Hi, I see you have a date and place for her marriage to Robert Smerdon in 1650 at Widecombe , does that give her surname or was her surname Smerdon before her marriage ? -----Original Message----- From: mike smith via Sent: Friday, June 26, 2015 10:15 AM To: Paul Hockie ; devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] Elizabeth Smerdon Thanks Paul. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hockie via" <devon@rootsweb.com> To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [DEV] Elizabeth Smerdon > Mike, > > The May Devon Family Historian has an article on 16th and 17th Century > Lists > and an offer of "lookups". The Protestation Return (1642) and Hearth Tax > (1674) are probably the most useful and will identify where there were > Smerdons and give a clue as to which parishes to search. > > Cheers > > Paul --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Thanks Paul. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hockie via" <devon@rootsweb.com> To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [DEV] Elizabeth Smerdon > Mike, > > The May Devon Family Historian has an article on 16th and 17th Century > Lists > and an offer of "lookups". The Protestation Return (1642) and Hearth Tax > (1674) are probably the most useful and will identify where there were > Smerdons and give a clue as to which parishes to search. > > Cheers > > Paul --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Mike, The May Devon Family Historian has an article on 16th and 17th Century Lists and an offer of "lookups". The Protestation Return (1642) and Hearth Tax (1674) are probably the most useful and will identify where there were Smerdons and give a clue as to which parishes to search. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of mike smith via Sent: 25 June 2015 13:02 To: DEVON@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] Elizabeth Smerdon Hello, I'm looking for the parents of Elizabeth Smerdon born circa 1630, possibly in Widecombe in the Moor. She married Robert Smerdon in St Pancras Widecombe itM on 19th December 1650. Robert was born Islington Devon in 1623. thanks in anticipation. Mike Smith --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, I'm looking for the parents of Elizabeth Smerdon born circa 1630, possibly in Widecombe in the Moor. She married Robert Smerdon in St Pancras Widecombe itM on 19th December 1650. Robert was born Islington Devon in 1623. thanks in anticipation. Mike Smith --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hello again, > > Thomas Edwards and Mary Cosgrave also baptised daughters at Clifton, > > Anna > > 1823, Maria Francisca in 1828 and Ludovica in 1836 and, > > if I have identified the family correctly in 1841, they had several > > other children. > > Thanks for this. I ordered the marriage of William Strachan and Mary Edwards on the priority service so that I would see it before > I went to Bristol next week, but it does not seem I need the verification so urgently now, because........ I thought I would post an update now that I have received the marriage certificate of William Strachan to Mary Edwards in 1849. The certificate gives Mary as the daughter of James Cosgrave, gent'n, deceased. This name coincides with the baptisms Joy and I found of the children of Thomas and Mary Edwards in Clifton near Bristol, including Teresa Edwards (who appears with the Strachans in the 1851 census). The census information gives Mrs Strachan's birthplace as Ireland, and "Cosgrave" coincides with the Irish marriage licence bond index. So thanks to all for the help, I feel I have made a lot of progress in the last week, though there are still some loose ends to tie up, which I will start doing when I visit Bristol and Exeter next week to find out more. Regards Peter

