverton, the son of James and Mary Ann Rendell. A quick search indicates James married Mary Ann Crossway in 1862. There is a possibility that MaryAnn and William were staying with her mother in law at census time and were double recorded. James and Mary Anne were married in October 1862 so when William was born he would be illegitimate and no entry for a father on his birth certificate (and if he kept it, on his wedding certificate. The birth certificate would be for William Crossland. When his parents married he could apply for a birth certificate as Rendell. He was probably always known as Rendell. I am not sure how these transactions were put through the books but the original entry would probably be deleted and a replacement or new entry made. As a starter my recommendation would be to apply for copy entries for William and Francis from the Devon Office. There entries should be properly annotated. I would also try and find the christening entry for Oakford. Then try and piece together the various Rendells of Tiverton. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tim Treeby (Genealogy) via Sent: 05 June 2015 19:12 To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] Birth Cert; As the Index looks to be a fairly modern typed version, rather than an original version. Possible that whoever typed up that Index page misread the original page number, so that that birth is not actually on that page but a different one. Not sure what GRO check if full Index Reference given. As possible they don't do any further checking if full Ref given. But would need to check with GRO. The other thing is you could try the Local registration service see https://new.devon.gov.uk/registrationservice/certificates/apply-for-a-copy-c ertificate Tim Treeby DFHS 13926 On 05/06/2015 06:19, Jeff Butler via wrote: > Hello > Just received a reply for UK Registrar General on my application for a birth cert; of William Thomas Rendell born March quar; 1862 5b 463 telling me there is no birth cert; How and Why would that be when the birth reg; shows him, no miss spellings.At the moment we have no parents only grandparents. > Suggest next move. > Jeff > ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In Devon, you now can't apply to the local office, you have to go through the link in Tim Treeby's response. Terry On 05/06/2015 19:02, Mike Fisher via wrote: > Apply to the Tiverton Registry Office. > I applied for a birth certificate from my local Register Office and received the birth certificate which was registered in the year after the birth took places as the informant of the birth in November had within the six weeks allowed had changed the date of the birth but it appeared in the GRO index for the following year. A "cousin" who applied for a certificate via the GRO index for the correct year disputed the date with me until I sent him a copy of my certificate. > More recently I was researching a godchild's wife ( born in the 1990,s) and could not find a birth in the correct year but one 4 years later. I then found her parents marriage just before that date and the registration of her newly born sister in the same year as her registration. I then found her correct birth in the correct year registered in her mother's surname. It is possible to make a bastard birth legal by re-registering it after marriage of the parents. > Mike in sunny Droitwich > > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Terry Yes I sent what freeebdm had William Thomas Rendell 5b 463 Tiverton. Had a look at all births for that quarter not one William Thomas . On his marriage cert; his fathers name is blank. His grandmother Elizabeth Rendell nee Burnett had two daughters Mary Ann and Elizabeth which makes me think it may be one of them. Jeff Why is it that all devon@rootsweb mail that I get go's straight into my junk email box

As the Index looks to be a fairly modern typed version, rather than an original version. Possible that whoever typed up that Index page misread the original page number, so that that birth is not actually on that page but a different one. Not sure what GRO check if full Index Reference given. As possible they don't do any further checking if full Ref given. But would need to check with GRO. The other thing is you could try the Local registration service see https://new.devon.gov.uk/registrationservice/certificates/apply-for-a-copy-certificate Tim Treeby DFHS 13926 On 05/06/2015 06:19, Jeff Butler via wrote: > Hello > Just received a reply for UK Registrar General on my application for a birth cert; of William Thomas Rendell born March quar; 1862 5b 463 telling me there is no birth cert; How and Why would that be when the birth reg; shows him, no miss spellings.At the moment we have no parents only grandparents. > Suggest next move. > Jeff >

On 5 Jun 2015 at 7:09, Sher Leetooze via wrote: > Did you ask for a birth certificate or a birth registration? I don't > believe there were certificates issued that early. They started > later. Try again and ask for a copy of the registration. Often, one word in > a request makes all the difference. Isn't if funny how two nations, joined by > a common ancestry are separated by a common language!!! Sher Registration in England and Wales began in 1837, and certificates arte available from that year. -- Keep well, Steve & Val Hayes Blog: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/famhist1.htm E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk Phone: 073-759-0353 (cell) 012-333-6727 (landline)

Another thing to consider is that if a person is registered in the 1st Qtr he might have been born in the last Qtr of the previous year. Edna - Ottawa

