Hello Fenella, As the LERWILL custodian (I'm registered with GOONS) I should have the data you want! :-) Hannah was the half-sister to my 3 x gt-grandfather and was baptised at Braunton in 1771. I'll send you a complete Gedcom of my side of the family to your personal e-mail address in the next couple of hours, assuming you have a family history program to take it. If not I can send you a descendancy chart. Cheers, John Researching... LERWILL/LERWELL (any), SKIDMORE Worcs, Staffs WHYBORN/WYBURN Somerset, Devon, Scotland, Birmingham APLIN Somerset & Birmingham, CASTLE Somerset & Bristol. My history pages: http://www.lerwill-life.org.uk/history/history.htm On 11/08/2015 13:18, Fenella Rook Smith via wrote: > Henry WATTS and Hannah LERWILL were married in Georgeham, Devon, on 4 March 1794. Henry Watts was baptised 1 Nov 1767, Georgeham, Devon, son of John Watts and Grace Deane. Henry died 1 Feb 1835, Georgeham,Devon, England. Does anyone have information about the family Henry's wife, Hannah LERWILL?Henry and Hannah's children were all baptised at Georgeham: Anne 1797 (died young?); George 1799 - 1884 (my 2xg-grandfather, married Mary Lewis in Ilfracombe in 1820); James 1801 - 1889 (went to Utah, USA); John 1803; Elizabeth 1806; Jane 1808; Sally 1811; Mary 1813; Anne 1818 - 1818. >

Henry WATTS and Hannah LERWILL were married in Georgeham, Devon, on 4 March 1794. Henry Watts was baptised 1 Nov 1767, Georgeham, Devon, son of John Watts and Grace Deane.  Henry died 1 Feb 1835, Georgeham,Devon, England. Does anyone have information about the family Henry's wife, Hannah LERWILL?Henry and Hannah's children were all baptised at Georgeham: Anne 1797 (died young?); George 1799 - 1884 (my 2xg-grandfather, married Mary Lewis in Ilfracombe in 1820); James 1801 - 1889 (went to Utah, USA);  John 1803;  Elizabeth 1806;  Jane 1808;  Sally 1811;  Mary 1813;  Anne 1818 - 1818.

This might not be Devon oriented but was wondering if the new update to Windows, being Windows 10, would be compatible to: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ancestry, FindMyPast, Legacy, etc. You may reply off-list. With appreciation, Edna - Ottawa

Hello there, My Devon LERWILL surname is now well researched (I have been conducting a one-name study on my surname over many years) , but it's not so long ago that I found that my maternal side also has Devon (and Somerset) roots! If anyone has any connection with the 18th c. east Devon WYBURN family (or families) in the Bampton/Oakford/Stoodleigh area I would be pleased to hear from them. Cheers, John Lerwill -- Researching... LERWILL/LERWELL (any) WHYBORN/WYBURN Somerset, Devon, Scotland, Birmingham APLIN Somerset, Birmingham and various SMITHs in Birmingham, Tamworth!

Hi Nancy: The way I have just investigated this was to use the standard trick of taking the given URL http://www.dartmouth-history.org.uk/dartmouth/gene/htm/100152_0.htm and progressively stripping off segments of the URL to see where what was left at each stage got me. In fact I got a succession of sever errors (which did not surprise me) until I got down to http://www.dartmouth-history.org.uk/ which is the dartmouth Archives Research Group’s home page. There you will find a link to “Links” which will get you to a listing of their Archives Categories - lots of stuff on Genealogy (Census Records, Marriages, Named Families, Miscellaneous, Baptisms and Burials) What I’ve regarded as their more important transcripts and indexes are listed in the relevant GENUKI/Devon pages - but if you find something that isn’t and should be please let me know, since it’s a while since I looked through their listings. Cheers Brian Randell On 10 Aug 2015, at 01:05, Nancy Frey via <devon@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Bev, > > Are there any other transcriptions other than Dittisham at this site? > > Nancy Frey > Windsor, ON > > > On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 5:12 PM, B. Edmonds via <devon@rootsweb.com> wrote: > >> http://www.dartmouth-history.org.uk/dartmouth/gene/htm/100152_0.htm >> >> Index first, then details of marriages in case no one knows of this page. >> >> Regards >> Bev >> > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 URL = http://www.ncl.ac.uk/computing/staff/profile/brian.randell

Bev, Are there any other transcriptions other than Dittisham at this site? Nancy Frey Windsor, ON On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 5:12 PM, B. Edmonds via <devon@rootsweb.com> wrote: > http://www.dartmouth-history.org.uk/dartmouth/gene/htm/100152_0.htm > > Index first, then details of marriages in case no one knows of this page. > > Regards > Bev >

http://www.dartmouth-history.org.uk/dartmouth/gene/htm/100152_0.htm Index first, then details of marriages in case no one knows of this page. Regards Bev