I have problem with this. Firstly I would want to see the local registrars entries to check that all the information cross-checks. BDM certificates show the date of birth, which does not change, unlike parish registers which are the date of baptism. Also my understanding is that birth certificates are only cancelled in the case of adoption, then a new registration is entered with the new name and parents but the same date of birth. For events like changing the father the entry is amended and a replacement certificate is issued and, presumably, "head office" is notified. A more usual reason for confusingly similar registrations is to cover illegitimacy with parents/siblings registering the child as their own. Such stuff are TV dramas made off. Does anybody know a registrar who can help? Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Martin Beavis via Sent: 23 June 2015 15:04 To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] Duplication of GRO Birth Registration There were a couple of comments during the recent Birth Cert thread about duplication of GRO birth registrations. I'm aware of a lady who has three such registrations over a period of 35 years, but she is still alive, so the names are changed and the dates are approximated. About 1910 Miss White married Mr Brown with whom she had at least three children between 1915 and 1920, but about 10 years later she had a daughter X by a travelling man Mr Green. That birth was recorded as surname Green, mother's name White, possibly notified by the mother (Mrs Brown) if the father (Mr Green) was away from home. Some 25 years later Mr Brown died whereupon his elderly widow Mrs Brown (nee White) very quickly married the elderly Mr Green, promptly followed not only by a second registration of the birth of X, again recorded as surname Green, mother's name White, but also by the marriage of X. I'm guessing the second registration, possibly notified by her father, was to legitimise X as the daughter of the same father named on her marriage certificate. Whether conveniently or coincidentally, that second registration occurred in the same year as a change of legislation regarding the statutory acknowledgement of parentage. About 10 years later Mrs Green (formerly Mrs Brown, nee White) died, followed by a third registration of the birth of her daughter X, again recorded as surname Green, mother's name White, soon after which administration was granted to her husband, the surviving Mr Green. Perhaps that third registration was required to establish X's inheritance under intestacy rules. This is not my family so I don't know about their private matters and have not seen the certificates and nor, for the avoidance of any doubt, is this about the Walton-Worthington couple whose late-life marriage recently featured on this list. I had previously thought an apparently duplicated birth record might that of be a second child following an infant death as frequently found in pre-1837 PRs but GRO duplications are evidently much more complicated. Martin Beavis ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Bev: This book is one of the many hundreds that Mike Steer has indexed for GENUKI/Devon - see: http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/DevonIndexes/Pole.html The introduction to the index indicates its availability in Google Books. (I’ve added an actual link direct to the book to make things even easier for readers.) Cheers Brian On 23 Jun 2015, at 04:10, B. Edmonds <beverley@yourisp.com.au> wrote: > Hi Brian and all, > > Not sure if this is on Genuki > > If you Google > > Fursdons of Fursdon, Devon > > you should get this. > https://www.google.co.uk/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22+Fursdons+of+Fursdon%2C+Devon+ > > Collections Towards a Description of the County of Devon: ... - Page 193 > > https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WF4OAAAAQAAJ > Sir William Pole - 1791 - ‎Read - ‎More editions > It came afterward to belonge unto ye Fursdons, of Fursdon, in this parish, & not longe sithens fold by Fursdon, unto Peter Carewe, of Bicklegh. FURSDON. Fursdon, in this parish, hath longe contynewed in the name of Fursdon. Walter de ... > > Regards > Bev -- School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 FAX = +44 191 208 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/brian.randell

There were a couple of comments during the recent Birth Cert thread about duplication of GRO birth registrations. I'm aware of a lady who has three such registrations over a period of 35 years, but she is still alive, so the names are changed and the dates are approximated. About 1910 Miss White married Mr Brown with whom she had at least three children between 1915 and 1920, but about 10 years later she had a daughter X by a travelling man Mr Green. That birth was recorded as surname Green, mother's name White, possibly notified by the mother (Mrs Brown) if the father (Mr Green) was away from home. Some 25 years later Mr Brown died whereupon his elderly widow Mrs Brown (nee White) very quickly married the elderly Mr Green, promptly followed not only by a second registration of the birth of X, again recorded as surname Green, mother's name White, but also by the marriage of X. I'm guessing the second registration, possibly notified by her father, was to legitimise X as the daughter of the same father named on her marriage certificate. Whether conveniently or coincidentally, that second registration occurred in the same year as a change of legislation regarding the statutory acknowledgement of parentage. About 10 years later Mrs Green (formerly Mrs Brown, nee White) died, followed by a third registration of the birth of her daughter X, again recorded as surname Green, mother's name White, soon after which administration was granted to her husband, the surviving Mr Green. Perhaps that third registration was required to establish X's inheritance under intestacy rules. This is not my family so I don't know about their private matters and have not seen the certificates and nor, for the avoidance of any doubt, is this about the Walton-Worthington couple whose late-life marriage recently featured on this list. I had previously thought an apparently duplicated birth record might that of be a second child following an infant death as frequently found in pre-1837 PRs but GRO duplications are evidently much more complicated. Martin Beavis

Hi Brian and all, Not sure if this is on Genuki If you Google Fursdons of Fursdon, Devon you should get this. https://www.google.co.uk/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22+Fursdons+of+Fursdon%2C+Devon+ Collections Towards a Description of the County of Devon: ... - Page 193 https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WF4OAAAAQAAJ Sir William Pole - 1791 - ‎Read - ‎More editions It came afterward to belonge unto ye Fursdons, of Fursdon, in this parish, & not longe sithens fold by Fursdon, unto Peter Carewe, of Bicklegh. FURSDON. Fursdon, in this parish, hath longe contynewed in the name of Fursdon. Walter de ... Regards Bev

