Hi Marie, Thank you very much for replying. I'm going to have to dig out my copy of Caleb Bryant and Sophia Matilda's marriage record to check her surname again - I have a copy from the parish records somewhere, but my filing is letting me down. I do have a copy of the Pallot's Index card where her name is clearly Coleridge and I'm positive the marriage register entry has the same. Where did you get the name CORBRIDGE? Yes, there was a sister Caroline. I had forgotten about her, and she could well be the source of the name on Bryant's death certificate. What really has me mystified are the circumstances of Bryant's birth, evidently several years before his purported parents married. I believe he was born in either 1815 or 16 - it tallies with the 1841 census (yes, this could be misleading) and also having to retire from the Melbourne Post Office (he was the Accountant) when he turned 60, in1875. But Caleb Bryant and Matilda didn't marry until 1819. Where was young Bryant born, and who was his mother??? Bryant emigrated to Australia in 1848, leading to my family. I suppose there must be quite a lot of his rellies still in England, and scattered around. Cheers, Robyn On 15/07/2015 10:43 AM, Marie McCulloch wrote: > Hi Robyn > > I was very interested in your information as I had Sophia Matilda's > surname as CORBRIDGE. > > I had no knowledge of Bryant WAYMOUTH but I do have their son > Frederick WAYMOUTH born 3 September 1824 and christened on > 7 October 1824 at Old St Pancras the same day as his brother > Henry WAYMOUTH who was born on 9 September 1822. > Frederick and died on 23 November 1884. Frederick married Lisca Gertrude > COLNAGHI on 28 October 1854. > > My interest is through the Colnaghi family. > > I noted that when Caleb and Sophia's daughter Caroline Matilda (Metilda) > was christened in 1820 that the father's name was given name as Bryant > and not Caleb. > > If Caroline was Bryant's sister it is possible that on his death > someone has > mistakenly thought his mother's name was also Caroline. > > As Bryant gave his age as 25 on the 1841 census he could actually have > been > as old as 29 years. > > Never believe anything you read in the papers especially the older > ones as > I have found they are so misleading. > > Regards > Marie > > > -----Original Message----- From: Robyn Waymouth via > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 9:42 AM > To: devon@rootsweb.com > Subject: [DEV] Birth of Bryant WAYMOUTH c.1816 > > Hi Folks, > > I can't find any formal record of Bryant WAYMOUTH's birth. I hunted for > this a few years ago and it's time to have another look, as we've just > had his grave restored here in Melbourne. Unfortunately the text is > almost worn away. > > *An old family document (known to have errors) says he was born 1 > January 1815, parents Caleb Bryant WAYMOUTH and Sophia Matilda nee > COLERIDGE. She is said to be the daughter of Colonel COLERIDGE and > niece of the Marquis of Anglesey. > > *The 1841 census says he was born 1816. > > *His Victorian death certificate says his mother was Caroline nee > COLERIDGE and that he was born in London. His first daughter is > Caroline Matilda and the name Caroline is used in the next two > generations, although never before. > > *Caleb Bryant WAYMOUTH and Sophia Matilda COLERIDGE married 10 November > 1819, St Giles in the Field, Middlesex, she as a spinster, he as a > bachelor. > > *Caleb BRYANT of Taunton Somerset was his maternal grandfather. I've > wondered if young Bryant was illegitimate, or adopted, but would he have > been given his grandfather's name? > > I've subscribed to Find My Past, but can find nothing there and have in > the past searched Ancestry. If anyone can suggest where else I might > look I'd be very grateful. The Waymouths are an Exeter family who were > moving to London around this time, so Bryant's birth could be in either > region. > > Regards, > > Robyn > Melbourne, Oz > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Robyn, It was the baptisms of Frederick & Henry. Sorry, no more detail than has already been posted. Peter -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Robyn Waymouth via Sent: 15 July 2015 3:54 PM To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] Birth of Bryant WAYMOUTH c.1816 Hello Peter, Thanks for your reply. Could you give me a little more detail? Is this Bryant's baptism? I have no idea where or when it was. Caleb Bryant would have been a gentleman, according to the ideas of the day. They were a wealthy family - Caleb Bryant was an underwriter at Lloyd's and his father had been a banker in Exeter. His brothers' houses in the West end of London (his has gone) would would be worth millions. Cheers, Robyn On 15/07/2015 4:21 PM, Peter via wrote: > Looking at the baptism register their abode was 'Walworth' and Caleb > Bryant WAYMOUTH's occupation looks like 