Thank you for that. I hadn't sent that page as haven't had time to do any research lately.. It's good to be reminded. Best wishes Jane Lucas > On 8 Aug 2015, at 22:12, B. Edmonds via <devon@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > http://www.dartmouth-history.org.uk/dartmouth/gene/htm/100152_0.htm > > Index first, then details of marriages in case no one knows of this page. > > Regards > Bev > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Martin: I couldn’t find a way of providing a link to just Devon slave-owners (the search facility was picking up addresses like Devonshire Place, London) so I’ve contented myself with adding a general link under Occupations to the main UK & Ireland page in GENUKI. Thanks Brian On 1 Aug 2015, at 23:25, Martin Beavis via <devon@rootsweb.com> wrote: > You may recently have seen Britain's Forgotten Slave-owners on BBC2 TV, > still available on iplayer for UK residents. Long after the abolition of > the transatlantic slave trade in 1807, slaves could still be traded in the > British Caribbean, or bequeathed and inherited along with the plantations on > which they worked, and many UK residents became owners of plantations and/or > slaves from which they derived an income. The two-part TV programme was > based on a UCL study of the considerable financial compensation paid to a > very large number of individuals for the loss of their "property" after > slave ownership was finally abolished in 1833. The compensation fund was > £20 million, said to be equivalent to at least £17 billion at today's > values, so major slave-owners received huge amounts of compensation. A > searchable database of all claimants (successful or otherwise) is available > on the Legacies of British Slave-ownership website at > https://www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/ > The genealogical relevance is that many of the claimants have biographical > details including BMDs, parents, spouse, children, education, business > dealings and details of wills, with links to similar notes about > non-claimant relatives, all supported by credible sources. I've previously > used this database to research the Bristol-Barbados sugar trade for a friend > who was quite shocked to discover the darker side of her respectable family. > > The search interface looks daunting but can be searched for just surname or > county or town. A search for Devon finds 177 claims (not all successful) > made by 84 named individuals with addresses in Devon, but a surname search > may find Devon people who lived elsewhere. See, for example, Rt. Hon. Rev. > Henry Phillpotts (Bishop of Exeter) who claimed for 665 enslaved, and the > widow Caroline Robley of Tiverton who claimed for 1651, neither of whom ever > left England. > > For those with a wider interest in this topic, the LBS team will be holding > workshops in the autumn, including one in Exeter on 14 November. They are > also pleased to receive further biographical information about these > slave-owning families. > > FAO Brian Randell: The notes for several Bristol merchants/ship-owners > mention a (non-claimant) Antony Gibbs who turns out to be an Exeter man, > father of William, who made their fortunes out of insuring the transatlantic > trade and importing guano - perhaps worth listing them on GENUKI Exeter? > http://www.exetermemories.co.uk/em/_people/gibbs-william.php > > Martin Beavis > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 URL = http://www.ncl.ac.uk/computing/staff/profile/brian.randell

Hi: A bumper crop this month! Jul 2015 No. of pages added/amended: 538 Major additions: • Devon - Correctional Institutions: Notices from Australian Newspapers (1819-1829) of Escaping Devon Prisoners - transcript • Devon - Military History: North Devon Yeomanry (1803) - transcript • Devon - Military History: East Devon Militia Deserters (1811) - transcript • Bovey Tracey: Bovey Tracey Parish Church: Devon, Diocese of Exeter (2006) - index • Braunton: Will of Richard Allen (1562) - transcript • Buckland Monachorum: Will of Elizabeth Drake (1632) - transcript • Chittlehampton: Census (1811) - transcript • Clannaborough: Will of the Reverend Freeman Freke (1809) - transcript • Dartmoor: Amid Devonia’s Alps, or Wanderings and Adventures on Dartmoor (1888) - index • Dartmouth: A short story of Thomas Newcomen (1904) - index • Dartmouth: Dartmouth Castle (1934) - index • East Budleigh: A Brief Memoir of Sir Walter Raleigh (1862) - index • East Ogwell: Will of Richard Reynell (1585) - transcript • Halwell: Will of Sampson Hele (1655) - transcript • Honiton: The History of Honiton (1868) - index • Ilfracombe: Guide to Ilfracombe, Lynton and Lynmouth, with Maps (1908) - index • Ilfracombe: Pearson's Gossipy Guide to Ilfracombe, Clovelly, Lynton and Lynmouth, Combmartin, Barnstaple, Westward Ho!, Bideford and the North Devon coast (1919) - index • Ilfracombe: Pictorial and descriptive guide to Ilfracombe, Barnstaple, Bideford, Woolacombe, and North-West Devon (1920) - index (two parts) • Kingsbridge: Kingsbridge and its Surroundings (1874) - index • Littleham (near Bideford): Contributors to a fund for relief of prisoners in Turkey (1670) - transcript • Littleham (near Bideford): Contributors to a fund for relief of Irish Protestants (1689) - transcript • Littleham (near Bideford): The Church Collections in Littleham (1670?) - transcript • Loddiswell: Will of the Reverend Thomas Freke (1834) - transcript • Musbury: Will of Amye Drake, Widow (1579) - transcript • Plymouth: The tourist's companion; being a guide to the towns of Plymouth, Plymouth-Dock, Stonehouse, Morice-town, Stoke, and their vicinities (1823) - index (2 pages) • Plympton St Maurice: Will of Garland Langworthy, Surgeon of Plymouth [sic] Earle (1779) - transcript • Poughill: Parish Land Tax (1714) - transcript • Sheepstor: Will of John Elford (1583) - transcript • Sheepstor: Will of Walter Ilford [Elford] (1648) - transcript • Southleigh: Will of William Drake (1625) - transcript • Southleigh: Will of Philip Drake (1655) - transcript • Stoke Damerel: Report of the inquiry instituted by the Right Reverend the Lord Bishop of Exeter as Visitor of the Orphan’s Home . . . at Morice Town, Devonport (1849) - index • Stockland: Willyam Manfield, Husbandman (1598) - transcript • Stockland: Austis [Anstis] Michell, Husbandman (1599) - transcript • Thurlestone: Will of William Adams (1777) - transcript • Weare Giffard: Will of Hugh Fortescue (1600) - transcript • Wolborough: Will of Sir Richard Reynell (1634) - transcript • Wolborough: Will of Lucie Brandon Reynell (1652) - transcript • Wolborough: Will of Anne Courtney or Courtnay (1711) - transcript • Yealmpton: Will of John Crocker (1521) - transcript Cheers Brian Randell -- School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 FAX = +44 191 208 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/brian.randell