There is just of interest a two page pedigree of Fursdon of Fursdon which starts from Walter Fursdon from the time of Henry III and trustee of Silverton Manor in 10 Edward 1 which extends up to 1860. I can supply a copy should anyone be interested. How accurate it is I don't know it wasn't my work. -----Original Message----- From: B. Edmonds via Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 4:10 AM To: Brian Randell ; DEVON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] Fursdon of Furdon, Devon Hi Brian and all, Not sure if this is on Genuki If you Google Fursdons of Fursdon, Devon you should get this. https://www.google.co.uk/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22+Fursdons+of+Fursdon%2C+Devon+ Collections Towards a Description of the County of Devon: ... - Page 193 https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WF4OAAAAQAAJ Sir William Pole - 1791 - ‎Read - ‎More editions It came afterward to belonge unto ye Fursdons, of Fursdon, in this parish, & not longe sithens fold by Fursdon, unto Peter Carewe, of Bicklegh. FURSDON. Fursdon, in this parish, hath longe contynewed in the name of Fursdon. Walter de ... Regards Bev ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If anybody is interested in the militia and other "volunteer" forces these National Archive guides are useful http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/armed-forces-1522 -1914.htm http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/army-auxiliary-17 69-1945.htm Note there were different types of volunteer forces and the way they operated varied. I the Napoleonic wars the were the home guard. By the 1830's, a period of political unrest, they were the riot police under the effective control of the local magistrate. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Bruce [mailto:abruce@madasafish.com] Sent: 22 June 2015 12:31 To: devon@rootsweb.com Cc: Paul Hockie Subject: Re: [DEV] WATERLOO Just a couple of points of clarification. Until the 1870s (I think), militia regiments were not part of the (Regular) Army and were raised by the Lord Lieutenant of the county, not by regiments of the (Regular) Army. That's why the ballot lists, and the lists of chosen militiamen *tend* to be with the county record offices. Nor were the militia regiments full time. The members would attend training but would be living in civilian life. Every so often, either for training camps or for garrison duty, etc., they would be called up / embodied and put into uniform. Records such as muster & pay lists of the regiments at that stage *tend* to have been passed over to the War Office, so ended up at Kew. Not sure where militia units would tend to serve - my local Cheshire units were found all over England and it must have occurred to people that if you were going to use militia to keep down the unruly mob, then it would be better not to have militiamen trying to intimidate their relatives. I have found that newspaper databases and Google are good sources of tracking down some of these embodiments as they often made their way into newspaper reports. Adrian B On 22/06/2015 11:19, Paul Hockie via wrote: > Each regiment was expected to raise a militia regiment. These acted as > the Home Guard, Territorial Army, National Guard etc. These were full > time regiments but usually based in their home county. ....

Just a couple of points of clarification. Until the 1870s (I think), militia regiments were not part of the (Regular) Army and were raised by the Lord Lieutenant of the county, not by regiments of the (Regular) Army. That's why the ballot lists, and the lists of chosen militiamen *tend* to be with the county record offices. Nor were the militia regiments full time. The members would attend training but would be living in civilian life. Every so often, either for training camps or for garrison duty, etc., they would be called up / embodied and put into uniform. Records such as muster & pay lists of the regiments at that stage *tend* to have been passed over to the War Office, so ended up at Kew. Not sure where militia units would tend to serve - my local Cheshire units were found all over England and it must have occurred to people that if you were going to use militia to keep down the unruly mob, then it would be better not to have militiamen trying to intimidate their relatives. I have found that newspaper databases and Google are good sources of tracking down some of these embodiments as they often made their way into newspaper reports. Adrian B On 22/06/2015 11:19, Paul Hockie via wrote: > Each regiment was expected to raise a militia regiment. These acted as the > Home Guard, Territorial Army, National Guard etc. These were full time > regiments but usually based in their home county. ....

Each regiment was expected to raise a militia regiment. These acted as the Home Guard, Territorial Army, National Guard etc. These were full time regiments but usually based in their home county. They were staffed by a short term type of conscription whereby a ballot was held of able bodied men. There was also a system of "substitution", whereby a lucky winner could pay someone to take their place. The substitute would receive a cash sum and, as can be seem from the document, provision is made for his wife and children. This is a financial transaction and does not imply any relationship between the parties. Any surviving records will be in the county archives. These can include ballot records and musters. Eventually regiments were increased to 2 or more regular regiments, one of which be on an overseas posting and the other at the home depot. Paul -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of elizgh via Sent: 22 June 2015 10:36 To: DEVON Subject: [DEV] WATERLOO Hi , doesn`t the word substitute refer to the military ? scrabbling in the dark here. I think I have seen in the militia lists a man`s name and the word substitute next to it , indicating that the original militiaman had paid someone to be in the militia in his place because of family circumstances whatever . 1803/5 and the army is pretty desperate for soldiers . --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi , doesn`t the word substitute refer to the military ? scrabbling in the dark here. I think I have seen in the militia lists a man`s name and the word substitute next to it , indicating that the original militiaman had paid someone to be in the militia in his place because of family circumstances whatever . 1803/5 and the army is pretty desperate for soldiers . --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