'Gentleman'. > > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Marie McCulloch via > Sent: 15 July 2015 1:43 AM > To: Robyn Waymouth; devon@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DEV] Birth of Bryant WAYMOUTH c.1816 > > Hi Robyn > > I was very interested in your information as I had Sophia Matilda's > surname as CORBRIDGE. > > I had no knowledge of Bryant WAYMOUTH but I do have their son > Frederick WAYMOUTH born 3 September 1824 and christened on > 7 October 1824 at Old St Pancras the same day as his brother Henry > WAYMOUTH who was born on 9 September 1822. > Frederick and died on 23 November 1884. Frederick married Lisca > Gertrude COLNAGHI on 28 October 1854. > > My interest is through the Colnaghi family. > > I noted that when Caleb and Sophia's daughter Caroline Matilda > (Metilda) was christened in 1820 that the father's name was given name > as Bryant and not Caleb. > > If Caroline was Bryant's sister it is possible that on his death > someone has mistakenly thought his mother's name was also Caroline. > > As Bryant gave his age as 25 on the 1841 census he could actually have > been as old as 29 years. > > Never believe anything you read in the papers especially the older > ones as I have found they are so misleading. > > Regards > Marie > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robyn Waymouth via > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 9:42 AM > To: devon@rootsweb.com > Subject: [DEV] Birth of Bryant WAYMOUTH c.1816 > > Hi Folks, > > I can't find any formal record of Bryant WAYMOUTH's birth. I hunted > for this a few years ago and it's time to have another look, as we've > just had his grave restored here in Melbourne. Unfortunately the text > is almost worn away. > > *An old family document (known to have errors) says he was born 1 > January 1815, parents Caleb Bryant WAYMOUTH and Sophia Matilda nee > COLERIDGE. She is said to be the daughter of Colonel COLERIDGE and > niece of the Marquis of Anglesey. > > *The 1841 census says he was born 1816. > > *His Victorian death certificate says his mother was Caroline nee > COLERIDGE and that he was born in London. His first daughter is > Caroline Matilda and the name Caroline is used in the next two > generations, although never before. > > *Caleb Bryant WAYMOUTH and Sophia Matilda COLERIDGE married 10 > November 1819, St Giles in the Field, Middlesex, she as a spinster, he as a bachelor. > > *Caleb BRYANT of Taunton Somerset was his maternal grandfather. I've > wondered if young Bryant was illegitimate, or adopted, but would he > have been given his grandfather's name? > > I've subscribed to Find My Past, but can find nothing there and have > in the past searched Ancestry. If anyone can suggest where else I > might look I'd be very grateful. The Waymouths are an Exeter family > who were moving to London around this time, so Bryant's birth could be in either region. > > Regards, > > Robyn > Melbourne, Oz

Hi , I have written a long email about Bryant and Briant and so on and it has disappeared into the ether .......If he was born in 1816 then he predates his potential parents by 3 yrs , they were married in 1819 . However as you are quoting the 1841 census , the ages are inaccurate and could well be rounded up or down . Caleb and Sophia have children from 1820 their marriage being in 1819 but there are gaps . Caroline Matilda is 1820 but Henry and Frederick not until 1824 and Samuel 1826. There are a number of wills on Ancestry Henry himself , his widow Sarah from Bath 1825, Henry`s sister Mary and so on . Henry mentions in his will proved 1803 a son Briant who is probably underage and his legacy is left in trust . Caleb is in the Discovery National Archives concerned with properties in St Leonard`s Exeter also dated 1803 when Caleb is 22 yrs old it says . This ties in with the bapt in South St Baptist in 1783 . It might pay to read through all the relevant Waymouth and Coleridge wills for the period 1815-1830 Briant is a name in the family going back to 1803 so worth chasing all these people . -----Original Message----- From: Robyn Waymouth via Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 12:42 AM To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] Birth of Bryant WAYMOUTH c.1816 Hi Folks, I can't find any formal record of Bryant WAYMOUTH's birth. I hunted for this a few years ago and it's time to have another look, as we've just had his grave restored here in Melbourne. Unfortunately the text is almost worn away. *An old family document (known to have errors) says he was born 1 January 1815, parents Caleb Bryant WAYMOUTH and Sophia Matilda nee COLERIDGE. She is said to be the daughter of Colonel COLERIDGE and niece of the Marquis of Anglesey. *The 1841 census says he was born 1816. *His Victorian death certificate says his mother was Caroline nee COLERIDGE and that he was born in