You may recently have seen Britain's Forgotten Slave-owners on BBC2 TV, still available on iplayer for UK residents. Long after the abolition of the transatlantic slave trade in 1807, slaves could still be traded in the British Caribbean, or bequeathed and inherited along with the plantations on which they worked, and many UK residents became owners of plantations and/or slaves from which they derived an income. The two-part TV programme was based on a UCL study of the considerable financial compensation paid to a very large number of individuals for the loss of their "property" after slave ownership was finally abolished in 1833. The compensation fund was £20 million, said to be equivalent to at least £17 billion at today's values, so major slave-owners received huge amounts of compensation. A searchable database of all claimants (successful or otherwise) is available on the Legacies of British Slave-ownership website at https://www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/ The genealogical relevance is that many of the claimants have biographical details including BMDs, parents, spouse, children, education, business dealings and details of wills, with links to similar notes about non-claimant relatives, all supported by credible sources. I've previously used this database to research the Bristol-Barbados sugar trade for a friend who was quite shocked to discover the darker side of her respectable family. The search interface looks daunting but can be searched for just surname or county or town. A search for Devon finds 177 claims (not all successful) made by 84 named individuals with addresses in Devon, but a surname search may find Devon people who lived elsewhere. See, for example, Rt. Hon. Rev. Henry Phillpotts (Bishop of Exeter) who claimed for 665 enslaved, and the widow Caroline Robley of Tiverton who claimed for 1651, neither of whom ever left England. For those with a wider interest in this topic, the LBS team will be holding workshops in the autumn, including one in Exeter on 14 November. They are also pleased to receive further biographical information about these slave-owning families. FAO Brian Randell: The notes for several Bristol merchants/ship-owners mention a (non-claimant) Antony Gibbs who turns out to be an Exeter man, father of William, who made their fortunes out of insuring the transatlantic trade and importing guano - perhaps worth listing them on GENUKI Exeter? http://www.exetermemories.co.uk/em/_people/gibbs-william.php Martin Beavis

I've updated my pages concerning above with more newspaper transcriptions at http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/clyststgeorgemisc.html And Births Deaths and Marriages now on separate pages http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/bmdsclyststgeorge.html Hope they help Regards Jane main page for Clyst St George http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/clyststgeorge.html