At this point in time there were no effective national newspapers. They did not really take off until later in the 19th century when the spread of the railways enabled overnight delivery. There was, however, a system of syndication that allowed stories to go "viral". If you search for Mary Strachan in the FMP newspaper collection or the British Library site you can see the story spreading across the UK, often word for word copies. The type of story that spread were "murder most horrid" and this type of "believe it or not". Stories were not always picked up by all local papers. Newcastle stories will suddenly appear in Plymouth because it was a quiet news day. Canada, Australia, South Africa etc. as colonies were full of ex pats anxious for news of the mother country and served by regular mail ships. There were similar systems in the US and other places. These eventually became formalized into Reuters and other press agencies. Paul -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marie McCulloch via Sent: 22 June 2015 00:44 To: elizgh; B. Edmonds; devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] DEV] Potential Waterloo ancestor from Devon It was and still is not unusual for interesting items to be published in other countries. I have a report of an interesting trial that occurred in Canada, the woman and her brother were both from Pennsylvania, USA but a copy of the report appeared in a South American paper. Another is an ancestor who's death and biographical information appeared in papers between England (various counties) and Scotland. Marie -----Original Message----- From: elizgh via Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 9:21 PM To: B. Edmonds ; devon@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] DEV] Potential Waterloo ancestor from Devon Hi Bev , now why on earth would it have appeared in SA ???? that is amazing !!! Aberdeen yes, Australia , why ??? with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It was and still is not unusual for interesting items to be published in other countries. I have a report of an interesting trial that occurred in Canada, the woman and her brother were both from Pennsylvania, USA but a copy of the report appeared in a South American paper. Another is an ancestor who's death and biographical information appeared in papers between England (various counties) and Scotland. Marie -----Original Message----- From: elizgh via Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 9:21 PM To: B. Edmonds ; devon@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] DEV] Potential Waterloo ancestor from Devon Hi Bev , now why on earth would it have appeared in SA ???? that is amazing !!! Aberdeen yes, Australia , why ??? with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Joy, > Peter, I found this document on the National Archives Discovery catalogue which refers to a John Kerslake of Silverton and John > Whiteway of Chudeigh which possibly reveals a link between Simon's stepfather and Chudleigh? Might be worth looking at the > document when you visit Exeter. > > Title: > John Kerslake of Silverton > Reference: 3009A-99/PO12/461-467 > > Description: Substitute for John Whiteway of Chudleigh, orders for maintenance of his wife and 2 children Once again you have struck gold! Many, many thanks. I think you have just put Exeter on my itinery for next week! Regards Peter

Hi Bev. I have looked on FMP and the only military reference I could find is the "Army of Reserve 1803" document about a Symon Cockran from Chudleigh. Peter, I found this document on the National Archives Discovery catalogue which refers to a John Kerslake of Silverton and John Whiteway of Chudeigh which possibly reveals a link between Simon's stepfather and Chudleigh? Might be worth looking at the document when you visit Exeter. Title: John Kerslake of Silverton Reference: 3009A-99/PO12/461-467 Description: Substitute for John Whiteway of Chudleigh, orders for maintenance of his wife and 2 children Date: 1807-1810 http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/0af95259-1bcd-46db-a27d-a7ec5d1da8f3 Regards, Joy ----Original message---- >From : beverley@yourisp.com.au Date : 20/06/2015 - 21:50 (GMTST) To : elizgh@btinternet.com Cc : joy.langdon@btopenworld.com Subject : Re: [DEV] Potential Waterloo ancestor from Devon Elizabeth & Joy Do you have FMP, there is Waterloo stuff on there? I have looked for Simon but cannot find him. Given you are helping this person I thought you might like to take a look at FMP. My hubby's ancestor was at Waterloo and I get their Newsletters. Bev Edmonds FMP . The Waterloo Medal roll, giving information on over 36,000 British troops . The Waterloo Roll Call, listing British officers present at Waterloo . British Army Service Records 1760-1915 . Peninsular Medal Roll 1793-1814 . British Nationals Armed Forces Deaths 1796-2005 --------------------------------------------------

Hi Bev , now why on earth would it have appeared in SA ???? that is amazing !!! Aberdeen yes, Australia , why ??? -----Original Message----- From: B. Edmonds via Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 10:04 PM To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] Potential Waterloo ancestor from Devon Morning The Border Watch Mount Gambier S.A. [Australia] Wednesday 26 September 1883 A Waterloo Heroine - Mrs. Mary STRACHAN. Commonly known as the " Female Heroine " of Water received her sixty-first annual pension on July 7. Mrs STRACHAN was present at Waterloo in person, where her first husband was killed. If Peter would like a copy of said cutting I can post it to him if he e-mails me. Regards Bev ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Morning The Border Watch Mount Gambier S.A. [Australia] Wednesday 26 September 1883 A Waterloo Heroine - Mrs. Mary STRACHAN. Commonly known as the " Female Heroine " of Water received her sixty-first annual pension on July 7. Mrs STRACHAN was present at Waterloo in person, where her first husband was killed. If Peter would like a copy of said cutting I can post it to him if he e-mails me. Regards Bev