London. His first daughter is Caroline Matilda and the name Caroline is used in the next two generations, although never before. *Caleb Bryant WAYMOUTH and Sophia Matilda COLERIDGE married 10 November 1819, St Giles in the Field, Middlesex, she as a spinster, he as a bachelor. *Caleb BRYANT of Taunton Somerset was his maternal grandfather. I've wondered if young Bryant was illegitimate, or adopted, but would he have been given his grandfather's name? I've subscribed to Find My Past, but can find nothing there and have in the past searched Ancestry. If anyone can suggest where else I might look I'd be very grateful. The Waymouths are an Exeter family who were moving to London around this time, so Bryant's birth could be in either region. Regards, Robyn Melbourne, Oz ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Probably means he was like some of my ancestors listed as gentlemen, but were actually owners of property, such as farms, pubs, etc., from which they earned a living. -----Original Message----- From: Peter via Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 7:21 AM To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] Birth of Bryant WAYMOUTH c.1816 Looking at the baptism register their abode was 'Walworth' and Caleb Bryant WAYMOUTH's occupation looks like 'Gentleman'. Peter -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marie McCulloch via Sent: 15 July 2015 1:43 AM To: Robyn Waymouth; devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] Birth of Bryant WAYMOUTH c.1816 Hi Robyn I was very interested in your information as I had Sophia Matilda's surname as CORBRIDGE. I had no knowledge of Bryant WAYMOUTH but I do have their son Frederick WAYMOUTH born 3 September 1824 and christened on 7 October 1824 at Old St Pancras the same day as his brother Henry WAYMOUTH who was born on 9 September 1822. Frederick and died on 23 November 1884. Frederick married Lisca Gertrude COLNAGHI on 28 October 1854. My interest is through the Colnaghi family. I noted that when Caleb and Sophia's daughter Caroline Matilda (Metilda) was christened in 1820 that the father's name was given name as Bryant and not Caleb. If Caroline was Bryant's sister it is possible that on his death someone has mistakenly thought his mother's name was also Caroline. As Bryant gave his age as 25 on the 1841 census he could actually have been as old as 29 years. Never believe anything you read in the papers especially the older ones as I have found they are so misleading. Regards Marie -----Original Message----- From: Robyn Waymouth via Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 9:42 AM To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] Birth of Bryant WAYMOUTH c.1816 Hi Folks, I can't find any formal record of Bryant WAYMOUTH's birth. I hunted for this a few years ago and it's time to have another look, as we've just had his grave restored here in Melbourne. Unfortunately the text is almost worn away. *An old family document (known to have errors) says he was born 1 January 1815, parents Caleb Bryant WAYMOUTH and Sophia Matilda nee COLERIDGE. She is said to be the daughter of Colonel COLERIDGE and niece of the Marquis of Anglesey. *The 1841 census says he was born 1816. *His Victorian death certificate says his mother was Caroline nee COLERIDGE and that he was born in London. His first daughter is Caroline Matilda and the name Caroline is used in the next two generations, although never before. *Caleb Bryant WAYMOUTH and Sophia Matilda COLERIDGE married 10 November 1819, St Giles in the Field, Middlesex, she as a spinster, he as a bachelor. *Caleb BRYANT of Taunton Somerset was his maternal grandfather. I've wondered if young Bryant was illegitimate, or adopted, but would he have been given his grandfather's name? I've subscribed to Find My Past, but can find nothing there and have in the past searched Ancestry. If anyone can suggest where else I might look I'd be very grateful. The Waymouths are an Exeter family who were moving to London around this time, so Bryant's birth could be in either region. Regards, Robyn Melbourne, Oz ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Robyn I was very interested in your information as I had Sophia Matilda's surname as CORBRIDGE. I had no knowledge of Bryant WAYMOUTH but I do have their son Frederick WAYMOUTH born 3 September 1824 and christened on 7 October 1824 at Old St Pancras the same day as his brother Henry WAYMOUTH who was born on 9 September 1822. Frederick and died on 23 November 1884. Frederick married Lisca Gertrude COLNAGHI on 28 October 1854. My interest is through the Colnaghi family. I noted that when Caleb and Sophia's daughter Caroline Matilda (Metilda) was christened in 1820 that the father's name was given name as Bryant and not Caleb. If Caroline was Bryant's sister it is possible that on his death someone has mistakenly thought