Hello Linda, Angel Philip Hawson, Buckfastleigh DEV 1842 W co DHC-W 924 B/F4/86 Angel Philip Buckfastleigh DEV 1846 W co IRW A 252 You may possibly find that the Wills are one and the same - with the first date being the DHC copy indexed giving the date of writing the Will, and the second being the Inland Revenue copy indexed giving the date of probate. Regards Kathryn Adelaide -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Linda Martin via Sent: Wednesday, 29 July 2015 8:49 AM To: B. Edmonds Cc: <DEVON-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [DEV] Philip ANGEL Wills 1842 & 1845 Bev: The ages given in 1841 are correct - the image is quite clear. The will index for Philip in 1846 gives his residence as Hawton. I was happy that the will of 1842 was of Philip b 1766, living at Hawson, because of the address, but now maybe not! I was debating getting a copy of that one, so that might help. The more I dig the more I realize this is a huge family with many cousins having the same names!! Linda Sent from my iPad > On Jul 28, 2015, at 5:08 PM, B. Edmonds < <mailto:beverley@yourisp.com.au> beverley@yourisp.com.au> wrote: > > Hi List & Linda > > Philip ANGEL of Hawson, Buckfastleigh 1842 [according to Genuki Will > Index] > > I looked for a burial for the above Philip ANGEL in Buckfastleigh and the one I found is Philip ANGELL " infant " buried 20 August 1842. Is infant incorrect or is he an unbaptised baby? > > Linda, > Philip ANGEL, snr in 1841 as you say was at Hawson aged 75 [c 1766] Can someone check this age for me please? With his 3 sons Philip, Thomas & Samuel. > > The Philip ANGEL who is buried 1845 is aged 84 which ties in with the 1762 baptism. > > So who is the Philip ANGEL in the Will of 1842 if the above burial is 1842 is an infant? > > Why is all this so confusing?? > Bev Edmonds > ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( <http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/> http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS ( <http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/> http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at <http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to <mailto:DEVON-request@rootsweb.com> DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kathryn - that actually makes a lot of sense given the close spelling of the residence. I think I have to get the Will now!! Thank you, Linda Sent from my iPad > On Jul 28, 2015, at 11:49 PM, Kathryn Barnett <kathrynbarnett@bigpond.com> wrote: > > Hello Linda, > > Angel > Philip > Hawson, Buckfastleigh > DEV > > 1842 > W > co > > DHC-W > 924 B/F4/86 > > Angel > Philip > Buckfastleigh > DEV > > 1846 > W > co > > IRW > A 252 > > > You may possibly find that the Wills are one and the same - with the first date being the DHC copy indexed giving the date of writing the Will, and the second being the Inland Revenue copy indexed giving the date of probate. > > Regards > > Kathryn > Adelaide > > -----Original Message----- > From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Linda Martin via > Sent: Wednesday, 29 July 2015 8:49 AM > To: B. Edmonds > Cc: <DEVON-L@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [DEV] Philip ANGEL Wills 1842 & 1845 > > Bev: > > The ages given in 1841 are correct - the image is quite clear. > > The will index for Philip in 1846 gives his residence as Hawton. > > I was happy that the will of 1842 was of Philip b 1766, living at Hawson, because of the address, but now maybe not! > > I was debating getting a copy of that one, so that might help. > > The more I dig the more I realize this is a huge family with many cousins having the same names!! > > Linda > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Jul 28, 2015, at 5:08 PM, B. Edmonds <beverley@yourisp.com.au> wrote: > > > > Hi List & Linda > > > > Philip ANGEL of Hawson, Buckfastleigh 1842 [according to Genuki Will > > Index] > > > > I looked for a burial for the above Philip ANGEL in Buckfastleigh and the one I found is Philip ANGELL " infant " buried 20 August 1842. Is infant incorrect or is he an unbaptised baby? > > > > Linda, > > Philip ANGEL, snr in 1841 as you say was at Hawson aged 75 [c 1766] Can someone check this age for me please? With his 3 sons Philip, Thomas & Samuel. > > > > The Philip ANGEL who is buried 1845 is aged 84 which ties in with the 1762 baptism. > > > > So who is the Philip ANGEL in the Will of 1842 if the above burial is 1842 is an infant? > > > > Why is all this so confusing?? > > Bev Edmonds > > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi List & Linda Philip ANGEL of Hawson, Buckfastleigh 1842 [according to Genuki Will Index] I looked for a burial for the above Philip ANGEL in Buckfastleigh and the one I found is Philip ANGELL " infant " buried 20 August 1842. Is infant incorrect or is he an unbaptised baby? Linda, Philip ANGEL, snr in 1841 as you say was at Hawson aged 75 [c 1766] Can someone check this age for me please? With his 3 sons Philip, Thomas & Samuel. The Philip ANGEL who is buried 1845 is aged 84 which ties in with the 1762 baptism. So who is the Philip ANGEL in the Will of 1842 if the above burial is 1842 is an infant? Why is all this so confusing?? Bev Edmonds

Bev: The ages given in 1841 are correct - the image is quite clear. The will index for Philip in 1846 gives his residence as Hawton. I was happy that the will of 1842 was of Philip b 1766, living at Hawson, because of the address, but now maybe not! I was debating getting a copy of that one, so that might help. The more I dig the more I realize this is a huge family with many cousins having the same names!! Linda Sent from my iPad > On Jul 28, 2015, at 5:08 PM, B. Edmonds <beverley@yourisp.com.au> wrote: > > Hi List & Linda > > Philip ANGEL of Hawson, Buckfastleigh 1842 [according to Genuki Will Index] > > I looked for a burial for the above Philip ANGEL in Buckfastleigh and the one I found is Philip ANGELL " infant " buried 20 August 1842. Is infant incorrect or is he an unbaptised baby? > > Linda, > Philip ANGEL, snr in 1841 as you say was at Hawson aged 75 [c 1766] Can someone check this age for me please? With his 3 sons Philip, Thomas & Samuel. > > The Philip ANGEL who is buried 1845 is aged 84 which ties in with the 1762 baptism. > > So who is the Philip ANGEL in the Will of 1842 if the above burial is 1842 is an infant? > > Why is all this so confusing?? > Bev Edmonds >

