51 Old Town Street, Plymouth: http://closedpubs.co.uk/devon/plymouth_rosecrown.html Joy ----Original message---- >From : devon@rootsweb.com Date : 11/07/2015 - 20:52 (GMTST) To : DEVON@rootsweb.com Cc : meeson.canberra@fsmail.net Subject : [DEV] Rose and Crown Hotel, Plymouth 1884 Trying to locate site of the above hotel in 1884. Thank you ... Diana ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Trying to locate site of the above hotel in 1884. Thank you ... Diana

Cn Mn Top must be captain of the main top. These captains were in charge of various parts of the ship and probably equivalent to todays' leading seaman. Not to be confused with the captain of the ship who was a commissioned officer or the captain of marines who was equivalent to a naval lieutenant. There is a useful crew list at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petty_officer Mike -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Bruce via Sent: 11 July 2015 19:37 To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] Meaning of Occupations These are guesstimates: "Mn Top" sounds like "Main Top", which, if I remember my Hornblower, would be somewhere round the top of the main mast - the captain(???) of the main top could be in charge of the crew dealing with sails up there. Difference between "Seaman" & "Mariner" - hm - I'd need to be convinced that there is any. Is there any context? Private Mariner - perhaps the difference between someone in the Royal and Merchant Navy????? With Private Mariner being the Merchant Navy????? Chief of Castle - The Forecastle (or Foc'sle) was originally the "bit at the front" - I have an idea that the Chief of the Foc'sle may have been a senior seaman (not an officer) in charge of the seamen bunking in there - probably most of the general seamen. OK - the above are guesstimates because no-one's yet answered... Please feel free to shoot me down with the correct answers!!! Adrian On 11/07/2015 16:51, Ellen Murray via wrote: > Have checked the web with no success so am hoping someone on the List can help me. > > Am looking at a Ship's crew list & interested in knowing what is:- > > Chief of Castle? > Difference between "Seaman" & "Mariner" > Private Mariner? > Cn Mn Top ? > > Ellen > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( > http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon > can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

These are guesstimates: "Mn Top" sounds like "Main Top", which, if I remember my Hornblower, would be somewhere round the top of the main mast - the captain(???) of the main top could be in charge of the crew dealing with sails up there. Difference between "Seaman" & "Mariner" - hm - I'd need to be convinced that there is any. Is there any context? Private Mariner - perhaps the difference between someone in the Royal and Merchant Navy????? With Private Mariner being the Merchant Navy????? Chief of Castle - The Forecastle (or Foc'sle) was originally the "bit at the front" - I have an idea that the Chief of the Foc'sle may have been a senior seaman (not an officer) in charge of the seamen bunking in there - probably most of the general seamen. OK - the above are guesstimates because no-one's yet answered... Please feel free to shoot me down with the correct answers!!! Adrian On 11/07/2015 16:51, Ellen Murray via wrote: > Have checked the web with no success so am hoping someone on the List can help me. > > Am looking at a Ship's crew list & interested in knowing what is:- > > Chief of Castle? > Difference between "Seaman" & "Mariner" > Private Mariner? > Cn Mn Top ? > > Ellen > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Have checked the web with no success so am hoping someone on the List can help me. Am looking at a Ship's crew list & interested in knowing what is:- Chief of Castle? Difference between "Seaman" & "Mariner" Private Mariner? Cn Mn Top ? Ellen

Morning all Not my family, found this when looking at something else. Thomas TYRELL [37], was indicted for bigamy in marrying Mary SYMONS, at Ferrington, Devon, in November last, his former wife Jane MATTHEWS, being then living. George HARRIS produced a copy of the register of the prisoner's marriage at Ferrington, North Devon, and also a copy of that of his previous marriage at Redruth- GUILTY- To be imprisoned for 12 calendar months. CORNWALL LENT ASSIZE . Royal Cornwall Gazette, Falmouth Packet & Plymouth Journal (Truro, England), Saturday, April 05, 1834 Regards Bev