his mother's name was also Caroline. As Bryant gave his age as 25 on the 1841 census he could actually have been as old as 29 years. Never believe anything you read in the papers especially the older ones as I have found they are so misleading. Regards Marie -----Original Message----- From: Robyn Waymouth via Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 9:42 AM To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] Birth of Bryant WAYMOUTH c.1816 Hi Folks, I can't find any formal record of Bryant WAYMOUTH's birth. I hunted for this a few years ago and it's time to have another look, as we've just had his grave restored here in Melbourne. Unfortunately the text is almost worn away. *An old family document (known to have errors) says he was born 1 January 1815, parents Caleb Bryant WAYMOUTH and Sophia Matilda nee COLERIDGE. She is said to be the daughter of Colonel COLERIDGE and niece of the Marquis of Anglesey. *The 1841 census says he was born 1816. *His Victorian death certificate says his mother was Caroline nee COLERIDGE and that he was born in London. His first daughter is Caroline Matilda and the name Caroline is used in the next two generations, although never before. *Caleb Bryant WAYMOUTH and Sophia Matilda COLERIDGE married 10 November 1819, St Giles in the Field, Middlesex, she as a spinster, he as a bachelor. *Caleb BRYANT of Taunton Somerset was his maternal grandfather. I've wondered if young Bryant was illegitimate, or adopted, but would he have been given his grandfather's name? I've subscribed to Find My Past, but can find nothing there and have in the past searched Ancestry. If anyone can suggest where else I might look I'd be very grateful. The Waymouths are an Exeter family who were moving to London around this time, so Bryant's birth could be in either region. Regards, Robyn Melbourne, Oz ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Try contacting the Devon FHS for their Baptism indexes. They go back to 1813. On 15 July 2015 at 07:21, Peter via <devon@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Looking at the baptism register their abode was 'Walworth' and Caleb Bryant > WAYMOUTH's occupation looks like 'Gentleman'. > > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Marie McCulloch via > Sent: 15 July 2015 1:43 AM > To: Robyn Waymouth; devon@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DEV] Birth of Bryant WAYMOUTH c.1816 > > Hi Robyn > > I was very interested in your information as I had Sophia Matilda's surname > as CORBRIDGE. > > I had no knowledge of Bryant WAYMOUTH but I do have their son Frederick > WAYMOUTH born 3 September 1824 and christened on > 7 October 1824 at Old St Pancras the same day as his brother Henry WAYMOUTH > who was born on 9 September 1822. > Frederick and died on 23 November 1884. Frederick married Lisca Gertrude > COLNAGHI on 28 October 1854. > > My interest is through the Colnaghi family. > > I noted that when Caleb and Sophia's daughter Caroline Matilda (Metilda) > was > christened in 1820 that the father's name was given name as Bryant and not > Caleb. > > If Caroline was Bryant's sister it is possible that on his death someone > has > mistakenly thought his mother's name was also Caroline. > > As Bryant gave his age as 25 on the 1841 census he could actually have been > as old as 29 years. > > Never believe anything you read in the papers especially the older ones as > I > have found they are so misleading. > > Regards > Marie > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robyn Waymouth via > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 9:42 AM > To: devon@rootsweb.com > Subject: [DEV] Birth of Bryant WAYMOUTH c.1816 > > Hi Folks, > > I can't find any formal record of Bryant WAYMOUTH's birth. I hunted for > this a few years ago and it's time to have another look, as we've just had > his grave restored here in Melbourne. Unfortunately the text is almost worn > away. > > *An old family document (known to have errors) says he was born 1 January > 1815, parents Caleb Bryant WAYMOUTH and Sophia Matilda nee COLERIDGE. She > is said to be the daughter of Colonel COLERIDGE and niece of the Marquis of > Anglesey. > > *The 1841 census says he was born 1816. > > *His Victorian death certificate says his mother was Caroline nee COLERIDGE > and that he was born in London. His first daughter is Caroline Matilda and > the name Caroline is used in the next two generations, although never > before. > > *Caleb Bryant WAYMOUTH and Sophia Matilda COLERIDGE married 10 November > 1819, St Giles in the Field, Middlesex, she as a spinster, he as a > bachelor. > > *Caleb BRYANT of Taunton Somerset was his maternal grandfather. I've > wondered if young Bryant was illegitimate, or adopted, but would he have > been given his grandfather's name? > > I've subscribed to Find My Past, but can find nothing there and have in