Apply to the Tiverton Registry Office. I applied for a birth certificate from my local Register Office and received the birth certificate which was registered in the year after the birth took places as the informant of the birth in November had within the six weeks allowed had changed the date of the birth but it appeared in the GRO index for the following year. A "cousin" who applied for a certificate via the GRO index for the correct year disputed the date with me until I sent him a copy of my certificate. More recently I was researching a godchild's wife ( born in the 1990,s) and could not find a birth in the correct year but one 4 years later. I then found her parents marriage just before that date and the registration of her newly born sister in the same year as her registration. I then found her correct birth in the correct year registered in her mother's surname. It is possible to make a bastard birth legal by re-registering it after marriage of the parents. Mike in sunny Droitwich

Hi Jeffit depends on the extra information you put on the application form. For instance if you put mother's maiden or place of birth and it didn't match GRO wouldn't send that certificate. Less information is often best.If you just asked for William Thomas Rendell born March quar; 1862 5b 463 and you're sure of the references then you should get what you asked for.Cheers, Luned   Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 15:19:05 +1000 From: "Jeff Butler" Subject: [DEV] Birth Cert; To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <3D4E078963B54FECA016E8AC4B430671@ButlerComp> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Just received a reply for UK Registrar General on my application for a birth cert; of William Thomas Rendell born March quar; 1862 5b 463 telling me there  is no birth cert; How and Why would that be when the birth reg; shows him, no miss spellings.At the moment we have no parents only grandparents. Suggest next move. Jeff

Hello Just received a reply for UK Registrar General on my application for a birth cert; of William Thomas Rendell born March quar; 1862 5b 463 telling me there is no birth cert; How and Why would that be when the birth reg; shows him, no miss spellings.At the moment we have no parents only grandparents. Suggest next move. Jeff

Hi Jeff, did you include Tiverton as the registration district? Terry On 05/06/2015 06:19, Jeff Butler via wrote: > Hello > Just received a reply for UK Registrar General on my application for a birth cert; of William Thomas Rendell born March quar; 1862 5b 463 telling me there is no birth cert; How and Why would that be when the birth reg; shows him, no miss spellings.At the moment we have no parents only grandparents. > Suggest next move. > Jeff > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

William Thomas Rendell's birth was registered in 1st Qtr 1862 Tiverton: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:26BT-3TL & Noticed a death in death registration: William T. Rendell, 80 years, 2nd Qtr 1942, 2b 669, Tiverton I used to send a £-cheque to Superintendant Registrar at DRO some years ago, with the details. Not sure if that is viable today. Happy Hunting, Edna - Ottawa, -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Butler via Sent: Friday, June 5, 2015 1:19 AM To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] Birth Cert; Hello Just received a reply for UK Registrar General on my application for a birth cert; of William Thomas Rendell born March quar; 1862 5b 463 telling me there is no birth cert; How and Why would that be when the birth reg; shows him, no miss spellings.At the moment we have no parents only grandparents. Suggest next move. Jeff

Hi Jeff, Sorry, I sent the previous message too early. The best people to ask will be the GRO. They do have an email form for queries about an order: https://eforms.homeoffice.gov.uk/outreach/Certificate_Service.ofml ----Original message---- >From : devon@rootsweb.com Date : 05/06/2015 - 06:19 (GMTST) To : devon@rootsweb.com Subject : [DEV] Birth Cert; Hello Just received a reply for UK Registrar General on my application for a birth cert; of William Thomas Rendell born March quar; 1862 5b 463 telling me there is no birth cert; How and Why would that be when the birth reg; shows him, no miss spellings.At the moment we have no parents only grandparents. Suggest next move. Jeff ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

----Original message---- >From : devon@rootsweb.com Date : 05/06/2015 - 06:19 (GMTST) To : devon@rootsweb.com Subject : [DEV] Birth Cert; Hello Just received a reply for UK Registrar General on my application for a birth cert; of William Thomas Rendell born March quar; 1862 5b 463 telling me there is no birth cert; How and Why would that be when the birth reg; shows him, no miss spellings.At the moment we have no parents only grandparents. Suggest next move. Jeff ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Jeff Check on freebmd again and use the same gro numbers to see if there is another person with the same forename - he's likely to be your one. It might be that he was registered 'twice'. I know it's happened in my case. I'm down twice - once under my mother's married name and once under my father's. My mum and her husband were estranged but she needed my father to register me before they took me off her husband's name. Needless to say only one birth cert is available. This might be the reason in your search. Happy hunting! Jane Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Jeff Butler via<mailto:devon@rootsweb.com> Sent: ‎05/‎06/‎2015 06:19 To: devon@rootsweb.com<mailto:devon@rootsweb.com> Subject: [DEV] Birth Cert; Hello Just received a reply for UK Registrar General on my application for a birth cert; of William Thomas Rendell born March quar; 1862 5b 463 telling me there is no birth cert; How and Why would that be when the birth reg; shows him, no miss spellings.At the moment we have no parents only grandparents. Suggest next move. Jeff ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jeff: Did you ask for a birth certificate or a birth registration? I don't believe there were certificates issued that early. They started later. Try again and ask for a copy of the registration. Often, one word in a request makes all the difference. Isn't if funny how two nations, joined by a common ancestry are separated by a common language!!! Sher At 03:19 PM 05/06/2015 +1000, Jeff Butler via wrote: >Hello >Just received a reply for UK Registrar General on my application for a >birth cert; of William Thomas Rendell born March quar; 1862 5b 463 telling >me there is no birth cert; How and Why would that be when the birth reg; >shows him, no miss spellings.At the moment we have no parents only >grandparents. >Suggest next move. >Jeff >------------------------------------------ >The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and >the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >List archive for Devon can be found at >http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message >Internal Virus Database is out of date. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/5704 - Release Date: 03/25/13 >19:45:00