Best source of maps for this can be found at http://maps.nls.uk/os/6inch-england-and-wales/index.html Terry On 09/07/2015 21:09, Paul Hockie via wrote: > Interesting. The enumerator seems a little inconsistent about his recording. > There should at least be a double line below the unoccupied house and Walter > Scoble. I had a look at the Dartmouth Inn. There is no unoccupied property > but no 7, Henry Collings has the "inhabited" crossed out. Did he die half > way thought the enumeration? > > The enumerators notes should give more detail but I have no idea where to > find them on FMP. Between google maps, modern ordnance survey maps and old > ordnance survey maps (Alan Godfrey or https://www.old-maps.co.uk/ plus a > trade directory it can be possible to work out the route. Browse FMP for > house names before and after and then try and identify them. > > Cheers > > Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of C SWEETLAND via > Sent: 09 July 2015 14:08 > To: Pamela Willcocks; devon@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DEV] VILLAGE INNS - BIRTHING OPTION > > On looking at the 1871 census I wouldn't assume that he was born at the Inn, > it appears to me that only schedule 25 lives at the inn and the entry above > the Scobles Is 1U, meaning an uninhabited dwelling, so Albert Inn is not > their address. > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( > http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS > (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Interesting. The enumerator seems a little inconsistent about his recording. There should at least be a double line below the unoccupied house and Walter Scoble. I had a look at the Dartmouth Inn. There is no unoccupied property but no 7, Henry Collings has the "inhabited" crossed out. Did he die half way thought the enumeration? The enumerators notes should give more detail but I have no idea where to find them on FMP. Between google maps, modern ordnance survey maps and old ordnance survey maps (Alan Godfrey or https://www.old-maps.co.uk/ plus a trade directory it can be possible to work out the route. Browse FMP for house names before and after and then try and identify them. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of C SWEETLAND via Sent: 09 July 2015 14:08 To: Pamela Willcocks; devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] VILLAGE INNS - BIRTHING OPTION On looking at the 1871 census I wouldn't assume that he was born at the Inn, it appears to me that only schedule 25 lives at the inn and the entry above the Scobles Is 1U, meaning an uninhabited dwelling, so Albert Inn is not their address. ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Carol. You have a good eye and I tend to agree with you, especially as the Innkeeper has a lodger. Further, I had seen a photo of Victoria & Albert Inn by Francis Frith and it appeared tiered with possibly three buildings. Still, my question pertained to birthing options as I have long noted infants of families residing at Inns all over the county on censuses. I shall scrutinize moreso in future! cheers, pamela From: C SWEETLAND [mailto:carolsweetland204@btinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2015 10:08 AM To: Pamela Willcocks; devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] VILLAGE INNS - BIRTHING OPTION On looking at the 1871 census I wouldn't assume that he was born at the Inn, it appears to me that only schedule 25 lives at the inn and the entry above the Scobles Is 1U, meaning an uninhabited dwelling, so Albert Inn is not their address. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On looking at the 1871 census I wouldn't assume that he was born at the Inn, it appears to me that only schedule 25 lives at the inn and the entry above the Scobles Is 1U, meaning an uninhabited dwelling, so Albert Inn is not their address.