A Philip ANGEL married Jane Churchyard at Totnes 27 Jul 1803 This "" could be "" the 1762 Philip On the marriage entry he says he is " of Stoke Gabriel " and that Jane is " otp ". It does not mean that Philip ANGEL was born at Stoke Gabriel. I have not checked further if there were other Philip ANGEL[L]'S though, maybe Linda could do all this is she wanted to. Bev > > And finally, back to Linda Martin's query, the other Philip ANGEL buried > Holne 2 May 1787, is probably the Philip ANGEL, son of Philip & Joan > ANGEL, > born 5 Mar 1762, baptised Holne 23 Mar 1762, there being no marriage of > any > other Philip ANGEL in the Holne registers which are transcribed at: > http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/Holne/Registers/index.html > > Why does everything always turn out so complicated? > > Martin Beavis > > -----Original Message----- > From: elizgh via > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 11:32 AM > To: B. Edmonds ; devon@rootsweb.com > Subject: [DEV] ANGEL PUZZLE > > Hi, Bev is right , the two entries are > clearly in two different books, but one is a copy of the other > ..........I > would suggest that neither are burials . A whole page of burials would > not > be so uniformly entered. Inevitably there would be older people buried in > this period . These all appear to be children. Is one volume the BTs > and > one the original register ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: B. Edmonds via > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:24 PM > To: LINDA MARTIN ; devon@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DEV] ANGEL PUZZLE > > Hi Linda > > Look at both images on FMP for the baptism and the Burial's. FMP have > stuffed up I think. They have mixed the burial image when it should be > baptisms. Both images, although different in there composition on the page > are identical when it comes to the names. > Like I said in my previous mail to you, the burial that you think that > took > place on 19th march 1787 is actually a baptism date. > > I will be very red faced if I have stuffed up. > Regards > Bev > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "LINDA MARTIN via" <devon@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 12:32 AM > To: <DEVON@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [DEV] ANGEL PUZZLE > >> Hi everyone: >> I am looking for a baptism of a Philip Angel born approx. 1785 he is the >> one shown in the 1841 census, age 56 with wife Susan, sons John, Samuel >> and daughter Susan, John Lane, Charles the Martyr, Plymouth. Transcript >> says Philip age 36, but the image is clearly 56. >> The only baptism I can find is 19 March, 1787, Buckfastleigh, s/o John >> and >> Mary, shown on Family Search and Findmypast. >> However there are the following burials:19 March 1787, Buckfastleigh, on >> Findmypast (Devon burials)2 May, 1787, Holne, on Findmypast (Devon >> burials) >> I'm happy Philip shown in 1841 is the one who marries Jenny Bourgoyne in >> 1816, Plymouth St. Andrew and has sons Thomas Bourgoyne 1818, Philip 1822 >> (my line), John 1824, Samuel 1827. Jenny/Jane dies in 1827 and Philip >> remarries Susan Williams in 1831, daughter Susan born 1833 - relates to >> the 1841 census above. >> 1841 census also shows my direct line Philip b 1822 apprenticed to John >> Nichols, farmer in Buckfastleigh - there is an apprentice in the register >> index supporting this - Philip, 12, s/o Philip and Jenny. >> 1851 shows Philip b 1822 at 3 John Lane, Charles the Martyr, with his >> family and his brothers Thomas and John. Stepmother Susan is at 1 John >> Lane, widow, with daughter Susan. >> I can find no other baptism for Philip Snr. other than the one in 1787, >> but the burials present a problem! >> Any thoughts, or suggestions? Another set of eyes sometimes sees >> something >> obvious!! >> Thanks, Linda >> ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