the > past searched Ancestry. If anyone can suggest where else I might look I'd > be very grateful. The Waymouths are an Exeter family who were moving to > London around this time, so Bryant's birth could be in either region. > > Regards, > > Robyn > Melbourne, Oz > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( > http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS > (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( > http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS > (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Folks, I can't find any formal record of Bryant WAYMOUTH's birth. I hunted for this a few years ago and it's time to have another look, as we've just had his grave restored here in Melbourne. Unfortunately the text is almost worn away. *An old family document (known to have errors) says he was born 1 January 1815, parents Caleb Bryant WAYMOUTH and Sophia Matilda nee COLERIDGE. She is said to be the daughter of Colonel COLERIDGE and niece of the Marquis of Anglesey. *The 1841 census says he was born 1816. *His Victorian death certificate says his mother was Caroline nee COLERIDGE and that he was born in London. His first daughter is Caroline Matilda and the name Caroline is used in the next two generations, although never before. *Caleb Bryant WAYMOUTH and Sophia Matilda COLERIDGE married 10 November 1819, St Giles in the Field, Middlesex, she as a spinster, he as a bachelor. *Caleb BRYANT of Taunton Somerset was his maternal grandfather. I've wondered if young Bryant was illegitimate, or adopted, but would he have been given his grandfather's name? I've subscribed to Find My Past, but can find nothing there and have in the past searched Ancestry. If anyone can suggest where else I might look I'd be very grateful. The Waymouths are an Exeter family who were moving to London around this time, so Bryant's birth could be in either region. Regards, Robyn Melbourne, Oz

Looking at the baptism register their abode was 'Walworth' and Caleb Bryant WAYMOUTH's occupation looks like 'Gentleman'. Peter -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marie McCulloch via Sent: 15 July 2015 1:43 AM To: Robyn Waymouth; devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] Birth of Bryant WAYMOUTH c.1816 Hi Robyn I was very interested in your information as I had Sophia Matilda's surname as CORBRIDGE. I had no knowledge of Bryant WAYMOUTH but I do have their son Frederick WAYMOUTH born 3 September 1824 and christened on 7 October 1824 at Old St Pancras the same day as his brother Henry WAYMOUTH who was born on 9 September 1822. Frederick and died on 23 November 1884. Frederick married Lisca Gertrude COLNAGHI on 28 October 1854. My interest is through the Colnaghi family. I noted that when Caleb and Sophia's daughter Caroline Matilda (Metilda) was christened in 1820 that the father's name was given name as Bryant and not Caleb. If Caroline was Bryant's sister it is possible that on his death someone has mistakenly thought his mother's name was also Caroline. As Bryant gave his age as 25 on the 1841 census he could actually have been as old as 29 years. Never believe anything you read in the papers especially the older ones as I have found they are so misleading. Regards Marie -----Original Message----- From: Robyn Waymouth via Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 9:42 AM To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] Birth of Bryant WAYMOUTH c.1816 Hi Folks, I can't find any formal record of Bryant WAYMOUTH's birth. I hunted for this a few years ago and it's time to have another look, as we've just had his grave restored here in Melbourne. Unfortunately the text is almost worn away. *An old family document (known to have errors) says he was born 1 January 1815, parents Caleb Bryant WAYMOUTH and Sophia Matilda nee COLERIDGE. She is said to be the daughter of Colonel COLERIDGE and niece of the Marquis of Anglesey. *The 1841 census says he was born 1816. *His Victorian death certificate says his mother was Caroline nee COLERIDGE and that he was born in London. His first daughter is Caroline Matilda and the name Caroline is used in the next two generations, although never before. *Caleb Bryant WAYMOUTH and Sophia Matilda COLERIDGE married 10 November 1819, St Giles in the Field, Middlesex, she as a spinster, he as a bachelor. *Caleb BRYANT of Taunton Somerset was his maternal grandfather. I've wondered if young Bryant was illegitimate, or adopted, but would he have been given his grandfather's name? I've subscribed to Find My Past, but can find nothing there and have in the past searched Ancestry. If anyone can suggest where else I might look I'd be very grateful. The Waymouths are an Exeter family who were moving to London around this time, so Bryant's birth could be in either region. Regards, Robyn Melbourne, Oz ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Not sure if this is correct. Merchant Navy sailors signed on for the voyage and I think still do. These voyages were trade based and often round trips. Although they signed on for the voyage most captains had a regular crew but did not want to pay them while the ship was in port and loading. The Royal Navy was different. They needed to maintain a fleet manned by skilled men and ready for action. You "joined" the Royal Navy and were assigned to a ship. Ships went out on "patrol" rather than voyage. Once on board ( and possibly pressed) you could end up spending years patrolling the Caribbean or on escort duty to Australia and without anchoring at a naval depot. Transfers between ships occurred post battle when surviving crew members were reallocated across the remainder of the fleet, particularly important if skills had been lost on some of the surviving ships. Another reason for transfer would be if the ship was laid up for major overhaul or had finished its useful life. This would often take place at the great naval dockyards, Chatham and Plymouth, where new ships were being build and needed a crew. Some were given shore jobs. My own ancestor, who was nearing the end of his career, ended up as a guard on a POW ship anchored in Plymouth. In 1858 the Royal Navy introduced a formal system of service and began keeping survive records rather than archiving he musters. I have noticed that Admiralty records refer to the rank of seaman but the parish registers to mariners. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of MM via Sent: 13 July 2015 22:21 To: 'Adrian Bruce'; devon@rootsweb.com; 'Ellen Murray' Subject: Re: [DEV] Meaning of Occupations I understand that the crew were employed for a voyage whereas officers and warrant officers were employed permanently by the Royal Navy. I am sure when there was a manning problem the crew weren't actually released at the end of the voyage. Seaman is actually a 'grade' in the Royal Navy but outside that seaman and mariner seem to be used for anyone of a nautical persuasion. Mike -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Bruce via Sent: 12 July 2015 17:12 To: Ellen Murray Cc: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] Meaning of Occupations It may be a distinction applicable only to that set of circumstances - what company (if any) operates the ship? I'm just wondering - if the ship is owned by a big company, like the East India Co., then the normal mariners might be permanently employed by the East India Co, but the Private mariners might have contracted just for one voyage? Trouble is - my guess would be that all sailors contracted voyage by voyage.... Adrian On 12/07/2015 16:52, Ellen Murray via wrote: > ... Am also bit confused over "private mariner", originally thought > perhaps the 2 Private Mariners were not part of the Crew but > Passengers ... ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I understand that the crew were employed for a voyage whereas officers and warrant officers were employed permanently by the Royal Navy. I am sure when there was a manning problem the crew weren't actually released at the end of the voyage. Seaman is actually a 'grade' in the Royal Navy but outside that seaman and mariner seem to be used for anyone of a nautical persuasion. Mike -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Bruce via Sent: 12 July 2015 17:12 To: Ellen Murray Cc: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] Meaning of Occupations It may be a distinction applicable only to that set of circumstances - what company (if any) operates the ship? I'm just wondering - if the ship is owned by a big company, like the East India Co., then the normal mariners might be permanently employed by the East India Co, but the Private mariners might have contracted just for one voyage? Trouble is - my guess would be that all sailors contracted voyage by voyage.... Adrian On 12/07/2015 16:52, Ellen Murray via wrote: > ... Am also bit confused over "private mariner", originally thought > perhaps the 2 Private Mariners were not part of the Crew but Passengers ... ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ellen - I'm sure Paul is right about your two "Private Mariners" being Privates in the Royal Marines. According to regulations in force around 1829, Marines could be either entered on the ship's books as "part complement" or as "supernumaries" but were supposed to be entered separately from Seamen in the Pay and Muster Books. They were soldiers, not seamen, and not expected to go aloft, but were responsible for maintaining security and discipline aboard ship. Marines were answerable to their own Officers who were themselves at all times under the Naval Officer of the Watch, so I wonder why there were only two Privates and would have expected also a Corporal and Sergeant of Marines to