Many thanks Paul for taking the time. I'm not bothering about the birth cert as this is only a branch of my family, but both bapt registers of Herman and his older brother show the Scoble residence as Waddeton (hamlet) which is where the Scoble parents settled and father died. This led me to wondering why they were at the Albert Inn. (Walter the woodman you mentioned was the daddy). cheers, pamela -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hockie via Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 12:21 PM To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] VILLAGE INNS - BIRTHING OPTION Pamela, A generalisation most births were where you were when labour started and this was usually at home, where the mother had been "confined" awaiting the birth. The other generally available alternative to home was being in the workhouse. In the bigger cities lying-in hospitals were starting to appear but these cost. With regard to your family. there are a number of households listed for the inn 25 John Daley and family Innkeeper 26 William Scaddding and family 27 Walter Scoble and family Woodman 28 Assorted residents 29 Frank Goldsworthy, wife and daughter 30 William Webber, wife and granddaughter This looks to me as if passing trade was not too good Stoke Gabriel and the landlord was letting out rooms for long term stays. Hermans brother, William was born in Stoke Gabriel 2 years earlier and his birth certificate may give the address. The Dartmouth Inn seems to have a similar arrangement. I have not come across this before but it would seem a sensible decision as much of the accommodation in the village would be tied to a farmer. In the modern world they would be holiday lets. Cheers Paul --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Pamela, A generalisation most births were where you were when labour started and this was usually at home, where the mother had been "confined" awaiting the birth. The other generally available alternative to home was being in the workhouse. In the bigger cities lying-in hospitals were starting to appear but these cost. With regard to your family. there are a number of households listed for the inn 25 John Daley and family Innkeeper 26 William Scaddding and family 27 Walter Scoble and family Woodman 28 Assorted residents 29 Frank Goldsworthy, wife and daughter 30 William Webber, wife and granddaughter This looks to me as if passing trade was not too good Stoke Gabriel and the landlord was letting out rooms for long term stays. Hermans brother, William was born in Stoke Gabriel 2 years earlier and his birth certificate may give the address. The Dartmouth Inn seems to have a similar arrangement. I have not come across this before but it would seem a sensible decision as much of the accommodation in the village would be tied to a farmer. In the modern world they would be holiday lets. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Pamela Willcocks via Sent: 08 July 2015 15:23 To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] VILLAGE INNS - BIRTHING OPTION Hi listers, This may be a wild question to ask but were village Inns ever used (i.e. purposely chosen) as a birthing option? There is some logic to it vis a vis better facilities, but I still ask as someone may know for sure. Two people on my PAWLEY tree were newborns in 1871. The census shows Herman Walter SCOBLE is one month. The family are residing at the Albert Inn in Stoke Gabriel. The other child, Mary Elizabeth MARTIN is 5 months and the family are living in Galmpton at the Dartmouth Inn. There doesn't appear to be any family connections to the Inns and the baptism register just gives the Village as abode. BTW, Herman and Mary grew up to marry each other in 1893. cheers, pamela --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi listers, This may be a wild question to ask but were village Inns ever used (i.e. purposely chosen) as a birthing option? There is some logic to it vis a vis better facilities, but I still ask as someone may know for sure. Two people on my PAWLEY tree were newborns in 1871. The census shows Herman Walter SCOBLE is one month. The family are residing at the Albert Inn in Stoke Gabriel. The other child, Mary Elizabeth MARTIN is 5 months and the family are living in Galmpton at the Dartmouth Inn. There doesn't appear to be any family connections to the Inns and the baptism register just gives the Village as abode. BTW, Herman and Mary grew up to marry each other in 1893. cheers, pamela --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hi Len It is not so much the LDS but its members that are causing problems. Although the LDS does not check members information and I believe they now do not put their records on to their web site but only parish extractions. Ancestry has the same problem with unchecked records as no doubt do other web sites. I would suggest that people use the information as a GUIDE ONLY as to where to look for verification of the information. If it is not in the parish record then the event most probably did not occur and other records should be consulted. I have just proved that one tree on Ancestry is completely false as they have not checked the census records which disproves the parentage. But unfortunately some people will not admit they are incorrect. So just double check all your information with sound research, certificates, census etc. Marie -----Original Message----- From: Len Heyward via Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 10:36 AM To: 'Terry Blackmore' ; devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] Guess work Hi Terry; Well said. I seem to remember the LDS, or its members, were criticized quite some years ago for engaging in the same practices. There are also indications that the same practice is not immune from the more modern 'professional' database organisations. Keep up the good work. Regards Len Heyward -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Terry Blackmore via Sent: Wednesday, 8 July 2015 3:55 AM To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] Guess work I notice that a lot of possible names have recently been banded about on DEVON-L with regard to whom People may be. Often or not there are several names involved. I trust that no one is adding this information to there pedigrees without first checking 100% the information given on any one individual is the correct information. For instance I can find hundreds of John Blackmores, but 99% of them are not related to me in any form. So please be aware that one is not entering people accidently who are not really related just because it looks right. Terry Blackmore O.P.C Sheldon, Devon. ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/

Hi Terry; Well said. I seem to remember the LDS, or its members, were criticized quite some years ago for engaging in the same practices. There are also indications that the same practice is not immune from the more modern 'professional' database organisations. Keep up the good work. Regards Len Heyward -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Terry Blackmore via Sent: Wednesday, 8 July 2015 3:55 AM To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] Guess work I notice that a lot of possible names have recently been banded about on DEVON-L with regard to whom People may be. Often or not there are several names involved. I trust that no one is adding this information to there pedigrees without first checking 100% the information given on any one individual is the correct information. For instance I can find hundreds of John Blackmores, but 99% of them are not related to me in any form. So please be aware that one is not entering people accidently who are not really related just because it looks right. Terry Blackmore O.P.C Sheldon, Devon. ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Adrian, Looking at the actual image for Samuel's baptism his mother clearly is written as Mary. The "y" is like other "y"s on the page and not at all like "g"s. Peter Hi Adrian, Ancestry has a bapt of a Samuel son of Samuel and Mary Moxsey in 1676 in Dunchideock . Ancestry also has the marriage of Samuel Moxsey and Margret Harford , 1669, also Dunchideock. Findmypast has a bapt of a Samuel Moxey , at Dunchideock son of Robert and Ann , in 1644. I would want to be sure that Marg a shortened version of Margaret, isn`t mistranscribed as Mary . None of the obvious resources seem to have a second marriage for Samuel or a burial for Margaret . Samuel MOXSEY was from Dunchideock when he married Margret LANFORD (?) in Dunchideock parish church on 29 June 1669. As yet I have only been able to trace the baptism of one of their children, Margret, on 18 September 1670. However, Mary, the daughter of Samuell and MARY, was baptised on 20 March 1679/80. I suspect that the two Samuells are one and the same which would mean that his first wife Margret died sometime between 18 September 1670 and 20 March 1679/80. Has anyone come acroos the burial of Margret MOXSEY during that time period, please? Adrian