I think that Philip b. 1762 is shown at Hawson, Buckfastleigh in 1841 with possible sons Philip 1806, Thomas 1811 and Samuel 1811, give or take a few years for the 5 year round up/down in 1841.  There is a Thomas Angel baptised 1809, in Holne, parents Philip and Jane, which could tie in with the marriage below. Philip Jr, and Thomas(deaf) together in 1851, unmarried, in Scoriton. I have also found a Will abstract for Joan Angel who died 1809, on the National Archives site that mentions son Samuel and daughter Elizabeth. Thanks again, for helping me tie things together. Linda On Monday, July 27, 2015 5:27 PM, B. Edmonds via <devon@rootsweb.com> wrote: A Philip ANGEL married Jane Churchyard at Totnes 27 Jul 1803 This "" could be "" the 1762 Philip On the marriage entry he says he is " of Stoke Gabriel " and that Jane is " otp ". It does not mean that Philip ANGEL was born at Stoke Gabriel. I have not checked further if there were other Philip ANGEL[L]'S though, maybe Linda could do all this is she wanted to. Bev > > And finally, back to Linda Martin's query, the other Philip ANGEL buried > Holne 2 May 1787, is probably the Philip ANGEL, son of Philip & Joan > ANGEL, > born 5 Mar 1762, baptised Holne 23 Mar 1762, there being no marriage of > any > other Philip ANGEL in the Holne registers which are transcribed at: > http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/Holne/Registers/index.html > > Why does everything always turn out so complicated? > > Martin Beavis > > -----Original Message----- > From: elizgh via > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 11:32 AM > To: B. Edmonds ; devon@rootsweb.com > Subject: [DEV] ANGEL PUZZLE > >                                Hi,  Bev is right , the two entries are > clearly in two different books,  but one is a copy of the other > ..........I > would suggest that neither are burials .  A whole page of burials would > not > be so uniformly entered.  Inevitably there would be older people buried in > this period .  These all appear to be children.  Is one volume the BTs > and > one the original register ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: B. Edmonds via > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:24 PM > To: LINDA MARTIN ; devon@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DEV] ANGEL PUZZLE > > Hi Linda > > Look at both images on FMP for the baptism and the Burial's. FMP have > stuffed up I think. They have mixed the burial image when it should be > baptisms. Both images, although different in there composition on the page > are identical when it comes to the names. > Like I said in my previous mail to you, the burial that you think that > took > place on 19th march 1787 is actually a baptism date. > > I will be very red faced if I have stuffed up. > Regards > Bev > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "LINDA MARTIN via" <devon@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 12:32 AM > To: <DEVON@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [DEV] ANGEL PUZZLE > >> Hi everyone: >> I am looking for a baptism of a Philip Angel born approx. 1785 he is the >> one shown in the 1841 census, age 56 with wife Susan, sons John, Samuel >> and daughter Susan, John Lane, Charles the Martyr, Plymouth. Transcript >> says Philip age 36, but the image is clearly 56. >> The only baptism I can find is 19 March, 1787, Buckfastleigh, s/o John >> and >> Mary, shown on Family Search and Findmypast. >> However there are the following burials:19 March 1787, Buckfastleigh, on >> Findmypast (Devon burials)2 May, 1787, Holne, on Findmypast (Devon >> burials) >> I'm happy Philip shown in 1841 is the one who marries Jenny Bourgoyne in >> 1816, Plymouth St. Andrew and has sons Thomas Bourgoyne 1818, Philip 1822 >> (my line), John 1824, Samuel 1827. Jenny/Jane dies in 1827 and Philip >> remarries Susan Williams in 1831, daughter Susan born 1833 - relates to >> the 1841 census above. >> 1841 census also shows my direct line Philip b 1822 apprenticed to John >> Nichols, farmer in Buckfastleigh - there is an apprentice in the register >> index supporting this - Philip, 12, s/o Philip and Jenny. >> 1851 shows Philip b 1822 at 3 John Lane, Charles the Martyr, with his >> family and his brothers Thomas and John.  Stepmother Susan is at 1 John >> Lane, widow, with daughter Susan. >> I can find no other baptism for Philip Snr. other than the one in 1787, >> but the burials present a problem! >> Any thoughts, or suggestions? Another set of eyes sometimes sees >> something >> obvious!! >> Thanks, Linda >> ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes - the two images are evidently the register and the BT. GENUKI Buckfastleigh states: "Transcripts of the Parish Registers going back to 1602, and of the Bishops' Transcripts going back to 1597, are held in a special collection in the Westcountry Studies Library" and both FMP transcripts say "Archive South West Heritage Trust" and "© DC Thomson Family History", but it's not clear which is which. A quick check reveals that FMP has Devon Marriages, Devon Baptisms and Devon Burials (with images and DCT trancriptions) from 1602, and some earlier England Marriages (with FamilySearch transcriptions) from 