be listed. Those 1928 regulations are reproduced as Appendix 2 of this document: http://www.hakluyt.com/PDF/Campbell_Part3_Appendices.pdf I previously cited that several months ago regarding the recruitment and attestation of Marines, but went a bit off-topic about a Quartermaster Marine Sergeant commanding a detachment of six Marines aboard the Topsham-built HMS Terror during the 1839-43 Antarctic expeditions of James Clark Ross. That document accompanies the online publication of the Sergeant's very interesting daily diary, revealing an unusual duty for shooting seals to supplement the food ration and, perhaps more importantly, distributing the rum ration. Martin Beavis -----Original Message----- From: Paul Hockie via Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 7:18 PM To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] Meaning of Occupations I thought I would try a Google. Apart from Private Mariner VC, I found a number of references in wills. There are some in Kew but I also found references to mariners and private mariners in Devon Wills. I found a John Fouracres probate 1760 described as a Private Mariner of the "Forty Second Company of Mariners; quarters at Plymouth". This would indicate he was a Marine. There is a link given but it leads to an incomplete page on willtranscription.co.uk. Looking at my copy of Tracing your Ancestors in the National Archives, I get the impression that the Marines evolved rather that were formed. The title Royal Marines was not granted until 1804. I am not sure what list you are looking at. From the correspondence it would seem to be Royal Navy, in which case the National Archives should have the musters with his actual rank. My own naval ancestor was shown in the musters siring from ordinary seaman to able bodied to gunner. Pilots were usually managed by Trinity House and would not appear on the ships company. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Brad Rogers via Sent: 12 July 2015 18:13 To: Devon ML Subject: Re: [DEV] Meaning of Occupations On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 11:52:02 -0400 Ellen Murray via <devon@rootsweb.com> wrote: Hello Ellen, >Am also bit confused over "private mariner", originally thought perhaps >the 2 Private Mariners were not part of the Crew but Passengers Given that a mariner navigates ships (see my reply to Joy), a private mariner could have been what it now called a pilot - one who navigates vessels through particularly difficult waters. For example, when entering Liverpool docks, ships have a pilot on board. The pilot is, these days, employed by the Port Authority. In the past though, many would have been self-employed. Obviously, some were better than others, and a mistake could cost dear. At some point in history, (IDK when exactly) it was decided that regulating the pilots was an expedient measure in the remedy of such mishaps. Hence, in the past, they may have been termed 'private mariners'. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" To the ends of the earth, you look for sense in it No Time To Be 21 - The Adverts ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I thought I would try a Google. Apart from Private Mariner VC, I found a number of references in wills. There are some in Kew but I also found references to mariners and private mariners in Devon Wills. I found a John Fouracres probate 1760 described as a Private Mariner of the "Forty Second Company of Mariners; quarters at Plymouth". This would indicate he was a Marine. There is a link given but it leads to an incomplete page on willtranscription.co.uk. Looking at my copy of Tracing your Ancestors in the National Archives, I get the impression that the Marines evolved rather that were formed. The title Royal Marines was not granted until 1804. I am not sure what list you are looking at. From the correspondence it would seem to be Royal Navy, in which case the National Archives should have the musters with his actual rank. My own naval ancestor was shown in the musters siring from ordinary seaman to able bodied to gunner. Pilots were usually managed by Trinity House and would not appear on the ships company. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Brad Rogers via Sent: 12 July 2015 18:13 To: Devon ML Subject: Re: [DEV] Meaning of Occupations On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 11:52:02 -0400 Ellen Murray via <devon@rootsweb.com> wrote: Hello Ellen, >Am also bit confused over "private mariner", originally thought perhaps >the 2 Private Mariners were not part of the Crew but Passengers Given that a mariner navigates ships (see my reply to Joy), a private mariner could have been what it now called a pilot - one who navigates vessels through particularly difficult waters. For example, when entering Liverpool docks, ships have a pilot on board. The pilot is, these days, employed by the Port Authority. In the past though, many would have been self-employed. Obviously, some were better than others, and a mistake could cost dear. At some point in history, (IDK when exactly) it was decided that regulating the pilots was an expedient measure in the remedy of such mishaps. Hence, in the past, they may have been termed 'private mariners'. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" To the ends of the earth, you look for sense in it No Time To Be 21 - The Adverts ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 11:52:02 -0400 Ellen Murray via <devon@rootsweb.com> wrote: Hello Ellen, >Am also bit confused over "private mariner", originally thought perhaps >the 2 Private Mariners were not part of the Crew but Passengers Given that a mariner navigates ships (see my reply to Joy), a private mariner could have been what it now called a pilot - one who navigates vessels through particularly difficult waters. For example, when entering Liverpool docks, ships have a pilot on board. The pilot is, these days, employed by the Port Authority. In the past though, many would have been self-employed. Obviously, some were better than others, and a mistake could cost dear. At some point in history, (IDK when exactly) it was decided that regulating the pilots was an expedient measure in the remedy of such mishaps. Hence, in the past, they may have been termed 'private mariners'. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" To the ends of the earth, you look for sense in it No Time To Be 21 - The Adverts

It may be a distinction applicable only to that set of circumstances - what company (if any) operates the ship? I'm just wondering - if the ship is owned by a big company, like the East India Co., then the normal mariners might be permanently employed by the East India Co, but the Private mariners might have contracted just for one voyage? Trouble is - my guess would be that all sailors contracted voyage by voyage.... Adrian On 12/07/2015 16:52, Ellen Murray via wrote: > ... Am also bit confused over "private mariner", originally thought perhaps the 2 Private Mariners were not part of the Crew but Passengers > ...

On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 16:33:14 +0100 (BST) Joy Langdon via <devon@rootsweb.com> wrote: Hello Joy, >No idea what the distinction is between seaman and mariner (if any). By strict definitions, a mariner navigates, or assists in the navigation of, a ship. A seaman is a person skilled/trained in seamanship. In the navy, 'seaman' indicates a rating trained in seamanship, as opposed to electrical engineering, radar, gunnery, etc. I suspect that, by and large, the traditional ('correct') definition of mariner is disused. To non-naval types, the two terms are interchangeable, I'm sure. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" People stare like they've seen a ghost Titanic (My Over) Reaction - 999

This table of the Scales of Pay in the Royal Navy 1860 incudes: Chief Captain of the Forecastle (Chief Petty Officer) Captain of the Main Top (1st Cass Petty Officer) http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/RN/Pay_and_Condns/Pay_1860_Ratings.htm And here is an illustration of a Captain of the Main Top (1887) No idea what the distinction is between seaman and mariner (if any). My merchant marine ancestor was described as Seaman on the two census returns he is listed on but on another when he is away at sea his wife is described as Mariner's wife. Joy ----Original message---- >From : devon@rootsweb.com Date : 11/07/2015 - 16:51 (GMTST) To : devon@rootsweb.com Subject : [DEV] Meaning of Occupations Have checked the web with no success so am hoping someone on the List can help me. Am looking at a Ship's crew list & interested in knowing what is:- Chief of Castle? Difference between "Seaman" & "Mariner" Private Mariner? Cn Mn Top ? Ellen ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ellen, I would try the National Maritime Museum at Greenwich. http://www.rmg.co.uk/ The library/general enquiries: +44 (0)20 8312 6516 | library@rmg.co.uk Include the name of the ship and the date of muster/crew list. Some of these terms may be time/area/service specific. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Adams via Sent: 12 July 2015 08:25 To: DEVON@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] Naval terms Alternatively, try this link http://rmhh.co.uk/mariners.html Sent from my iPad ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Joy, you have cleared up the mystery "Chief of Castle" for me. Am also bit confused over "private mariner", originally thought perhaps the 2 Private Mariners were not part of the Crew but Passengers

Thank you Paul and David. Paul your suggestion re; time sensitive (1815) is likely spot on. Ellen

Alternatively, try this link http://rmhh.co.uk/mariners.html Sent from my iPad