On 8 Jul 2015 at 10:36, Len Heyward via wrote: > Well said. I seem to remember the LDS, or its members, were criticized > quite some years ago for engaging in the same practices. The LDS Church, through its FamilySearch database, has more precautions than most online family tree databases, and makes it possible to correct errors, which many of the others do not. And some of them seem to encourage errors, or to actually introduce them. For a while Ancestry.com had Mundia, which provided free access to its family tree database. It has since been abandoned. It encouraged me to save "profiles" of people I found in the database, but when I tried to do so, it insisted on adding to the family tree in an arbitrary place, which would have been wrong, and there seemed to be no easy way of undoing it. Ancestry.com also tends to change place names in uploaded Gedcoms. I once sent a Gedcom to a relative, who then uploaded it to Ancestry.com, and in one family every child was shown as being born not merely in a different town or country, but on different continents. I tried uploading a Gedcom to Geni.com, and it identified me as my ggg grandfather. I deleted it and tried again, and it identified me as my third cousin 5 times removed. I gave up. FamilySearch at least makes it possible to delete false relationships, so that it can gradually improve. Ancestry.com encourages people to copy false relationships to their trees, and many do, uncritically, and without making contact with the person whose tree they are copying from. This is not a Devon family, but the same principle applies. For more see here: http://wp.me/pfvXY-cA -- Keep well, Steve & Val Hayes Blog: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/famhist1.htm E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk Phone: 073-759-0353 (cell) 012-333-6727 (landline)

I notice that a lot of possible names have recently been banded about on DEVON-L with regard to whom People may be. Often or not there are several names involved. I trust that no one is adding this information to there pedigrees without first checking 100% the information given on any one individual is the correct information. For instance I can find hundreds of John Blackmores, but 99% of them are not related to me in any form. So please be aware that one is not entering people accidently who are not really related just because it looks right. Terry Blackmore O.P.C Sheldon, Devon.

Hi Adrian, Ancestry has a bapt of a Samuel son of Samuel and Mary Moxsey in 1676 in Dunchideock . Ancestry also has the marriage of Samuel Moxsey and Margret Harford , 1669, also Dunchideock. Findmypast has a bapt of a Samuel Moxey , at Dunchideock son of Robert and Ann , in 1644. I would want to be sure that Marg a shortened version of Margaret, isn`t mistranscribed as Mary . None of the obvious resources seem to have a second marriage for Samuel or a burial for Margaret . -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Parry via Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 11:16 AM To: Devon List Subject: [DEV] SAMUELL MOXSEY OF DUNCHIDEOCK Samuel MOXSEY was from Dunchideock when he married Margret LANFORD (?) in Dunchideock parish church on 29 June 1669. As yet I have only been able to trace the baptism of one of their children, Margret, on 18 September 1670. However, Mary, the daughter of Samuell and MARY, was baptised on 20 March 1679/80. I suspect that the two Samuells are one and the same which would mean that his first wife Margret died sometime between 18 September 1670 and 20 March 1679/80. Has anyone come acroos the burial of Margret MOXSEY during that time period, please? Adrian ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Samuel MOXSEY was from Dunchideock when he married Margret LANFORD (?) in Dunchideock parish church on 29 June 1669. As yet I have only been able to trace the baptism of one of their children, Margret, on 18 September 1670. However, Mary, the daughter of Samuell and MARY, was baptised on 20 March 1679/80. I suspect that the two Samuells are one and the same which would mean that his first wife Margret died sometime between 18 September 1670 and 20 March 1679/80. Has anyone come acroos the burial of Margret MOXSEY during that time period, please? Adrian