1597. And for 1787 FMP has (from different sources) both Baptisms indexed as Baptisms and Baptisms indexed as Burials but no Burials indexed as Burials from either the Register or the BT. It would be tedious to determine which years (like 1787) have both Baptisms and Burials indexed as Burials. So if FMP were to fix that we would expect duplication of records in Devon Baptisms, linking to the different images, plus restoration of the missing Burials (which might or might not be duplicated). But it gets worse. If you broaden that search window, you will see two Devon Burials for Margaret ANGLE (ANGEL?) in 1782, both with the same Archive reference 3639A/PR/1/1, and both having the exact same image, except one of them is upside-down, both headed as Devon Burials Index, but if you scroll forward one page, then back one page, you still see the same image but now headed Devon Baptism Index, and if you scroll back one page you see Baptisms for 1642, followed by the vicar's notes about incomplete registers prior to 1672 (that's not my typo for 1782). And if you rotate those images through 180, you see earlier Baptisms inverted below later Burials. I can't quite get my head around it but suspect the bound volume begins with Baptisms at one end and Burials at the other. And, no, I did not investigate Marriages. So it is no wonder FMP have stuffed up (to use Bev's relatively polite Australian slang). I have reported the wrong Philip ANGEL baptism/burial to FMP as a "wrong image" but the message box only takes 250 characters: "This is a BAPTISM image indexed as BURIALS, for which there is another similar BAPTISM image indexed as BAPTISMS, presumably taken from PR and BT. This error is replicated in many other Buckfastleigh "BURIALS" which also need to be fixed." And I'm copying this to Colin Evans, OPC for Buckfastleigh. And finally, back to Linda Martin's query, the other Philip ANGEL buried Holne 2 May 1787, is probably the Philip ANGEL, son of Philip & Joan ANGEL, born 5 Mar 1762, baptised Holne 23 Mar 1762, there being no marriage of any other Philip ANGEL in the Holne registers which are transcribed at: http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/Holne/Registers/index.html Why does everything always turn out so complicated? Martin Beavis -----Original Message----- From: elizgh via Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 11:32 AM To: B. Edmonds ; devon@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] ANGEL PUZZLE Hi, Bev is right , the two entries are clearly in two different books, but one is a copy of the other ..........I would suggest that neither are burials . A whole page of burials would not be so uniformly entered. Inevitably there would be older people buried in this period . These all appear to be children. Is one volume the BTs and one the original register ? -----Original Message----- From: B. Edmonds via Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:24 PM To: LINDA MARTIN ; devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] ANGEL PUZZLE Hi Linda Look at both images on FMP for the baptism and the Burial's. FMP have stuffed up I think. They have mixed the burial image when it should be baptisms. Both images, although different in there composition on the page are identical when it comes to the names. Like I said in my previous mail to you, the burial that you think that took place on 19th march 1787 is actually a baptism date. I will be very red faced if I have stuffed up. Regards Bev -------------------------------------------------- From: "LINDA MARTIN via" <devon@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 12:32 AM To: <DEVON@rootsweb.com> Subject: [DEV] ANGEL PUZZLE > Hi everyone: > I am looking for a baptism of a Philip Angel born approx. 1785 he is the > one shown in the 1841 census, age 56 with wife Susan, sons John, Samuel > and daughter Susan, John Lane, Charles the Martyr, Plymouth. Transcript > says Philip age 36, but the image is clearly 56. > The only baptism I can find is 19 March, 1787, Buckfastleigh, s/o John and > Mary, shown on Family Search and Findmypast. > However there are the following burials:19 March 1787, Buckfastleigh, on > Findmypast (Devon burials)2 May, 1787, Holne, on Findmypast (Devon > burials) > I'm happy Philip shown in 1841 is the one who marries Jenny Bourgoyne in > 1816, Plymouth St. Andrew and has sons Thomas Bourgoyne 1818, Philip 1822 > (my line), John 1824, Samuel 1827. Jenny/Jane dies in 1827 and Philip > remarries Susan Williams in 1831, daughter Susan born 1833 - relates to > the 1841 census above. > 1841 census also shows my direct line Philip b 1822 apprenticed to John > Nichols, farmer in Buckfastleigh - there is an apprentice in the register > index supporting this - Philip, 12, s/o Philip and Jenny. > 1851 shows Philip b 1822 at 3 John Lane, Charles the Martyr, with his > family and his brothers Thomas and John. Stepmother Susan is at 1 John > Lane, widow, with daughter Susan. > I can find no other baptism for Philip Snr. other than the one in 1787, > but the burials present a problem! > Any thoughts, or suggestions? Another set of eyes sometimes sees something > obvious!! > Thanks, Linda > ------------------------------------------