It is possible that he was registered under a different surname - the mother's? His name may have been changed to his father's in which case the first registration would have been cancelled. There would still be an index record for the first one but not the second. I had a researcher who actually went to the record office and could not get a copy of the record because it had been cancelled. He had to search out the second name that had been given the child. I noticed on the birth index (on FMP) that there was a William Thomas Nickels registered in Tiverton in the June quarter 5b 449. There were also a long list of births of just William in Tiverton in 1862. The GRO will do a search for you (and return your fee if they do not find anything). Once signed in (https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp), if you just put down the year and no Index Reference Number (https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/app_select.asp) it will take you to a page where you can fill in other information about the child (https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/app_ew_birth_la.asp?APPLICATION_ID=5T6E7381A7I691C42E7ASIYUDV1YF76EELH). They still require a surname at birth but with the mother’s surname. Perhaps if you fill out the form with the Nickels surname for the child and Rendell for the mother that may help them find the right information. I don’t think they will send you a record that does not have the mother’s name on it. Wayne Shepheard Online Parish Clerk www.cornwood-opc.com/cornwood www.cornwood-opc.com/harford www.cornwood-opc.com/psmary www.cornwood-opc.com/psmaurice cornwood.opc@shaw.ca -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Butler via Sent: Friday, June 05, 2015 4:38 AM To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] Birth Cert; Hi Terry Yes I sent what freeebdm had William Thomas Rendell 5b 463 Tiverton. Had a look at all births for that quarter not one William Thomas . On his marriage cert; his fathers name is blank. His grandmother Elizabeth Rendell nee Burnett had two daughters Mary Ann and Elizabeth which makes me think it may be one of them. Jeff Why is it that all devon@rootsweb mail that I get go's straight into my junk email box ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Tim, I must go back through all the sites as I did not see one that said he married Amy KERNICK. But thanks for letting me know. Regards Bev Edmonds -------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Treeby (Genealogy)via" <devon@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2015 1:48 AM To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [DEV] Amy KERNICK of Dawlish c 1888 > Would say that probably yes Amy was the widow of Sidney Charles Edmonds. > Probate for Sidney Charles Edmonds says Admin granted to Amy Holman > (Wife of Frank Bowden Holman) this was the 29 Jan 1954. > Also one of the sites which gives Frank Holman details says he married > Amy Kernick. > > Although the only way to be absolutely 100% certain would be obviously > to buy the marriage cert. > > I wouldn't worry too much about the small amount of time between death > and marriage as I know it can happen, as my GreatGreatAunt did it. And > have the certs to prove it. > > 1st Husband died 30 Jan 1931 > Buried the 3 Feb 1931. > She remarries the 12th Feb 1931. > > Tim Treeby > . > On 02/06/2015 02:51, B. Edmonds via wrote: >> Morning, >> >> Would anyone on this List know anything about the below couples please ? >> Especially Amy after Sidney died. I cannot find a death for her, so >> figured >> she emigrated or re-married, which is my favoured scenio at the moment. >> >> Frank Bowden HOLMAN born 1884 in Dawlish married Amy EDMONDS in >> Southampton, Hampshire Dec ¼ 1953 >> >> Amy KERNICK c 1888 Dawlish married Sidney Charles EDMONDS at Dawlish in >> 1910 >> Sidney Charles EDMONDS died 31 Oct 1953 at Dawlish. >> >> Was Amy the widow of Sidney Charles EDMONDS? My theory is that she was >> the >> wife of Frank Bowden HOLMAN, because they all came from Dawlish but >> marrying >> so soon after Sidney died has me a wee bit worried. >> >> Regards >> Bev >> >> Quite a bit about Frank Bowden HOLMAN if you Google his name. >> >> Regards >> Bev >> > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message