I'm so glad it wasn't me!!  I had posted the original email regarding Philip Angel(l), so am happy that he is the right one for my family, s/o John and Mary. John being the s/o of Philip and Joan. Of note - both emails for Colin Evans on OPC bounce back and the person in charge has removed him as the contact. Thanks again, to everyone. Linda On Monday, July 27, 2015 11:59 AM, Martin Beavis via <devon@rootsweb.com> wrote: Yes - the two images are evidently the register and the BT.  GENUKI Buckfastleigh states: "Transcripts of the Parish Registers going back to 1602, and of the Bishops' Transcripts going back to 1597, are held in a special collection in the Westcountry Studies Library" and both FMP transcripts say "Archive South West Heritage Trust" and "© DC Thomson Family History", but it's not clear which is which. A quick check reveals that FMP has Devon Marriages, Devon Baptisms and Devon Burials (with images and DCT trancriptions) from 1602, and some earlier England Marriages (with FamilySearch transcriptions) from 1597.  And for 1787 FMP has (from different sources) both Baptisms indexed as Baptisms and Baptisms indexed as Burials but no Burials indexed as Burials from either the Register or the BT.  It would be tedious to determine which years (like 1787) have both Baptisms and Burials indexed as Burials.  So if FMP were to fix that we would expect duplication of records in Devon Baptisms, linking to the different images, plus restoration of the missing Burials (which might or might not be duplicated). But it gets worse.  If you broaden that search window, you will see two Devon Burials for Margaret ANGLE (ANGEL?) in 1782, both with the same Archive reference 3639A/PR/1/1, and both having the exact same image, except one of them is upside-down, both headed as Devon Burials Index, but if you scroll forward one page, then back one page, you still see the same image but now headed Devon Baptism Index, and if you scroll back one page you see Baptisms for 1642, followed by the vicar's notes about incomplete registers prior to 1672 (that's not my typo for 1782).  And if you rotate those images through 180, you see earlier Baptisms inverted below later Burials.  I can't quite get my head around it but suspect the bound volume begins with Baptisms at one end and Burials at the other.  And, no, I did not investigate Marriages.  So it is no wonder FMP have stuffed up (to use Bev's relatively polite Australian slang). I have reported the wrong Philip ANGEL baptism/burial to FMP as a "wrong image" but the message box only takes 250 characters: "This is a BAPTISM image indexed as BURIALS, for which there is another similar BAPTISM image indexed as BAPTISMS, presumably taken from PR and BT. This error is replicated in many other Buckfastleigh "BURIALS" which also need to be fixed."  And I'm copying this to Colin Evans, OPC for Buckfastleigh. And finally, back to Linda Martin's query, the other Philip ANGEL buried Holne 2 May 1787, is probably the Philip ANGEL, son of Philip & Joan ANGEL, born 5 Mar 1762, baptised Holne 23 Mar 1762, there being no marriage of any other Philip ANGEL in the Holne registers which are transcribed at: http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/Holne/Registers/index.html Why does everything always turn out so complicated? Martin Beavis -----Original Message----- From: elizgh via Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 11:32 AM To: B. Edmonds ; devon@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] ANGEL PUZZLE                                 Hi,  Bev is right , the two entries are clearly in two different books,  but one is a copy of the other ..........I would suggest that neither are burials .  A whole page of burials would not be so uniformly entered.  Inevitably there would be older people buried in this period .  These all appear to be children.  Is one volume the BTs and one the original register ? -----Original Message----- From: B. Edmonds via Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:24 PM To: LINDA MARTIN ; devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] ANGEL PUZZLE Hi Linda Look at both images on FMP for the baptism and the Burial's. FMP have stuffed up I think. They have mixed the burial image when it should be baptisms. Both images, although different in there composition on the page are identical when it comes to the names. Like I said in my previous mail to you, the burial that you think that took place on 19th march 1787 is actually a baptism date. I will be very red faced if I have stuffed up. Regards Bev -------------------------------------------------- From: "LINDA MARTIN via" <devon@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 12:32 AM To: <DEVON@rootsweb.com> Subject: [DEV] ANGEL PUZZLE > Hi everyone: > I am looking for a baptism of a Philip Angel born approx. 1785 he is the > one shown in the 1841 census, age 56 with wife Susan, sons John, Samuel > and daughter Susan, John Lane, Charles the Martyr, Plymouth. Transcript > says Philip age 36, but the image is clearly 56. > The only baptism I can find is 19 March, 1787, Buckfastleigh, s/o John and > Mary, shown on Family Search and Findmypast. > However there are the following burials:19 March 1787, Buckfastleigh, on > Findmypast (Devon burials)2 May, 1787, Holne, on Findmypast (Devon > burials) > I'm happy Philip shown in 1841 is the one who marries Jenny Bourgoyne in > 1816, Plymouth St. Andrew and has sons Thomas Bourgoyne 1818, Philip 1822 > (my line), John 1824, Samuel 1827. Jenny/Jane dies in 1827 and Philip > remarries Susan Williams in 1831, daughter Susan born 1833 - relates to > the 1841 census above. > 1841 census also shows my direct line Philip b 1822 apprenticed to John > Nichols, farmer in Buckfastleigh - there is an apprentice in the register > index supporting this - Philip, 12, s/o Philip and Jenny. > 1851 shows Philip b 1822 at 3 John Lane, Charles the Martyr, with his > family and his brothers Thomas and John.  Stepmother Susan is at 1 John > Lane, widow, with daughter Susan. > I can find no other baptism for Philip Snr. other than the one in 1787, > but the burials present a problem! > Any thoughts, or suggestions? Another set of eyes sometimes sees something > obvious!! > Thanks, Linda > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message